Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Metro CSW]

13 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

Is 2029 still the estimated date for finishing Phase 2?

Maybe but still wouldn't hold on to that thought just yet. If they start the construction on time, it's almost possible. Don't be surprised if it's an early 2030s date.

Quote

Once construction is underway on Phase 2 of the Second Avenue Subway, we’ve said it is expected to take approximately seven to eight years to complete, The actual timeline will be determined after bids are received from design-build companies that include commitments for both cost and duration. --the MTA’s head of construction, Jamie Torres-Springer.

 

[slantfan4281]

14 minutes ago, Metro CSW said:

Maybe but still wouldn't hold on to that thought just yet. If they start the construction on time, it's almost possible. Don't be surprised if it's an early 2030s date.

 

Is construction still planned to start at the end of this year?

It's disappointing it's going to take that long - tunnel construction is only five blocks of cut-and-cover between 105th and 110th (plus the 106th stop), and the curve from 120th to 125th. Maybe they can try to at least get service to 116th.

[Metro CSW]

11 minutes ago, slantfan4281 said:

Is construction still planned to start at the end of this year?

It's disappointing it's going to take that long - tunnel construction is only five blocks of cut-and-cover between 105th and 110th (plus the 106th stop), and the curve from 120th to 125th. Maybe they can try to at least get service to 116th.

If no delays, yes. Disappointing? No, not really. I feel like if anybody thinks it's really disappointing it'd pretty much stems from impatience and nothing else.

 

Safety protocols and procedures are priority before the compilation of the progress and its an extensive process. I don't think it'd be smart to rush it. At least get service up to 116th? Bruh..... that really defeats the propose of breaking the line into phases. I would think if they promise the endpoint to be 125th, let them complete it fully and safely in a timely matter. I don't think any of us could do it better. If you can, by all means....

[slantfan4281]

24 minutes ago, Metro CSW said:

If no delays, yes. Disappointing? No, not really. I feel like if anybody thinks it's really disappointing it'd pretty much stems from impatience and nothing else.

 

Safety protocols and procedures are priority before the compilation of the progress and its an extensive process. I don't think it'd be smart to rush it. At least get service up to 116th? Bruh..... that really defeats the propose of breaking the line into phases. I would think if they promise the endpoint to be 125th, let them complete it fully and safely in a timely matter. I don't think any of us could do it better. If you can, by all means....

What I'm saying is if the segment to 116th can be completed by say, 2027, but getting to 125th isn't possible until 2030, if you can turn trains around at 116th there's no problem with getting service there a few years earlier. I'd imagine the majority of the time spent on construction is going to be the section curving to 125th and the complex there, since the station for 116th will just use the current tunnel, and cut-and-cover around 106th will take less time than TBMs with phase 1 will. 

[Wallyhorse]

Now it looks like (if they can find the money) they want to extend the SAS across 125:

As noted before, I would do it where there is a connection at St. Nicholas to the 8th Avenue line, most likely using the tracks in each direction between the local and express tracks north of 125 to north of 135 to connect.  This would allow for the SAS to go to to either upper Manhattan or the Concourse line (and give the SAS access to 207th and Concourse Yards) as well as in an emergency allow the and  to access the SAS to get back to 6th and 8th Avenue respectively. 

 

 

[Vulturious]

52 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

Now it looks like (if they can find the money) they want to extend the SAS across 125:

As noted before, I would do it where there is a connection at St. Nicholas to the 8th Avenue line, most likely using the tracks in each direction between the local and express tracks north of 125 to north of 135 to connect.  This would allow for the SAS to go to to either upper Manhattan or the Concourse line (and give the SAS access to 207th and Concourse Yards) as well as in an emergency allow the and  to access the SAS to get back to 6th and 8th Avenue respectively. 

Hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt they would ever bother with a track connection to CPW because of what they mentioned in their report here on page 25 https://future.mta.info/documents/20-YearNeedsAssessment_ComparativeEvaluation.pdf.

Quote

Second Avenue Subway West via St Nicholas Ave

• In further analyzing this alternative, significant operational problems were identified, especially related to capacity on the  lines. As a result, this alternative was not selected for analysis at this time.

I knew they probably wouldn't consider the connection, but I'm disappointed they decided to not take a further look into the analysis. Oh well, on the bright side, it looks like the MTA might actually be considering a crosstown 125 St seeing as there are incentives around this that even the MTA can't ignore. Personally, they should postpone Phase 3 for the time being and let the Crosstown-125 St extension be the new Phase 3.

[Wallyhorse]

18 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt they would ever bother with a track connection to CPW because of what they mentioned in their report here on page 25 https://future.mta.info/documents/20-YearNeedsAssessment_ComparativeEvaluation.pdf.

I knew they probably wouldn't consider the connection, but I'm disappointed they decided to not take a further look into the analysis. Oh well, on the bright side, it looks like the MTA might actually be considering a crosstown 125 St seeing as there are incentives around this that even the MTA can't ignore. Personally, they should postpone Phase 3 for the time being and let the Crosstown-125 St extension be the new Phase 3.

I would be looking at it, as the main purposes of such a connection to the 8th Avenue line from the SAS at 125/St. Nicholas would be (for at least now):

Giving the SAS line access to Concourse and 207th Street yards.

In an emergency, the and trains would be able to use such to get to the SAS and from there, go to 63rd/Lex and use that to eventually get back to their regular lines.  Such also opens up a ton of operational flexibility for G.O.'s and the line, and even more so on the if eventually as I think should be done, Phase 4 is extended into Brooklyn through a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that would run under the Transit Museum station (Court Street), possibly with a new stop south of the TM before joining the Fulton Street line using the as-present unused tracks/platforms at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, allowing the  to be the Fulton local to Euclid (extended late nights to Lefferts) with the and  both running express in Brooklyn. 

[CenSin]

22 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

On 10/6/2023 at 6:52 PM, Vulturious said:

Hate to break it to you, but I highly doubt they would ever bother with a track connection to CPW because of what they mentioned in their report here on page 25 https://future.mta.info/documents/20-YearNeedsAssessment_ComparativeEvaluation.pdf.

I knew they probably wouldn't consider the connection, but I'm disappointed they decided to not take a further look into the analysis. Oh well, on the bright side, it looks like the MTA might actually be considering a crosstown 125 St seeing as there are incentives around this that even the MTA can't ignore. Personally, they should postpone Phase 3 for the time being and let the Crosstown-125 St extension be the new Phase 3.

I would be looking at it, as the main purposes of such a connection to the 8th Avenue line from the SAS at 125/St. Nicholas would be (for at least now):

Giving the SAS line access to Concourse and 207th Street yards.

In an emergency, the and trains would be able to use such to get to the SAS and from there, go to 63rd/Lex and use that to eventually get back to their regular lines.  Such also opens up a ton of operational flexibility for G.O.'s and the line, and even more so on the if eventually as I think should be done, Phase 4 is extended into Brooklyn through a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that would run under the Transit Museum station (Court Street), possibly with a new stop south of the TM before joining the Fulton Street line using the as-present unused tracks/platforms at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, allowing the  to be the Fulton local to Euclid (extended late nights to Lefferts) with the and  both running express in Brooklyn. 

Prognosis doesn’t look good for your proposal:

On 10/4/2023 at 5:33 PM, TDL said:

Welp, the needs assessment comp evaluation is out. Not good news for RBB

 

https://future.mta.info/documents/20-YearNeedsAssessment_ComparativeEvaluation.pdf

Straight from the horse’s mouth (page 25 in the PDF, page 243 printed on the page):

Quote

Second Avenue Subway West via St Nicholas Ave

• In further analyzing this alternative, significant operational problems were identified, especially related to capacity on the lines. As a result, this alternative was not selected for analysis at this time.

[BreeddekalbL]

Lmao i proposed this years ago plus the fact is i wonder how are they gonna build the 125 and broadway station because of the geographic terrain 🤔

[Wallyhorse]

26 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Lmao i proposed this years ago plus the fact is i wonder how are they gonna build the 125 and broadway station because of the geographic terrain 🤔

My original idea for 125/Broadway-12th Avenue was to make that an elevated station, likely above the current  station and extending to 12th Avenue where Metro-North is supposed to be.  That might be the best way to do it.  You could do a mezzanine from the downtown  platform to reach such and stairs directly from the uptown platform.  

And it's very short-sighted not to look at a connection from the SAS to the 8th Avenue Line.  For now, it would be more about "future proofing" and allowing for in an emergency the and  being able to use the SAS if CPW is FUBAR (or for a G.O.) while having operational flexibility, including operating Yankee Stadium Special trains along the SAS to and from 161.  

[zacster]

So you want to put a station over an already high station?  And this is the "best way to do it"?  You're already too high from whatever it is you're smoking.

And they are NOT going to spend money on a 5-10 year project to connect it so they can do reroutes and Yankee specials.  I'll be amazed if they ever open anything past 125/Lex.

[Chris89292]

1 hour ago, zacster said:

So you want to put a station over an already high station?  And this is the "best way to do it"?  You're already too high from whatever it is you're smoking.

And they are NOT going to spend money on a 5-10 year project to connect it so they can do reroutes and Yankee specials.  I'll be amazed if they ever open anything past 125/Lex.

And let’s not forget the SAS is connected to the Broadway line, so it’s technically already a “back up” during emergencies, and the future  Fleet will head towards Coney Island if possible idk, once phase 4 finishes god know’s when, the  would eventually be connected to the  at the 2nd Avenue station

Edited October 10, 2023 by Chris89292

[Wallyhorse]

5 hours ago, zacster said:

So you want to put a station over an already high station?  And this is the "best way to do it"?  You're already too high from whatever it is you're smoking.

And they are NOT going to spend money on a 5-10 year project to connect it so they can do reroutes and Yankee specials.  I'll be amazed if they ever open anything past 125/Lex.

This is about future needs:

As CBTC takes over more of the system, eventually it is supposed to allow more capacity.  By the time this would be completed, it's quite possible there would be the capacity to have an SAS line operate on 8th Avenue (as noted, coming in and going out on the tracks between the local and express tracks in the six-track zone on the line).  It's quite possible by that point you could easily add an SAS line to the upper portion of 8th Avenue/Concourse. 

[ThatSubwayFan980]

On 10/10/2023 at 5:22 PM, Chris89292 said:

And let’s not forget the SAS is connected to the Broadway line, so it’s technically already a “back up” during emergencies, and the future  Fleet will head towards Coney Island if possible idk, once phase 4 finishes god know’s when, the  would eventually be connected to the  at the 2nd Avenue station

IDFK. The  is a upcoming thing coming up in the future. Won't matter if it connects to the  at 2nd Avenue or not.

[Trainmaster5]

I can’t believe that anyone in their right mind would actually believe that any of this would ever come to fruition. In case you haven’t noticed yet the NYCTA is dismantling infrastructure and has been doing so for years. Just count the number of stations, tracks and structures that exist today versus 1950 or so. I see posts relating to CBTC where people are talking about increased capacity but the  never promised that but only said that theoretically there could be increased capacity. The same thing goes with increased capacity and fleet expansion. Meanwhile they have told the public that they will run new equipment with fewer seats per car. Read between lines and that negates the need for real fleet expansion on a massive scale. The trick is to read everything  including between the lines . Reading comprehension. Basic stuff. My take. No personal offense to anyone. Don’t let blind optimism fool you.Carry on., 

[Kamen Rider]

21 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

In case you haven’t noticed yet the NYCTA is dismantling infrastructure and has been doing so for years. Just count the number of stations, tracks and structures that exist today versus 1950 or so. 

One of them, for the most part, was actually replaced. The Jamaica El with the Archer Subway.

the rest… well, 

 

I don’t know if you noticed, but my generation and younger, we like transit. We like having an environment. We would like to enjoy the long, happy lives many of your generation are living. My grandma turns 96 in a few months…

 

but that world we are supposed to be inheriting is… slowly becoming unattainable.

 

we can’t afford things your generation took for granted and then get mocked because we don’t have them. I am 35. A lot of economists say people my age and younger will never be able to afford a house of our own without inheriting it.

costs are high, wages don’t match them. 
 

if you want to find the problem with transit, with the city, with this country… with the world in general…

 

it’s that some people refuse to let people like me step up. To offer our voices.

no, it has to be all a bunch of 50-80 year olds, all out of touch.…

[Trainmaster5]

1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said:

One of them, for the most part, was actually replaced. The Jamaica El with the Archer Subway.

the rest… well, 

 

I don’t know if you noticed, but my generation and younger, we like transit. We like having an environment. We would like to enjoy the long, happy lives many of your generation are living. My grandma turns 96 in a few months…

 

but that world we are supposed to be inheriting is… slowly becoming unattainable.

 

we can’t afford things your generation took for granted and then get mocked because we don’t have them. I am 35. A lot of economists say people my age and younger will never be able to afford a house of our own without inheriting it.

costs are high, wages don’t match them. 
 

if you want to find the problem with transit, with the city, with this country… with the world in general…

 

it’s that some people refuse to let people like me step up. To offer our voices.

no, it has to be all a bunch of 50-80 year olds, all out of touch.…

I'm actually going to agree with you for the most part. The world you're supposed to be inheriting is becoming unattainable precisely because of the generation BEFORE mine and continued through mine. From inside and out I've seen some of the shenanigans perpetrated on an unsuspecting public in the housing, education and transit fields for the last FIVE decades. I've met with policy makers in Central Brooklyn, housing advocates, and for 30 years decision makers in the mass transit  aka  world. It's my personal opinion that many people in charge don't have a clue and/or don't give a damn. I've sat in City Council meetings and watched city-wide horse trading where " I'll back your project if you back mine " was seemingly the only criteria. Not whether the proposal was beneficial or not. Imagine sitting in a meeting discussing construction where I look around and realize that I'm the only one who actually works on a construction site. I happen to agree with you 100% when I look at wages, benefits and the cost of living in the NYC metro area compared to where my friends and relatives began and ended their working careers. Luckily by the age of 30 I'd already worked for Transit, NY Telephone, the Post Office, a community Corporation and finally back to Transit. My friends and relatives from parents to my generation all followed that same script. Good jobs and benefits. Mostly Civil servants. When I look back now it all started going downhill around 1980 or so. When I tell folks I had five weeks of vacation time and good benefits while working and afterward some younger people think I'm exaggerating . I'm a union supporter who (sadly) watched the politicos and union leadership seemingly get together and stymie the upward mobility of the following generations. Press releases from major agencies, amplified by politicians and corporations and most of the media seemed to create the false impression that your generation and the latter part of mine were overpaid. When some of the Transit folks who trained me and my peers told me about the CBTC and associated ATS IRT component it took me the length of the Joralemon St tube to call the idea BS. The inside joke was that it would probably be about 20 years to complete and the software would be outdated by then. Look how far they've progressed. Meanwhile my main beef is with these BS press releases from that are issued promising things that unrealistic at best, or blatantly lies. I'd love for you and your generation to reverse this 40 year decline , in my opinion.

For the most part the Archer is an underground stub of the Jamaica Ave El in my book. All that press at it's opening didn't mask the shortcomings of what the project should've been. These are just my opinions and people are free to agree with them or not. I happen to think that your generation has been screwed over royally. Sometimes it IS ABOUT THE BENJAMINS.

Carry on.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Trainmaster5

[TMC]

15 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

it’s that some people refuse to let people like me step up. To offer our voices.

no, it has to be all a bunch of 50-80 year olds, all out of touch.…

I think the issue is that most people are blind to the actual problems, and the executives in charge of transit, mostly in the Anglosphere don't really care about addressing them. They don't even care about running it right...

[Trainmaster5]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:07 PM, TMC said:

I think the issue is that most people are blind to the actual problems, and the executives in charge of transit, mostly in the Anglosphere don't really care about addressing them. They don't even care about running it right...

Gotta agree with you 100% there. A wise old timer told me years ago that the new program was “ blind them with BS “ and the public will eat it up. He was definitely right about that. I’m sure the people who know the system have either been sidelined or have left because they are disgusted with what’s happening. I vented to my mentor and his colleagues about certain things done in RTO and they pretty much agreed with me. My statement to them was that those people now in charge couldn’t run a Lionel train around a circular track without screwing things up. The whole agency seems to be run by consultants who screw things up and then move on to the next agency with no consequences. It then falls back onto the folks who were sidelined to correct the situation. IMO it’s not just NYCTA but MNRR and the LIRR. Meanwhile the public gets worked up about new equipment and the like but the underlying issues still exist. Press releases and such mean nothing to me, personally, because I remember the time before the 1968 “ Plan for Action “ was even proposed. Just felt like ranting. Excuse me if I offended anyone. BTW this so called congestion pricing is just another way to cut the state’s contribution to the  . My thoughts. Carry on.

[Trainmaster5]

7 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Gotta agree with you 100% there. A wise old timer told me years ago that the new program was “ blind them with BS “ and the public will eat it up. He was definitely right about that. I’m sure the people who know the system have either been sidelined or have left because they are disgusted with what’s happening. I vented to my mentor and his colleagues about certain things done in RTO and they pretty much agreed with me. My statement to them was that those people now in charge couldn’t run a Lionel train around a circular track without screwing things up. The whole agency seems to be run by consultants who screw things up and then move on to the next agency with no consequences. It then falls back onto the folks who were sidelined to correct the situation. IMO it’s not just NYCTA but MNRR and the LIRR. Meanwhile the public gets worked up about new equipment and the like but the underlying issues still exist. Press releases and such mean nothing to me, personally, because I remember the time before the 1968 “ Plan for Action “ was even proposed. Just felt like ranting. Excuse me if I offended anyone. BTW this so called congestion pricing is just another way to cut the state’s contribution to the  . My thoughts. Carry on.

Mods. If it’s more appropriate you can move this post to the Random Thoughts thread. Thank you.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

On 10/4/2023 at 2:54 PM, slantfan4281 said:

What I'm saying is if the segment to 116th can be completed by say, 2027, but getting to 125th isn't possible until 2030, if you can turn trains around at 116th there's no problem with getting service there a few years earlier. I'd imagine the majority of the time spent on construction is going to be the section curving to 125th and the complex there, since the station for 116th will just use the current tunnel, and cut-and-cover around 106th will take less time than TBMs with phase 1 will. 

My thoughts exactly, and this isn't unprecedented either. A great example would be today's  train branch of the original IRT subway where they opened what they could while more complex infill stations like deep underground 181 and 191 St opened later. They even constructed a temporary terminus at 221 St which didn't even last a year until the line was extended to Marble Hill.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

On 10/11/2023 at 10:36 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

I can’t believe that anyone in their right mind would actually believe that any of this would ever come to fruition. In case you haven’t noticed yet the NYCTA is dismantling infrastructure and has been doing so for years. Just count the number of stations, tracks and structures that exist today versus 1950 or so. I see posts relating to CBTC where people are talking about increased capacity but the  never promised that but only said that theoretically there could be increased capacity. The same thing goes with increased capacity and fleet expansion. Meanwhile they have told the public that they will run new equipment with fewer seats per car. Read between lines and that negates the need for real fleet expansion on a massive scale. The trick is to read everything  including between the lines . Reading comprehension. Basic stuff. My take. No personal offense to anyone. Don’t let blind optimism fool you.Carry on., 

Not saying the NYCTA or MTA is great and I agree a lot of these expansions won't come to fruition until there's major political reform. However, the era of the subway shrinking the system is long gone - there are no "els" remaining (all have been upgraded to subway standards), and the most recent demolition was the end of the Jamacia Line in Queens, which had a very direct subway replacement with the Archer Avenue . The last true shrinkage of the subway system was the demolition of the 3rd Av El, but at the time it was believed it would be replaced.

I think at this point, the MTA would not be able to get rid of any subway lines without HUGE public and political backlash. 

I think we're in an era where there is the political and public will to maintain the existing system and making small incremental changes and expansion, but there just isn't enough willpower for anything dramatic.

[Trainmaster5]

On 10/17/2023 at 10:22 PM, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

Not saying the NYCTA or MTA is great and I agree a lot of these expansions won't come to fruition until there's major political reform. However, the era of the subway shrinking the system is long gone - there are no "els" remaining (all have been upgraded to subway standards), and the most recent demolition was the end of the Jamacia Line in Queens, which had a very direct subway replacement with the Archer Avenue . The last true shrinkage of the subway system was the demolition of the 3rd Av El, but at the time it was believed it would be replaced.

I think at this point, the MTA would not be able to get rid of any subway lines without HUGE public and political backlash. 

I think we're in an era where there is the political and public will to maintain the existing system and making small incremental changes and expansion, but there just isn't enough willpower for anything dramatic.

I think we're not on the same page here. I'm not talking about eliminating subway lines.  What I'm focused on is the infrastructure part of the system. My classmates from the early eighties were taught that the most important part of subway operation, and rail traffic in general  is the infrastructure. That's what I'm interested in. Let me show a few examples. 

On the  and  lines between Grand Concourse and East 180th St we had a tower at Freeman St with an elaborate interlocking setup. When the Unionport/ East 180th St location was being modernized we ran G.O.s as follows. on weekends.  from New Lots (and later Flatbush) ran from the southern terminal to Freeman St and terminated. They then relayed to the middle track and reversed direction to the s/b local track loaded up and headed back downtown. Buses ran from Freeman to East 180th St. 3 stops. During this time  service ran between Bowling Green and 149th Concourse upper level and terminated. On a weekday if a  or  had a problem creating a blockage we'd use that same tower to run around the blockage n/b or s/b so we wouldn't have to bypass too many stops and inconvenience all the riders. Guess what ? The bean counters said the cost wasn't justified to maintain the tower and switches  so it was eliminated. Never mind that there are G.O.s now where bus service now has to run from 149th St-3rd Avenue to East 180th instead. So now Surface guys get paid the OT.

Next obvious example is entering Wallyhorse territory. Let's say there's a blockage n/b at Whitehall St. The obvious move (to me at least) to get the riders to Manhattan and then to turn those trains back to Brooklyn would be to run them north to Chambers, discharge , and relay them back southward. Problem is that I heard those relay tracks and assorted switches and signals are gone. Bean counters said it saves money.

Now I have my eyes on Crescent St on the Jamaica line. Instead of running G.O. service between there and Parsons-Archer I can see the bean counters calling for the removal of the turn back option and running bus service between Broadway Junction and Parsons. It's always about the money with these folks. My warning is " don't sleep on them " My opinion. No offense to anyone. Carry on.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

3 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I think we're not on the same page here. I'm not talking about eliminating subway lines.  What I'm focused on is the infrastructure part of the system. My classmates from the early eighties were taught that the most important part of subway operation, and rail traffic in general  is the infrastructure. That's what I'm interested in. Let me show a few examples. 

On the  and  lines between Grand Concourse and East 180th St we had a tower at Freeman St with an elaborate interlocking setup. When the Unionport/ East 180th St location was being modernized we ran G.O.s as follows. on weekends.  from New Lots (and later Flatbush) ran from the southern terminal to Freeman St and terminated. They then relayed to the middle track and reversed direction to the s/b local track loaded up and headed back downtown. Buses ran from Freeman to East 180th St. 3 stops. During this time  service ran between Bowling Green and 149th Concourse upper level and terminated. On a weekday if a  or  had a problem creating a blockage we'd use that same tower to run around the blockage n/b or s/b so we wouldn't have to bypass too many stops and inconvenience all the riders. Guess what ? The bean counters said the cost wasn't justified to maintain the tower and switches  so it was eliminated. Never mind that there are G.O.s now where bus service now has to run from 149th St-3rd Avenue to East 180th instead. So now Surface guys get paid the OT.

Next obvious example is entering Wallyhorse territory. Let's say there's a blockage n/b at Whitehall St. The obvious move (to me at least) to get the riders to Manhattan and then to turn those trains back to Brooklyn would be to run them north to Chambers, discharge , and relay them back southward. Problem is that I heard those relay tracks and assorted switches and signals are gone. Bean counters said it saves money.

Now I have my eyes on Crescent St on the Jamaica line. Instead of running G.O. service between there and Parsons-Archer I can see the bean counters calling for the removal of the turn back option and running bus service between Broadway Junction and Parsons. It's always about the money with these folks. My warning is " don't sleep on them " My opinion. No offense to anyone. Carry on.

I see. Thanks for a clarification and this is an interesting point ig I haven't seriously thought about before, though I can think of a few examples where tracks or switches were removed, and I was like why. Not an expert but a track or switch that's mostly inactive (not used in revenue service) I would think would be p easy and cheap to maintain. I think I've also heard South of Brooklyn Bridge on the  they eliminated at least one of the "storage tracks". Another one that's much older I've never understood was why they completely severed the Nassau Line's connection to the Manhattan Bridge when it seems like it'd offer good redundancy if there's a problem on Broadway.

On a similar note, there are relatively "small" projects the MTA could pursue that would dramatically improve service/increase capacity but don't. For instance, adding tail tracks past 8th av on the  would dramatically increase the maximum tph on the most crowded subway line (according to MTA's own data), yet it's not even a project I've ever seen considered. Also doing smtg to try and fix Jamacia Center terminal on the , be it adding tail tracks with a crossover, relocating the existing crossover, or extending the line.

[slantfan4281]

4 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I see. Thanks for a clarification and this is an interesting point ig I haven't seriously thought about before, though I can think of a few examples where tracks or switches were removed, and I was like why. Not an expert but a track or switch that's mostly inactive (not used in revenue service) I would think would be p easy and cheap to maintain. I think I've also heard South of Brooklyn Bridge on the  they eliminated at least one of the "storage tracks". Another one that's much older I've never understood was why they completely severed the Nassau Line's connection to the Manhattan Bridge when it seems like it'd offer good redundancy if there's a problem on Broadway.

On a similar note, there are relatively "small" projects the MTA could pursue that would dramatically improve service/increase capacity but don't. For instance, adding tail tracks past 8th av on the  would dramatically increase the maximum tph on the most crowded subway line (according to MTA's own data), yet it's not even a project I've ever seen considered. Also doing smtg to try and fix Jamacia Center terminal on the , be it adding tail tracks with a crossover, relocating the existing crossover, or extending the line.

I doubt they'll consider tail tracks for the ... the only terminal improvements I could see them doing is reconfiguring Atlantic to 3 or 4 tracks with a center track to terminate trains if needed, and that only works if the OOS platform is still usable.

For the  they'll just send whatever they can't fit into JC to 179th. But an extension via the LIRR ROW like planned in the Program for Action would be nice.