NICE meetings for Feb. 2012 on major service adjustments/cuts

[FamousNYLover]

I made NICE Community Meeting Video Musical.

 

[Amtrak7]

Community Meetings

 

NICE Hosts Community Meetings on Proposed Schedule Changes and Additions

 

NICE BUS will host Community Meetings to discuss proposed service changes that are envisioned for early April 2012. A budget shortfall makes service changes necessary, although the changes are significantly less than those proposed by the MTA last year, involve no route cancellations, and are designed to impact the fewest possible passengers.

 

Since NICE bus began operating on January 1, there have been significant improvements, including service that is more reliable and on time. Our goal is to offer our customers the maximum amount of service with the funds that are available from fares, subsidies and other sources. Veolia is already operating NICE at a far lower cost than the MTA did, and has achieved significant savings, -- more than $35 million compared to MTA’s 2012 budget. We have achieved these savings through a variety of more efficient systems and processes, without noticeably affecting riders. On top of this, we will continue to work tirelessly to find more efficiencies.

 

Despite this, the system is experiencing a $7.3 million budget shortfall for 2012. As a result, more savings are needed to achieve the balanced budget required by the County. So, on April 8, we propose to introduce a re-designed bus system that will include some service reductions and reconfigurations, new express routes, as well as new, improved and restored service.

 

There will be no fare increase and no routes will be fully eliminated. And these changes of $7.3 million are a quarter of the $26 million in cuts that the MTA proposed last year, which would have eliminated over half the bus routes.

 

Our proposed system re-design is the result of a very careful analysis of how riders use the system. We rode every route and every stop, seven days a week, recording actual passenger usage and travel patterns. After a rigorous analysis, we focused on making the smartest changes that would impact the fewest passengers. Naturally, we focused on the routes that are least used by customers and are thus the most expensive to operate.

 

This sounds really interesting...complete service reconfigurations instead of cuts, and "new" service?

 

Details to come 2/22.

[checkmatechamp13]

Community Meetings

 

This sounds really interesting...complete service reconfigurations instead of cuts, and "new" service?

 

Details to come 2/22.

 

But the question is: Why didn't they do all of these changes as soon as they took over? :confused: I mean, they did implement the N22L and rerouted the N1. Maybe they're not allowed to do any major changes without a hearing, and those didn't qualify as major.

[Burrstone]

Community Meetings

 

 

 

This sounds really interesting...complete service reconfigurations instead of cuts, and "new" service?

 

Details to come 2/22.

 

Wow, sounds interesting, I can't wait to see what's proposed!

[Burrstone]

But the question is: Why didn't they do all of these changes as soon as they took over? :confused: I mean, they did implement the N22L and rerouted the N1. Maybe they're not allowed to do any major changes without a hearing, and those didn't qualify as major.

 

That's a good point. I wonder how much of it was because the change over and the new changes would have been too much to handle, smoothly, at the beginning.

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[N6 Limited]

Community Meetings

This sounds really interesting...complete service reconfigurations instead of cuts, and "new" service?

 

Details to come 2/22.

Wow, sounds interesting, I can't wait to see what's proposed

Same here. They also said "new express service" do they mean Limited routes?

 

But the question is: Why didn't they do all of these changes as soon as they took over? :confused: I mean, they did implement the N22L and rerouted the N1. Maybe they're not allowed to do any major changes without a hearing, and those didn't qualify as major.

That's a good point. I wonder how much of it was because the change over and the new changes would have been too much to handle, smoothly, at the beginning.

I think they wanted to see the current (inherited from the ) service by itself and themselves without too many modifications. I'd do the same!

 

 

I agree with KeystoneRegional, It's probably a combination of everything. They were doing a changeover so they couldn't really change to much and be able to handle it, as well as scaring people, they said there would be a smooth transitions and not many changes during the first few months.

 

Since the system is their's now they can do what they want. Now they can have more checkers, and really see how the system operates, see riders travel patterns, get bus driver's observations, conduct possible infomrmal passenger interviews.

 

Also, since they're having a hearing, it's probably necessary, and they couldn't have a hearing before they actually took over, or understand what the changes they could actually do or how it would affect anything.

 

That said, I think some routes are being reduced to rush hours only. Notice how they said no routes would be "fully eliminated".

 

There are a lot of hints in that announcement.:

So, on April 8, we propose to introduce a re-designed bus system that will include some service reductions and reconfigurations, new express routes, as well as new, improved and restored service.

 

Service reductions - We saw that coming. I wonder what though. I'm thinking reduced headways and rush hour only service.

Service reconfigurations- Interesting, I wonder what they have in mind. Maybe instead of the N80/N81 routes being shaped like a B, they'll swap routes midway for them to be shaped like an 8?

New Express routes - Perhaps N72 limited?

New service - I wonder if it's completely new routes, or just route extensions.

Improved and restored service - This could mean anything. Possibly restoring N2 trips to Jamaica, stuff like that. Probably nothing Major. What if they brought back the N3? LOL

 

Speaking of Limited routes, I remember people arguing that the N22L should run as a limited run route and stop at Roosevelt Field. I thought of something though from my recollections of riding the N22 and N24. The N22 is basically Limited already, it generally runs down Hillside Ave non stop anyway. The N22 is like the Limited version of the N24. The N24 would get stuck at stops waiting for vehicles to pass on Jericho Turnpike, it was kind of like riding a NYCT bus, utterly horrible. The N22 sails down Hillside Ave to/from Marcus Ave.

 

Anyway, how do you all think the riders at the meeting will react just based on the information from this notice?

 

I personally like Veolia's tactics! The methods just works!

What do you mean? Do you have examples?

[KeystoneRegional]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Ty24]

But the question is: Why didn't they do all of these changes as soon as they took over? :confused: I mean, they did implement the N22L and rerouted the N1. Maybe they're not allowed to do any major changes without a hearing, and those didn't qualify as major.

 

It was stated on the December 5th/12th hearings, that if Veolia gets the contract they are not allowed to make any cuts or big changes without having 2 public hearings and approval from this so called transit committee.

[N6 Limited]

It was stated on the December 5th/12th hearings, that if Veolia gets the contract they are not allowed to make any cuts or big changes without having 2 public hearings and approval from this so called transit committee.

 

I see that they get that requirement out of the way quick. 2 days in a row. IIRC the MTA had them one day per week on consecutive weeks, no?

[PinePower]

I heard a rumor from some bus driver that the N24 will run to Hicksville.

Some ideas could be:

N22L and N24 to Hicksville, N22 becomes Roosevelt Field - Jamaica only, via N22A routing

N27 becomes Roosevelt Field-Glen Cove, via Glen Cove Rd (no Roslyn Rd detour). Being the 16 already duplicates the N27, let the 16 handle the 27's crowds south of RF. On Sundays N16 runs, no N35.

N21 goes down Glen Cove Ave from Bryant, follows old N27 routing and goes to Locust Valley via Forest.

N80 and N81 N73/74. One of the pair runs rush hours only. N81 goes up S.Oyster Bay Rd to Woodbury Rd to service shopping centers. N80 would be rush hours only.

N78 rush hours only

N51 to Long beach via Loop Parkway and Lido Blvd (sort of like an express N15 for those traveling between Long beach and RF)

N19 every other bus ends at Sunrise Mall.

N35 could be shortened to NCC except rush hours to Westbury, as much as I need that route ridership is light except rush hours along Post Ave.

Rush hour N23 trips via West Shore Rd to serve the Industrial Complex the now eliminated N28 used to

N48 to Crossways/Woodbury via Jericho Turnpike weekdays only to serve office parks in Syosset

[User]

Information about the meetings has been posted on the site. I think we should expect cuts. Here we go.

 

Community Meetings

[Ty24]

Information about the meetings has been posted on the site. I think we should expect cuts. Here we go.

 

Community Meetings

 

We knew things were bound to change!

The plan was suppose to be "No service reductions/cuts,or fare hikes for 2012."

Expect more and more of these meetings!

2.6 million is not enough to run the LARGEST surburban bus company in america!

[Ty24]

I see that they get that requirement out of the way quick. 2 days in a row. IIRC the MTA had them one day per week on consecutive weeks, no?

 

The meetings are kind of pointless, because Veolia and Nassau are going to do what they want regardless, it's just to inform us what's going to happen and its nothing we can say that will change it bascially! These meeting are two meeting are set to close to each other.

[User]

When Long Island Bus held the hearings for the 2010 cuts, how exactly did the people save the N88 which was a proposed cut? Was that a time when the hearing actually listened to the people?

[FamousNYLover]

I hope they could implent N20 LTD or N20 Hicksvilles because that's hour wait especially on Weekend like N20 LTD making major stops including campuses.

[Marctalky1]

More express routes YES!!!!!! What about an Idea to Compete with MTA and have Mets Express busses? Charge say 5 50 like an express bus VIA LIE? No transfer at woodside and there in less then 20-30 mins.

[Burrstone]

I would like to see the N4 get express buses, one stop in every town along Merrick Rd...

[Burrstone]

Since they announced the possibility of express buses, and it is reported that someone driving a new MCI CNG commuter coach for LA stopped by Mitchell Field to say hi to friends and so that NICE execs could check out the new cng commuter coach. Putting these two coincidences together do you think NICE might get new mci cng commuter coaches in the future?

 

How much do you guys feel NICE should charge for express service with with these buses? Same as the city?

[N6 Limited]

I heard a rumor from some bus driver that the N24 will run to Hicksville.

Some ideas could be:

N22L and N24 to Hicksville, N22 becomes Roosevelt Field - Jamaica only, via N22A routing

N27 becomes Roosevelt Field-Glen Cove, via Glen Cove Rd (no Roslyn Rd detour). Being the 16 already duplicates the N27, let the 16 handle the 27's crowds south of RF. On Sundays N16 runs, no N35.

N21 goes down Glen Cove Ave from Bryant, follows old N27 routing and goes to Locust Valley via Forest.

N80 and N81 N73/74. One of the pair runs rush hours only. N81 goes up S.Oyster Bay Rd to Woodbury Rd to service shopping centers. N80 would be rush hours only.

N78 rush hours only

N51 to Long beach via Loop Parkway and Lido Blvd (sort of like an express N15 for those traveling between Long beach and RF)

N19 every other bus ends at Sunrise Mall.

N35 could be shortened to NCC except rush hours to Westbury, as much as I need that route ridership is light except rush hours along Post Ave.

Rush hour N23 trips via West Shore Rd to serve the Industrial Complex the now eliminated N28 used to

N48 to Crossways/Woodbury via Jericho Turnpike weekdays only to serve office parks in Syosset

Are those your ideas or ideas that bus drivers have mentioned? I had the same ideas for the N19 and N78. I can understand the N35 idea, there really isn't much usage north of NCC.

We knew things were bound to change!

The plan was suppose to be "No service reductions/cuts,or fare hikes for 2012."

Expect more and more of these meetings!

2.6 million is not enough to run the LARGEST surburban bus company in america!

There seems to be a misunderstanding about the funding for NICE. The budget isn't 2.6 million. 2.6 million is just the Subsidy that Nassau County supplies as part of NICE's budget. NICE could raise the fare to cover 100% of the cost, and at that point $0 from Nassau would be enough to run the system. Lets not get all tethered into the subsidy issue, all mass transit does not need excessive subsidy, contrary to popular belief. A lot will argue that mass transit is not supposed to make a profit. The fact is that, it's irresponsible to pour money into a black hole and consistently raise taxes to do so, when they could make a system more efficient and run as close to making a profit or breaking even as possible. When you do that it becomes EASIER to make service improvements, capital improvements, etc.

 

Think about it, it's easier to buy things when you have money saved as opposed to putting it on a credit card and paying interest which could amount to double the cost of whatever you've purchased.

 

The meetings are kind of pointless, because Veolia and Nassau are going to do what they want regardless, it's just to inform us what's going to happen and its nothing we can say that will change it bascially! These meeting are two meeting are set to close to each other.

We'll see how they conduct their hearings. The MTA's hearings were lame. They would have people from the MTA and Politicians speak first and foremost, then let loud mouth riders foam at the mouth. They need to have rules that everyone should respect each other and have something of substance to add to the hearing. They said they would have a presentation every 30 mins, followed by discussion, which I like the idea of. Then people can ask questions and talk about each service adjustment planned.

 

When Long Island Bus held the hearings for the 2010 cuts, how exactly did the people save the N88 which was a proposed cut? Was that a time when the hearing actually listened to the people?

According to the MTA's spreadsheet the N88 made money so they were BS'ing about cutting it. Sensationalism.

 

Since they announced the possibility of express buses, and it is reported that someone driving a new MCI CNG commuter coach for LA stopped by Mitchell Field to say hi to friends and so that NICE execs could check out the new cng commuter coach. Putting these two coincidences together do you think NICE might get new mci cng commuter coaches in the future?

 

How much do you guys feel NICE should charge for express service with with these buses? Same as the city?

 

If they were to have Express Service, where would it run to/from?

[Marctalky1]

Since they announced the possibility of express buses, and it is reported that someone driving a new MCI CNG commuter coach for LA stopped by Mitchell Field to say hi to friends and so that NICE execs could check out the new cng commuter coach. Putting these two coincidences together do you think NICE might get new mci cng commuter coaches in the future?

 

How much do you guys feel NICE should charge for express service with with these buses? Same as the city?

 

Charge more is my guess but if there is enough people then keep it at 5 50.

[qjtransitmaster]

Wow, sounds interesting, I can't wait to see what's proposed!

 

The suspense is killing me what lines will be enhanced and express ohh shit!!

[checkmatechamp13]

I heard a rumor from some bus driver that the N24 will run to Hicksville.

Some ideas could be:

1) N27 becomes Roosevelt Field-Glen Cove, via Glen Cove Rd (no Roslyn Rd detour). Being the 16 already duplicates the N27, let the 16 handle the 27's crowds south of RF. On Sundays N16 runs, no N35.

 

2) N21 goes down Glen Cove Ave from Bryant, follows old N27 routing and goes to Locust Valley via Forest.

 

3) N35 could be shortened to NCC except rush hours to Westbury, as much as I need that route ridership is light except rush hours along Post Ave.

 

 

1) Wait. Would you eliminate Sunday service on the N27? :confused:

 

2) So basically, you'd flip-flop the N21/N27?

 

And like I said, I think buses should serve more of Glen Cove. One bus goes down Landing Road and the other goes down Forest Avenue. Maybe the N20 Roslyn short-turns could go down Elm Avenue as well.

 

3) The N35 is actually a pretty efficient route overall, and the section north of NCC is relatively short, so I could see them keeping it around.

 

We knew things were bound to change!

The plan was suppose to be "No service reductions/cuts,or fare hikes for 2012."

Expect more and more of these meetings!

2.6 million is not enough to run the LARGEST surburban bus company in america!

 

But the thing is that not all service reductions are necessarily bad. If you cut buses from one route that barely carries any riders, and use the buses to create another route that taps into a new market and gets decently filled, you're still saving money while providing better service overall.

 

More express routes YES!!!!!! What about an Idea to Compete with MTA and have Mets Express busses? Charge say 5 50 like an express bus VIA LIE? No transfer at woodside and there in less then 20-30 mins.

 

I don't think they'll be able to do it at $5.50. The MTA-run express routes in eastern Queens cost in the range of $10-$12 per passenger, and the distance they travel is less. Veolia would realistically have to charge more to attract passengers (though then again, they might still be able to charge less than the LIRR).

 

I would like to see the N4 get express buses, one stop in every town along Merrick Rd...

 

What they could do is have the Freeport runs run limited between Rockville Center and Jamaica, and the short-turns run local.

 

1) Are those your ideas or ideas that bus drivers have mentioned? I had the same ideas for the N19 and N78. I can understand the N35 idea, there really isn't much usage north of NCC.

 

2) We'll see how they conduct their hearings. The MTA's hearings were lame. They would have people from the MTA and Politicians speak first and foremost, then let loud mouth riders foam at the mouth. They need to have rules that everyone should respect each other and have something of substance to add to the hearing. They said they would have a presentation every 30 mins, followed by discussion, which I like the idea of. Then people can ask questions and talk about each service adjustment planned.

 

3) According to the MTA's spreadsheet the N88 made money so they were BS'ing about cutting it. Sensationalism.

 

 

1) I think he was only referring to the N24 going to Hicksville. The rest of the ideas are all speculation.

 

2) Exactly. I hate it when you have a bunch of people just chanting things like "No service cuts!" without giving any testimony about which routes specifically they want saved. And the politicians get to cut ahead of all the people they're supposed to be representing, which is BS.

 

3) Their numbers made no sense with the N88. They said that the marginal cost per passenger during the last 3 hours of service (20:00-23:00) was still $1.15, so they were still making money during the last 3 hours of service and yet they still cut it.

[qjtransitmaster]

Brett and b35 can't say nothing about my idea about n51 cause extending it was pinepower's idea but its different from mine. Trust me if I had my way NICE will bee too easy to use to even deny let alone argue against. but you will hear me at the meetings u will all hear bring it on veolia

[checkmatechamp13]

N80 and N81 N73/74. One of the pair runs rush hours only. N81 goes up S.Oyster Bay Rd to Woodbury Rd to service shopping centers. N80 would be rush hours only.

 

 

Oh, and I'd extend the N81 to Oyster Bay. I don't know if it would make it too delay-prone (since it would be going from one end of Nassau to the other), but it would provide riders in Oyster Bay with a connection to the rest of the system. If they're heading out east, they could catch the LIRR PJ Branch, and the service to Penn Station is faster from Syosset than from Oyster Bay.

 

If the N81 isn't extended there, I'd just create a new route to do Syosset-Oyster Bay.