NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[N6 Limited]

That's still 4 buses for these two lightly-used routes.

 

He means that only two buses are needed combined for both routes. Whenever one leaves HIcksville as an N80, it returns as and N81 and vice versa. So now, instead of 3 buses to run both routes only 2 are needed.

[checkmatechamp13]

He means that only two buses are needed combined for both routes. Whenever one leaves HIcksville as an N80, it returns as and N81 and vice versa. So now, instead of 3 buses to run both routes only 2 are needed.

 

 

35 minute runtime on the N80 + 42 minute runtime on the N81 = 77 minutes, which means a 90 minute cycle (this is with both going to Hicksville LIRR, not the Broadway Mall). The headway is 30 minutes combined, so that means you'd need 3 buses.

 

Right now, the buses have a 120 minute cycle, which requires 4 buses.

 

So you save a bus, but the costs go down by 25%, not 33%.

 

Well, one bus saved is one bus saved.

[PinePower]

That's still 4 buses for these two lightly-used routes.

 

 

Which is still too many, there should only be 2 buses on that route. Have them alternative every hour. I'm still very dissapointed NICE hasn't made more significant cuts to those routes, while riders in Glen Cove get shafted. Today I was on the 3:10pm n27 departure from HTC, left the mall already crowded and then had to pick up around 20 ppl getting off from the n20, so it got crushloaded. More people took those n21's they canned going all the way to Glen Cove than any of the n80 and n81. I just don't get their logic sometimes. At least they need an earlier eastbound n21 than the one that arrives in Glen Cove at 5:19pm.

[PinePower]

Only during rush hour does the n21 have sufficient ridership. Middays and weekends during LI Bus and the beginning of this year, the n21 ran close to empty past Roslyn, where only the n21 runs.

The old n35 was rerouted in 2010 (or it may be 2009, I forget) off of Merrick Ave and around the Source mall.

 

 

Well I've seen 15-20 people waiting to/from n27's in Greenvale, so I disagree. Today my n27 got crushloaded after Greenvale with people transferring from the n20 to get to Glen Cove. Surely there were more people taking those cancelled n21's than on your typical n80 or n81. On weekends when I'm on the n20 from Hicksville there's always at least 10 people, usually closer to 15, getting on in Greenvale. I know, on paper it looks good, they see Port Wash has no direct Flushing bus and does OK, but I think alot more people are dependent on the bus in Glen Cove than Port Wash, Glen Cove needs 2 full time bus routes, 1 isnt going to cut it. Glen Cove bus service should have been left alone, maybe a few less buses but that should've been it. Something else is at play here, NICE just wants to do everything to keep these light routes (n73,n74,n80,n81,n50,n51,etc) while squeezing riders on other routes. I'd just like to know what they are thinking, and if there's any money changing hands we don't know about.

[User]

Which is still too many, there should only be 2 buses on that route. Have them alternative every hour. I'm still very dissapointed NICE hasn't made more significant cuts to those routes, while riders in Glen Cove get shafted. Today I was on the 3:10pm n27 departure from HTC, left the mall already crowded and then had to pick up around 20 ppl getting off from the n20, so it got crushloaded. More people took those n21's they canned going all the way to Glen Cove than any of the n80 and n81. I just don't get their logic sometimes. At least they need an earlier eastbound n21 than the one that arrives in Glen Cove at 5:19pm.

 

Well I've seen 15-20 people waiting to/from n27's in Greenvale, so I disagree. Today my n27 got crushloaded after Greenvale with people transferring from the n20 to get to Glen Cove. Surely there were more people taking those cancelled n21's than on your typical n80 or n81. On weekends when I'm on the n20 from Hicksville there's always at least 10 people, usually closer to 15, getting on in Greenvale. I know, on paper it looks good, they see Port Wash has no direct Flushing bus and does OK, but I think alot more people are dependent on the bus in Glen Cove than Port Wash, Glen Cove needs 2 full time bus routes, 1 isnt going to cut it. Glen Cove bus service should have been left alone, maybe a few less buses but that should've been it. Something else is at play here, NICE just wants to do everything to keep these light routes (n73,n74,n80,n81,n50,n51,etc) while squeezing riders on other routes. I'd just like to know what they are thinking, and if there's any money changing hands we don't know about.

 

I just happened to watch your Vlog today and you kept saying you're gonna push for restoration of the n21. I have to disagree and say that won't work because yea, you got on a crushed n27, but you did it in early rush hour and that's the reason. Rush hour is the busiest time for buses, but just because a bus is busy in rush hour doesn't mean it would be busy off peak. While the n21 going to full restoration is honestly a waste because buses run empty past Roslyn northbound, adding one or two earlier buses on the PM rush hour n21 would probably not be a big problem and you think you should push for that with NICE.

[nostalgia]

35 minute runtime on the N80 + 42 minute runtime on the N81 = 77 minutes, which means a 90 minute cycle (this is with both going to Hicksville LIRR, not the Broadway Mall). The headway is 30 minutes combined, so that means you'd need 3 buses.

 

Right now, the buses have a 120 minute cycle, which requires 4 buses.

 

So you save a bus, but the costs go down by 25%, not 33%.

 

Well, one bus saved is one bus saved.

 

 

I looked at the new schedule:

81 leaves Hicksville at :40 and arrives Sunrise Mall at :22. Bus leaves Sunrise as 80 at :30 and arrives Hicksville at :05

80 leaves Hicksville at :10 and arrives Sunrise Mall at :45. Bus leaves Sunrise as 81 at :53 and arrives HIcksville at :35

 

I count only two buses required.

[PinePower]

I just happened to watch your Vlog today and you kept saying you're gonna push for restoration of the n21. I have to disagree and say that won't work because yea, you got on a crushed n27, but you did it in early rush hour and that's the reason. Rush hour is the busiest time for buses, but just because a bus is busy in rush hour doesn't mean it would be busy off peak. While the n21 going to full restoration is honestly a waste because buses run empty past Roslyn northbound, adding one or two earlier buses on the PM rush hour n21 would probably not be a big problem and you think you should push for that with NICE.

 

 

Some earlier buses would certainly help. But I still think they'd get some usage on weekends. Or at the least have those n20s go to CW Post on Saturdays in addition to Sundays. All I'm saying is they cut too much service to Glen Cove, have them add an earlier n21 and have the n27 go to RF full time and I'll be alot happer. I used to be a regular n21 rider back when I lived in Sea Cliff before 2001, and the buses were rarely empty at any time east of Roslyn. We often had alot of workers that used the n21 between points in Great Neck, Manhasset, and Roslyn traveling to/from Glen Cove. Of course ridership could've dropped since then, but I have a hard time believing most n21's were empty east of Roslyn all the time outside of peak. On Saturdays, I believe, the n27 Roslyn-Glen Cove "shuttle to nowhere" actually uses the n20s that come into Roslyn, they could've actually had those run to Roslyn RR for a guaranteed transfer to an n27. The whole n20 to n27 thing isnt working on weekends because they miss their connections. I'm sorry but I'm with Yuki on this one, the current system for Glen Cove riders is a dismal failure. The money saved by getting rid of the n27 beyond Roslyn on weekends, and the n21 outside of rush hours, could've been made up by scaling back service on many other routes with lower ridership, like the SE Nassau Pork Routes (which is what I'm calling them from now on).

If I were Veolia, I would have only trimmed the amount of n21 trips and the hours, n21 wouldn't run past 8pm weekdays, 7pm on Saturdays, and 6pm on Sundays. I would've left the n23 and n27 alone. I would've reduced the n80 and n81 to run every other hour on weekdays only bi-hourly n81 service Sat (hourly service Hicksville-Sunrise Mall), n74 eliminated, n73 skips Cornflower detour full time), n50 rush hours only, n19 every other trip ends at Sunrise. I know you say those n21 trips were empty, but since the changes the buses in Glen Cove are much more crowded, late, and often people miss their connections. If I was still stuck in Sea Cliff I'd be pwned, and an hour or more would have been added to my trip to Flushing. I know whats going on I'm in Greenvale every weekend and see the 15-20 ppl waiting for the n27, often standing there for the next bus because the n20 was late. Sadly I guess they aren't complaining to NICE, since NICE thinks this is working. I'm sorry having to wait another hour for the next bus on what used to be a single bus ride is unacceptable. Glen Cove riders are getting the BS from both ends, n27/n23 on weekends and n27/n20 to Flushing on weekends and off peak (particularly Sat when only n20 Hicksville serves Greenvale).

Edited December 28, 2012 by PinePower

[PinePower]

And this is a photo taken over the summer in early evening of all the riders who got off the n20 going to Glen Cove who had to wait for the next n27 and stand there for another hour. Certainly more than what would be on the n80 or n81!

[checkmatechamp13]

I looked at the new schedule:

81 leaves Hicksville at :40 and arrives Sunrise Mall at :22. Bus leaves Sunrise as 80 at :30 and arrives Hicksville at :05

80 leaves Hicksville at :10 and arrives Sunrise Mall at :45. Bus leaves Sunrise as 81 at :53 and arrives HIcksville at :35

 

I count only two buses required.

 

 

I count 3. If you put an hour in front of the time, it'll make sense.

 

8:40 - 9:22 9:30 - 10:05

9:10 - 9:45 9:53 - 10:35

 

But now you have nothing covering the 9:40 out of Hicksville. The next bus available is the one arriving at 10:05, which becomes the 10:10. You need a third bus to complete the schedule.

 

8:40 - 9:22 9:30 - 10:05

9:10 - 9:45 9:53 - 10:35

9:40 - 10:22 10:30 - 11:05

 

And then the cycle starts again, with the 8:40 out of Hicksville also being the 10:10 out of Hicksville, and so on.

 

It's a 90 minute cycle, which means that with one bus, you'll end up with 90 minute headways. If you want 30 minute headways, you need 3 buses. (90/30 = 3)

[checkmatechamp13]

I know, on paper it looks good, they see Port Wash has no direct Flushing bus and does OK, but I think alot more people are dependent on the bus in Glen Cove than Port Wash, Glen Cove needs 2 full time bus routes, 1 isnt going to cut it.

 

 

I don't think it's really an issue of "Port Washington doesn't have direct Flushing service", because they already have the LIRR, so it would be pointless to run a bus line that would basically parallel it for the entire route. Yes, it's more expensive, but still, the direct option is there. (The MTA wouldn't have wanted to compete with itself anyway, and NICE wouldn't have really seen how it would be profitable)

 

At least with the N27, it (originally) served the RFM, which wasn't served by the LIRR. Now of course is a different story.

Edited December 28, 2012 by checkmatechamp13

[RtrainBlues]

If buses aren't making connections, instead of having such a tight connection where there's an hour wait if you miss the connecting bus, wouldn't it be much simpler & cheaper to reschedule the buses to allow up to 15 to 20 minutes leeway for the connection?

Edited December 28, 2012 by RtrainBlues

[User]

If buses aren't making connections, instead of having such a tight connection where there's an hour wait if you miss the connecting bus, wouldn't it be much simpler & cheaper to reschedule the buses to allow up to 15 to 20 minutes leeway for the connection?

 

The problem is that 15 - 20 minutes is quickly diminished in Nassau County because of traffic everywhere and the fact that most street lights aren't synced correctly, and the bus is delayed so often because it doesn't go that fast to begin with.

[PinePower]

I don't think it's really an issue of "Port Washington doesn't have direct Flushing service", because they already have the LIRR, so it would be pointless to run a bus line that would basically parallel it for the entire route. Yes, it's more expensive, but still, the direct option is there. (The MTA wouldn't have wanted to compete with itself anyway, and NICE wouldn't have really seen how it would be profitable)

 

At least with the N27, it (originally) served the RFM, which wasn't served by the LIRR. Now of course is a different story.

 

 

That's another thing, PW has direct LIRR service to Flushing. Glen Cove was isolated enough to begin with, then Veolia came along and decided to knock down one of it's only 2 bridges.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

That's another thing, PW has direct LIRR service to Flushing. Glen Cove was isolated enough to begin with, then Veolia came along and decided to knock down one of it's only 2 bridges.

 

 

Well You know NICE will say take the LIRR instead

[User]

 

LINK: http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=E6C600575E7F85B49DE69FDBA5973AA8?site=newsday&view=longisland_item&feed:a=newsday_5min&feed:c=longisland&feed:i=1.4381651&nopaging=1

 

NICE bus schedule changes to begin Sunday

 

Service changes on most Nassau bus routes will start Sunday and range from better Long Island Rail Road connections to longer time between buses during off-peak hours.

 

Service will start in new areas, and more buses will be added on some existing routes. Some departure times will change and some routes will be restructured.

 

The schedule changes -- part of Nassau Inter-County Express' quarterly review and adjustment of schedules -- are designed to "improve overall system performance," said NICE spokesman Andrew Kraus. That means improving on-time performance, enhancing transfer coordination, responding to rider patterns and ensuring efficient operations, he said.

 

NICE's two express routes to and from Queens will gain new stops to provide additional capacity. The N6 Express will add a stop at Franklin Avenue/ New Hyde Park Road and the N22 will add stops at New Hyde Park Road and the Mineola Intermodal service center.

 

Other changes include additional trips on the N4, and shorter intervals between buses on the N6 Local, the N19, N24 and N48/49. NICE will also provide additional trips between Hempstead and Nassau Community College on its N16 line during the school year.

 

More than a dozen bus routes will gain as much as 15 minutes in run times, a change NICE officials have said better reflects the actual time of a trip. Many routes will change departure times in order to better coordinate transfers, including with the LIRR . Nine routes will have service cut during off-peak hours. They include the N4, which will run every 20 minutes instead of every 15 minutes between 9 a.m. and 2 p.m., and the N35, which will run every hour between Hempstead and Westbury instead of every 30 minutes.

 

Charlene Obernauer, founder of the Long Island Bus Riders Union, an advocacy group, said since Nassau privatized its bus system a year ago, customers on routes with low ridership have been unfairly penalized. And she fears it will only get worse.

 

"Where does it end? At some point, is the ridership so low to them that they have to cut the entire route?" Obernauer said. "Everybody's paying the same taxes, so everybody should get some level of service."

 

Because none of the service changes will result in a reduction of service of 25 percent or more on any line, they do not require approval by Nassau's Transit Advisory Committee, which oversees the bus system. NICE chief executive Michael Setzer called them "fundamentally housekeeping changes."

 

For details about the changes, go to nicebus.com.

[N6 Limited]

Because none of the service changes will result in a reduction of service of 25 percent or more on any line, they do not require approval by Nassau's Transit Advisory Committee, which oversees the bus system. NICE chief executive Michael Setzer called them "fundamentally housekeeping changes."

 

For details about the changes, go to nicebus.com.

 

Chisel a little at a time lol. Do they have traffic checkers out there all of the time?

[FamousNYLover]

I got few stocks of n4s, n40/41s, n43s, n19s, n62s, n36s at Freeport; Hempstead, I got n6s, n16/17s, n23s, n27s, n31/32s, n35s, n40/41s, n43s, n46/47s, n48/49s, n54/55s, n70/71/72s, etc.

 

No new schedule yet at Hicksville or Great Neck Stations.

[User]

I got few stocks of n4s, n40/41s, n43s, n19s, n62s, n36s at Freeport; Hempstead, I got n6s, n16/17s, n23s, n27s, n31/32s, n35s, n40/41s, n43s, n46/47s, n48/49s, n54/55s, n70/71/72s, etc.

 

No new schedule yet at Hicksville or Great Neck Stations.

 

Holy crap, obsessed with schedules much?

[qjtransitmaster]

I got few stocks of n4s, n40/41s, n43s, n19s, n62s, n36s at Freeport; Hempstead, I got n6s, n16/17s, n23s, n27s, n31/32s, n35s, n40/41s, n43s, n46/47s, n48/49s, n54/55s, n70/71/72s, etc.

 

No new schedule yet at Hicksville or Great Neck Stations.

 

better idea download the PDF files onto your tablet or smartphone done. Just a suggestion. Edited December 29, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[checkmatechamp13]

Well You know NICE will say take the LIRR instead

 

 

Which doesn't help if you're going to Flushing. Even if you want to ignore the fact that it's an extra fare, the OB Branch doesn't directly connect to the N20, and aside from that, it has crap frequencies.

 

I mean, with the N27, it could theoretically be cheaper for them to work out a deal with the MTA to offer free transfers to the LIRR OB Branch (so they could take the N22/24 to the RFM, or the N40/41 to Hempstead), but again, the problem is the crappy frequencies.

 

But as a few people (including myself) have mentioned, it's stupid that they could've taken the opportunity to make the N27 less duplicative of the LIRR and they chose not to do it. That park on the waterfront is in a relatively dense area 2 miles from the LIRR. It would make a perfect terminal for the N27, and yet they still keep it terminating where it does. The N21 like I said doesn't even really duplicate the LIRR, but they could've extended it to Locust Valley and had it provide direct service to the hospital.

[FamousNYLover]

Holy crap, obsessed with schedules much?

 

 

Every time I go out into Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester or Rockland Counties, I don't go without bus schedules.

Even HART (LI) sent me their new HART Bus route schedules.

 

I gave each schedule to PinePower, one member of LIBRU because they need for wheelchair survey.

[FamousNYLover]

better idea download the PDF files onto your tablet or smartphone done. Just a suggestion.

 

I don't use smartphone.

 

At TAC meeting, I even requested for new schedule set to Jack Khouz.

 

It not easy to see PDF on internet or phone.

 

Everyone actually like printed bus schedule.

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't use smartphone.

 

At TAC meeting, I even requested for new schedule set to Jack Khouz.

 

It not easy to see PDF on internet or phone.

 

Everyone actually like printed bus schedule.

 

actually it's very easy just zoom in. and you can see even more detail. Most people use smartphones in 10 years you will not have a choice. I got rid of most of my paper schedules when I got my first smartphone. Only keeping a few just in case. Edited December 29, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[User]

Every time I go out into Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester or Rockland Counties, I don't go without bus schedules.

Even HART (LI) sent me their new HART Bus route schedules.

 

I gave each schedule to PinePower, one member of LIBRU because they need for wheelchair survey.

 

Yea, but how many of each schedule did you take? Not like piles I hope, because thats a waste kinda.

I don't use smartphone.

 

At TAC meeting, I even requested for new schedule set to Jack Khouz.

 

It not easy to see PDF on internet or phone.

 

Everyone actually like printed bus schedule.

 

actually it's very easy just zoom in. and you can see even more detail. Most people use smartphones in 10 years you will not have a choice. I got rid of most of my paper schedules when I got my first smartphone. Only keeping a few just in case.

 

Yea, but QJ is right, although NICE has to release smartphone apps first before they can justify not printing schedules anymore. The , having an open smartphone API and many smartphone apps currently on the app stores, has already started slowing down with printing schedules. NICE will eventually do the same thing.

[N6 Limited]

Which doesn't help if you're going to Flushing. Even if you want to ignore the fact that it's an extra fare, the OB Branch doesn't directly connect to the N20, and aside from that, it has crap frequencies.

 

I mean, with the N27, it could theoretically be cheaper for them to work out a deal with the MTA to offer free transfers to the LIRR OB Branch (so they could take the N22/24 to the RFM, or the N40/41 to Hempstead), but again, the problem is the crappy frequencies.

 

But as a few people (including myself) have mentioned, it's stupid that they could've taken the opportunity to make the N27 less duplicative of the LIRR and they chose not to do it. That park on the waterfront is in a relatively dense area 2 miles from the LIRR. It would make a perfect terminal for the N27, and yet they still keep it terminating where it does. The N21 like I said doesn't even really duplicate the LIRR, but they could've extended it to Locust Valley and had it provide direct service to the hospital.

 

Most people using the N27 are using it because it's more affordable, they have an unlimited card, and/or they are transferring to/from other bus routes, the LIRR isn't going to do anything but make it less convenient and more expensive. Just because two different forms of transit parallel each other doesn't mean they're fighting over the same riders. Also the LIRR stations are somewhat far apart compared to bus stops and buses run more frequently.

actually it's very easy just zoom in. and you can see even more detail. Most people use smartphones in 10 years you will not have a choice. I got rid of most of my paper schedules when I got my first smartphone. Only keeping a few just in case.

 

I like to carry a bus schedule also , what if your phone dies?

Yea, but how many of each schedule did you take? Not like piles I hope, because thats a waste kinda.

 

Yea, but QJ is right, although NICE has to release smartphone apps first before they can justify not printing schedules anymore. The , having an open smartphone API and many smartphone apps currently on the app stores, has already started slowing down with printing schedules. NICE will eventually do the same thing.

 

It sucked finding MTA bus schedules.