Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Poverty is the hidden dark side of the otherwise vibrant and fun Coney Island. All people think of Coney Island are the amusement parks, the beach, the restaurants, and MCU Park...while not knowing about the social issues that are rampant there.

This is true.  Growing up in South Brooklyn (Sheepshead Bay/Manhattan Beach area), anytime we went to Coney Island, we didn't go past the amusement park (just one of those unspoken rules), and it was always via car from what I remember as a kid.  Even as a grown up I don't venture too far past that area.  The last time I was down there was when the X28 run down there on weekends.  I haven't been since then, but I have been near Sea Gate via car.  Sea Gate could perhaps be more affluent if it wasn't for Coney Island.  The amount of rampant crime and housing projects means that the area won't get better anytime soon in my mind.  Given how economically suppressed the residential area is, the B36 and B74 are more needed for that reason alone.  I get the impression that those who are going to Coney Island (as in the amusement park) use the subway or drive there if they aren't too worried about their car being stolen.  A good friend of mine from NJ went down there to the amusement area, but he left his car elsewhere and went via the subway.  Can't blame him either. lol

 

Yeah, but it still doesn't mean that what's in reality isn't happening. The 74 is needed.

In fact they should probably increase the frequencies of the B74 to take some of the strain off of the B36.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I don't see that happening.  A lot of the people from Coney Island need access to Coney Island Hospital on Ocean Parkway and other points east.  In fact a lot of them would take the B36 to the schools in Sheepshead Bay or Gravesend.  Some of the schools have changed and become specialized schools, so that may be less of a point now, but you still need the B36 for East-West service.  Notice I keep saying Coney Island even though it ends right next to Sea Gate.  Sea Gate keeps itself away from the mess in Coney Island by being gated.  It is really highly affluent (partially because you have to travel through Coney Island to get there), but some folks have a little money to the point to where they can isolate themselves from Coney Island enough and just drive.  I imagine others take the X28 or X38 during the week.  I knew a kid who went to school with me in Sheepshead Bay who lived in Sea Gate and his mother drove him to and from school.

Yeah, I think you're right with that point. 

This is true.  Growing up in South Brooklyn (Sheepshead Bay/Manhattan Beach area), anytime we went to Coney Island, we didn't go past the amusement park (just one of those unspoken rules), and it was always via car from what I remember as a kid.  Even as a grown up I don't venture too far past that area.  The last time I was down there was when the X28 run down there on weekends.  I haven't been since then, but I have been near Sea Gate via car.  Sea Gate could perhaps be more affluent if it wasn't for Coney Island.  The amount of rampant crime and housing projects means that the area won't get better anytime soon in my mind.  Given how economically suppressed the residential area is, the B36 and B74 are more needed for that reason alone.  I get the impression that those who are going to Coney Island (as in the amusement park) use the subway or drive there if they aren't too worried about their car being stolen.  A good friend of mine from NJ went down there to the amusement area, but he left his car elsewhere and went via the subway.  Can't blame him either. lol

 

In fact they should probably increase the frequencies of the B74 to take some of the strain off of the B36.

That happens, and you might see a small increase in B36 headways (most of the service provided is within Coney Island anyways, so it shouldn't be so bad for the ones traveling to the subway.

 

Also, it would've been interesting if they advertised the X28 as a way to go to the beach (lol).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, I think you're right with that point. 

 

That happens, and you might see a small increase in B36 headways (most of the service provided is within Coney Island anyways, so it shouldn't be so bad for the ones traveling to the subway.

 

Also, it would've been interesting if they advertised the X28 as a way to go to the beach (lol).

Yeah I always took the X28 when heading down there, but they definitely don't advertise it.  The wanted to get rid of the X27 and X28 on weekends for years and their financial woes just gave them an excuse to do so.  For now they've been very adamant about not restoring weekend X28 service, though folks especially in Dyker Heights have been pushing for it.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah I always took the X28 when heading down there, but they definitely don't advertise it.  The wanted to get rid of the X27 and X28 on weekends for years and their financial woes just gave them an excuse to do so.  For now they've been very adamant about not restoring weekend X28 service, though folks especially in Dyker Heights have been pushing for it.

Keyword dyker heights.

Not that I know of.  In any event, the B74 isn't going anywhere.  It's a shuttle for those who need the subway and if it was eliminated, the B36 would be overwhelmed.  Even with the B74 the B36 is overwhelmed because they serve different areas of Coney Island.  Coney Island is generally poor and given the LARGE amount of housing projects there, people rely heavily on the local buses.  In fact it is one the poorest neighborhoods in Brooklyn, right along with the likes of Brownsville and East New York, and one of the poorest neighborhoods in the country.

In the country? How.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In the country? How.

The household income in Coney Island rivals that of Morris Heights and University Heights in the Bronx, and those two neighborhoods are known to be two of the poorest areas not just in the city, but in the country.  The median household income for the three neighborhoods is no more than $27,000 a year, which is pathetic, and I'm being generous by actually rounding up.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Yeah, but it does get very good ridership, and IIRC, it's a profitable route, compared to the B36.

 

Also, what if the B36 was split in two (one route running only within Coney Island, and then the current B36 as it is within Sheepshead and Coney) in order to somehow improve reliability (well, at least on the Coney Island side).

 

The western split would have 6 minute headways during the Rush, 12 minute headways during the Midday hours, and operate every 12 minutes during the early evening, and 20 during the late evening. (In this case late evening is after 10 PM). During the weekends, the western split would run every 12 minutes during the saturday daytime hours (14 on Sundays), and every 20 minutes during the evening. Buses would operate every 40 minutes during the overnight hours.

 

 

The eastern split would operate every 7 minutes during the AM and PM peak, 10 minutes during the midday hours and early evening hours, and 20 during the late evening. Service would operate every 10 minutes all day on Saturdays, 12 minutes all day on Sundays, and 20 during the evening. Service would operate every 60 minutes as it is during the late night hours.

 

First:  No route is "profitable" — some simply cover more of their costs than others.

 

Second:  The real question for the B36 is the level of through riding at Stillwell. Do entire bus loads from Sea Gate leave and whole new loads board? Or is there a significant proportion of riders who stay on the bus — and if so, where do they go?  (As an extreme example, splitting the Q44 in Flushing would be operationally convenient, but it can never happen because of the huge numbers of Jamaica-to-Bronx riders who already transfer from other buses and would be forced to transfer again and pay a second fare. BTW... If anybody has ideas for this, please add them to the Queens Bus Proposal topic.)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Second:  The real question for the B36 is the level of through riding at Stillwell. Do entire bus loads from Sea Gate leave and whole new loads board? Or is there a significant proportion of riders who stay on the bus — and if so, where do they go?  (As an extreme example, splitting the Q44 in Flushing would be operationally convenient, but it can never happen because of the huge numbers of Jamaica-to-Bronx riders who already transfer from other buses and would be forced to transfer again and pay a second fare. BTW... If anybody has ideas for this, please add them to the Queens Bus Proposal topic.)

No they don't.  It's a mix similar to the usage at Sheepshead Bay Road.  Some get off, some stay on and the more people pile on, so to answer what you're getting at, the B36 should not be split up.  

[Armandito]

B79: Local service between Bay Ridge and Canarsie via Bay Ridge Av, 8 Av, 65 St, 20 Av, Av I, Coney Island Av, Av J, Bedford Av, Glenwood Rd, Albany Av, Av H, and Flatlands Av. Bus will operate between Shore Rd/Mackay Pl and the Rockaway Pkwy subway station from 6AM to midnight every 10-15 minutes during rush hours and every 30 minutes all other times. Some rush hour buses will terminate at the Flatbush Av subway station.

Edited August 15, 2014 by lara8710

[NY1635]

B79: Local service between Bay Ridge and Canarsie via Bay Ridge Av, 8 Av, 65 St, 20 Av, Av I, Coney Island Av, Av J, Bedford Av, Glenwood Rd, Albany Av, Av H, and Flatlands Av. Bus will operate between Shore Rd/Mackay Pl and the Rockaway Pkwy subway station from 6AM to midnight every 10-15 minutes during rush hours and every 30 minutes all other times. Some rush hour buses will terminate at the Flatbush Av subway station.

 

How is your route different from the B103?

[Armandito]

It runs to Canarsie from Bay Ridge, not Downtown Brooklyn. Also, this route is a local, whereas the B103 is a limited. The B103 therefore doesn't directly serve the in Canarsie.

Edited August 15, 2014 by lara8710

[B35 via Church]

B79: Local service between Bay Ridge and Canarsie via Bay Ridge Av, 8 Av, 65 St, 20 Av, Av I, Coney Island Av, Av J, Bedford Av, Glenwood Rd, Albany Av, Av H, and Flatlands Av. Bus will operate between Shore Rd/Mackay Pl and the Rockaway Pkwy subway station from 6AM to midnight every 10-15 minutes during rush hours and every 30 minutes all other times. Some rush hour buses will terminate at the Flatbush Av subway station.

Lol..... All this is, is a B6 that goes to Xaverian..... There's no demand for this....

[Armandito]

Lol..... All this is, is a B6 that goes to Xaverian..... There's no demand for this....

The B11 used to go to Canarsie back in the 1980s, but it was cut back to Brooklyn College since then. Edited August 15, 2014 by lara8710

[Q43LTD]

The B11 doesn't even start in Bay Ridge, it starts in Sunset Park...

[B35 via Church]

The B11 used to go to Canarsie back in the 1980s, but it was cut back to Brooklyn College since then.

What does that have to do with the tea in china????

 

The B11 doesn't even start in Bay Ridge, it starts in Sunset Park...

Thank you.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The B11 used to go to Canarsie back in the 1980s, but it was cut back to Brooklyn College since then.

That's because ridership on that section, despite being a supplement for the B6, was relatively low.

The B11 doesn't even start in Bay Ridge, it starts in Sunset Park...

+1

B79: Local service between Bay Ridge and Canarsie via Bay Ridge Av, 8 Av, 65 St, 20 Av, Av I, Coney Island Av, Av J, Bedford Av, Glenwood Rd, Albany Av, Av H, and Flatlands Av. Bus will operate between Shore Rd/Mackay Pl and the Rockaway Pkwy subway station from 6AM to midnight every 10-15 minutes during rush hours and every 30 minutes all other times. Some rush hour buses will terminate at the Flatbush Av subway station.

There's already a route being planned from Bay Ridge to that intermediate section of Brookly (and an SBS at that).

[B35 via Church]

That's because ridership on that section, despite being a supplement for the B6, was relatively low.

 

There's already a route being planned from Bay Ridge to that intermediate section of Brookly (and an SBS at that).

- I don't even know why (s)he brought that up, as that "B79" of sorts doesn't run to sunset park.... It resembles a B6 that parallels the , en route to Xaverian... Take the 6 to the 9 & be done with it, absolutely no need for a new route doing what this latest suggestion would entail.....

 

- Sure, just not the part of Bay Ridge (s)he has this "B79" serving!

[aemoreira81]

If there is a route that should go from Bay Ridge to Canarsie---I would argue that it should be a B8 variant that operates via Canarsie Plaza, running between the 86 Street station and the Rockaway Parkway station, since the shopping center is a bit underserved, (The proposed BRT route that would run to JFK airport would also likely start in Bay Ridge and it should serve the same two points on a more southerly route.) That would also help to relieve the B1 a bit.

 

BTW, the real reason for cutting the B11 to Brooklyn College in 1990: it was so unreliable because the western portion of the route was often delayed. The B6 Canarsie-Midwood short turns are a legacy of that to this day.

Edited August 15, 2014 by aemoreira81

[Armandito]

B34: Limited-stop service between Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and LaGuardia Airport via Broadway, Rodney St (northbound), Marcy Av (southbound), Meeker Av, Brooklyn-Queens Expy, and Grand Central Pkwy. No stops are made between Kingsland/Meeker Avs and Parking Lot 1 in LaGuardia Airport. Bus will operate daily from 6AM to midnight every 15 minutes during rush hours and every 30 minutes all other times. Makes only the following stops:

 

On Broadway:

Williamsburg Bridge Plaza

Marcy Av subway station

 

On Rodney St (northbound) and Marcy Av (southbound):

Metropolitan Av (near the Metropolitan Av and Lorimer St subway stations)

 

On Meeker Av:

Lorimer St

Graham Av

Kingsland Av

 

Then all stops within LaGuardia Airport (including the Marine Air Terminal)

Edited August 15, 2014 by lara8710

[Q43LTD]

This is worse than a certain member that proposed the Q70 going to Williamsburg...

[Fresh Pond]

Sounds super route-ish...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Didn't we have someone already propose this a while back...

[Armandito]

Didn't we have someone already propose this a while back...

My proposal is slightly different--instead of a Q70 extension to LGA, I proposed a separate bus running nonstop between Williamsburg and LGA Airport. That way, the Q70 can still serve Woodside and Jackson Heights, while the B34 can serve Brooklyn. In this case, the Q33 and the B24 will remain intact. The route map is here: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kV0BaxFBNAyI

Edited August 16, 2014 by lara8710

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

My proposal is slightly different--instead of a Q70 extension to LGA, I proposed a separate bus running nonstop between Williamsburg and LGA Airport. That way, the Q70 can still serve Woodside and Jackson Heights, while the B34 can serve Brooklyn. In this case, the Q33 and the B24 will remain intact. The route map is here: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zh758mgJc1tw.kV0BaxFBNAyI

Yeah, but do you know that the BQE gets delayed far too often? This route would be too unreliable to use. It's bad enough they moved the Downtiwn express buses from Queens off the BQE (now they stay on the LIE, into the Queens Midtown Tunnel, and down the FDR. The B24 has to use the segment only because that's the only way to get to Industrial Maspeth and 48 Street from that section of Greenpoint. That route can also be unreliable as well. Edited August 16, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[aemoreira81]

Caesar's Bay Shopping Center area.

 

The B6 currently serves this mall on its southbound trip, and it houses several big-box tenants, including Babies'R'Us, Kohl's, Best Buy, and Modell's. However, customers going the other way must ride through the loop and change buses at the Ulmer Park Depot, or must cross the Belt Parkway to walk back to Cropsey Avenue, which might be a bit impractical with large shopping bags. As such, I would propose a minor route change that would affect the B82 short-turns mostly.

 

My proposal would be as follows:

 

1. Westbound, after Bath Avenue, instead of turning left onto Cropsey Avenue, B82 short turns that currently operate to the Ulmer Park Depot wouid instead continue on Bay Parkway, stopping at Cropsey Avenue and then continuing to the last stop at the end of Bay Parkway, by the park, where buses would lay over..

2. Eastbound, the first stop would be past the first parking lot entrance. An additional stop would be made at the near side of Cropsey Avenue.

3. Early evening trips leaving Spring Creek Towers after the last short-turn trip, but until the first departure between 9 PM and 9:15 PM (inclusive), and on Saturday AM trips starting with the first trip leaving Spring Creek Towers at or after 6:30 AM. would make a diversion to Caesar's Bay Shopping Center. (Some late Saturday AM, would be truncated to this mall to avoid over-serving Coney Island.)

4. Return trips departing Coney Island after the last short turn, but before 10 PM, on Saturday AMs after 8 AM, would also divert to Caesar's Bay. (Some Saturday AM trips would be truncated to Caesar's Bay.)

 

These stops would no longer be served by diverted short turns:

 

1. Cropsey Avenue and Bay Parkway/Bay 31 Street

2. Cropsey Avenue and 23 Avenue

3. Cropsey Avenue and 24 Avenue

4. Bay 38 Street

 

When the B82 Limited is running, the B82 Limited would serve these stops.

 

I estimate that this would be cost-neutral or have a minimal cost decrease because of the slightly decreased distance in travel.

Edited August 16, 2014 by aemoreira81

[Armandito]

Yeah, but do you know that the BQE gets delayed far too often? This route would be too unreliable to use. It's bad enough they moved the Downtiwn express buses from Queens off the BQE (now they stay on the LIE, into the Queens Midtown Tunnel, and down the FDR. The B24 has to use the segment only because that's the only way to get to Industrial Maspeth and 48 Street from that section of Greenpoint. That route can also be unreliable as well.

Even the Q44 can be unreliable, especially whenever it crosses the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge during rush hours in the peak direction. I can tell because I used to frequent the Q44 and it can be quite a slow ride between the Bronx and Jamaica. Edited August 16, 2014 by lara8710