Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

All the MTA had to do was to make the B37 stop with the B103, not the other way around (on top of this madness, three stops are added). Great thinking by the MTA, kudos (smh).....

[B35 via Church]

Personally I simply think that many of Brooklyn's bus routes are outdated, and could be revised slightly to an extent to better serve passengers whenever possible.

 

That aside I do see the point you have established regarding the mode of choice in the equation. Now would that better serve passengers, it's up for debate but at any rate it might save some cash on the MTA's part.

Sure, but I don't think the B103 falls into that category.... Any tinkering to that route (for as fast as ridership has grown on that route, since it's command days) would loom detrimental - especially a split, like BreedDekalb done drew up..... IMO anyway....

 

But yeah, Give me some examples of some routes you think are outdated...

(I'm not even gonna argue whatever you list....)

 

Why the has their little fetish for killing off lines I will never know. That's the sort of shit I expect from the a**holes running NICE.

Monaaay monaaay, monaaay... Love that monaaaayyyy.... It's really getting out of hand as of late with this agency though....

Said this many times on here, The MTA is not in it for the riders.

 

All the MTA had to do was to make the B37 stop with the B103, not the other way around (on top of this madness, three stops are added). Great thinking by the MTA, kudos (smh).....

Yeah, The B103 shouldn't even factor into the discussion.... I'm not fond of the resurrection of the B37, but since they're going through with it, just focus on trying to bring more riders to that route & be done with it.....

[Turbo19]

Sure, but I don't think the B103 falls into that category.... Any tinkering to that route (for as fast as ridership has grown on that route, since it's command days) would loom detrimental - especially a split, like BreedDekalb done drew up..... IMO anyway....

 

But yeah, Give me some examples of some routes you think are outdated...

(I'm not even gonna argue whatever you list....)

Some that come to mind are those that terminate haphazardly in areas that were much more dense, such as the B45, B48, and others still I feel should be altered to better serve destinations that have increased demand, B1 & B49 serving KCC is a good example.

 

That taken into mind I'll say this much before it blows up in my face, I don't utilize Brooklyn routes on a daily basis in contrast to others here, so if that makes the opinion any less valid so be it.

[B35 via Church]

Some that come to mind are those that terminate haphazardly in areas that were much more dense, such as the B45, B48, and others still I feel should be altered to better serve destinations that have increased demand, B1 & B49 serving KCC is a good example.

 

That taken into mind I'll say this much before it blows up in my face, I don't utilize Brooklyn routes on a daily basis in contrast to others here, so if that makes the opinion any less valid so be it.

Don't worry about it... I said I wasn't gonna argue what you listed & I won't..... 

 

Lol @ terminating haphazardly.... I know what you mean with that... I have a bit of an issue with routes that terminate in the middle of (not much) either.......

[Q101viaSteinway]

Sure, but I don't think the B103 falls into that category.... Any tinkering to that route (for as fast as ridership has grown on that route, since it's command days) would loom detrimental - especially a split, like BreedDekalb done drew up..... IMO anyway....

 

But yeah, Give me some examples of some routes you think are outdated...

(I'm not even gonna argue whatever you list....)

 

Monaaay monaaay, monaaay... Love that monaaaayyyy.... It's really getting out of hand as of late with this agency though....

Said this many times on here, The MTA is not in it for the riders.

 

Yeah, The B103 shouldn't even factor into the discussion.... I'm not fond of the resurrection of the B37, but since they're going through with it, just focus on trying to bring more riders to that route & be done with it.....

I don't think B103 will be split up into 2 route, Im sure MTA not that stupid. MTA will not want pay the deadhead cost from Spring Creek to Junction or Downtown Brooklyn and will not want to risk losing ridership. If anything MTA will make B103 into a Q53 like route with no non stop section or if not Q53 like route a Q44 or B41 like route. MTA like having huge limited stop route like B41, Q44 or Q53. I think MTA might go and make East of Junction B103 local with west of junction being limited stop part before splitting B103 into 2

Edited January 26, 2014 by Q101viaSteinway

[Turbo19]

Don't worry about it... I said I wasn't gonna argue what you listed & I won't..... 

It's cool. Not placing the disclaimer for you, rather others getting in the middle wanting to refute, which in this case it might be valid.

 

Lol @ terminating haphazardly.... I know what you mean with that... I have a bit of an issue with routes that terminate in the middle of (not much) either.......

Yeah, it's great if it's adequately used, but in some cases it would do better to make an extension. I dare bring up the B44 to KCC as an example, lol. Not really, but still.

[Q101viaSteinway]

MTA should extend B103 bus from Flatland and William Avenue to Gateway mall via Flatland Avenue, Penn Avenue, and once on Penn Avenue follow B83 route to Gateway mall. Spring Creek Depot is closer to Gateway mall than flatland and william avenue

[Culver]

All the MTA had to do was to make the B37 stop with the B103, not the other way around (on top of this madness, three stops are added). Great thinking by the MTA, kudos (smh).....

This exactly. Sharing the stop on Atlantic/Pacific (and at most, also the 9 St stop, for connection to F/G/R) would've been enough.

[aemoreira81]

MTA should extend B103 bus from Flatland and William Avenue to Gateway mall via Flatland Avenue, Penn Avenue, and once on Penn Avenue follow B83 route to Gateway mall. Spring Creek Depot is closer to Gateway mall than flatland and william avenue

 

With the addition of stops on the B103 in Park Slope starting in the summer (to permit connections to and from the B37 - the B103 will begin stopping at 9 Street, 3 Street, and Warren Street), I'm not sure if that's feasible anymore, given that with the stop at 9 Street, this route could easily push 90 minutes. I can see why the MTA added the 3 Street stop (to what seems like everyone's chagrin but Yuki's); the Whole Foods is going to be a ridership generator, with riders transferring from the B61 and B67 to the B103 for it; the supermarket that should be a bit worried is D'Agostino (which serves a similar clientele).

 

As for splitting the B103 down the line, that would cripple the northern half of the line, as most of the ridership is still on the southern half and through ridership. What I would propose, however, is eliminating the southbound route through Kensington that has no corresponding northbound service, having the B103 run express between Beverley Road and 9 Street (with a stop added at Church Avenue on Coney Island Avenue northbound and on the Ocean Parkway service road southbound to maintain that B35 transfer.

Edited January 28, 2014 by aemoreira81

[Eric B]

Since the 103 parallels the B41LTD (except from 3rd to Cortelyou, and after Ave. H), then why don't they do something extra, like extend it over the Manhattan Bridge?

[NewFlyer 230]

Since the 103 parallels the B41LTD (except from 3rd to Cortelyou, and after Ave. H), then why don't they do something extra, like extend it over the Manhattan Bridge?

It's going to effect the B103's reliability especially when the bridge is crowded during Rush Hour. I think Downtown Brooklyn service is good enough. We do not need another M5 like route which I hope they split that route again.

[Mysterious2train]

Since the 103 parallels the B41LTD (except from 3rd to Cortelyou, and after Ave. H), then why don't they do something extra, like extend it over the Manhattan Bridge?

 

They don't really parallel each either. Heading downtown, they only serve 3 common streets - The Junction, Foster Av, and Cortelyou Rd, which the B41 Limited skips. B103 service Downtown is mainly used by customers coming from far out on its route. Besides, the B41 doesn't get much ridership from Avenue H and below headed Downtown (At least, relative to all its ridership) because it's faster to just take the train. Also, the B103 is essentially a Downtown Brooklyn version of the BM2 (and vice-versa) so why send it to Manhattan? 

[Eric B]

The 103 is slowly becoming more local, that's why I thought of that idea.

 

I know where I grew up, around Dorchester, it was a ways from either train, and the B41 was the lifeline to the rest of Brooklyn (Which is why I was annoyed that both the LTD and B103 all skip that area). The train was only for Manhattan and beyond or Coney Island.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What's the probability of some B103 riders switching to the BM2 because of this?

[Mysterious2train]

The 103 is slowly becoming more local, that's why I thought of that idea.

 

I know where I grew up, around Dorchester, it was a ways from either train, and the B41 was the lifeline to the rest of Brooklyn (Which is why I was annoyed that both the LTD and B103 all skip that area). The train was only for Manhattan and beyond or Coney Island.

I see your point, but wouldn't the B103 becoming slower be less of a reason to extend it in the first place? I'm guessing you weren't very fond of taking the 41 to Empire Blvd for the subway? (At least, that's not quite as slow as taking the local all the way downtown)

 

 

What's the probability of some B103 riders switching to the BM2 because of this?

What, because of the 3 new stops? I don't think it's high. I would assume almost everybody on the 103 going to Manhattan would get off at the Junction and get the or . Unless the extra time spent at those stops causes widespread delays that hamper the reliability of the whole route, including the short-turns, I don't see much changing. Edited January 29, 2014 by Mysterious2train

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What's the probability of some B103 riders switching to the BM2 because of this?

lol... Please... They're not paying an extra $3.50 for the BM2... Local bus riders are local bus riders and express bus riders are express bus riders.  The only way they would change is if they didn't know about the BM2 before for some odd reason.

[Turbo19]

lol... Please... They're not paying an extra $3.50 for the BM2... Local bus riders are local bus riders and express bus riders are express bus riders.  The only way they would change is if they didn't know about the BM2 before for some odd reason.

Only you'd act as pretentious as this on the matter. As if $3.50 were these peoples life savings...

[Eric B]

I see your point, but wouldn't the B103 becoming slower be less of a reason to extend it in the first place? I'm guessing you weren't very fond of taking the 41 to Empire Blvd for the subway? (At least, that's not quite as slow as taking the local all the way downtown)

When I grew up, we didn't have free bus-subway transfers, so if we got on the bus, we stayed on the bus (and there was no LTD either. And no B103 that I knew of! But then they don't stop where I lived anyway, though they would have been a bit closer than the trains).

 

I just liked the idea of the Flatbush corridor being connected to Manhattan by bus, since it kind of reminded me of a piece of "the city" as we called it (And Flatbush Ave. is what becomes the Manhattan Bridge, so it seems like a natural extension). So it's not a serious suggestion, but I figured since they probably wouldn't extend the 41 for it already being long and slow, then this alternative route would be an idea.

[B35 via Church]

I don't think B103 will be split up into 2 route, Im sure MTA not that stupid. MTA will not want pay the deadhead cost from Spring Creek to Junction or Downtown Brooklyn and will not want to risk losing ridership.

 

If anything MTA will make B103 into a Q53 like route with no non stop section or if not Q53 like route a Q44 or B41 like route. MTA like having huge limited stop route like B41, Q44 or Q53. I think MTA might go and make East of Junction B103 local with west of junction being limited stop part before splitting B103 into 2

It already has a non-stop section, for one .... And two, they're adding stops on the route, so this theory is out.....

If you've been paying attention, you'd realize that they don't like these huge LTD stop routes (as you put it) - They're actually trying to eliminate what I call "empty mileage" on these routes nowadays.... Let's take your example - Remember the Q53 that used to go non-stop from jamaica wildlife refuge to QB..... 

 

...and Lol @ lumping the B41 into the same category of LTD routes at the Q53 & the Q44; that stint b/w Empire & the main library pales in comparison.....

 

But yeah, making the 103 local east of the junction is what I'm saying.... They could keep the route north of the junction intact as a LTD, but they're gonna find out buses are being utilized that much less (that's also what I'd be worried about).... To be perfectly honest, I'm a little surprised they don't have more NB 103's stopping dead at the junction during the later PM hours as it is - those buses carry air by time they hit the prospect, towards downtown.... And I'm talking within the span of Years this has been the case......

 

As for splitting the B103 down the line, that would cripple the northern half of the line, as most of the ridership is still on the southern half and through ridership. What I would propose, however, is eliminating the southbound route through Kensington that has no corresponding northbound service, having the B103 run express between Beverley Road and 9 Street (with a stop added at Church Avenue on Coney Island Avenue northbound and on the Ocean Parkway service road southbound to maintain that B35 transfer.

The northern portion of the line is already crippled (hence, tryna get more riders w/i park slope or w/e, slowing down the route that much more); I don't think I have ever seen anyone embark & disembark the 103 w/i downtown brooklyn..... The riders that's riding to/from downtown are of those from midwood & points south/east...... Kensington usage on the 103 FWIW is rather poor.....

 

As for your routing change, I don't have a real opinion on it, right this second....

 

What's the probability of some B103 riders switching to the BM2 because of this?

I would be more worried about an increase of B103 riders switching over to the subway @ the junction (meaning, that much more crowded 2's & 5's in the morning).... Of the current B103 riders heading to manhattan via an xfer to the subway (at the junction or at Boro Hall), I can't see those riders considering taking the BM2 to manhattan instead...... What you would have to find out is how many 103 riders are even going to manhattan enough for (some of) them to switch over to the BM2 (quite honestly, I think this number is rather low - With the vast majority of riders seeking downtown brooklyn)....

 

So to opinionate on the question, I'd say very very very low....

Edited January 30, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BreeddekalbL]

i did the b103 route with the extension to the spring creek mall

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=218345366120084192601.0004f1100aec34fd695ef&msa=0&ll=40.67517,-73.981075&spn=0.097773,0.181789

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

But yeah, making the 103 local east of the junction is what I'm saying.... They could keep the route north of the junction intact as a LTD, but they're gonna find out buses are being utilized that much less (that's also what I'd be worried about).... To be perfectly honest, I'm a little surprised they don't have more NB 103's stopping dead at the junction during the later PM hours as it is - those buses carry air by time they hit the prospect, towards downtown.... And I'm talking within the span of Years this has been the case......

 

The northern portion of the line is already crippled (hence, tryna get more riders w/i park slope or w/e, slowing down the route that much more); I don't think I have ever seen anyone embark & disembark the 103 w/i downtown brooklyn..... The riders that's riding to/from downtown are of those from midwood & points south/east...... Kensington usage on the 103 FWIW is rather poor.....

 

I would be more worried about an increase of B103 riders switching over to the subway @ the junction (meaning, that much more crowded 2's & 5's in the morning).... Of the current B103 riders heading to manhattan via an xfer to the subway (at the junction or at Boro Hall), I can't see those riders considering taking the BM2 to manhattan instead...... What you would have to find out is how many 103 riders are even going to manhattan enough for (some of) them to switch over to the BM2 (quite honestly, I think this number is rather low - With the vast majority of riders seeking downtown brooklyn)....

 

So to opinionate on the question, I'd say very very very low....

They have stopped AM buses at Cortelyou before (of the ones going up to the Junction as a second short-turn to Maintain some service while not overserving). That failed, and some of the trips were either extended back up to Downtown, shortened to the Junction, or completely eliminated (although the latter two were what happened to most of those Cortelyou Short-turns).

[B35 via Church]

They have stopped AM buses at Cortelyou before (of the ones going up to the Junction as a second short-turn to Maintain some service while not overserving). That failed, and some of the trips were either extended back up to Downtown, shortened to the Junction, or completely eliminated (although the latter two were what happened to most of those Cortelyou Short-turns).

Well what does that tell you....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Only you'd act as pretentious as this on the matter. As if $3.50 were these peoples life savings...

Not pretentious... Just telling it like it is... $3.50 one way, twice a day is $7.00.  $7.00 for 5 days is $35.00 and so on...  People complain about paying for the monthly, so I can't see them forking over more than double that a month.

[Turbo19]

Not pretentious... Just telling it like it is... $3.50 one way, twice a day is $7.00.  $7.00 for 5 days is $35.00 and so on...  People complain about paying for the monthly, so I can't see them forking over more than double that a month.

Check your PM.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Anyways, dealing with the BM express, I'll just focus in on the BM5/QM15.

 

The BM5 needs a total revampment of it's schedule on Saturday. More service is provided overall for Woodhaven Blvd residents and the communities in Queens along the path. However, the situation is the same as the Q11/Q21 scenario duing off peak hours northbound. Southbound though, you'll see a QM15 and BM5 within 7 or 8 minutes from each other, and then see nothing for 52-53 minutes. In addition, the current schedule just doesn't fit in with the current departure times. A BM5 is expected to leave 2 Ave at 0:00, and the QM15 is set to depart 3 Avenue at :04. Doesn't really provide any consistent headway, you have a 4/56 headway gap throughout the entire day.

 

I would revamp the BM5 to leave at :30 after the hour.

 

To Queens:

At the 57 street terminals, buses would leave at :10 (QM15) and :50 (BM5)

At the 34 street terminals, buses would leave at :08 (BM5) and :44 (QM15)

 

 

The overall goal is to provide a consistent headway on both sections instead of only one.

 

However, there doesn't need to be two buses per hour to Queens until the 1 PM hour, however, I'll retain the BM5 buses departing at 10:50 AM and 11:50 AM for coverage reasons. The current 10:00 AM bus departing 57 street would be cut ( I honestly don't think it's needed).

 

A 2:15 PM trip from Spring Creek would be added on the BM5.

 

Going on to the Weekday Slot, the trips from 57 street would also depart from :50 (10 minutes later than scheduled) starting from the 11:40 AM bus (which would become the 11:50 AM bus). Buses would depart 57 street at :50 past the hour until 3:50, then run every 1/2 hour, at 4:20 PM, and then 4:50 PM, and run every 20 minutes until 5:50 PM. From there, run every half hour until 7:20 PM, then depart at 8:30 PM, 9:45 PM, and 11:00 PM

 

Going to Manhattan, the BM5 can consolidate the 8:40 AM and 9:15 AM trips into a 9:10 AM trip. The bus service would then depart Spring Creek at 10:15 AM, 11:25 AM, 12:35 PM, and 2:15 PM. The same amount of trips would be used, and the span increases, and less redundant buses would be used in the set-up. 

 

The same amount of trips would exist, although some during the late PM rush would be discontinued and added to other parts of the day to increase ridership

 

(Now, you may wonder why the BM5 last trip is a "random" 2:15 PM trip. That bus actually is to generate more ridership from both Brooklyn and Queens Parts of the BM5 route, and it's also the last trip in the pre-2012 schedule that was actually useful.