Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BreeddekalbL]

I only make some ideas to see what you think and i figured doing this would make improvements to it? and now that someone reminds me the purpose of each route like when i tinkered with the b42 and the b68 now that i look at it i figured i making a propsal could make an improvement but it doesn't this was just an idea.

[B35 via Church]

Err Extend M31 over M57's terminal err nope Not my idea originally it was to have the M12 and another West street route to replace west end ave giving that street service frequent enough to render M57 redundant and duplicative to 2 routes M12 and M31 But M31 is too unreliable for that plan to work but you are right on how MTA may side with my plan over BreedDekaldL's plan which isn't needed.

lol, yeah aight man...

 

If what I said (supposedly) wasn't your idea originally, then how could you say I might be right that the MTA would side with your plan.....

Think, grasshopper, think.....

 

• Your plan is not necessarily better, and in fact, it's worse, because you're creating another long, winding, unreliable route.

Exactly....

 

Saying what I said about his idea to "boost" M31 service & eliminating the 57... and the MTA possibly siding with that suggestion isn't a compliment, nor does it mean it's better......

 

As for QJT, agreed...

 

.....and glorify train service as much as possible.

If you're gonna bitch about getting stuck in traffic, Why are you taking express buses, just use Metro North !

(sarcasm... whatever it was that he said to you about that)

[checkmatechamp13]

Ohh stop being a grammer nazi it is an online forum most people don't give a crap.

 

There's a difference between having a few typos, and being practically illegible. I shouldn't have to translate your posts (and by "translate", I mean make it so there's proper grammar and punctuation) as much as I do. That's one of the reasons people don't take you seriously: If you post one super-long paragraph with very few words capitalized, people are going to look at it as gibberish, and automatically be more likely to criticize it.

Edited May 25, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[Gorgor]

There is a bus lane on 57th Street (I believe from 8th Avenue to 2nd Avenue), but the M31 and M57 get delayed in the bus lane due to express buses and right turns.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There is a bus lane on 57th Street (I believe from 8th Avenue to 2nd Avenue), but the M31 and M57 get delayed in the bus lane due to express buses and right turns.

The express buses are only an issue during the rush. Outside of that there's the damn yellow taxis and cars...  Lots of big shots like you with their gas guzzlers clogging up the street.  I don't know why you folks can't leave the car at home.  You're in Manhattan!

[BreeddekalbL]

also isn't the northern area of the m31  the area of people who have political connections and if there is a screw up or the mta does something wrong they "threaten" them with their political friends 

[qjtransitmaster]

The express buses are only an issue during the rush. Outside of that there's the damn yellow taxis and cars...  Lots of big shots like you with their gas guzzlers clogging up the street.  I don't know why you folks can't leave the car at home.  You're in Manhattan!

Not gonna lie we both can agree on this 1000% I wonder the same thing.

 

also isn't the northern area of the m31  the area of people who have political connections and if there is a screw up or the mta does something wrong they "threaten" them with their political friends 

You do realize M31 gets good use right? If they had so much power the X90 would still be with us or be converted into a LTD stop line.

 

I only make some ideas to see what you think and i figured doing this would make improvements to it? and now that someone reminds me the purpose of each route like when i tinkered with the b42 and the b68 now that i look at it i figured i making a propsal could make an improvement but it doesn't this was just an idea.

Err I guess I understand that too.

[Gorgor]

Not gonna lie we both can agree on this 1000% I wonder the same thing.

 

 

You do realize M31 gets good use right? If they had so much power the X90 would still be with us or be converted into a LTD stop line.

 

Err I guess I understand that too.

 

With the addition of the taxi stand at 70th Street (in addition to the one at 79th, and the vans at 85th), the York Avenue to Water Street crowd was given alternatives.  They just happened to leave out those commuting one extra stop to the World Financial Center.

 

And I still don't know why you're saying the X90 should've been converted into a limited; all that does is cut the amount of money the MTA gets in half from the lower fare.

 

M31 service has been getting reduced over the years.  Buses are scheduled to run only once every 10 minutes on weekends, which can easily become 15-20 minutes due to extreme unreliability, so it's no wonder why people prefer to take taxis than wait for a huge unknown amount of time.  I also remember when buses used to run every 3 minutes during rush hour; now they run every 5.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

With the addition of the taxi stand at 70th Street (in addition to the one at 79th, and the vans at 85th), the York Avenue to Water Street crowd was given alternatives.  They just happened to leave out those commuting one extra stop to the World Financial Center.

 

And I still don't know why you're saying the X90 should've been converted into a limited; all that does is cut the amount of money the MTA gets in half from the lower fare.

 

M31 service has been getting reduced over the years.  Buses are scheduled to run only once every 10 minutes on weekends, which can easily become 15-20 minutes due to extreme unreliability, so it's no wonder why people prefer to take taxis than wait for a huge unknown amount of time.  I also remember when buses used to run every 3 minutes during rush hour; now they run every 5.

Oh boy... Imagine that... 5 minutes for a bus... You sound so ridiculous and spoiled. I use the M50 on weekends and it runs every 30 minutes.  

[Gorgor]

Oh boy... Imagine that... 5 minutes for a bus... You sound so ridiculous and spoiled. I use the M50 on weekends and it runs every 30 minutes.  

 

Not complaining about 5 minute headways during rush hour at all.  Just pointing out that service has been cut over the years.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Gorgor

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Not complaining about 5 minute headways during rush hour at all. Just pointing out that service has been cut over the years.

I will say I've noticed that as well. I'm pretty sure everyone on here had cuts to their service, not only you though.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not complaining about 5 minute headways during rush hour at all.  Just pointing out that service has been cut over the years.

Well yeah of course.  You think they're going to keep running buses every 3 minutes when people hop in cabs the way you say they do up there? Here instead of hopping in cabs, we wait for our buses and then write in and demand better service.  That's why we keep our buses and you guys lose yours.  In all fairness however, I have Bus Time so quite frankly it doesn't bother me to hang out and relax somewhere until my bus is there then walk to the stop when my bus is there. When Bus Time comes to Manhattan, man am I gonna love that.  It's really convenient here that's for sure.  

 

I used to hop in cabs in the city too until I realize that you usually don't get anywhere any faster. The AC SUCKS in the summer and all you're left with is a hot long sweaty ride that you're stuck paying $20.00 for in the end. 

Edited May 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Gorgor]

Well yeah of course.  You think they're going to keep running buses every 3 minutes when people hop in cabs the way you say they do up there? Here instead of hopping in cabs, we wait for our buses and then write in and demand better service.  That's why we keep our buses and you guys lose yours.  In all fairness however, I have Bus Time so quite frankly it doesn't bother me to hang out and relax somewhere until my bus is there then walk to the stop when my bus is there. When Bus Time comes to Manhattan, man am I gonna love that.  It's really convenient here that's for sure.  

 

I used to hop in cabs in the city too until I realize that you usually don't get anywhere any faster. The AC SUCKS in the summer and all you're left with is a hot long sweaty ride that you're stuck paying $20.00 for in the end. 

 

People hop in cabs because service is cut, thus decreasing ridership even more, although it's mainly on weekends or midday when people use cabs as alternates because service is scheduled to run only once every 8-10 minutes, which can mean up to 15 minutes due to delays.  It's not the fact that we think buses don't run frequently enough, it's that buses get delayed and then bunch so badly that it's impossible to know when the next bus will even come. 

 

I don't know what kind of cabs you've been in but I've only rarely had problems with the AC, in which case I just opened the window and got a nice breeze. 

[qjtransitmaster]

People hop in cabs because service is cut, thus decreasing ridership even more, although it's mainly on weekends or midday when people use cabs as alternates because service is scheduled to run only once every 8-10 minutes, which can mean up to 15 minutes due to delays.  It's not the fact that we think buses don't run frequently enough, it's that buses get delayed and then bunch so badly that it's impossible to know when the next bus will even come. 

 

I don't know what kind of cabs you've been in but I've only rarely had problems with the AC, in which case I just opened the window and got a nice breeze. 

True people use cabs beacause of service cuts but you people do need to grow some BALLZ and fight the cuts better I mean seriously you lost service on several useful lines and still many other communities get away with keeping redundant services that are barely used you guys in yorkville need more moxie.

 

Well yeah of course.  You think they're going to keep running buses every 3 minutes when people hop in cabs the way you say they do up there? Here instead of hopping in cabs, we wait for our buses and then write in and demand better service.  That's why we keep our buses and you guys lose yours.  In all fairness however, I have Bus Time so quite frankly it doesn't bother me to hang out and relax somewhere until my bus is there then walk to the stop when my bus is there. When Bus Time comes to Manhattan, man am I gonna love that.  It's really convenient here that's for sure.  

 

I used to hop in cabs in the city too until I realize that you usually don't get anywhere any faster. The AC SUCKS in the summer and all you're left with is a hot long sweaty ride that you're stuck paying $20.00 for in the end. 

Well you have a point cause taxis are not that much faster than buses however they come more often and people don't want to wait which is the logic behind gorgor's argument.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well you have a point cause taxis are not that much faster than buses however they come more often and people don't want to wait which is the logic behind gorgor's argument.

Big deal... The only difference is that they get to wait and pay for the wait in traffic in the taxi... I know because I've been one of those suckers.  I have friends that like to jump in taxi's when we're bar hopping and sometimes I'm shocked by how much the price is for such a short distance.  I usually don't even pay unless I'm riding alone, but on average I find myself paying $17.00 - 20.00 w/tip per trip.

[Threxx]

People hop in cabs because service is cut, thus decreasing ridership even more, although it's mainly on weekends or midday when people use cabs as alternates because service is scheduled to run only once every 8-10 minutes, which can mean up to 15 minutes due to delays.  It's not the fact that we think buses don't run frequently enough, it's that buses get delayed and then bunch so badly that it's impossible to know when the next bus will even come. 

 

I don't know what kind of cabs you've been in but I've only rarely had problems with the AC, in which case I just opened the window and got a nice breeze. 

 

No, people hop in cabs because they're rich and they have the money and they'd rather not use the "bad" local bus...

 

Don't try to vilify the to prove a point... we've had our service cut in Bed-Stuy and we didn't start "hopping in cabs"... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, people hop in cabs because they're rich and they have the money and they'd rather not use the "bad" local bus...

 

Don't try to vilify the to prove a point... we've had our service cut in Bed-Stuy and we didn't start "hopping in cabs"... 

There are indeed people that don't like to drive but just take taxis everywhere and it is indeed an expensive ordeal considering the short distances. I'm not going to lie... I use to spend $200 - 300 a month in car service (not that many rides either) because I didn't want to take the local bus.  Sometimes you just don't feel like waiting (i.e. smashed and tired) and other times you just want a ride to yourself.  The great advantage is you get where you're going quickly (usually take them late at night or when traffic isn't bad) and you don't have to worry about parking or some jerk messing up your car.

[Q43LTD]

Again with this tinkering of the M31 the 57? How many times do I have to say this. They both serve their purpose on their respective sides of Manhattan

[Gorgor]

People hop in cabs because of service cuts?  The M31 hasn't been significantly cut; people have always taken cabs instead of the bus because unreliability has always been an issue.  It's just that as the MTA spaces M31 buses farther apart in the schedule, the wait for buses increases so that people would rather spend the money than potentially wait 15+ minutes for a bus.

 

And if you're referring to people taking cabs instead because of the X90 cut then the whole rich argument is invalid because cab fare is only $7 to Water Street, and I highly doubt spending an extra dollar matters. 

 

(And just saying, the X90 fare was exactly the same as every other express bus, so saying that we were rich snobs because we spent the extra money instead of taking a subway/bus combo commute makes every other express bus rider a rich snob because they don't want to take a subway/bus combo.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

People hop in cabs because of service cuts?  The M31 hasn't been significantly cut; people have always taken cabs instead of the bus because unreliability has always been an issue.  It's just that as the MTA spaces M31 buses farther apart in the schedule, the wait for buses increases so that people would rather spend the money than potentially wait 15+ minutes for a bus.

 

And if you're referring to people taking cabs instead because of the X90 cut then the whole rich argument is invalid because cab fare is only $7 to Water Street, and I highly doubt spending an extra dollar matters. 

 

(And just saying, the X90 fare was exactly the same as every other express bus, so saying that we were rich snobs because we spent the extra money instead of taking a subway/bus combo commute makes every other express bus rider a rich snob because they don't want to take a subway/bus combo.)

And that's exactly what we're viewed as...   That's why people call for express bus cuts... Most express bus riders are either middle class or upper middle class. Meanwhile upper middle class folks are on MetroNorth for the most part with the average earner bringing in $100,000+ a year and people are fine with the rails and they're not "rich snobs".  For whatever reason the buses aren't viewed the same as the rails are.  Can never understand it for the life of me.  

 

What irks me more is that when I do use the subway in the city over the local bus, the ride isn't much faster these days.  Trains just crawl.  I jumped off of the BxM2 the other day because the traffic was murder and onto the .  I'm thinking great the train is here right away.  We crawled all the way.  Same thing happens when I use the from the BxM2... 

Edited May 26, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

And that's exactly what we're viewed as...   That's why people call for express bus cuts... Most express bus riders are either middle class or upper middle class. Meanwhile upper middle class folks are on MetroNorth for the most part with the average earner bringing in $100,000+ a year and people are fine with the rails and they're not "rich snobs".  For whatever reason the buses aren't viewed the same as the rails are.  Can never understand it for the life of me.  

 

What irks me more is that when I do use the subway in the city over the local bus, the ride isn't much faster these days.  Trains just crawl.  I jumped off of the BxM2 the other day because the traffic was murder and onto the .  I'm thinking great the train is here right away.  We crawled all the way.  Same thing happens when I use the from the BxM2... 

You are really really unlucky. Metro-north is the only practical way to get to Manhattan from Westchester and CT and dutchess/Putnam counties. Ohh and buses for the most part are important in areas with very poor rail service. If you look back at history when electric railways and train lines were replaced by buses ridership on transit took 50% or more drops in ridership some cases ridership nosedived by 80%!

[Gorgor]

And that's exactly what we're viewed as...   That's why people call for express bus cuts... Most express bus riders are either middle class or upper middle class. Meanwhile upper middle class folks are on MetroNorth for the most part with the average earner bringing in $100,000+ a year and people are fine with the rails and they're not "rich snobs".  For whatever reason the buses aren't viewed the same as the rails are.  Can never understand it for the life of me.  

 

What irks me more is that when I do use the subway in the city over the local bus, the ride isn't much faster these days.  Trains just crawl.  I jumped off of the BxM2 the other day because the traffic was murder and onto the .  I'm thinking great the train is here right away.  We crawled all the way.  Same thing happens when I use the from the BxM2... 

 

Because express buses cost more to operate than they make.  MetroNorth and subway lines make nice profits.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Because express buses cost more to operate than they make.  MetroNorth and subway lines make nice profits.

I said BUSES meaning local buses too, not just express buses... It's not just the cost...

[qjtransitmaster]

I said BUSES meaning local buses too, not just express buses... It's not just the cost...

local buses should be treated better but then again historically they are the reason why transit ridership in the US took a huge nosedive as people simply rejected bustitution. However many NYCT local buses do turn a profit M14 being one of em.

[Gorgor]

I forget where that data is located (if anyone has a link then please post it), but if I remember correctly, every single Manhattan crosstown route and certain major north-south routes (M15, M101, might be others) turn a profit.  The rest of the routes are there for coverage and to serve those with disabilities who can't access the non-ADA compliant stations.

 

The thing is that those local buses, for the most part, have significantly higher ridership compared to express buses.  Local buses you can get on or off anyone along the route, but once you get on an express bus you can't get off until you leave the borough.  Besides for the few outliers, the most unused local buses cost less to operate than the most used express buses.

 

Riders per express bus

Riders per local bus (doesn't have all local buses)