Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BreeddekalbL]

you do realize how empty M5 is south of houston right? especially on weekends what makes you think M6 would do better?

 

cause the thing is the m5 is too long

[FamousNYLover]

Ok I forgot buses can't use it northbound between 42nd and 63rd. 63rd and 53rd buses can't use it northbound. Or are you talking about southbound?

 

Are you saying between 63rd and 53rd street buses CAN'T use FDR southbound? I am talking about southbound so confirm kay.

 

 

Ok I forgot buses can't use it northbound between 42nd and 63rd. 63rd and 53rd buses can't use it northbound. Or are you talking about southbound?

 

Are you saying between 63rd and 53rd street buses CAN'T use FDR southbound? I am talking about southbound so confirm kay.

 

Don't you remember the male driver on Chinatown buses ignore the height restriction during temporality 60th St overpass entrance to northbound, and had bus crush in half I think.

[B35 via Church]

....do you realize how old that post is? you wasted energy there.

Lol.....

 

I wouldn't split the M5 at 59th Street.

It should run to Herald Square and Penn Station, like the M4 does, and let the M6 run it's old route.

You're basically creating the M10 all over again....

 

since this thread went into the oblivion  i figured i'd dig it up so we don't create another one 

 

how about splitting the M5 and m6 into 2 like it used to be 

im gonna say split the m5 and m6 at 59th street

On the M5 (in terms of usage), Columbus Circle is a midpoint/transition point for southbound buses, but 72nd st is a midpoint/transition point for northbound buses.... This is why I would have brought the M6 back & extended it to 72nd st/Broadway (while leaving the M5 to terminate over along W. Houston st)..... But now that Mayor Moneybags Europeanized certain parts of Broadway w/ the pedestrian malls, the question is - along which avenue would the southbound M6 travel down......

 

Basically what I'm saying is, it wouldn't be all too beneficial to have M5 riders xferring at 59th to the M6 if they need service south of Columbus Circle.... I mean, you didn't catch much of anyone xferring from M5's to M6's south of Houston back when the M5 ended along Houston because the M5 still served the "meat" of Midtown Manhattan.....

 

While I'd also like for the M6 to come back, we just have the reality of the situation (thanks Bloomberg) & bid the route adieu.....

 

I've always wondered why they picked Houston as a terminal. It just always seemed an odd place to terminate a bus.

 

In any case, that's probably one of the most-discussed topics on this forum.

1- Likely a combination of the (busy) Broadway-Lafayette area & Washington Sq. Village patrons....

 

What I found odd was.... It was advertised on the schedule that B'way/Houston was the terminal, but the actual terminal was over there along Houston at LaGuardia pl (which is a good 4 or 5 blocks away from Broadway)..... LaGuardia pl is midway b/w Broadway & 6th av... Come to think of it, once upon a time, M5's did use to layover along broadway, just before the right turn on Houston (that was only the last dropoff stop though).....

 

When Houston st/LaGuardia place became the first pickup stop and the last dropoff stop, I don't quite remember.... My guess is sometime in the late 2000's....

 

2- Same thing I said when I initially saw his post.

[checkmatechamp13]

   that is what the subway is for. YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS RIGHT?

 

For starters, what about Riverside Drive?

 

Second of all, what about people carrying bags, or the elderly, or people going short distances where it's not worth going up/down stairs? 

 

Of course, I realize I'm talking to a wall.

 

Likely a combination of the (busy) Broadway-Lafayette area & Washington Sq. Village patrons....

 

What I found odd was.... It was advertised on the schedule that B'way/Houston was the terminal, but the actual terminal was over there along Houston at LaGuardia pl (which is a good 4 or 5 blocks away from Broadway)..... LaGuardia pl is midway b/w Broadway & 6th av... Come to think of it, once upon a time, M5's did use to layover along broadway, just before the right turn on Houston (that was only the last dropoff stop though).....

 

When Houston st/LaGuardia place became the first pickup stop and the last dropoff stop, I don't quite remember.... My guess is sometime in the late 2000's....

 

I remember the Manhattan bus map itself used to advertise it as LaGuardia Place. I never really paid attention to the schedule itself.

 

In any case, that makes sense with the location of the terminal.

Edited April 30, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[B35 via Church]

...It was advertised on the schedule that B'way/Houston was the terminal

.....

I remember the Manhattan bus map itself used to advertise it as LaGuardia Place.

Yup, That's the discrepancy.

 

The question I actually have is, when was Broadway/Houston a full time terminal (last dropoff & first pickup) on the M5....

[Q43LTD]

The back of the map said Houston St and West Broadway.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Lol.....

 

You're basically creating the M10 all over again....

 

 

Well the M5 is like two M10's length wise and trip time wise.

[B35 via Church]

The back of the map said Houston St and West Broadway.

West Broadway starts at Houston on the south end.... The M5 terminated along Houston on the north end....

In other words, West Broadway turns into LaGuardia pl at Houston.....

 

Anyway, I think checkmate's talking about where the terminal "box" was placed on the map.... That much the MTA had right...

 

Well the M5 is like two M10's length wise and trip time wise.

Yeah, today's M5....

 

What I was getting at is, for what you're saying (about M5's ending at penn), they may as well move the M10 back to penn instead...

(and have the M5 reverted to its old terminal along Houston; instead of having M5's end at penn....)

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

West Broadway starts at Houston on the south end.... The M5 terminated along Houston on the north end....

In other words, West Broadway turns into LaGuardia pl at Houston.....

 

Anyway, I think checkmate's talking about where the terminal "box" was placed on the map.... That much the MTA had right...

 

Yeah, today's M5....

 

What I was getting at is, for what you're saying (about M5's ending at penn), they may as well move the M10 back to penn instead...

(and have the M5 reverted to its old terminal along Houston; instead of having M5's end at penn....)

Oh. That wouldn't be a bad idea, if only the MTA would realize it.

[Cait Sith]

I wouldn't split the M5 at 59th Street. It should run to Herald Square and Penn Station, like the M4 does, and let the M6 run it's old route.

 

The 7th Avenue-23rd Street routing sucked so hard ever since the inception of those damn pedestrian plazas, it caused some rather unusual bunching and serviced sucked from the get-go due to the immense traffic along 7th Avenue. I personally prefer its pre-ped plaza routing as it went straight down Broadway.

 

One also seems to forget about the M20, you'd have to do a compromise with that in which that M20 extension initally replaced the M6 and M9 portions of the line. And them Battery Park folk will not let go of South Ferry access with the M20 that easily...they got their M9 access back with even better subway options and bus connections, but they wont let go of their M20 extension that easily...

 

you do realize how empty M5 is south of houston right? especially on weekends what makes you think M6 would do better?

 

Um, it's not always empty. You do get some fully seated crowds every now and then. Weekends, you get a lot of tourists, especially in the Canal Street & City Hall area....

Edited May 1, 2013 by Cait Sith

[Metro CSW]

Um, it's not always empty. You do get some fully seated crowds every now and then. Weekends, you get a lot of tourists, especially in the Canal Street & City Hall area....

Thank you.....

 

Not everybody likes to use the subway every now and then (As Cait said here), ya know.... Buses in Manhattan are convenient, of course....

[checkmatechamp13]

One also seems to forget about the M20, you'd have to do a compromise with that in which that M20 extension initally replaced the M6 and M9 portions of the line. And them Battery Park folk will not let go of South Ferry access with the M20 that easily...they got their M9 access back with even better subway options and bus connections, but they wont let go of their M20 extension that easily...

 

Nah, the M20 didn't have anything to do with the M6. It was solely to replace the M9 as the BPC-South Ferry connection.

[Cait Sith]

Nah, the M20 didn't have anything to do with the M6. It was solely to replace the M9 as the BPC-South Ferry connection.

 

It took over the portion of service between Central Park South & 23rd Street on its own now. And because the M9 was no longer serving the ferry terminal and Battery Park at the time and the M6 was eliminated, they left a hole for South Ferry folks, hence why they extended the M20 to South Ferry in the first place. This is moreso about folks taking the bus from 7th Avenue.

 

Keep in mind that the Southbound M6 did serve corresponding stops along the M20 until 23rd Street. Even though the M5 had a major role in its demise, the M20 also had its role in it as well and it was well laid out by the Battery Park community.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Cait Sith

[B35 via Church]

It took over the portion of service between Central Park South & 23rd Street on its own now. And because the M9 was no longer serving the ferry terminal and Battery Park at the time and the M6 was eliminated, they left a hole for South Ferry folks, hence why they extended the M20 to South Ferry in the first place. This is moreso about folks taking the bus from 7th Avenue.

 

Keep in mind that the Southbound M6 did serve corresponding stops along the M20 until 23rd Street. Even though the M5 had a major role in its demise, the M20 also had its role in it as well and it was well laid out by the Battery Park community.

I have to disagree that the M6 cut & M20 extension was moreso about 7th av....

 

As far as the MTA's reasoning, he's right... The M20 extension to S. Ferry had to do with the M9 truncation to City Hall.... The M5 extension to S. Ferry had to do with the discontinuation of the M6..... In other words, they got rid of the M6 to force people onto M5's.... They cut the M9 back to have it end at city hall & completely revoked M15 city hall service (being that a branch of the M15 also ended at S. Ferry)... The compromise for BPC folks for losing M9 service (at the time) was to extend the M20 to S. Ferry.....

 

The M20 extension to S. Ferry didn't have anything directly to do with why they got rid of the M6.....

 

What you're bringing up was an(other) adverse affect of the M6 cut.....

Edited May 2, 2013 by B35 via Church

[Cait Sith]

I have to disagree that the M6 cut & M20 extension was moreso about 7th av....

 

As far as the MTA's reasoning, he's right... The M20 extension to S. Ferry had to do with the M9 truncation to City Hall.... The M5 extension to S. Ferry had to do with the discontinuation of the M6..... In other words, they got rid of the M6 to force people onto M5's.... They cut the M9 back to have it end at city hall & completely revoked M15 city hall service (being that a branch of the M15 also ended at S. Ferry)... The compromise for BPC folks for losing M9 service (at the time) was to extend the M20 to S. Ferry.....

 

The M20 extension to S. Ferry didn't have anything directly to do with why they got rid of the M6.....

 

What you're bringing up was an(other) adverse affect of the M6 cut.....

I wasn't saying that the M20 had a vast stake in the M6's demise(I probably should have worded myself a bit better), that was mostly in part of the M5. I was speaking in terms of the folks that uses that side to get to South Ferry or points south by bus and from what folks over at Battery Park City had laid out from their meetings over the last couple of years. The M20 pretty much absorbed those riders from the 7th Avenue side which is what I was getting at.

 

What was said was that folks wanted a route that followed the pre-existing M6 infrastructure down 7th Avenue to South Ferry to accommodate not only the regular riders, but the folks that couldn't head to the subways and others along with the Subway crowding. It was a little more than just the M9 compromise, the demand for CP South to South Ferry via 7th Avenue service was actually there and was pushed. This was said by folks that actually used the M20 to get to their apartments and condos down there from both points of the line.

 

Yeah, the M5 extension and M9 to City Hall is what mainly set off the extension, but there was a little bit more to it.

 

-------------

 

On a side note, during one of those meetings, I remember when some folks bitched about the extension and wanted the M9 back via Water Street. Not sure why but I was sure as hell for it when I lived in the Lower East Side at the time lol.

 

Edited May 2, 2013 by Cait Sith

[checkmatechamp13]

It took over the portion of service between Central Park South & 23rd Street on its own now. And because the M9 was no longer serving the ferry terminal and Battery Park at the time and the M6 was eliminated, they left a hole for South Ferry folks, hence why they extended the M20 to South Ferry in the first place. This is moreso about folks taking the bus from 7th Avenue.

 

Keep in mind that the Southbound M6 did serve corresponding stops along the M20 until 23rd Street. Even though the M5 had a major role in its demise, the M20 also had its role in it as well and it was well laid out by the Battery Park community.

 

The thing is that the M6 was only on 7th Avenue between the time of the pedestrian plazas and the time when it was combined with the M5. I don't think that would've been long enough to really establish a solid ridership base, especially since it had to take a longer route down Broadway. (Of course, north of Times Square had M6 service, but that's a relatively short distance).

 

In other words, while extending the M20 might've resulted in 7th Avenue maintaining its direct service to South Ferry (versus having to make their way over to the M5), that was just a side benefit of the combination.

 

On a side note, is there any particular reason BPC riders wanted to maintain access to South Ferry? I agree it was definitely a good idea to maintain that connection, but was it for general access to office buildings, or the connection to the subway lines or what? (I don't think SI residents would've had much to do with it) Or was it a combination of the three?

Edited May 2, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[Cait Sith]

The thing is that the M6 was only on 7th Avenue between the time of the pedestrian plazas and the time when it was combined with the M5. I don't think that would've been long enough to really establish a solid ridership base.

 

Exactly, and apparently from what was said, the 7th Avenue routing garnered a bit more ridership than the Broadway route pattern it once took and this is all according to the folks at those meetings. And that's where folks spoke out on it because they didn't want to lose that 7th Avenue service to South Ferry because of the subway crowding conditions that people complained about!

 

When you put it together, the M6 and M20 are somewhat the same in regards to serving South Ferry.

[B35 via Church]

I was speaking in terms of the folks that uses that side to get to South Ferry or points south by bus and from what folks over at Battery Park City had laid out from their meetings over the last couple of years.

So since we're speaking from two different perspectives, there's no dispute then... Lol.....

 

Don't know with certainty what perspective checkmate was speaking from, but I got the sense it was from the MTA's perspective (which had nothing to do with 7th av directly) as to why they made those changes.....

 

Speaking of those LES changes, I don't remember (off-top anyway) there ever being a discussion on here (or anywhere else for the matter) regarding the removal of the M15 from city hall to make way for SBS.... smh @ that, but anyway, Although the M9 to city hall caught on & loomed beneficial, the (then) M15 city hall branch weren't lightly used either..... Not for nothin, but ever since the M15 was removed from city hall, I did notice a spike in usage on the M103 from the first 3 NB stops alone (city hall area/park row, worth/park row, & that stop just short of the manhattan bridge.. bayard IIRC).....

 

 

On a side note, is there any particular reason BPC riders wanted to maintain access to South Ferry?

I agree it was definitely a good idea to maintain that connection, but was it for general access to office buildings, or the connection to the subway lines or what? (I don't think SI residents would've had much to do with it) Or was it a combination of the three?

Quite sure the subway connection is a reason, but it also has to do with general access to the area around water (st) b/w fulton st & whitehall (which includes south st seaport).... Thing is though, the downtown coNNection buses done siphoned BPC folks from taking M20's like that in that direction, which is one reason you see M20's as empty as they are towards the ferry (sad to say)..... Guess I'll say it's a good thing the MTA kept that connection - b/c if they were more keen to what's going on w/ private services, they could have just left the M20 at that terminal over there by 1st pl. (of course, backlash would have ensued, but still).....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Exactly, and apparently from what was said, the 7th Avenue routing garnered a bit more ridership than the Broadway route pattern it once took and this is all according to the folks at those meetings. And that's where folks spoke out on it because they didn't want to lose that 7th Avenue service to South Ferry because of the subway crowding conditions that people complained about!

 

When you put it together, the M6 and M20 are somewhat the same in regards to serving South Ferry.

I used to use the M6 rather regularly either in Chelsea or below 14th street for whatever reason so I follow exactly what you're saying.  Once that pedestrian plaza came about I think it really made the M6 feel slower especially coming down 23rd and 7th and coming over to Park Avenue South.    Nevertheless, there was indeed a void once the killed that line and I think there still is a void.  

[Cait Sith]

So since we're speaking from two different perspectives, there's no dispute then... Lol.....

 

Don't know with certainty what perspective checkmate was speaking from, but I got the sense it was from the MTA's perspective (which had nothing to do with 7th av directly) as to why they made those changes.....

 

Speaking of those LES changes, I don't remember (off-top anyway) there ever being a discussion on here (or anywhere else for the matter) regarding the removal of the M15 from city hall to make way for SBS.... smh @ that, but anyway, Although the M9 to city hall caught on & loomed beneficial, the (then) M15 city hall branch weren't lightly used either..... Not for nothin, but ever since the M15 was removed from city hall, I did notice a spike in usage on the M103 from the first 3 NB stops alone (city hall area/park row, worth/park row, & that stop just short of the manhattan bridge.. bayard IIRC).....

 

 

Quite sure the subway connection is a reason, but it also has to do with general access to the area around water (st) b/w fulton st & whitehall (which includes south st seaport).... Thing is though, the downtown coNNection buses done siphoned BPC folks from taking M20's like that in that direction, which is one reason you see M20's as empty as they are towards the ferry (sad to say)..... Guess I'll say it's a good thing the MTA kept that connection - b/c if they were more keen to what's going on w/ private services, they could have just left the M20 at that terminal over there by 1st pl. (of course, backlash would have ensued, but still).....

Trust me, I was all over those meetings once the M9 reroute was proposed. I had also went a few times to propose an M15 short turn to St. James Place or Chatham Square because as you can clearly tell, that Pike-Division/Cherry short turn is essentially useless on the passenger side of things and it still confuses the absolute hell out of riders. Chatham Square is a much better area if they want to see decent ridership along that part of Manhattan.

 

The M9 to me was a much better alternative to the M15 because it was just as quick, but the M9s came more frequently. I always used it to go to South Ferry and till this very day, LES riders would rather take the M9 down to South Ferry instead of the infrequent M15.

 

There was a discussion about the M15 elimination from City Hall at those meetings, but some of the folks surprisingly agreed to the compromise that was the M9. The one piss-poor argument they managed to relay was that the M103 shadowed the M15 along 3rd Avenue....what those f**ks didn't mention was that 3rd Avenue is traffic both ways UNTIL 24th Street...and stupidly enough, a majority of folks bought into that....

 

There was also a push to have increased service on the M22 prior to the M9 compromise, but that fell through and saw a slight decrease instead.

 

One of the more discussed topics was about the M20 and the extension, what was also being proposed by the community was an M22 extension from Battery Park City to South Ferry. It gained some steam but then got rejected with the M20 being the ultimate compromise. While that was being discussed, there were a good amount of regular riders and elderly riders from the Upper East Side at those meetings saying they also supported the extension because it kept them away from the crowded subways and how they couldnt access certain stations along the line and the BPC folk agreed to that as some had the same problems as well. But many had fought to retain both M6 and M9 service but to no avail.

 

(All of this was discussed during the first round of proposals for 2010)

 

When Select Bus Service debuted on the M15, people around the LES were furious at how infrequent service on both segments on the M15 were and wanted the M9 back via Water Street. SBS complicated things more around that area at that time.

 

(I just realized I went on a rant about something that was somewhat irrelevant to the discussion, my bad lol)

 

As for the connection to South Ferry, with the M9 eliminated from that area at the time, they wanted both Subway and Bus access because the M22 was not enough. It would take the M22 more time to get to said connections than it would have with the M20 extension.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Cait Sith

[FamousNYLover]

The 7th Avenue-23rd Street routing sucked so hard ever since the inception of those damn pedestrian plazas, it caused some rather unusual bunching and serviced sucked from the get-go due to the immense traffic along 7th Avenue. I personally prefer its pre-ped plaza routing as it went straight down Broadway.

 

One also seems to forget about the M20, you'd have to do a compromise with that in which that M20 extension initally replaced the M6 and M9 portions of the line. And them Battery Park folk will not let go of South Ferry access with the M20 that easily...they got their M9 access back with even better subway options and bus connections, but they wont let go of their M20 extension that easily...

 

 

Um, it's not always empty. You do get some fully seated crowds every now and then. Weekends, you get a lot of tourists, especially in the Canal Street & City Hall area....

 

 

The 7th Avenue-23rd Street routing sucked so hard ever since the inception of those damn pedestrian plazas, it caused some rather unusual bunching and serviced sucked from the get-go due to the immense traffic along 7th Avenue. I personally prefer its pre-ped plaza routing as it went straight down Broadway.

 

One also seems to forget about the M20, you'd have to do a compromise with that in which that M20 extension initally replaced the M6 and M9 portions of the line. And them Battery Park folk will not let go of South Ferry access with the M20 that easily...they got their M9 access back with even better subway options and bus connections, but they wont let go of their M20 extension that easily...

 

 

Um, it's not always empty. You do get some fully seated crowds every now and then. Weekends, you get a lot of tourists, especially in the Canal Street & City Hall area....

 

Also, Battery Park City resident also used free shuttle buses, Battery Park City Shuttle bus and sometimes it could be standees only during weekday rush hour between BPC and South Ferry, as alternate to M20, M5 bus.

[checkmatechamp13]

Don't know with certainty what perspective checkmate was speaking from, but I got the sense it was from the MTA's perspective (which had nothing to do with 7th av directly) as to why they made those changes.....

 

Yeah, it was from the MTA's perspective.

 

Quite sure the subway connection is a reason, but it also has to do with general access to the area around water (st) b/w fulton st & whitehall (which includes south st seaport).... Thing is though, the downtown coNNection buses done siphoned BPC folks from taking M20's like that in that direction, which is one reason you see M20's as empty as they are towards the ferry (sad to say)..... Guess I'll say it's a good thing the MTA kept that connection - b/c if they were more keen to what's going on w/ private services, they could have just left the M20 at that terminal over there by 1st pl. (of course, backlash would have ensued, but still).....

 

Makes sense.

 

Trust me, I was all over those meetings once the M9 reroute was proposed. I had also went a few times to propose an M15 short turn to St. James Place or Chatham Square because as you can clearly tell, that Pike-Division/Cherry short turn is essentially useless on the passenger side of things and it still confuses the absolute hell out of riders. Chatham Square is a much better area if they want to see decent ridership along that part of Manhattan.

 

On a side note, when did they extend those trips to Cherry Street (instead of going to Pike/Division). I think it would've made more sense to just send them to City Hall. (Unless those Pike/Division trips were former City Hall trips)

 

I guess to bring up another proposal, I was thinking about City College, and how I'm going to commute there. There's no subway line directly at the college (you either have to go down the hill to the train or across the park to the ), and for some reason, they have two shuttles connecting to the IND (125th & 145th), but none to the train (though I think there used to be one). Does anybody think there would be demand from CCNY students going to the  if the M104 were extended a few blocks up to say, 138th Street & Convent (turnaround via St. Nicholas Terrace & 135th Street)

 

Mysterious2Train came up with an idea that involved the Bx33 being extended to 137th Street on the , but it looked a little too roundabout (because of the park over there).

 

Depending on how many days a week I'll be going there and what type of MetroCard I'll buy, I'd likely end up either walking from the or taking the M100/101 from the IND, but I'm just curious as to what the demand would be like. (Out of curiosity, did many CCNY students use the M18 when it existed?)

[Cait Sith]

On a side note, when did they extend those trips to Cherry Street (instead of going to Pike/Division). I think it would've made more sense to just send them to City Hall. (Unless those Pike/Division trips were former City Hall trips)

 

Here's the thing that caused another set of confusion, those buses ended at Madison Street and always did since the 2010 cuts. To add onto that, they DON'T pick up/drop off people at Cherry Street....I don't know why they just dont program to say "PIKE ST-MADISON ST" because that's where they primarily pick up and drop off....

 

The Pike-Division/Cherry trips were former City Hall trips with a few of the City Hall LTDs becoming South Ferry LTDs. It's why I proposed to have them short turn at either St. James Place or Chatham Square because that Pike-Division/Cherry short turn causes 8 different kinds of confusion...

Edited May 2, 2013 by Cait Sith

[B35 via Church]

Also, Battery Park City resident also used free shuttle buses, Battery Park City Shuttle bus and sometimes it could be standees only during weekday rush hour between BPC and South Ferry, as alternate to M20, M5 bus.

Yeah, the "Downtown CoNNection" buses.... already brought that up....

 

What also hinders M20 usage a bit is that, quite frankly, many patrons of BPC use cabs to get around manhattan..... The ppl. that work at/around WFC are mainly taking express buses, making their way to PATH, or taking cabs (the yellow cabs or the black lincoln town cars).... The M20 & M22 see very little usage in BPC out of those people compared to the aforementioned methods of travel..... the shuttle buses are used moreover than the M20/22...... I will say though, during school let in/out hours, the M22 definitely gets decent usage in BPC.....

 

 

 

I guess to bring up another proposal, I was thinking about City College, and how I'm going to commute there. There's no subway line directly at the college (you either have to go down the hill to the train or across the park to the ), and for some reason, they have two shuttles connecting to the IND (125th & 145th), but none to the train (though I think there used to be one).

 

Does anybody think there would be demand from CCNY students going to the  if the M104 were extended a few blocks up to say, 138th Street & Convent (turnaround via St. Nicholas Terrace & 135th Street)

 

Mysterious2Train came up with an idea that involved the Bx33 being extended to 137th Street on the , but it looked a little too roundabout (because of the park over there).

 

Depending on how many days a week I'll be going there and what type of MetroCard I'll buy, I'd likely end up either walking from the or taking the M100/101 from the IND, but I'm just curious as to what the demand would be like. (Out of curiosity, did many CCNY students use the M18 when it existed?)

Word of advice.... don't do that walk up st. nicholas park on a daily basis.. Doing that shit everyday for 'x' amt. of years will take '2x' out of your life....lol.... What I did when I had an internship there was take the to the , instead of the straight from church to 135th (service via CPW local was another deterrent).... Like the first week of the program, I did the to the thing @ 59th & walked down from 145th to the campus, but I eventually got sick of doing the walk from 145th down Convent.....

 

I don't know how things currently are (since it's been over a decade since I went there), but I can see why they would decide to cut the shuttles to the ... Everyone would cut through that little park over there by the subway entrance & hike up 138th anyway (myself included) - Even with the buses waiting there (since I wasn't a CCNY student per se, I didn't think I was allowed on).... Now I don't know how well the 125th buses were used, but the 145th buses got *eeehhhh* usage from what I remember seeing... What I can tell you is that you did see a noticable amt. of students waiting for the M100/101 along Amsterdam, moreso than students taking any of the shuttle buses.....

 

As far as M18 usage, nah... Only people that you noticed waiting for M18's were residents - and that usage was minute also..... If any student did take it, it was your occasional straggler or two.. or three.... Hell, you would see more students cuttin through st. nicholas park & waiting for M3's over waiting for M18's (which says enough).....

 

To sum it up, there was a LOT of walking goin down & around CCNY (after coming off their respective method of travel to get there, of course).... Maybe more students are utilizing the shuttles overall now, but their usage wasn't great at all when I interned there.... Subway-wise, I'd say more students took the 7th av local to get there, over the 6th & 8th av lines.... Bus-wise, definitely the M100/101 got the most usage out of students (not to say that it was all that high, just the highest out of the public bus options), then the M3, then the M18...... I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more CCNY students that utilized Bx19's & did the walk down convent (or amsterdam), over the amt. of students that utilized the M18.... usage on the M4/M5 from CCNY students was just as bad as that of the M18....

 

As for the M104..... while subtle, I always thought that it should make that same turn the M60 does (120th) en route to the old Amsterdam depot - Instead of serving that stint north of columbia univ. & 125th st & 125th b/w broadway & amsterdam av...... Anyway, as far as extending 104's up to CCNY, the problem is the 104 wouldn't do those students any good, since they're not coming from the part of manhattan that the 104 serves.... Usage on that route dies out around 116th st (1)/Columbia univ.; it only runs up to 129th for layover purposes.... I'd go as far as to say that the 104 is shunned in Harlem & having it serve CCNY won't help it, unfortunately....

 

- fin.

[checkmatechamp13]

Here's the thing that caused another set of confusion, those buses ended at Madison Street and always did since the 2010 cuts. To add onto that, they DON'T pick up/drop off people at Cherry Street....I don't know why they just dont program to say "PIKE ST-MADISON ST" because that's where they primarily pick up and drop off....

 

The Pike-Division/Cherry trips were former City Hall trips with a few of the City Hall LTDs becoming South Ferry LTDs. It's why I proposed to have them short turn at either St. James Place or Chatham Square because that Pike-Division/Cherry short turn causes 8 different kinds of confusion...

 

So then nothing ever ended at Pike/Division, then? It was advertised as Pike/Cherry, when it was really Pike/Madison. Wow, that's confusing. (But what was the story on the weekends, then? I see short-turns, but there weren't any City Hall trips on the weekends)

 

On a side note, I'm checking the M15 SBS schedule, and I see some short-turns at Houston (southbound) and 14th (northbound). Do those buses actually start/end at those locations, or is it by Pike Street as well?

 

And yeah, that definitely makes sense to end at Chatham Square. I mean, I don't think it would be unreasonable to send them back to City Hall either. I understand the M9 & M103 cover that general area, but still.

 

Out of curiosity, they don't check the buses when they pass through the checkpoints on Park Row, do they?

 

To sum it up, there was a LOT of walking goin down & around CCNY (after coming off their respective method of travel to get there, of course).... Maybe more students are utilizing the shuttles overall now, but their usage wasn't great at all when I interned there.... Subway-wise, I'd say more students took the 7th av local to get there, over the 6th & 8th av lines.... Bus-wise, definitely the M100/101 got the most usage out of students (not to say that it was all that high, just the highest out of the public bus options), then the M3, then the M18...... I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were more CCNY students that utilized Bx19's & did the walk down convent (or amsterdam), over the amt. of students that utilized the M18.... usage on the M4/M5 from CCNY students was just as bad as that of the M18....

 

As for the M104..... while subtle, I always thought that it should make that same turn the M60 does (120th) en route to the old Amsterdam depot - Instead of serving that stint north of columbia univ. & 125th st & 125th b/w broadway & amsterdam av...... Anyway, as far as extending 104's up to CCNY, the problem is the 104 wouldn't do those students any good, since they're not coming from the part of manhattan that the 104 serves.... Usage on that route dies out around 116th st (1)/Columbia univ.; it only runs up to 129th for layover purposes.... I'd go as far as to say that the 104 is shunned in Harlem & having it serve CCNY won't help it, unfortunately....

 

- fin.

 

Yeah, the first time I went there, I got off at 125th/St. Nick and walked (but going back, I took the shuttle to 145th), and the second time, I walked uphill from the like you said.

 

On a side note, SMH at the boundary fudging that's going up with that area. Apparently some people consider it the UWS, even though at the absolute most, it goes up to 125th (if you consider Morningside Heights a subsection of the UWS). Well, it was only a matter of time....

 

And I assume usage on the M11 & Bx33 (from CCNY students) was close to nothing as well, right?'

 

Now that I think about it, if there weren't any shuttle buses, the M104 could go all the way to 145th Street on the IND, which might be a little stronger terminal. It just seems a little "unbalanced" for lack of a better term to have nothing connecting to the , but 3 options (M100/101 or two shuttle buses) to reach the IND. Of course, if there wasn't that hill, this would be a non-issue, since most of them walk it out from the anyway.