BrooklynBus Posted December 12, 2016 Share #4276 Posted December 12, 2016 B35 via Church: "compromise, you're missing a small piece of information... Superimpose a new JFK route using Clarkson instead of Church, etc. etc.... With the terminal on the Brooklyn side being, what....." The terminus would be McDonald and Church. The route would operate north on McDonald to Caton, east to Coney Island Ave, north on CIA to Park Circle, east on Parkside to Bedford, south on Bedford to Clarkson, east on Clarkson to Remsen to Clarkson to Rockaway Parkway to Linden to Conduit to JFK. Return using Winthrop between Remsen and Utica, then Utica to Clarkson to Woodruff to Ocean to Parkside to CIA to Caton to McDonald to Church. As for bus stops, they would be Limited. Intermediate stops at Coney Island and Caton, Flatbush, Rogers, Nostrand, NY, Albany, Utica, Remsen, Rockaway/ Clarkson, Rockaway Pkwy and Linden, and at Cross Bay Blvd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4277 Posted December 13, 2016 B35 via Church: "compromise, you're missing a small piece of information... Superimpose a new JFK route using Clarkson instead of Church, etc. etc.... With the terminal on the Brooklyn side being, what....." The terminus would be McDonald and Church. The route would operate north on McDonald to Caton, east to Coney Island Ave, north on CIA to Park Circle, east on Parkside to Bedford, south on Bedford to Clarkson, east on Clarkson to Remsen to Clarkson to Rockaway Parkway to Linden to Conduit to JFK. Return using Winthrop between Remsen and Utica, then Utica to Clarkson to Woodruff to Ocean to Parkside to CIA to Caton to McDonald to Church. As for bus stops, they would be Limited. Intermediate stops at Coney Island and Caton, Flatbush, Rogers, Nostrand, NY, Albany, Utica, Remsen, Rockaway/ Clarkson, Rockaway Pkwy and Linden, and at Cross Bay Blvd. I have bad news on this. Clarkson Avenue traffic poses tons of problems. With construction project(S) along clarkson with state of the art Downstate Medical Center and Health Sciences building this route will not work. Clarkson is too narrow. Between Utica and Remsen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4278 Posted December 13, 2016 The B8 ended at the terminal market at first, then got an extension to Brookdale Hospital. It looped around via Rockaway Pkwy, Church, E.98 (terminal), Hegeman, Amboy, and back onto Linden. It got extended to Rockaway Av somewhere in the early 2000s. Thanks ???? Turtle. The B8 needs to bring the short turn back to Canarsie to possibly serve the terminal market again. I know this something that the MTA hasn't really tapped into. I don't think the ridership would warrant that in the moment. However, this should be an option in the near future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4279 Posted December 13, 2016 @Eric B you keep on saying " its only four Blocks" maybe for the B35 from Mother Gastonia but not the B8. You got to Remember the B8 is the equivalent of the (3)train from Rockaway to Van Sinderen/(L) thats extra driving that some people walk when the B15 is acting up, the B8 driver got it bad enough. OK; I forgot that it ended at Rockaway. I thought they had extended both to that little park at Mother Gaston. But then for the 8, that's just an additional four blocks plus the other four, or a total of eight blocks. Not having to loop on Rockaway, perhaps then he can take Linden both ways (instead of all the turns onto Church, etc. (and that might make it a bit easier). I don't understand what the train has to do with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4280 Posted December 13, 2016 OK; I forgot that it ended at Rockaway. I thought they had extended both to that little park at Mother Gaston. But then for the 8, that's just an additional four blocks plus the other four, or a total of eight blocks. Not having to loop on Rockaway, perhaps then he can take Linden both ways (instead of all the turns onto Church, etc. (and that might make it a bit easier). I don't understand what the train has to do with it. I think he's saying that you're proposing to extend the B8 for the equivalent of one subway stop (Rockaway to Junius). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4281 Posted December 13, 2016 I have bad news on this. Clarkson Avenue traffic poses tons of problems. With construction project(S) along clarkson with state of the art Downstate Medical Center and Health Sciences building this route will not work. Clarkson is too narrow. Between Utica and Remsen. I know. I used to live there. It is too narrow for two way bus traffic which is why I proposed westbound on Winthrop and eastbound on Clarkson, between those two points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 13, 2016 Share #4282 Posted December 13, 2016 I know. I used to live there. It is too narrow for two way bus traffic which is why I proposed westbound on Winthrop and eastbound on Clarkson, between those two points. Winthrop is also a bit narrow, and you have the Kingsbrook Medical Center traffic, Kings County traffic. One would wonder how these buses would work with the traffic in the area. I'm no way trying to dispute. However, the traffic woes in the area are an attributing problem and it's not going to change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted December 15, 2016 Share #4283 Posted December 15, 2016 I was proposing Winthrop for between Utica and Remsen, so Kingsbrook and Kings County traffic is irrelevant to the discussion. It is certainly wide enough for one way bus traffic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 15, 2016 Share #4284 Posted December 15, 2016 I was proposing Winthrop for between Utica and Remsen, so Kingsbrook and Kings County traffic is irrelevant to the discussion. It is certainly wide enough for one way bus traffic. Again, Winthrop is a bit narrow. Honestly, I see you are trying to duplicate what I've proposed for the Midwood bus propsal. However, the areas you are suggesting are very TRAFFIC prone. For Midwood. It's a speeder ride especially on Kings Highway, Foster Avenue and Linden Boulevard for a direct shot to JFK. The Midwood to JFK route is pretty much essential than a Kensington-McDonald Avenue to JFK. ...... I'm just saying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armandito Posted December 16, 2016 Share #4285 Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Again, Winthrop is a bit narrow. Honestly, I see you are trying to duplicate what I've proposed for the Midwood bus propsal. However, the areas you are suggesting are very TRAFFIC prone. For Midwood. It's a speeder ride especially on Kings Highway, Foster Avenue and Linden Boulevard for a direct shot to JFK. The Midwood to JFK route is pretty much essential than a Kensington-McDonald Avenue to JFK. ...... I'm just saying. Which goes back to our B80 LTD proposal several days ago. Edited December 16, 2016 by Q44SBS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 16, 2016 Share #4286 Posted December 16, 2016 Which goes back to our B80 LTD proposal several days ago. EXACTLY!!!!!!!! I keep on saying. A Midwood to JFK Variant is BETTER than any other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armandito Posted December 18, 2016 Share #4287 Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) EXACTLY!!!!!!!! I keep on saying. A Midwood to JFK Variant is BETTER than any other.Plain, simple facts. This is the only way to go. The B35 doesn't need to be extended anywhere beyond its eastern end at Brownsville, which will only worsen its already fragile and spotty regularity of service and serve no benefit to potential JFK riders whatsoever. Even the B15 is just as sketchy--as its already long, slow, and serpentine route is hardly ever attractive enough for those specific riders if they're boarding anywhere west of that point. Think about it, how are you supposed to market a new Brooklyn-JFK route to potential riders if you know it's gonna be too long, too slow, too traffic-prone, and unreliable to attract potential riders? As stated several times before, almost ALL of southern Brooklyn's crosstown arteries west of the Brighton Line and north of Kings Highway have critical traffic problems, so there's no way a route to JFK from those neighborhoods west of the Brighton would work and live up to its promises on paper. Therefore, the only feasible second route between Brooklyn and JFK is to Midwood along Kings Highway, Foster Avenue, and Linden Boulevard (our B80 LTD proposal). Just my 2 cents for those who feel this route isn't enough. Carry on... Edited December 18, 2016 by Q44SBS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 21, 2016 Share #4288 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) B35 via Church: "compromise, you're missing a small piece of information... Superimpose a new JFK route using Clarkson instead of Church, etc. etc.... With the terminal on the Brooklyn side being, what....." The terminus would be McDonald and Church.... Alright, thanks... ....The route would operate north on McDonald to Caton, east to Coney Island Ave, north on CIA to Park Circle, east on Parkside to Bedford, south on Bedford to Clarkson, east on Clarkson to Remsen to Clarkson to Rockaway Parkway to Linden to Conduit to JFK. Return using Winthrop between Remsen and Utica, then Utica to Clarkson to Woodruff to Ocean to Parkside to CIA to Caton to McDonald to Church. As for bus stops, they would be Limited. Intermediate stops at Coney Island and Caton, Flatbush, Rogers, Nostrand, NY, Albany, Utica, Remsen, Rockaway/ Clarkson, Rockaway Pkwy and Linden, and at Cross Bay Blvd. Wasn't expecting this, but since you disclosed the routing for your route.... Only comment I have (separate from the big picture of having another Brooklyn-JFK route) for now is, I don't see the point of the routing between Church av & Parkside .... May as well start it with the B12 at Parkside , as anyone coming from off the is more apt to xferring at Jay for the to the airport.... Also, those that live around the upper part of Kensington / lower part of Windsor Terrace I can't see having much of a use for a route like this.... Best case scenario I can see, is for access for the .... Edited December 21, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 21, 2016 Share #4289 Posted December 21, 2016 Alright, thanks... Wasn't expecting this, but since you disclosed the routing for your route.... Only comment I have (separate from the big picture of having another Brooklyn-JFK route) for now is, I don't see the point of the routing between Church av & Parkside .... May as well start it with the B12 at Parkside , as anyone coming from off the is more apt to xferring at Jay for the to the airport.... Also, those that live around the upper part of Kensington / lower part of Windsor Terrace I can't see having much of a use for a route like this.... Best case scenario I can see, is for access for the .... Again. I'm trying to figure out the logic of a Parkside Avenue route to the airport. I've always felt from the beginning that you need an fast and effective route to JFK. Not most streets in Brooklyn are pretty wide. Just look and see why there's no LGA to Brooklyn bus route. Hell, look at woodside right now as prime example to why there are traffic woes in that area. So an Kensington, Windsor Terrace ride to JFK is completely out of the question. Unless this bus is going via Ocean Parkway (buses are not allowed) into Avenue J, K, or Kings Highway and heading towards Canarsie. I'm not buying it. ..... carry on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armandito Posted December 21, 2016 Share #4290 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Again. I'm trying to figure out the logic of a Parkside Avenue route to the airport. I've always felt from the beginning that you need an fast and effective route to JFK. Not most streets in Brooklyn are pretty wide. Just look and see why there's no LGA to Brooklyn bus route. Hell, look at woodside right now as prime example to why there are traffic woes in that area. So an Kensington, Windsor Terrace ride to JFK is completely out of the question. Unless this bus is going via Ocean Parkway (buses are not allowed) into Avenue J, K, or Kings Highway and heading towards Canarsie. I'm not buying it. ..... carry on I doubt a bus to JFK along those streets would be attractive enough for a decent ridership base... Edited December 21, 2016 by Q44SBS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4291 Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Again. I'm trying to figure out the logic of a Parkside Avenue route to the airport. I've always felt from the beginning that you need an fast and effective route to JFK. Not most streets in Brooklyn are pretty wide. Just look and see why there's no LGA to Brooklyn bus route. Hell, look at woodside right now as prime example to why there are traffic woes in that area. So an Kensington, Windsor Terrace ride to JFK is completely out of the question. Unless this bus is going via Ocean Parkway (buses are not allowed) into Avenue J, K, or Kings Highway and heading towards Canarsie. I'm not buying it. ..... carry on I'm not trying to defend this whole thing (as my stance is quite clear with this whole 2nd Brooklyn-JFK bus route issue), but to be a little fair, this is his compromise for not having buses run on Church instead.... I just didn't like his whole downplaying of my reasons as to why a route running to JFK via Church isn't so hot an idea..... And then voila, I'm presented with a route to JFK via Parkside/Clarkson, etc.... Although it helps, only thing I don't exactly agree with you on, is this notion that a route eventually terminating in JFK has to be a fast one (since you say, need).... It's one thing if we're talking about a route with the implicit/main purpose of transporting riders to the airport (like the Q70.... or "supposedly" the Q48) - It is quite another if the focus is inserting another fixed route into Brooklyn's bus network that has a much larger catchment area than a Q70 or Q48, regardless of the "type" (by that I mean, LTD, SBS, local) of route it is, that has an end terminal somewhere other than Woodhull on one end (B15) running to JFK.... I don't have a problem with the B15 transporting riders in & out of JFK (and that route is definitely not fast... LOL!), and I have long been tired of the B15 LTD suggestions (which is an attempt to speed things up).... To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this 2nd JFK-Brooklyn bus route topic was mainly about speed, but more, (wanting to) connecting other areas of Brooklyn to the airport.... That's all I got for now... ------------ side note: Is the Q70 still considered to be a fixed route, or is it a point to point? Edited December 23, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4292 Posted December 23, 2016 I'm not trying to defend this whole thing (as my stance is quite clear with this whole 2nd Brooklyn-JFK bus route issue), but to be a little fair, this is his compromise for not having buses run on Church instead.... I just didn't like his whole downplaying of my reasons as to why a route running to JFK via Church isn't so hot an idea..... And then voila, I'm presented with a route to JFK via Parkside/Clarkson, etc.... Although it helps, only thing I don't exactly agree with you on, is this notion that a route eventually terminating in JFK has to be a fast one (since you say, need).... It's one thing if we're talking about a route with the implicit/main purpose of transporting riders to the airport (like the Q70.... or "supposedly" the Q48) - It is quite another if the focus is inserting another fixed route into Brooklyn's bus network that has a much larger catchment area than a Q70 or Q48, regardless of the "type" (by that I mean, LTD, SBS, local) of route it is, that has an end terminal somewhere other than Woodhull on one end (B15) running to JFK.... I don't have a problem with the B15 transporting riders in & out of JFK (and that route is definitely not fast... LOL!), and I have long been tired of the B15 LTD suggestions (which is an attempt to speed things up).... To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this 2nd JFK-Brooklyn bus route topic was mainly about speed, but more, (wanting to) connecting other areas of Brooklyn to the airport.... That's all I got for now... ------------ side note: Is the Q70 still considered to be a fixed route, or is it a point to point? Pretty sure point to point. Destination sign doesn't change anymore I believe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4293 Posted December 23, 2016 I'm not trying to defend this whole thing (as my stance is quite clear with this whole 2nd Brooklyn-JFK bus route issue), but to be a little fair, this is his compromise for not having buses run on Church instead.... I just didn't like his whole downplaying of my reasons as to why a route running to JFK via Church isn't so hot an idea..... And then voila, I'm presented with a route to JFK via Parkside/Clarkson, etc.... Although it helps, only thing I don't exactly agree with you on, is this notion that a route eventually terminating in JFK has to be a fast one (since you say, need).... It's one thing if we're talking about a route with the implicit/main purpose of transporting riders to the airport (like the Q70.... or "supposedly" the Q48) - It is quite another if the focus is inserting another fixed route into Brooklyn's bus network that has a much larger catchment area than a Q70 or Q48, regardless of the "type" (by that I mean, LTD, SBS, local) of route it is, that has an end terminal somewhere other than Woodhull on one end (B15) running to JFK.... I don't have a problem with the B15 transporting riders in & out of JFK (and that route is definitely not fast... LOL!), and I have long been tired of the B15 LTD suggestions (which is an attempt to speed things up).... To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this 2nd JFK-Brooklyn bus route topic was mainly about speed, but more, (wanting to) connecting other areas of Brooklyn to the airport.... That's all I got for now... ------------ side note: Is the Q70 still considered to be a fixed route, or is it a point to point? With this whole church avenue thing to JFK from the start I wasn't in full agreement. Also, with the Parkside/Clarkson/Remsen thingy. Still not really In full agreement either. The sole purpose of the B80LTD Midwood to JFK is not only to transport passengers to the airport, but also give another alternatives and at times overcrowding on the buses forementioned on the board in previous posts. Yes, speed and reliability is important. However, the determining factor was how would a Midwood to JFK operate with traffic conditions unlike the other counterparts mentioned for the study. The current B15 is so bad. Bad in so many ways. Too bad we can't get the short turn B10- Spring Creek // Drew Street to WoodHull Hospital back up and running and deal with B15 plagued delays for a route that can take up to 90 mins + from Bed-Stuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4294 Posted December 23, 2016 Pretty sure point to point. Destination sign doesn't change anymore I believe. They change it upon reaching the first stop in LGA (they just loop around LGA and back to the LIRR). It's essentially a loop service, and the schedule is set up in such way too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4295 Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) With this whole church avenue thing to JFK from the start I wasn't in full agreement. Also, with the Parkside/Clarkson/Remsen thingy. Still not really In full agreement either. The sole purpose of the B80LTD Midwood to JFK is not only to transport passengers to the airport, but also give another alternatives and at times overcrowding on the buses forementioned on the board in previous posts. Yes, speed and reliability is important. However, the determining factor was how would a Midwood to JFK operate with traffic conditions unlike the other counterparts mentioned for the study. The current B15 is so bad. Bad in so many ways. Too bad we can't get the short turn B10- Spring Creek // Drew Street to WoodHull Hospital back up and running and deal with B15 plagued delays for a route that can take up to 90 mins + from Bed-Stuy. - I can understand wanting to fill that gap (Clarkson), but I personally don't agree with it.... I feel the same way about Empire, but if push came to shove, I would fill the Empire Blvd gap before I'd bother with the Clarkson av. one..... Regardless, I wouldn't have any route that would fill either of those gaps in service running to JFK.... That's where BrooklynBus loses me; the JFK aspect of it all.... Kensington to JFK won't attract many ppl. in this borough (and as I've already mentioned, I don't see much of anyone taking the route for intermediary purposes either)... For as much as we (in this transit community) state that riders don't pay attention to destination signs, you will have some that actually look at destination signs & come to this absurd conclusion that a route ONLY runs to the shown destination on the signange - As if every bus route is a point to point one.... - Your 2nd paragraph there is essentially a speed argument though.... That conclusion is certainly backed by your prior mentioning of possible signal priority, as well as the fact that your route has to be LTD.... - The main problem I have with the B15 isn't its end to end terminal; you can't beat the catchment area of that route (it's not stupidly long & drawn out like the M4 is).... I'm fond of modified grid routes anyway, and the B15 fits the bill (same way I feel about the M60 btw)..... But anyway, yeah, the issue I have is how many trips are a] running end to end & b] are running out of Woodhull, compared to running out of JFK..... I would argue that service to JFK on the B15 is under-served (this is why I'd have B20's restructured to end at Lefferts Airtrain).... On the same token, what I don't particularly like about splitting the B15 is that the northern portion might get too much of the shaft...... --------------- ....to sum that last paragraph up, I would not split the B15 up.... The route in that immediate part of Brooklyn I'd split up with the quickness is the B47.... We (you & I, Future) have posted in length on here about how bad the B47 is, in the past.... I don't see the B15 being near as bad as the B47, to the tune that the B15 should be broken up.... That's how I'm seeing it. ...which (somewhat) segues into a side discussion I want to kick off.... (as quite frankly, the JFK bit has been beaten to death in this thread the past 2 or so weeks) Within Ocean Hill & Bed Stuy, the vast amount of the bus usage panning north-south obviously goes to the B44 & the B46..... Between the B43, B47, B7, and B15 though, none of those routes really carry heavy in that area of the borough.... As I'm typing, I'm trying to discern which of those 4 routes sees more usage over the other, and I can't definitively/easily do it.... Guess I'll just talk/type it out as I go along: * The NB B7 tends to die at Fulton (but SB from Halsey sees loads; this is due to the epic layovers that's taken on that route, combined with just how infrequent the route is).... * The B43 I'd say is the most consistently used of the 4... Of course, the B43 doesn't have near as many problems plaguing the route as the other 3..... The one merge I undeniably agreed made sense when it was done.... Still isn't heavily used along Tompkins/Throop itself though... * The B15 & the B47 are both used similiarly; which is somewhat odd, as the B47 is far more unreliable than the B15.... The B7 to Ridgewood is often brought up, but I have thought about how a (split) B47 to Ridgewood (instead of to Woodhull) via the B52 would pan out, compared to the utilization that the B47 currently gets in/out of Woodhull..... I don't know how things are now, but the B15 used to get more usage out of Woodhull itself over the B47, but the B47 along Ralph would get more usage than the B15 b/w Woodhull & Ralph/St. Johns (neither, inclusive)..... Edited December 23, 2016 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4296 Posted December 23, 2016 They change it upon reaching the first stop in LGA (they just loop around LGA and back to the LIRR). It's essentially a loop service, and the schedule is set up in such way too. ....just like the M60, which is clearly a fixed route. If buses aren't ending at MAT, then buses are not having any real layover in LGA..... Out of all the criticisms that airport gets by airline travelers, I'm going to add one more - I never cared for LGA's layout anyway (the whole airport).... EWR I'd say accommodates public buses best of the major airports around NYC.... I like JFK's layout & how extensive & expansive the airport is, but the way buses end at T5 (which was supposed to be makeshift), and even how buses ended at T4 when they did, has always been *whatever* to me.... ISP is simply pathetic, even HPN for the BL-12 is better.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4297 Posted December 23, 2016 - I can understand wanting to fill that gap (Clarkson), but I personally don't agree with it.... I feel the same way about Empire, but if push came to shove, I would fill the Empire Blvd gap before I'd bother with the Clarkson av. one..... Regardless, I wouldn't have any route that would fill either of those gaps in service running to JFK.... That's where BrooklynBus loses me; the JFK aspect of it all.... Kensington to JFK won't attract many ppl. in this borough (and as I've already mentioned, I don't see much of anyone taking the route for intermediary purposes either)... For as much as we (in this transit community) state that riders don't pay attention to destination signs, you will have some that actually look at destination signs & come to this absurd conclusion that a route ONLY runs to the shown destination on the signange - As if every bus route is a point to point one.... - Your 2nd paragraph there is essentially a speed argument though.... That conclusion is certainly backed by your prior mentioning of possible signal priority, as well as the fact that your route has to be LTD.... - The main problem I have with the B15 isn't its end to end terminal; you can't beat the catchment area of that route (it's not stupidly long & drawn out like the M4 is).... I'm fond of modified grid routes anyway, and the B15 fits the bill (same way I feel about the M60 btw)..... But anyway, yeah, the issue I have is how many trips are a] running end to end & b] are running out of Woodhull, compared to running out of JFK..... I would argue that service to JFK on the B15 is under-served (this is why I'd have B20's restructured to end at Lefferts Airtrain).... On the same token, what I don't particularly like about splitting the B15 is that the northern portion might get too much of the shaft...... --------------- ....to sum that last paragraph up, I would not split the B15 up.... The route in that immediate part of Brooklyn I'd split up with the quickness is the B47.... We (you & I, Future) have posted in length on here about how bad the B47 is, in the past.... I don't see the B15 being near as bad as the B47, to the tune that the B15 should be broken up.... That's how I'm seeing it. ...which (somewhat) segues into a side discussion I want to kick off.... (as quite frankly, the JFK bit has been beaten to death in this thread the past 2 or so weeks) Within Ocean Hill & Bed Stuy, the vast amount of the bus usage panning north-south obviously goes to the B44 & the B46..... Between the B43, B47, B7, and B15 though, none of those routes really carry heavy in that area of the borough.... As I'm typing, I'm trying to discern which of those 4 routes sees more usage over the other, and I can't definitively/easily do it.... Guess I'll just talk/type it out as I go along: * The NB B7 tends to die at Fulton (but SB from Halsey sees loads; this is due to the epic layovers that's taken on that route, combined with just how infrequent the route is).... * The B43 I'd say is the most consistently used of the 4... Of course, the B43 doesn't have near as many problems plaguing the route as the other 3..... The one merge I undeniably agreed made sense when it was done.... Still isn't heavily used along Tompkins/Throop itself though... * The B15 & the B47 are both used similiarly; which is somewhat odd, as the B47 is far more unreliable than the B15.... The B7 to Ridgewood is often brought up, but I have thought about how a (split) B47 to Ridgewood (instead of to Woodhull) via the B52 would pan out, compared to the utilization that the B47 currently gets in/out of Woodhull..... I don't know how things are now, but the B15 used to get more usage out of Woodhull itself over the B47, but the B47 along Ralph would get more usage than the B15 b/w Woodhull & Ralph/St. Johns (neither inclusive)..... Essentially, I could take up a B47 discussion to Ridgewood. Now the question is where do your terminate or possibly would be a Grand Avenue vs Fresh Pond all depending on the terminal. I'm all for a Ridgewood Terminal with this line. As much as we talked about JFK within the last 2 weeks. However, it is noted that we brought an important issue in Brooklyn especially in Central, Southeast Brooklyn into East New York. The other bus lines formentioned carry a decent amount. However, at the end of everything things just simply need to connect with the Brooklyn Transportation Network. I like the idea of possibly extending the B20 to Lefferts Boulevard- Airtrain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4298 Posted December 23, 2016 Alright, thanks... Wasn't expecting this, but since you disclosed the routing for your route.... Only comment I have (separate from the big picture of having another Brooklyn-JFK route) for now is, I don't see the point of the routing between Church av & Parkside .... May as well start it with the B12 at Parkside , as anyone coming from off the is more apt to xferring at Jay for the to the airport.... Also, those that live around the upper part of Kensington / lower part of Windsor Terrace I can't see having much of a use for a route like this.... Best case scenario I can see, is for access for the .... The point of McDonald Church instead of Parkside as the terminus was not to serve the F also, (although that is a side benefit), it was to provide a transfer to the B35 to enable use of the route for some Sunset Park residents to provide them with two bus access to JFK instead of three bus and two fares. The extra distance is not that much and there is nowhere to turn at Ocean and Church which also would have provided B35 access. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 23, 2016 Share #4299 Posted December 23, 2016 The point of McDonald Church instead of Parkside as the terminus was not to serve the F also, (although that is a side benefit), it was to provide a transfer to the B35 to enable use of the route for some Sunset Park residents to provide them with two bus access to JFK instead of three bus and two fares. The extra distance is not that much and there is nowhere to turn at Ocean and Church which also would have provided B35 access. Good... So the implication I'm taking from this is that you really want the entire B35 running to JFK, not just from McDonald..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armandito Posted December 24, 2016 Share #4300 Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) The point of McDonald Church instead of Parkside as the terminus was not to serve the F also, (although that is a side benefit), it was to provide a transfer to the B35 to enable use of the route for some Sunset Park residents to provide them with two bus access to JFK instead of three bus and two fares. The extra distance is not that much and there is nowhere to turn at Ocean and Church which also would have provided B35 access.Let's all just leave the B35 as is... Now back to our B80 LTD again. If the route eventually comes to life, about how many daily riders would it serve? (Just give a rough estimate) Edited December 24, 2016 by Q44SBS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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