No Sunday Brooklyn Express Bus Service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Enough of this crap about these "nice big Lincolns." You live in an outerborough. As a resident of Manhattan for my entire life I do not see any form of luxury whatsoever with those cheap crappy car services, and I would never use anything besides a licensed yellow medallion cab. You don't need to call to get one of those, absolutely no interaction with the driver except for telling them where you're going, and there can be absolutely no argument over the fare because it says so right on the meter.

 

I'm not saying that those outerborough car services are bad, I'm just saying that they're not at all as high as you put them out to be.

 

If I need a ride at any time of day, all I have do is walk downstairs, tell my doorman I need a cab, and sit down inside the building until he gets one for me, which only takes a couple minutes.

 

 

And also, just like you look down on people who take the local bus and subway, I'm pretty sure there are people with CARS who look down on folk like you who have to wait outside for a bus that runs only once every half hour on the weekend to go the city, and then have to wait up to another half hour for a return bus. I live in Manhattan and no matter where I'm going, even if it is less than a mile within walking distance, I'll take the car if I'm positive that I can get parking nearby. Oh, and want to go complain about how much the express bus costs? Well parking on the street is $3.00 an hour and you don't see drivers complaining.

 

LOL! Very funny... I personally like Lincoln cars because they are roomy and comfortable. As for folks who drive looking down on me, well of course. I've personally always preferred to walk to be honest. I've never been a huge fan of cars and I only tolerate cabs to be honest. When I lived in Europe I generally walked everywhere unless I had to take the bus and of course when necessary then a taxi.

 

As for car service, things work differently here in the outerborughs. You said yourself that you prefer Manhattan. Me personally I'm a suburban guy and that's just the way it is. As for me looking down on folks who take the local bus and subway, well that's very funny because I'm sure folks look down on me for preferring to walk which is probably seen as lower than taking the subway or the bus so take that and smoke it.

 

Personally that's where my European influences come in at because the Americans are obsessed with cars. The Europeans on the other hand invest more in transit and encourage folks to walk. Why in the world do you need a car on the Upper East Side? I can see having one (clearly for status in your case), but you come off as snobbish, talking about how if there is parking you'll just drive. Your snobbery is far higher than mine, so don't sit here and try to check my level of arrogance.

 

As for this crap about doormen, we have plenty of doormen apt. bldgs here in Riverdale and yellow taxis do come to drop-off. In the city the Lincoln's are shunned, but less so I find in the outerboroughs. Lincolns are like our yellow taxis here in Riverdale. Finally, you must be referring to checkmate complaining about the cost of the express bus, because I have said plenty of times that the fare should be raised.

[Keon Milton]

The reason for no Sunday express bus service in Brooklyn is because the borough has plenty of subway lines running through where many of the express routes operate. That's not to say there can't be any express bus service on Sunday. If the BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4 and BM5 have Saturday service, why can't they have Sunday service as well? Just asking. Also, I do support restoring weekend service on the X27 and X28 bus routes, if necessary.

[Gorgor]

LOL! Very funny... I personally like Lincoln cars because they are roomy and comfortable. As for folks who drive looking down on me, well of course. I've personally always preferred to walk to be honest. I've never been a huge fan of cars and I only tolerate cabs to be honest. When I lived in Europe I generally walked everywhere unless I had to take the bus and of course when necessary then a taxi.

 

As for car service, things work differently here in the outerborughs. You said yourself that you prefer Manhattan. Me personally I'm a suburban guy and that's just the way it is. As for me looking down on folks who take the local bus and subway, well that's very funny because I'm sure folks look down on me for preferring to walk which is probably seen as lower than taking the subway or the bus so take that and smoke it.

 

Personally that's where my European influences come in at because the Americans are obsessed with cars. The Europeans on the other hand invest more in transit and encourage folks to walk. Why in the world do you need a car on the Upper East Side? I can see having one (clearly for status in your case), but you come off as snobbish, talking about how if there is parking you'll just drive. Your snobbery is far higher than mine, so don't sit here and try to check my level of arrogance.

 

As for this crap about doormen, we have plenty of doormen apt. bldgs here in Riverdale and yellow taxis do come to drop-off. In the city the Lincoln's are shunned, but less so I find in the outerboroughs. Lincolns are like our yellow taxis here in Riverdale. Finally, you must be referring to checkmate complaining about the cost of the express bus, because I have said plenty of times that the fare should be raised.

 

Yes, if I do bring out my "snobbery," as you put it, it can far surpass yours, but unlike you I don't put out useless and pointless information about fancy this and that because it never has any relation to the subject in question all. If anything I make sure I try to not come across as an over the top snob as well as be vague with most of my personal information I post because god forbid one of my upper class far-superior-to-your peers recognizes me by my posts.

 

You'll go and flaunt how you have expensive dinners in the city, wear expensive European jackets or whatever, but I'm not like that. I have no need to talk about my million dollar Upper East Side house, my amazing life, or my expensive BMW sports car that I'll use to drive anywhere I can park it. And about doormen hailing cabs, as far as I know that's pretty much standard in any doorman building in the city.

 

But really, none of us care at all what you have and this and that, all you need to say is that you were in the city and [insert transit related thing] that happened. If I inserted all that random stuff then I could probably make you sick to the point of vomiting as well. I'm only on this forum because I have an interest in public transportation networks, which I've had since I was a kid, in general and a huge interest in New York City, which is why I like to talk and debate about the MTA and subways/buses.

 

And just so you know, I often do agree with your posts about express buses or buses in general when you're talking about that and that only. You're a very knowledgeable person when it comes to buses and I often times enjoy reading your posts about certain bus related issues. I'm not trying to make an enemy with you, I actually respect you and many of your transit related opinions, but this show-offish type thing has only recently started to get quite annoying.

 

So all I'm saying is just stick strictly to transit I guess? This is a transit forum, not your diary, and should be treated as such.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, if I do bring out my "snobbery," as you put it, it can far surpass yours, but unlike you I don't put out useless and pointless information about fancy this and that because it never has any relation to the subject in question all. If anything I make sure I try to not come across as an over the top snob as well as be vague with most of my personal information I post because god forbid one of my upper class far-superior-to-your peers recognizes me by my posts.

 

You'll go and flaunt how you have expensive dinners in the city, wear expensive European jackets or whatever, but I'm not like that. I have no need to talk about my million dollar Upper East Side house, my amazing life, or my expensive BMW sports car that I'll use to drive anywhere I can park it. And about doormen hailing cabs, as far as I know that's pretty much standard in any doorman building in the city.

 

But really, none of us care at all what you have and this and that, all you need to say is that you were in the city and [insert transit related thing] that happened. If I inserted all that random stuff then I could probably make you sick to the point of vomiting as well. I'm only on this forum because I have an interest in public transportation networks, which I've had since I was a kid, in general and a huge interest in New York City, which is why I like to talk and debate about the MTA and subways/buses.

 

And just so you know, I often do agree with your posts about express buses or buses in general when you're talking about that and that only. You're a very knowledgeable person when it comes to buses and I often times enjoy reading your posts about certain bus related issues. I'm not trying to make an enemy with you, I actually respect you and many of your transit related opinions, but this show-offish type thing has only recently started to get quite annoying.

 

So all I'm saying is just stick strictly to transit I guess? This is a transit forum, not your diary, and should be treated as such.

 

Well if that's the case then there shouldn't be off topic threads. Most of the stuff you're complaining about occurs in off topic threads.

[B35 via Church]

This might not match the terminology, but folks kinda feel the same way with the BM5 here mostly because more folks tend to hop on the QMs over that. Lately, I've been taking the BM5 down to Rockaway Blvd to connect with the Q41 and to see such a small amount of folks departing at that stop compared to the QMs, its definitely significant.

 

In the AM, its almost the same. I seen folks bypass BM5s to get on the QMs, its rather strange to me.

I figured that was gonna happen anyway.....

 

....that's why I initially chuckled at the notion back when the MTA decided to add those stops along Woodhaven on the BM5.... Not sure why they thought those QM riders (especially the 15) would consider the BM5 as an alternate..... The 15 comes more often than the BM5 anyway... lol....

 

Nevertheless, the "relationship" (or w/e you wanna call it) woodhaven riders have w/ that QM15 is equivalent to park slope & their F train.... A bus may be a bus to us on the forums, but to patrons that's been taking the Woodhaven blvd QM's for over a decade, that "QM__" matters.... guess you can say, they've become attached to it..... Some of it may be stigma-based ("that's the route that goes to Brooklyn....") as well....

 

I'm sure you've come to realize this, but what you will see as an alternate, is ppl. taking the QM16/17 to 159th av (the first dropoff stop in queens), and have someone pick them up at that stop & drive them to their homes or w/e.....When I used to take the QM16 like twice a week, I would get people asking me "did the 15 come yet"... If it did, I'd say, yes, it came _ minutes ago... and they wait & opt to take the 16/17...

 

the order (in terms of arrival) usually goes QM18 > 15 > 17 > 16

(sometimes there be another 15 that arrives in between the 17 & the 16)

[Grand Concourse]

I was under the impression that the MTA was trying to attract more riders for the BM5 by having it make a few extra stops in Queens. By those comments, I guess it backfired.

Also are they well used? And would they be better off just to revert it back to Brooklyn only service, the way it was?

[B35 via Church]

I was under the impression that the MTA was trying to attract more riders for the BM5 by having it make a few extra stops in Queens. By those comments, I guess it backfired.

Also are they well used? And would they be better off just to revert it back to Brooklyn only service, the way it was?

 

If you ask me, I don't really see much of a change (in usage) now, than in comparison to before they added those stops..... Personally, I don't think it's anything they can do to add more riders to the BM5.... If you ask me, it's the locale of the BM5 route.... You're far more prone to getting residents of those areas to taking some local bus to some subway, than considering the express bus.....

 

With the BM2 out in Canarsie, I get the sense that some of those riders are sick of the hustle & bustle w/ dealing with the (basically having to ride it full, plus xferring to some other subway once it gets to manhattan).... or having to be subjected to the B6/B103 to the 2 @ the junction....

 

As for your last question there.... I don't see them doing it, but I say they should revert the BM5 back to the way it was.... Queens folks are hardly taking advantage of the service, and it's slowing things down a bit for the Starrett city (and other brooklyn) riders that take that route.....

[Future ENY OP]

I was under the impression that the MTA was trying to attract more riders for the BM5 by having it make a few extra stops in Queens. By those comments, I guess it backfired.

Also are they well used? And would they be better off just to revert it back to Brooklyn only service, the way it was?

 

I take the BM5 from time to time, and there aren't queens passengers that utilize the service, never understood to why add stops on Woodhaven when you have the QM15/16/17 to Howard Bch & Far Rockaway. Also, you have Starrett City/Spring creek residents who take the B20/B83 to Broadway/East New York for the for a faster commute to Manhattan.

 

What needs to be done with the BM5 is to bring the bus back to its original route (PRE BQM1) routing AND extend to Canarsie to terminate on E.80/AVE M possibly to help out the BM2, thus you are giving certain BM2 riders an option to board the BM5 and taking the back-way which I find a lot faster & convenient. Only the Downtown Buses PM buses head to Spring Creek, while the midtown head to Canarsie/Williams Ave.

[Cait Sith]

I was under the impression that the MTA was trying to attract more riders for the BM5 by having it make a few extra stops in Queens. By those comments, I guess it backfired.

Also are they well used? And would they be better off just to revert it back to Brooklyn only service, the way it was?

 

The main reason I can see those stops being created for the BM5 was to address the loads on the QM15 and QM16s, every once in a while you'd get a standee or two on both of those lines.

[Shortline Bus]

The main reason I can see those stops being created for the BM5 was to address the loads on the QM15 and QM16s, every once in a while you'd get a standee or two on both of those lines.

 

If that the case(which Cait accuaretly points out)then the should just added couple of extra runs during the height of the am/pm rush hours to the QM15/16. And I agree with (B35) that the should have the BM5 return as a non stop express between East Midtown and Linden/80th St on the Brooklyn/Queens border. Not to mention extend the BM5 out to Canarise as well.

[Cait Sith]

If that the case(which Cait accuaretly points out)then the should just added couple of extra runs during the height of the am/pm rush hours to the QM15/16. And I agree with (B35) that the should have the BM5 return as a non stop express between East Midtown and Linden/80th St on the Brooklyn/Queens border. Not to mention extend the BM5 out to Canarise as well.

 

You can add more runs, but they won't have enough buses. Far Rockaway & JFK only got a handful of MCIs.

[B35 via Church]

The main reason I can see those stops being created for the BM5 was to address the loads on the QM15 and QM16s, every once in a while you'd get a standee or two on both of those lines.

Yeh, standees occur on the 16 on occasion..... that 15 though, oh you're bound to see a couple runs with standees on em... been on enough BM5's & QM16's that have passed QM15's along woodhaven, and saw ppl. standing on those bad boys.....

 

 

 

If that the case(which Cait accuaretly points out)then the should just added couple of extra runs during the height of the am/pm rush hours to the QM15/16.

 

 

 

And I agree with (B35) that the should have the BM5 return as a non stop express between East Midtown and Linden/80th St on the Brooklyn/Queens border.

 

Not to mention extend the BM5 out to Canarise as well.

 

1) nah, you don't really need extra runs on the QM15... spreading them out a little more evenly might help... while I mention that you do have runs that are SRO, I also see QM15's that leave manhattan w/ like 10 ppl.... of course, this is a result of scheduling buses too close together (and/or, buses gettin that caught up in traffic as to where you may get/see successive 15's)....

 

the 16/17 have combined headways of 10 mins, for the most part..... I've felt for the longest, if the two routes were to swap schedules, the 16 would get more ridership.... currently, the 17 runs 10 mins ahead of the 16.... In any case, I don't see them adding anymore runs to this couplet either - for the exact reason cait pointed out.....

 

 

2) ....then the question becomes one of demand.

 

This is why I think you have as few BM2's that run out to Starrett as you do now......

[checkmatechamp13]

I was under the impression that there was no Sunday service as well, since I also remember the BM3 signage with No Sundays. However, in talking with a BM3 rider, I was led to believe that there was Sunday service at one point. That could be wrong, but it seems possible since this person had been living back in Brooklyn some time ago.

 

 

Well then it wasn't the MTA who cut back on the service to the point where it was eliminated. It was Command... (If it even had Sunday service, which I doubt)

 

1) That's fine, but let's not sit here and pretend like the express bus is the only service that should be looked at. That's my problem. There are endless threads about let's reduce express bus service.

 

2) Folks like checkmate and Amtrak are quick to run to the stats about the cost to operate the express bus, etc., etc., but I have yet to see them run to the stats and show the costs to operate LIRR and MNRR trains. I would like to see these stats because there is no way in hell that you can tell me that it's cheap to have trains running empty on the LIRR when folks pay more for that than the express bus. In case you're wondering why I mention the LIRR and MNRR it's because those two services are commuter services like the express bus is.

 

1) Before you came along, there were barely any threads dedicated to express buses (yeah, there were some where reducing express service was mentioned and maybe discussed a little bit, but there weren't any devoted entirely to discussing express buses). The only one devoted to express buses was the one that Forest Glen made about reducing express service and that wasn't even too heated or anything, and you act like everybody was saying to cut express buses.

 

I guarantee you that if you look at any express bus-related threads, the majority of them were created after you joined, and at least half were created by you yourself, so stop acting like we were all hyped up about reducing express buses all along.

 

2) First of all, those stats are a lot easier to find for NYCT/MTAB. There are a lot more costs involved with the LIRR/MNRR, which makes it a lot more confusing. And I think Amtrak did find the stats for the commuter railroads, and he put up a website.

 

And you keep on acting like express bus service is the only thing we want to reduce costs on. If there's inefficient MNRR/LIRR service, then it should be reduced as well. Bustitute the lines during periods of low ridership and you're good to go. (as I've said a million times already)

 

1) And if the B/O does move, s/he gets distracted and has to drive a little slower while you are putting the change or card in the box. I am not charging B/Os with anything when I say the B/O does not want to move; I have told my friend about this before. It is not the B/O's fault for getting pissed when I do not have the card/change ready or when I knock on the door for him/her to open it after s/he closed it (mind you, I only do this when the signal is red and the B/O does not have to concentrate on the traffic to find a gap in traffic to pull out, and a lot of them STILL get pissed when you do stuff like that!).

 

2) The problem is that the cheap transportation (and RRs, even though they are expensive, but the catch is that they actually give you bang for the buck since they actually move ass, unlike express buses) is generally needed a lot more than the exclusive and inefficient (where the two adjectives are NOT mutually exclusive) transportation.

 

3) Also I should add that *certain* areas, especially and mostly in Staten Island, actually should have express buses rather than SBS/LRT. It varies from situation to situation. But I think most people in most neighborhoods would much rather have a local/limited/SBS (in order from least preferred to most preferred) than an express bus. More expensive to use AND gets stuck in lots of traffic, compromising the security of its existence and ridership? Spare me please.

 

1) Just mentioning it, but an +SBS+ bus driver would probably also be pissed if they held the bus while you ran for it (and they definitely wouldn't wait for you to get a ticket from the machine)

 

2) To be fair, the commuter rails have costs like conductors and maintainance for the rails. The commuter rail isn't the same as the subway.

 

3) That would only apply in certain areas. A lot of express bus users are using it to get a direct, one-seat ride to Manhattan (in a comfortable seat, rather than a hard seat or having to stand), so they would prefer that over a light rail or +SBS+ to the subway. That's why routes like the BxM11 get decent ridership. But running a rute just so a handful of people can take advantage of the one-seat ride is pointless.

 

BM5 Since its cheaper than DH and BM1 DUE to most unique routing. BM2 folk can use B103 and transfer ,Bm3 has the Q train BM4 has B31 to train NUFF SAID!!!! REAL tired of this Brooklyn sunday express service CRAP BK PPL DO NOT USE THEIR BUSES ON WEEKENDS ANYWAY!!!!

 

 

It would be cheaper if the BM5 didn't run.

 

It's only cheaper than "a converted headhead" if every single run is deadheading back to the depot for some crazy reason. The MTA doesn't send buses into Manhattan, and then deadhead them back to the depot, while at the same time sending buses back to Brooklyn.

 

For instance, a BM1 run going to Manhattan isn't going to automatically go back to the depot. It'll layover and make a run back to Brooklyn.

 

In the AM, its almost the same. I seen folks bypass BM5s to get on the QMs, its rather strange to me.

 

That doesn't make much sense to me. The bus is emptier than the QM15 (maybe not at Rockaway Blvd, but when it enters Manhattan, the QM15 will be more full), and it's faster because it bypasses more stops. The only reason I can think of would be that they don't want to ride with people from Brooklyn.

 

1) As for car service, things work differently here in the outerborughs. You said yourself that you prefer Manhattan. Me personally I'm a suburban guy and that's just the way it is. As for me looking down on folks who take the local bus and subway, well that's very funny because I'm sure folks look down on me for preferring to walk which is probably seen as lower than taking the subway or the bus so take that and smoke it. B)

 

2) As for this crap about doormen, we have plenty of doormen apt. bldgs here in Riverdale and yellow taxis do come to drop-off.

 

1) You've got to be kidding me.

 

First of all, you're not walking ridiculous distances to avoid taking the local bus/subway. And by ridiculous, I mean like 5 miles each way on a regular basis.

 

And yeah, the people in the projects are really looking down on you walking (for pleasure, because you have an Unlimited MetroCard and can just jump on) while they ride the local bus and subway. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

 

2) But the point is that you can't have a car right at your doorstep within minutes like you can in Manhattan. You have to call in advance and wait for them to come.

[B35 via Church]

As for me looking down on folks who take the local bus and subway, well that's very funny because I'm sure folks look down on me for preferring to walk which is probably seen as lower than taking the subway or the bus so take that and smoke it.

I'm only commenting on the part in bold...

 

iono.... The only way I can see someone being looked down upon for simply walking around in an urban setting, is dependent on how a] blatantly destitute that person appears or b] what specific middle class area you're walking about in (especially if you're a minority; but that's more of a race issue)....

 

Granted, you did say "probably seen as lower", but way I see it.... this day & age, people walking out & about, man ppl. in general aint thinkin about turnin they nose up at you for that.... whether if you're walking, taking a local bus, or taking the subway....

 

"haha, look at that fool walking down there on white plains road while I'm on this 2 train (or Bx39 bus)"...

I can clown the person that says that, just as easily as I'm being clowned for walking (in that scenario).....

 

 

Now If you're seen walkin about in the suburbs, that's a different animal.... Your point there would be much more profound....

 

 

And yeah, the people in the projects are really looking down on you walking (for pleasure, because you have an Unlimited MetroCard and can just jump on) while they ride the local bus and subway. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

lol @ how you put it......

['89 Liberty MCI]

1) Just mentioning it, but an +SBS+ bus driver would probably also be pissed if they held the bus while you ran for it (and they definitely wouldn't wait for you to get a ticket from the machine)

 

That is one of the objectives of SBS though, and that is one of the things that makes it superior to the old system.

 

If the operator is at a red signal, s/he will normally open the doors, no problem. In systems where people pay before boarding, it makes sense to open the doors if the signal is solid red, will not change anytime soon, and the passenger is at one of the doors, ready to board (not at the machine!). The thing is, the whole dynamic is different with SBS because if you are driving a local/limited/express bus (though to a lesser extent with the express, since you do not work nearly as hard on the express as you do on the local/limited), the work can be mind-numbing and burdensome for numerous reasons.

 

Other aspects of SBS, aside from the fact that its operation is more mechanical (requires less thinking, calculation, and guesswork) than that of a local/limited/express bus, eliminate much of the headache that comes with operating the bus. Yes, operating a bus is a repetitive job any way you cut it, but there is a difference between sitting at a stop for 5 minutes picking up people and then opening the doors again (even to pick up just one person!), and sitting at a stop for no more than about 25-30 seconds picking up people (and not having to hear the farebox or deal with each passenger individually and whatnot, not to mention the fact that half of them use the other doors anyway) and then opening the doors again to pick up however many people there are.

[qjtransitmaster]

The reason for no Sunday express bus service in Brooklyn is because the borough has plenty of subway lines running through where many of the express routes operate. That's not to say there can't be any express bus service on Sunday. If the BM1, BM2, BM3, BM4 and BM5 have Saturday service, why can't they have Sunday service as well? Just asking. Also, I do support restoring weekend service on the X27 and X28 bus routes, if necessary.

 

Cause drum roll please NOBODY will use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DONE!!! use those lines then you will know why its not needed all the BMs except maybe the 1 have DISMAL saturday ridership usually EMPTY buses the most you will see is 10 or 5 ppl on the BM2-5 and maybe even the 1 too. I repeat NOBODY Will use it. GIVE IT A REST!! We brooklynites could care less about BM sunday service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm only commenting on the part in bold...

 

iono.... The only way I can see someone being looked down upon for simply walking around in an urban setting, is dependent on how a] blatantly destitute that person appears or b] what specific middle class area you're walking about in (especially if you're a minority; but that's more of a race issue)....

 

Granted, you did say "probably seen as lower", but way I see it.... this day & age, people walking out & about, man ppl. in general aint thinkin about turnin they nose up at you for that.... whether if you're walking, taking a local bus, or taking the subway....

 

"haha, look at that fool walking down there on white plains road while I'm on this 2 train (or Bx39 bus)"...

I can clown the person that says that, just as easily as I'm being clowned for walking (in that scenario).....

 

 

Now If you're seen walkin about in the suburbs, that's a different animal.... Your point there would be much more profound....

 

I made that comment because on Staten Island (which has a more suburban feel albeit in a "urban" setting since it's part of the five boroughs), people do look down on you for walking. It may not be visible in more urban areas like St. George, but it is certainly more evident as you come more inland to Staten Island.

 

I've had folks comment quite a bit about "Wow you don't have a car" (even though I commute to the city to hang out or work just about every day) and how if I said I was going to walk from the express bus home because I felt like going for a walk, they'd be shocked as if it was a big deal. lol I've also heard folks on the phone almost pleading to get a ride from the express bus even if they only had to walk a short distance from the stop because it's like the end of the world to actually walk.

 

That's why folks always run to their cars on Staten Island because God forbid anyone sees them walking. Usually on Staten Island the only folks you see walking are folks walking their dogs, people walking to or from the bus (but usually very short distances) or poor folks who can't afford to drive or take the bus (be it local or express). I think out of everyone on my block I and maybe a handful of people were the only ones who would actually use public transit and walk. Everybody else whenever I'd see them they'd be either getting out of their car or going to their car.

 

In Brooklyn though it is common to see folks walking even in the more suburban like areas. Same thing in the other boroughs, though in certain parts of Queens that isn't true of all areas, particularly ones further out, but on Staten Island folks care more about what type of car they drive than their house and believe me there is a stigma associated with walking. A relative of mine was so bad that she would jump in the car just to go to the store a few blocks away. In all of the years that I've known her she took a "walk" once on Staten Island and said she'd never do it again. LOL

 

In Riverdale there is some truth to that too (which I mention because it too has a suburban feel in some areas), though overall I think folks are more open to the idea of walking and such just from the vibe that I get when I'm out and about.

[qjtransitmaster]

I made that comment because on Staten Island (which has a more suburban feel albeit in a "urban" setting since it's part of the five boroughs), people do look down on you for walking. It may not be visible in more urban areas like St. George, but it is certainly more evident as you come more inland to Staten Island.

 

I've had folks comment quite a bit about "Wow you don't have a car" (even though I commute to the city to hang out or work just about every day) and how if I said I was going to walk from the express bus home because I felt like going for a walk, they'd be shocked as if it was a big deal. lol

 

That's why folks always run to their cars on Staten Island because God forbid anyone sees them walking. Usually on Staten Island the only folks you see walking are folks walking their dogs, people walking to or from the bus or poor folks who can't afford to drive or take the bus (be it local or express).

 

In Brooklyn though it is common to see folks walking even in the more suburban like areas. Same thing in the other boroughs, though in certain parts of Queens that isn't true of all areas, particularly ones further out, but on Staten Island folks care more about what type of car they drive than their house and believe me there is a stigma associated with walking. A relative of mine was so bad that she would jump in the car just to go to the store a few blocks away. In all of the years that I've known her she took a "walk" once on Staten Island and said she'd never do it again. LOL

 

In Riverdale there is some truth to that too, though overall I think folks are more open to the idea of walking and such just from the vibe that I get when I'm out and about.

Hence why more Fatasses live there and ugly smoking women ewww. some or em on the express bus are just plain perverted without discreation. one showed me a home porn clip

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I hope I did not derail the thread. What I have to say is fairly relevant to the OP. I think/hope.

 

 

 

 

 

The problem is that the cheap transportation (and RRs, even though they are expensive, but the catch is that they actually give you bang for the buck since they actually move ass, unlike express buses) is generally needed a lot more than the exclusive and inefficient (where the two adjectives are NOT mutually exclusive) transportation.

 

There are too many disparities in neighborhoods like Riverdale where local bus service totally sucks and express bus service is redundant. Yes, it is redundant. I observed this while living there for 20 years. People in Riverdale might beg to differ, but those who beg to differ are plainly and simply not looking at the big picture and are being myopic. Not trying to offend them, just making an observation.

 

Also I should add that *certain* areas, especially and mostly in Staten Island, actually should have express buses rather than SBS/LRT. It varies from situation to situation. But I think most people in most neighborhoods would much rather have a local/limited/SBS (in order from least preferred to most preferred) than an express bus. More expensive to use AND gets stuck in lots of traffic, compromising the security of its existence and ridership? Spare me please.

 

Now that I live in Riverdale and use the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18, I most certainly beg to differ. You talk about our express bus routes being redundant, but what you fail to acknowledge is that anyone going below 34th street has a real schlepp. To get to the BxM1 or BxM2 on the weekends for example I may have to take either a subway or two local buses and it would be even more connections if I was below 34th street and used MetroNorth because MetroNorth requires the shuttle bus which doesn't run on the weekends. In any event, I will have to take at least one local bus if I'm below 34th street to get to the BxM1 or BxM2.

 

I will say that the ridership on both lines on the weekends can fluctuate, BUT both lines are well used and the BxM18 only runs on the weekdays, but it too is well used overall. Saturday night I took the BxM1 going to Riverdale on one trip from the city and it was pretty full and then later on that night I took the BxM2 coming back to Riverdale and it too was crowded.

 

 

From my observations the Bx10 runs rather frequent as I can often see two of them come while I wait for a BxM1 or BxM2. I don't see the Bx7 that much, but it seems like to me the Bx10 could be spaced better if anything and maybe the Bx7 could use more service and have dispatchers on the line to see what is going on. However I don't know how you could conclude that our express bus service is redundant because it is far from redundant. You know very well that many of our residents in Riverdale are older and some are disabled and many of them do use the express bus, so our service is most certainly needed and used.

 

As for your bang for the buck analysis, you still avoided the question of how expensive is the LIRR and MNRR to operate? That does not excuse the fact that I've rode on empty LIRR trains where I was the ONLY person in the entire car for the entire ride, so I don't know what type of folks they're supposed to be moving. Of course they aren't always like that but the point is that just like with the express bus, LIRR and MNRR have ridership that fluctuates. The reason folks love to harp on the express bus is because they're more visible than the LIRR and MNRR both literally and figurately speaking so if they see an empty bus pass by they automatically assume that they generally run empty. I used to think that also until I actually became an express bus rider.

['89 Liberty MCI]

What you said about the Bx10 being frequent is absolutely incorrect. That happened because the line suffers from bunching and they happened to bunch up when you saw them go by. Stand on a corner and observe the local buses going by for at least an hour and then you can talk to me. It only operates every 5-6 minutes during the AM rush hour, going from Bainbridge Ave to 263 Street.

 

Half the buses terminate at Broadway when they come back from 263 after having completed a northbound trip. During the AM rush they only operate every 10 minutes from 263 to both Broadway and Bainbridge (those buses follow the full route, none of them terminate at Broadway). They are packed and people barely fit on them. Three express buses will pass you before a local shows up at those hours. I only witnessed it for about 20 years. Or 10 since they started severely cutting service rather recently.

 

PM rush the only way they operate less than 10 minutes apart is if you are looking at the buses that get turned short at Broadway. Middays, evenings, and weekends they operate every 15 minutes or more. I am better off walking 20 minutes to the subway, up and down hills and staircases, than waiting if I see a local go by. And again, some people, especially the children, do not have the dough to pay for the express bus. And all that glitters is not gold, while some things that do not glitter are gold or have the potential to be gold. And the children are the future.

 

And if you wanted to go south of 34 you could have used the IRT West Side and the Bx10. Only problem is, again, the Bx10 operates every 15 minutes during off-hours. The only way it would be good in my book is if it operated every 8 minutes off-hours (including weekends), 5-6 rush hours, BOTH rushes, BOTH directions. At the very least those should be the headways west of Broadway. Areas east of Broadway are good as far as transit goes, plus the Bx1/2 parallel the Bx10.

 

What you told me about 34 Street just reinforces my point about the redundancy of express bus service, because the express buses are redundant as far as frequency goes, and some people actually want to go where the express buses do not go! That is where the subway comes in! Too bad the Bx10 has such poor service! If they reduced express bus service, perhaps they would have an easier time adding some to the Bx10 and actually making it a good line! It is easier to get most people to use local/limited buses and subways because they [usually] give you more bang for the buck! Most people do not have this aversion to 'cheap' transportation that you have.

 

So the seniors seem to need the express bus. I do not particularly like the fact that you used that as justification, but I will go with it. They are people, they have needs just like we do. That is fine and good. If I am going to assume this is a solid contention, then my only response is that Riverdale is not for everybody and express buses are not for everybody. We can all agree to that. As far as Riverdale goes, I still think the express bus service is redundant, the local bus service is problematic, and once again, all that glitters is not gold. It ain't a commuter's neighborhood for the average commuter. I prefer neighborhoods that are. Peace.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What you said about the Bx10 being frequent is absolutely incorrect. That happened because the line suffers from bunching and they happened to bunch up when you saw them go by. Stand on a corner and observe the local buses going by for at least an hour and then you can talk to me. It only operates every 5-6 minutes during the AM rush hour, going from Bainbridge Ave to 263 Street.

 

Half the buses terminate at Broadway when they come back from 263 after having completed a northbound trip. During the AM rush they only operate every 10 minutes from 263 to both Broadway and Bainbridge (those buses follow the full route, none of them terminate at Broadway). They are packed and people barely fit on them. Three express buses will pass you before a local shows up at those hours. I only witnessed it for about 20 years. Or 10 since they started severely cutting service rather recently.

 

PM rush the only way they operate less than 10 minutes apart is if you are looking at the buses that get turned short at Broadway. Middays, evenings, and weekends they operate every 15 minutes or more. I am better off walking 20 minutes to the subway, up and down hills and staircases, than waiting if I see a local go by. And again, some people, especially the children, do not have the dough to pay for the express bus. And all that glitters is not gold, while some things that do not glitter are gold or have the potential to be gold. And the children are the future.

 

And if you wanted to go south of 34 you could have used the IRT West Side and the Bx10. Only problem is, again, the Bx10 operates every 15 minutes during off-hours. The only way it would be good in my book is if it operated every 8 minutes off-hours (including weekends), 5-6 rush hours, BOTH rushes, BOTH directions. At the very least those should be the headways west of Broadway. Areas east of Broadway are good as far as transit goes, plus the Bx1/2 parallel the Bx10.

 

What you told me about 34 Street just reinforces my point about the redundancy of express bus service, because the express buses are redundant as far as frequency goes, and some people actually want to go where the express buses do not go! That is where the subway comes in! Too bad the Bx10 has such poor service! If they reduced express bus service, perhaps they would have an easier time adding some to the Bx10 and actually making it a good line! It is easier to get most people to use local/limited buses and subways because they [usually] give you more bang for the buck! Most people do not have this aversion to 'cheap' transportation that you have.

 

So the seniors seem to need the express bus. I do not particularly like the fact that you used that as justification, but I will go with it. They are people, they have needs just like we do. That is fine and good. If I am going to assume this is a solid contention, then my only response is that Riverdale is not for everybody and express buses are not for everybody. We can all agree to that. As far as Riverdale goes, I still think the express bus service is redundant, the local bus service is problematic, and once again, all that glitters is not gold. It ain't a commuter's neighborhood for the average commuter. I prefer neighborhoods that are. Peace.

 

If service is that terrible why not either add artics to the Bx10 or have dispatchers along the line to control the bunching?

[qjtransitmaster]

If service is that terrible why not either add artics to the Bx10 or have dispatchers along the line to control the bunching?

 

then why don't you ask the mta that question nuff said

[Via Garibaldi 8]

then why don't you ask the mta that question nuff said

 

I'm not the one who brought up the Bx10. Nuff said.

[checkmatechamp13]

In Brooklyn though it is common to see folks walking even in the more suburban like areas. Same thing in the other boroughs, though in certain parts of Queens that isn't true of all areas, particularly ones further out, but on Staten Island folks care more about what type of car they drive than their house and believe me there is a stigma associated with walking. A relative of mine was so bad that she would jump in the car just to go to the store a few blocks away. In all of the years that I've known her she took a "walk" once on Staten Island and said she'd never do it again. LOL

 

 

First of all, you mention both the local bus and subway, and most of the areas along the subway lines don't have any sort of issue against walking.

 

But that aside, that still doesn't prove your point about walking being looked down upon by local bus riders. When I walk alongside a bus route (for instance, along Richmond Avenue, Victory Blvd, or South Avenue), I highly doubt the people on the bus are looking down at me (figuratively speaking of course).

 

Now, drivers in vehicles may look down on me (or they could care less. I'm content on foot and they're content in their car), but bus riders definitely don't.

 

From a driver's point of view, whatever "stigma" there is against local buses, there's probably the same "stigma" against walking (if anything, there would be slightly more of a stigma against local buses because you're more dependant on it. With walking, you could be doing it for leisure, or for something where you can't be bothered to pull the car out of the driveway)

 

Hence why more Fatasses live there and ugly smoking women ewww. some or em on the express bus are just plain perverted without discreation. one showed me a home porn clip

 

Why would she show it to you in the first place? I doubt a fat woman's going to go around shouting "Who wants to see my porn clip".

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First of all, you mention both the local bus and subway, and most of the areas along the subway lines don't have any sort of issue against walking.

 

But that aside, that still doesn't prove your point about walking being looked down upon by local bus riders. When I walk alongside a bus route (for instance, along Richmond Avenue, Victory Blvd, or South Avenue), I highly doubt the people on the bus are looking down at me (figuratively speaking of course).

 

Now, drivers in vehicles may look down on me (or they could care less. I'm content on foot and they're content in their car), but bus riders definitely don't.

 

From a driver's point of view, whatever "stigma" there is against local buses, there's probably the same "stigma" against walking (if anything, there would be slightly more of a stigma against local buses because you're more dependant on it. With walking, you could be doing it for leisure, or for something where you can't be bothered to pull the car out of the driveway

 

First of all Staten Island doesn't have subways so that's a moot point. Second just because a person takes the bus doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have a stigma against walking. I've seen plenty of folks on Staten Island jump into a car from the local or express bus and vice versa. And there is no "may". There are folks on Staten Island especially that look down on folks that walk even more so. I think you seem to be overlooking the fact that I specifically stated that this is the case in select areas NOT overall.