Manhattan Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Cait Sith]

So then nothing ever ended at Pike/Division, then? It was advertised as Pike/Cherry, when it was really Pike/Madison. Wow, that's confusing. (But what was the story on the weekends, then? I see short-turns, but there weren't any City Hall trips on the weekends)

 

On a side note, I'm checking the M15 SBS schedule, and I see some short-turns at Houston (southbound) and 14th (northbound). Do those buses actually start/end at those locations, or is it by Pike Street as well?

 

And yeah, that definitely makes sense to end at Chatham Square. I mean, I don't think it would be unreasonable to send them back to City Hall either. I understand the M9 & M103 cover that general area, but still.

 

Out of curiosity, they don't check the buses when they pass through the checkpoints on Park Row, do they?

 

The short turns are in place for the weekends as a reduction of local service to South Ferry. They're trying to get folks crammed into that SBS. The SBSs that short-turn at Houston start on 1st Avenue/1st Street and Houston. I actually forgot about the Northbound short turns nor did I know about a 14th Street short turn. There used to be a few that ended at 96th but I guess those are gone.

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, the first time I went there, I got off at 125th/St. Nick and walked (but going back, I took the shuttle to 145th), and the second time, I walked uphill from the like you said.

 

On a side note, SMH at the boundary fudging that's going up with that area. Apparently some people consider it the UWS, even though at the absolute most, it goes up to 125th (if you consider Morningside Heights a subsection of the UWS). Well, it was only a matter of time....

 

And I assume usage on the M11 & Bx33 (from CCNY students) was close to nothing as well, right?'

 

Now that I think about it, if there weren't any shuttle buses, the M104 could go all the way to 145th Street on the IND, which might be a little stronger terminal. It just seems a little "unbalanced" for lack of a better term to have nothing connecting to the , but 3 options (M100/101 or two shuttle buses) to reach the IND. Of course, if there wasn't that hill, this would be a non-issue, since most of them walk it out from the anyway.

What, over there by the Grant houses (125th st ) you mean? I don't know of anyone that considers that area the UWS; it's always been considered Harlem (by the locals of the area, I mean) as far and as long as I can remember..... If you're talking about over by Columbia, then yeah, ppl. still call that as being in the UWS....

 

CCNY student usage of the Bx33 I never realized/knew about (to be honest), although I can't imagine it being noticable enough (not even to the level of those that utilized the M3).... Extending Bx33's to Broadway (via Mysterious' routing or w/e) would cut down the # of folks hiking up st nicholas park & cut down the folks that are walking down from IND 145th st (then again, the latter depends on how many people now are using the 145th st shuttles)... It (the 33 extension) wouldn't do much of anything for the students that walk up from off the though....

 

CCNY student usage of the M11 I'd say was just as negligible as their uses of the M4, 5, & the 18.....

 

As for the M104 not running deeper into Harlem, well they're catering to passenger demand (the UWS folks)..... combine that w/ the fact that folks in Harlem don't want the UWS like that (and the area around lincoln center & columbus circle as well), and there you go....

Aside from the M100/101 along Amsterdam, what also doesn't help the justification for a 104 extension to 145th is the fact that you have the 11 along amsterdam on up to 135th (with CCNY basically being right there)... I think had it not been for 3333 broadway, they'd have the 11 simply continue up to 145th & then turn off to end inside riverbank.... Now if the M100 didn't exist, who knows where the M104 would've ended up terminating on the north end....

Edited May 4, 2013 by B35 via Church

[checkmatechamp13]

What, over there by the Grant houses (125th st ) you mean? I don't know of anyone that considers that area the UWS; it's always been considered Harlem (by the locals of the area, I mean) as far and as long as I can remember..... If you're talking about over by Columbia, then yeah, ppl. still call that as being in the UWS....

 

CCNY student usage of the Bx33 I never realized/knew about (to be honest), although I can't imagine it being noticable enough (not even to the level of those that utilized the M3).... Extending Bx33's to Broadway (via Mysterious' routing or w/e) would cut down the # of folks hiking up st nicholas park & cut down the folks that are walking down from IND 145th st (then again, the latter depends on how many people now are using the 145th st shuttles)... It (the 33 extension) wouldn't do much of anything for the students that walk up from off the though....

 

CCNY student usage of the M11 I'd say was just as negligible as their uses of the M4, 5, & the 18.....

 

As for the M104 not running deeper into Harlem, well they're catering to passenger demand (the UWS folks)..... combine that w/ the fact that folks in Harlem don't want the UWS like that (and the area around lincoln center & columbus circle as well), and there you go....

Aside from the M100/101 along Amsterdam, what also doesn't help the justification for a 104 extension to 145th is the fact that you have the 11 along amsterdam on up to 135th (with CCNY basically being right there)... I think had it not been for 3333 broadway, they'd have the 11 simply continue up to 145th & then turn off to end inside riverbank.... Now if the M100 didn't exist, who knows where the M104 would've ended up terminating on the north end....

 

Yeah, I was referring to the area by Columbia.

 

With his routing, I forgot whether he had it going up to 145th and back, or just to 141st, so thanks for posting that up. (Obviously 141st is quicker, but 145th has the subway connection)

 

With the M104, I was thinking purely in terms of connecting CCNY to the subway lines in the area, as an alternative to extending the Bx33. (Otherwise, I'd tend to agree about the M11 being sufficient to connect to the UWS) The advantage of the M104 is that it's more straightforward, while the advantage of the Bx33 is that there might actually be some students who currently take Bx33s who would benefit from the extension.

 

Of course, the problem with either one is that the 145th Street shuttle would reduce some of the benefit of connecting to the 145th Street IND, while the fact that the students would tend to walk up anyway from the would reduce the benefit even further, so the ridership along either of those extensions would be questionable.

 

BTW, when I took the shuttle, I think almost all the seats were full, but it was a little van. This was between say, 8:00 & 8:30PM.

Edited May 6, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[B35 via Church]

Yeah, I was referring to the area by Columbia.

 

With his routing, I forgot whether he had it going up to 145th and back, or just to 141st, so thanks for posting that up. (Obviously 141st is quicker, but 145th has the subway connection)

 

With the M104, I was thinking purely in terms of connecting CCNY to the subway lines in the area, as an alternative to extending the Bx33. (Otherwise, I'd tend to agree about the M11 being sufficient to connect to the UWS) The advantage of the M104 is that it's more straightforward, while the advantage of the Bx33 is that there might actually be some students who currently take Bx33s who would benefit from the extension.

 

Of course, the problem with either one is that the 145th Street shuttle would reduce some of the benefit of connecting to the 145th Street IND, while the fact that the students would tend to walk up anyway from the would reduce the benefit even further, so the ridership along either of those extensions would be questionable.

 

BTW, when I took the shuttle, I think almost all the seats were full, but it was a little van. This was between say, 8:00 & 8:30PM.

Linking the illustration of his Bx33.... Yeah, sure, No prollem...

 

With what you were saying about the 104, I figured as such....

 

Hmm, so they got vans now... Good to know... They really cut back then, b/c when I had that internship, they were using mini-buses....

(I'm guessing they canned the minibuses to get vans so that overall service can be increased... not to say that they couldn't increase service w/ the mini-buses, but it would cost more, compared to running more service w/ regular vans..... I bring up (cutting down on) costs b/c they discontinued providing service to 137th & resorted to using vans instead of mini-buses to 125th & 145.... I'm guessing because I don't know how (in)frequent service was then, nor how (in)frequent it is now....)

Edited May 6, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

why not extend M8 to battery park city via west side hwy then increased riders allows weekend service to be restored.

[Cait Sith]

why not extend M8 to battery park city via west side hwy then increased riders allows weekend service to be restored.

Because you cant stop on the friggin highway....

 

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[Q43LTD]

why not extend M8 to battery park city via west side hwy then increased riders allows weekend service to be restored.

I would rather restore weekend service.

[qjtransitmaster]

I would rather restore weekend service.

the new ridership in battery park city would increase demand enough to warrant weekend service.

 

Because you cant stop on the friggin highway....

 

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It doesn't need to. It would mostly stop in battery park city creating a faster direct link to st marks for those people. Plus I spotted several bus stops along rte 9A for X7/9 and 10 so your inaccurate want pics too prove it? Also northbound there are a few apartment buildings and POI there however I wouldn't see how those alone would help. Also faster access to the 6th ave line skipping the huge congestion in downtown so this M8 would be very useful to those residents especially for those who don't want to wait for M20 and very helpful when the 8th ave line is effed up on weekends. 

 

This also includes better links to several subway lines.

Edited May 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Cait Sith]

I would rather restore weekend service.

 

 

the new ridership in battery park city would increase demand enough to warrant weekend service.

 

 

Because you cant stop on the friggin highway....

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

It doesn't need to. It would mostly stop in battery park city creating a faster direct link to st marks for those people. Plus I spotted several bus stops along rte 9A for X7/9 and 10 so your inaccurate want pics too prove it? Also northbound there are a few apartment buildings and POI there however I wouldn't see how those alone would help. Also faster access to the 6th ave line skipping the huge congestion in downtown so this M8 would be very useful to those residents especially for those who don't want to wait for M20 and very helpful when the 8th ave line is effed up on weekends. 

 

This also includes better links to several subway lines.

Think before you speak please, that appears to be an unsolved problem.

 

1. The only stops on the x7 and x9 are Washington, Moore and Chambers Streets, why? They are major stops for THOSE lines. You are talking about sending the m8 through the west side highway and have it bypass the major arteries it can gain. A very dumb idea that is.

 

2. The M9, M20 and M22 serves the same, if not, even more subway connections than the M8 and makes those connections 8 million times faster. That just makes the M8 inevitably useless at Battery Park City when one can take the M20, M22 or M5. The only connections the m8 makes is the 1, 4, 5, 6, N and R as far as I know. The routes mentioned does a better job at connecting with those lines and many others.

 

3. What demand? There is 0 demand for any route of that sort around Battery Park City. That's just your way of creating that route's deathbed.

 

Just leave the M8 alone.

 

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[qjtransitmaster]

Think before you speak please, that appears to be an unsolved problem.

 

1. The only stops on the x7 and x9 are Washington, Moore and Chambers Streets, why? They are major stops for THOSE lines. You are talking about sending the m8 through the west side highway and have it bypass the major arteries it can gain. A very dumb idea that is.

 

2. The M9, M20 and M22 serves the same, if not, even more subway connections than the M8 and makes those connections 8 million times faster. That just makes the M8 inevitably useless at Battery Park City when one can take the M20, M22 or M5. The only connections the m8 makes is the 1, 4, 5, 6, N and R as far as I know. The routes mentioned does a better job at connecting with those lines and many others.

 

3. What demand? There is 0 demand for any route of that sort around Battery Park City. That's just your way of creating that route's deathbed.

 

Just leave the M8 alone.

 

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err you forgot West 4th street for 6th ave line sorry. Plus now you gain direct service from Christopher street to battery park city. It is about different links ohh faster link to Hoboken via 33rd street PATH.  This won't be a deathbed it would be a revival. M8 won't bypass them as it will still cross with them. It would be better than the M20 and less duplicative of the subway. More reliable than M22 too boot. Ohh M5 is slow and doesn't go to battery park city. With the revival of B71 and extension to manhattan then more possibilities are gained. You just like to argue with me is that it?

 

 

There is an entrance to the W 4th station directly at W 8th street for M8 to link to the line and and other 6th ave lines and when used with M12 other areas can be reached as well don't forget the parks and piers on west street too. FYI if one makes a 5 min walk on 3rd ave from M8 they can get the too.

Edited May 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[checkmatechamp13]

Hmm, so they got vans now... Good to know... They really cut back then, b/c when I had that internship, they were using mini-buses....

(I'm guessing they canned the minibuses to get vans so that overall service can be increased... not to say that they couldn't increase service w/ the mini-buses, but it would cost more, compared to running more service w/ regular vans..... I bring up (cutting down on) costs b/c they discontinued providing service to 137th & resorted to using vans instead of mini-buses to 125th & 145.... I'm guessing because I don't know how (in)frequent service was then, nor how (in)frequent it is now....)

 

It was minibuses, not vans. My fault.

 

why not extend M8 to battery park city via west side hwy then increased riders allows weekend service to be restored.

 

It would make it that much more unreliable. This isn't a route with say, M14 or M101-type frequencies we're talking about, where you can afford to have some buses caught up in traffic.

 

The M9 & M22 connect with the 7th/8th Avenue & Broadway Lines, and the M20 goes directly to the West Village. (Plus, the M9 somewhat serves the East Village, while both the M9/22 connect with the M15). There wouldn't be much additional advantage gained with the M8. Chances are you wouldn't have the Broadway, 7th Avenue, and 8th Avenue Lines all majorly screwed up on the same day.

 

It doesn't need to. It would mostly stop in battery park city creating a faster direct link to st marks for those people. Plus I spotted several bus stops along rte 9A for X7/9 and 10 so your inaccurate want pics too prove it?

 

This. With the X7/9/10, northbound buses don't loop in/out of the WFC, so they stop outside along West Street. Also, I took the M20 today, and there's a stop on West Street just north of Chambers.

Edited May 6, 2013 by checkmatechamp13

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

err you forgot West 4th street for 6th ave line sorry. Plus now you gain direct service from Christopher street to battery park city. It is about different links ohh faster link to Hoboken via 33rd street PATH.  This won't be a deathbed it would be a revival. M8 won't bypass them as it will still cross with them. It would be better than the M20 and less duplicative of the subway. More reliable than M22 too boot. Ohh M5 is slow and doesn't go to battery park city. With the revival of B71 and extension to manhattan then more possibilities are gained. You just like to argue with me is that it?

 

I dont see where you're trying to get at. Who in Battery Park City is going for New Jersey?  And I see this tactic, your total outcome is to eliminate the M20 quickly with faster alternatives (well if there's no traffic). For any BPC proposal you've came up with, it includes something to either elminate it or mess it up. And how'd the B71 come up in this discussion?

[Around the Horn]

I dont see where you're trying to get at. Who in Battery Park City is going for New Jersey?  And I see this tactic, your total outcome is to eliminate the M20 quickly with faster alternatives (well if there's no traffic). For any BPC proposal you've came up with, it includes something to either elminate it or mess it up. And how'd the B71 come up in this discussion?

it was discused in the brooklyn thread,his B71 would be extended to south ferry...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

it was discused in the brooklyn thread,his B71 would be extended to south ferry...

I know that, but the B71 is irrelevant to the M20 discussion

[Cait Sith]

Think before you speak please, that appears to be an unsolved problem.

1. The only stops on the x7 and x9 are Washington, Moore and Chambers Streets, why? They are major stops for THOSE lines. You are talking about sending the m8 through the west side highway and have it bypass the major arteries it can gain. A very dumb idea that is.

2. The M9, M20 and M22 serves the same, if not, even more subway connections than the M8 and makes those connections 8 million times faster. That just makes the M8 inevitably useless at Battery Park City when one can take the M20, M22 or M5. The only connections the m8 makes is the 1, 4, 5, 6, N and R as far as I know. The routes mentioned does a better job at connecting with those lines and many others.

3. What demand? There is 0 demand for any route of that sort around Battery Park City. That's just your way of creating that route's deathbed.

Just leave the M8 alone.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

err you forgot West 4th street for 6th ave line sorry. Plus now you gain direct service from Christopher street to battery park city. It is about different links ohh faster link to Hoboken via 33rd street PATH. This won't be a deathbed it would be a revival. M8 won't bypass them as it will still cross with them. It would be better than the M20 and less duplicative of the subway. More reliable than M22 too boot. Ohh M5 is slow and doesn't go to battery park city. With the revival of B71 and extension to manhattan then more possibilities are gained. You just like to argue with me is that it?

Again, think before you speak. Now you just sound like a straight up Assclown.

 

1. If all those transfers were necessary, dont you think that would have been implemented by now? Youre creating an unnecessary system of connections which can be solved by using the OTHER routes ive mentioned.

 

2. The M5 is "too slow"....how much more half-assed arguments can you make? You make it sound like people don't use it. NEWSFLASH: People DO use the line. And you can walk to Battery Park City from South Ferry as its only a few blocks and contrary to popular belief, people do that.

 

3. You mean to tell me that a route that runs every 20 or so minutes and gets caught in traffic 99 percent of the time is more reliable than the M22? Buddy, I know those two routes better than you would know the borough of Manhattan. I would also like to know where you get your weed supply.

 

4. Direct service from PATH to Battery Park City? You do realize that the M9 is literally 2-3 blocks from the WTC Station in which folks can get to Hoboken from there. Don't even mention weekends because folks can transfer at Grove Street and trust me, it's faster than taking it from 33rd.

 

Again, think before you speak. Just because it looks good to you doesn't mean it does for others.

 

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Edited May 6, 2013 by Cait Sith

[qjtransitmaster]

I know that, but the B71 is irrelevant to the M20 discussion

Not when connectivity is involved. The ridership increase would force upgraded service on both lines. People in cobble hill will have access to the skater parks and piers on west street and connection to reach areas served by M8 and beyond. M20 can get axed IF M12 extends south via M20's routing. Then M7 northbound rerouted to 8th ave ending on christopher street instead of 14th. Then M1 northbound gets rerouted to 6th ave providing direct service to madison ave from 6th ave. The M1 would use 59th street to get back on madison ave northbound then frequencies of M1 boosted.

 

Again, think before you speak. Now you just sound like a straight up Assclown.

 

1. If all those transfers were necessary, dont you think that would have been implemented by now? Youre creating an unnecessary system of connections which can be solved by using the OTHER routes ive mentioned.

 

2. The M5 is "too slow"....how much more half-assed arguments can you make? You make it sound like people don't use it. NEWSFLASH: People DO use the line. And you can walk to Battery Park City from South Ferry as its only a few blocks and contrary to popular belief, people do that.

 

3. You mean to tell me that a route that runs every 20 or so minutes and gets caught in traffic 99 percent of the time is more reliable than the M22? Buddy, I know those two routes better than you would know the borough of Manhattan. I would also like to know where you get your weed supply.

 

4. Direct service from PATH to Battery Park City? You do realize that the M9 is literally 2-3 blocks from the WTC Station in which folks can get to Hoboken from there. Don't even mention weekends because folks can transfer at Grove Street and trust me, it's faster than taking it from 33rd.

 

Again, think before you speak. Just because it looks good to you doesn't mean it does for others.

 

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assclown CMON MAN are the insults necessary? Try to be civil. fortunately the traffic on west street is NOT jammed so frequently and service can be upgraded to 15 min headways. Sorry man I don't do weed ask somebody else. 

 

1) ask brooklynbus.

Edited May 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Q43LTD]

Not when connectivity is involved. The ridership increase would force upgraded service on both lines. People in cobble hill will have access to the skater parks and piers on west street and connection to reach areas served by M8 and beyond. M20 can get axed IF M12 extends south via M20's routing. Then M7 northbound rerouted to 8th ave ending on christopher street instead of 14th. Then M1 northbound gets rerouted to 6th ave providing direct service to madison ave from 6th ave. The M1 would use 59th street to get back on madison ave northbound then frequencies of M1 boosted.

 

 

assclown CMON MAN are the insults necessary? Try to be civil. fortunately the traffic on west street is NOT jammed so frequently and service can be upgraded to 15 min headways. Sorry man I don't do weed ask somebody else.

 

1) ask brooklynbus.

We tried and failed to be "civil" with you

[Cait Sith]

We tried and failed to be "civil" with you

 

Especially with the way he replies, he asks for it every now and then.

 

 

This. With the X7/9/10, northbound buses don't loop in/out of the WFC, so they stop outside along West Street. Also, I took the M20 today, and there's a stop on West Street just north of Chambers.

 

The problem with that logic is that it doesn't stay on West. It turns onto Harrison when going Northbound and stays on Chambers going Southbound. We're talking about points North of West & Chambers.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Cait Sith

[qjtransitmaster]

We tried and failed to be "civil" with you

 

LOL

Especially with the way he replies, he asks for it every now and then.

 

 

 

The problem with that logic is that it doesn't stay on West. It turns onto Harrison when going Northbound and stays on Chambers going Southbound. We're talking about points North of West & Chambers.

I know that actually.

[B35 via Church]

why not extend M8 to battery park city via west side hwy then increased riders allows weekend service to be restored.

Because you're not gonna get anyone that currently takes the M8, to take it to BPC (battery park city)....

You aren't gonna extract a newfound riderbase from somewhere that'll add to the M8's usage/ridership that'll come close to justifying an extension to BPC either......

 

assclown CMON MAN are the insults necessary? Try to be civil. fortunately the traffic on west street is NOT jammed so frequently and service can be upgraded to 15 min headways. Sorry man I don't do weed ask somebody else. 

 

1) ask brooklynbus.

How about answering Cait Sith's questions instead of looking for BrooklynBus to bail you out.....

 

the new ridership in battery park city would increase demand enough to warrant weekend service.

What increased riders? Who are you trying to cater to with this extension ?

What increased demand to warrant weekend service (if extended to BPC)?

 

Neither (increases) would happen - You would just have empty buses running between BPC & Greenwich Village.... If you think it's BPC patrons that want Greenwich Village & the area around Astor pl. enough to extend M8's, I have a bridge I want to sell you..... There is nothing along West st of interest that would draw riders in; worse, heading towards BPC, you can't have stops along that side of west st.....

 

If virtually no one is taking M20's in Greenwich Village to BPC, what in the world would make you believe they'll take extended M8's there... Again with the highway fetishry out of you, what else is new....

Edited May 7, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

Because you're not gonna get anyone that currently takes the M8, to take it to BPC (battery park city)....

You aren't gonna extract a newfound riderbase from somewhere that'll add to the M8's usage/ridership that'll come close to justifying an extension to BPC either......

 

How about answering Cait Sith's questions instead of looking for BrooklynBus to bail you out.....

 

What increased riders? Who are you trying to cater to with this extension ?

What increased demand to warrant weekend service (if extended to BPC)?

 

Neither (increases) would happen - You would just have empty buses running between BPC & Greenwich Village.... If you think it's BPC patrons that want Greenwich Village & the area around Astor pl. enough to extend M8's, I have a bridge I want to sell you..... There is nothing along West st of interest that would draw riders in; worse, heading towards BPC, you can't have stops along that side of west st.....

 

If virtually no one is taking M20's in Greenwich Village to BPC, what in the world would make you believe they'll take extended M8's there... Again with the highway fetishry out of you, what else is new....

cause with the M8 you don't have to transfer to reach st marks or greenwich village nor east village from BPC. The M20 duplicates the resulting in low ridership. The M8 doesn't and unlike M20 gives you a one seat ride to those areas while with M20 you have free shuttles to reach the 7th ave line. 

The reason why nobody uses M20 there is simple they use the subway instead. 

 

also many use cabs to reach the areas around M8 this makes for a quicker link minus the duplication and unlike M20 it is directly next to the W4th street station for the and and the other 6th ave lines I didn't mention 8th ave as those folks are taking those trains from chambers. The shitastic headways on the can screw up links with the 6th ave line. Also the is within a 5 min walk from the M8 so other variable trips become possible. also there are many piers and pedestrian hotspots on the west side hwy that can attract new ridership to the M8 in ways that the M20 could never accomplish. Cause unlike M20 this bus can take people directly to hudson river park. Also with B71 extension to battery park city via south ferry and M8 to south ferry and B71 cobble hill patrons get more connections in the process as well as a quick ride to the piers and places on the west side hwy. Subway service is non-existent in that immediate area. I would go as far as to say B71 should not just go to south ferry but battery park city for links to the PATH as well creating easier access to the hudson waterfront from the redhook area.  

 

Maybe M8 can also extend to waterside plaza via ave C so people won't have to switch to the M9 to get there.

[B35 via Church]

cause with the M8 you don't have to transfer to reach st marks or greenwich village nor east village from BPC. The M20 duplicates the resulting in low ridership. The M8 doesn't and unlike M20 gives you a one seat ride to those areas while with M20 you have free shuttles to reach the 7th ave line. 

The reason why nobody uses M20 there is simple they use the subway instead.

What's funny about this is that you say the M20 duplicates the (and it being a reason basically no one uses it b/w said points [which is true to an extent]), but an extended M8 b/w Greenwich Village & BPC would duplicate the M20..... The only difference is that (basically) M8's would run non-stop along West st, while the M20 would actually pick up pax b/w the two points.... So again, who's supposed to benefit from the M8 to BPC?

 

East Village folks aren't heading to BPC (or vice versa) like that either, so telling me that an extended M8 of sorts would eliminate a transfer scenario that anyone taking M20's would have to make from BPC to the East Village, is irrelevant.... If those same folks aren't one-seat riding it out with the M9, they won't do it with an extended M8.....

 

also many use cabs to reach the areas around M8 this makes for a quicker link minus the duplication and unlike M20 it is directly next to the W4th street station for the and and the other 6th ave lines I didn't mention 8th ave as those folks are taking those trains from chambers. The shitastic headways on the can screw up links with the 6th ave line. Also the is within a 5 min walk from the M8 so other variable trips become possible. also there are many piers and pedestrian hotspots on the west side hwy that can attract new ridership to the M8 in ways that the M20 could never accomplish. Cause unlike M20 this bus can take people directly to hudson river park. 

How many people are taking cabs from the areas around the M8, to BPC (or vice versa) is the question......

 

Manhattanites (in general) that take cabs b/w points A & B are the last group of people you're gonna be successful in tryna get them onto buses - regardless of where they're extended to.... It's looking to me like you're tryna paint this picture that there's a significant amt. of BPC patrons are taking cabs to areas along/around the M8 b/c the M8 itself doesn't serve BPC.... Not buying it, if it is.....

 

Also with B71 extension to battery park city via south ferry and M8 to south ferry and B71 cobble hill patrons get more connections in the process as well as a quick ride to the piers and places on the west side hwy. Subway service is non-existent in that immediate area. I would go as far as to say B71 should not just go to south ferry but battery park city for links to the PATH as well creating easier access to the hudson waterfront from the redhook area.

B71 to manhattan is a totally separate issue that involves connecting Brooklyn to Lower Manhattan..... Let's not muddy the waters here....

 

Maybe M8 can also extend to waterside plaza via ave C so people won't have to switch to the M9 to get there.

Now that extension I would side (much) more with, over extending M8's to BPC.....

I'm not saying it should happen, but you would (easily) benefit more people running M8's to Waterside, over running M8's to BPC....

[Cait Sith]

Because you're not gonna get anyone that currently takes the M8, to take it to BPC (battery park city)....

You aren't gonna extract a newfound riderbase from somewhere that'll add to the M8's usage/ridership that'll come close to justifying an extension to BPC either......

 

How about answering Cait Sith's questions instead of looking for BrooklynBus to bail you out.....

 

What increased riders? Who are you trying to cater to with this extension ?

What increased demand to warrant weekend service (if extended to BPC)?

 

Neither (increases) would happen - You would just have empty buses running between BPC & Greenwich Village.... If you think it's BPC patrons that want Greenwich Village & the area around Astor pl. enough to extend M8's, I have a bridge I want to sell you..... There is nothing along West st of interest that would draw riders in; worse, heading towards BPC, you can't have stops along that side of west st.....

 

If virtually no one is taking M20's in Greenwich Village to BPC, what in the world would make you believe they'll take extended M8's there... Again with the highway fetishry out of you, what else is new....

 

Thank you....I hate it when people try to challenge my knowledge of certain routes and then looks for a quick escape in the end....

 

Maybe M8 can also extend to waterside plaza via ave C so people won't have to switch to the M9 to get there.

 

That would work much better than an extension to BPC.

[Q43LTD]

I guess that could work but the M9 doesn't directly serve Waterside. It's better than extending it to Battery Park City.

[Threxx]

Why don't you just send the M9 through Waterside if that's what you want?

 

Why don't you just leave routes which are already bastardized and unreliable alone and not try to f**k things up more? No one from that area is looking for BPC, and these arguments about the PATH make no sense....