Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Threxx]

 

Well, SI local riders aren't "affluent" enough in his opinion to matter to him, so I don't think he'd care. He actually proposed to have the S74 eliminated because "It's all project folks on that line". I kid you not. See the posts:

 

http://www.nyctransi...le/#entry390826

http://www.nyctransi...le/#entry390970

 

Says the guy who's too scared to go anywhere near the "I gots not change" line. How do you know so much about a line you barely rode?

 

And where are you coming up with this BS about "the line gets more and more attention"? It's always had frequent service.

 

And you're telling me that all the regular, paying people should have to deal with overcrowded buses because "there are too many farebeaters"? And aside from that, you don't think the B4 gets any farebeaters?

 

And yeah, the S46 has such good service. That would explain why I've waited as long as 35 minutes for a bus at 4 in the afternoon (and it wasn't like a bus passed us because it was full. No bus passed at all. Plus, there have been plenty of times when I was either flagged or had to fight to get on to avoid being flagged). You realize what would happen if you cut service? The buses would flag even more people, including the paying riders.

 

Oh, but it's alright, though, because there aren't any "affluent" people riding on those buses.

 

See my post above. Believe me, he doesn't care.

 

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day. They should really give you a few more opportunities to give thanks.

 

 

I can't believe he said that s**t that project residents are savages. This is what I'm talking about. I respect his ideas, but he tends to go on about his affluence, and he has made several condescending comments about blacks & poor people. The whole double standard. So just because there was one problem on the S74 you have to freaking cut it? BS. And since the B46 goes through poor neighborhoods and has a farebeating problem, you have to cut it? B46's are flagging people just like on the S46. (See the similarity? ) A bus every 2 minutes and people are being flagged! And he wants to CUT service on these routes? SMH...

 

Your thanks is accepted.

[checkmatechamp13]

I can't believe he said that s**t that project residents are savages. This is what I'm talking about. I respect his ideas, but he tends to go on about his affluence, and he has made several condescending comments about blacks & poor people. The whole double standard. So just because there was one problem on the S74 you have to freaking cut it? BS. And since the B46 goes through poor neighborhoods and has a farebeating problem, you have to cut it? B46's are flagging people just like on the S46. (See the similarity? ) A bus every 2 minutes and people are being flagged! And he wants to CUT service on these routes? SMH...

 

Your thanks is accepted.

 

 

Well, I'm sure it's a lot worse on the B46. Now that I think about it, the Q46 gets good ridership as well. So if you want to make a route

successful, just assign it the number 46.

 

And even on the B46, it's not all the neighborhoods it goes through are poor. The whole Flatlands/Georgetown area is easily middle class, and if you cut service there, they'd be affected as well (of course, it does pass through some poorer neighborhoods, but that doesn't mean they should get less service). But I guess it's just like Canarsie, where he made it out to be a poor, crime-filled slum just because it's mostly Black.

[Future ENY OP]

But I guess it's just like Canarsie, where he made it out to be a poor, crime-filled slum just because it's mostly Black.

 

 

Canarsie = Poor? That's an understatement there.. I've lived in canarsie for sometime. It has changed, however, its still a middle class community, of course you have your crime areas, but for the most part it's stil safe. (imo)

 

I do agree with you in regards to the certain areas the B46 touch. Granted not all areas are poor, if you eliminate some of the service b/w Avenue H & Kings Plaza.. That whole area would go hell. (I'm part of that majority that lives in East Flatbush/Ave H area).

[Future ENY OP]

If anyone thinks the B46 or Staten Island has a farebeating problem..

Take a trip into Canarsie & Rockaway Parkway. (It has beefed up NYPD presence in lieu to farebeaters and dealing the problem) and I've seen it late nights (ESPECIALLY) when people try to farebeat at Rockaway Parkway whether it is via the B42 or going thru the garage into the train station b/c there's always a cruiser chilling at or near the train station.

 

Now, if you beef up some plainclothes officers on heavy utilized lines b/w Flatbush & East New York, and also CITYWIDE part of the problem may be solved. Not saying the whole problem will be solved, but it gives the message to farebeaters, if you are going to cheat the system you are going to pay.

[B35 via Church]

I personally don't care what routes anyone's been on.... either way, it's stupid to suggest cutting service on a route with a farebeating problem for that reason...... and that isn't defending the farebeaters either - It's defending the NON farebeaters.....

 

 

Now suddenly farebeating isn't such a big problem on the B46?

It isn't such a big problem during the late night hours..... Nobody is saying farebeating isn't a big problem on the B46 in general.....

 

 

As for the comments about reducing B46 service, well if you lived in an area of Brooklyn where they have NO local bus service now and you saw a line like the B46 with tons of farebeaters on it and you have to spend money for car service or what have you while thousands of individuals get to ride for free with great frequencies tell me how you would feel?

 

Sheepshead Bay riders are FAR more concerned with the lack of service in their area, than they are some other route that runs nowhere near their area that has a problem with farebeaters..... You're gonna have to come better than this whole appeal to emotion bit, to justify cutting service on a route for the reason you're giving.....

 

I don't know where in the world you get off thinking that cutting some service on some line would somehow dwindle the amount of farebeaters on it....... If anything, the problem might end up being exacerbated......

 

 

When you're talking about hourly headways, I think everybody cares how often the buses are running, even farebeaters. It's just that paying riders would care more. But if nothing else, hourly headways means that if the B/O doesn't let you on the bus, you have to wait a full hour for the next one.

 

In any case, it's a moot point because during the overnight hours, the vast majority of riders pay.

Sorry, but I don't see farebeaters worrying about what headways some route has, even if it is hourly...... Opportunists generally don't care about the inner workings of whatever it is they're tryna cheat/get by with, especially if money isn't going directly into their hands.... They only care if they get away with it successfully.....

 

Your latter point though, is the crux of what I was gettin at in my last post.....

 

 

Do you think Sheepshead Bay losing service has anything to do with the B46's high amount of service? News flash, it dosen't! The B46 has always had a high amount of service......

 

**mortalkombatfinishhim.gif**

 

'nuff said.

[checkmatechamp13]

Sorry, but I don't see farebeaters worrying about what headways some route has, even if it is hourly...... Opportunists generally don't care about the inner workings of whatever it is they're tryna cheat/get by with, especially if money isn't going directly into their hands.... They only care if they get away with it successfully.....

 

 

But it's not a matter of inner workings, because the headways of the routes actually affect them, because it affects the time they'll reach their destination. Maybe they're not as time-conscious as the fare-paying riders, but I'm sure they care about the headways. If the headway is too long, they'll say "**** this" and just walk, when they would've preferred to take the bus. (And no, VG8, this has nothing to do with "defending" farebeaters)

[B35 via Church]

But I guess it's just like Canarsie, where he made it out to be a poor, crime-filled slum just because it's mostly Black.

Sounds like something Roadcruiser would say.... Him & his disdain for Canarsie.....

 

 

....And since the B46 goes through poor neighborhoods and has a farebeating problem, you have to cut it?

 

I'm not even entertaining the whole socio-economics of it all right now b/c it's nothin more than a smokescreen to what's being discussed..... Even if someone thought the B46 has too much service, fine....

But don't use the amount of farebeaters on the line as a reason to wanna cut service... That reason in & of itself is not logical at all.....

 

 

Maybe they're not as time-conscious as the fare-paying riders, but I'm sure they care about the headways.

 

If the headway is too long, they'll say "**** this" and just walk, when they would've preferred to take the bus.

 

Of a bus route, the idea/notion of headways consist of inner workings.... It's a measure of service....

 

More to the (side) point though.... A farebeater sees a bus at a stop when they get to the stop, they're lookin to hop the back of that sucker..... (If) That bus is not there (or in the near distance), they'll start walking until the bus they're tryna farebeat on gets closer to a nearby stop they're walking toward... and of course, they'll wait to see if it's a crowded enough bus to where they can get in through the back.....

 

Yes, they're definitely aren't (as) time conscious, which is why the notion of whether the bus runs every 2,5,10,15, 30, 60 mins. is all moot (to them).....

[Threxx]

This whole cutting the B46 this is a load of BS. Let's just end it here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Well, SI local riders aren't "affluent" enough in his opinion to matter to him, so I don't think he'd care. He actually proposed to have the S74 eliminated because "It's all project folks on that line". I kid you not. See the posts:

 

http://www.nyctransi...le/#entry390826

http://www.nyctransi...le/#entry390970

 

That's ridiculous... How about you give the full reference of those quotes... Yeah I stand by them... If B/Os are being assaulted on the S74, which was what we were discussing when I made that comment, then yeah let them walk.

 

Says the guy who's too scared to go anywhere near the "I gots not change" line. How do you know so much about a line you barely rode?

 

When I used the S48 to get to and from the ferry I would sit and watch the number of S46s and S96s that would come in comparison to the S48s and S98s and for a while they had S96 Limited stop service running wayyy later than we did. Our S98 service ended at 19:30 but they had S96 service until 22:00 at least. Once me and a guy looked at each other and I said, can you believe this??? The project folks get all of those buses and meanwhile the working folks can't even get any service. And no I don't have a problem saying it either. The working class folks pay the taxes and we should get the service.

 

And where are you coming up with this BS about "the line gets more and more attention"? It's always had frequent service.

 

Yeah... More farebeaters and more calls for more service... More and more attention...

 

And you're telling me that all the regular, paying people should have to deal with overcrowded buses because "there are too many farebeaters"? And aside from that, you don't think the B4 gets any farebeaters?

 

I doubt that the B4 has as high of a farebeating percentage as the B46 does... Ahem...

 

And yeah, the S46 has such good service. That would explain why I've waited as long as 35 minutes for a bus at 4 in the afternoon (and it wasn't like a bus passed us because it was full. No bus passed at all. Plus, there have been plenty of times when I was either flagged or had to fight to get on to avoid being flagged).

 

Oh please... Those folks along the S46 have been pampered way too long. The working class folks along Forest Avenue have been shafted in terms of decent service for the longest time. Only recently has the S48 become a little better.

 

You realize what would happen if you cut service? The buses would flag even more people, including the paying riders.

 

Oh, but it's alright, though, because there aren't any "affluent" people riding on those buses.

Well then either deal with the farebeating problem or that's what I would do. 35% farebeater rate is ridiculous... That's thousands or riders not paying and other communities are shafted.

 

 

 

I can't believe he said that s**t that project residents are savages. This is what I'm talking about. I respect his ideas, but he tends to go on about his affluence, and he has made several condescending comments about blacks & poor people. The whole double standard. So just because there was one problem on the S74 you have to freaking cut it? BS. And since the B46 goes through poor neighborhoods and has a farebeating problem, you have to cut it? B46's are flagging people just like on the S46. (See the similarity? ) A bus every 2 minutes and people are being flagged! And he wants to CUT service on these routes? SMH...

Oh please... You clearly read what you wanted to in those links... The post was in reference to how B/Os were getting attacked by folks. The comment was justified.

 

This whole cutting the B46 this is a load of BS. Let's just end it here.

 

 

So in other words, the should continue to provide more and more service when the farebox recovery is becoming smaller and smaller on the line is that right?? As for the restoration of the M50, that was only possible because one portion of the route was shortened, which provided enough savings to restore the lost service on the line, so it wasn't like the did it just because.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

1) That's ridiculous... How about you give the full reference of those quotes... Yeah I stand by them... If B/Os are being assaulted on the S74, which was what we were discussing when I made that comment, then yeah let them walk.

 

2) When I used the S48 to get to and from the ferry I would sit and watch the number of S46s and S96s that would come in comparison to the S48s and S98s and for a while they had S96 Limited stop service running wayyy later than we did. Our S98 service ended at 19:30 but they have S96 service until 22:00 at least. Once me and a guy looked at each other and I said, can you believe this??? The project folks get all of those buses and meanwhile the working folks can't even get any service. And no I don't have a problem saying it either. The working class folks pay the taxes and we should get the service.

 

3) Yeah... More farebeaters and more calls for more service... More and more attention...

 

4) Oh please... You clearly read what you wanted to in those links... The post was in reference to how B/Os were getting attacked by folks. The comment was justified.

 

5) So in other words, the should continue to provide more and more service when the farebox recovery is becoming smaller and smaller on the line is that right?? As for the restoration of the M50, that was only possible because one portion of the route was shortened, which provided enough savings to restore the lost service on the line, so it wasn't like the did it just because.

 

 

1) The B/O wasn't being assaulted. It was 2 other passengers who were assaulted and apparently they knew the people who assaulted them and had some bad blood between them, and they fought on the bus. It just so happened on the bus, but it could've just as easily happened on the street.

 

2) Yeah, and they fixed that, didn't they? The S98 runs until 22:00 as well now. And in any case, there's more to the S46 route than projects. Central Mariners' Harbor actually has a higher median income than your part of West Brighton and the same exact poverty rate, and the part of Elm Park the S46 runs through has an even higher median income and lower poverty rate than your part of West Brighton.

 

Plus, weekend service is better on the S48 than the S46. The S48 runs at 12 minute headways and the S46 runs at 15 minute headways.

 

3) Except that at the time we're discussing, farebeating is close to nothing.

 

4) Yeah, OK. The article reads "2 teens slashed, pummeled aboard bus in Tompkinsville", and like I said (and the article also said), it seems as if the kids knew each other, so that incident could've just as easily happened in the street. It had nothing to do with B/Os being assaulted.

 

And besides, if the S74 was eliminated, what would serve all those "affluent" neighborhoods on the South Shore?

 

5) Yeah, and the farebox recovery ratio is still higher than a whole lot of other routes, so yeah, it should still get that service.

 

But yeah, you're right about the M50.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) The B/O wasn't being assaulted. It was 2 other passengers who were assaulted and apparently they knew the people who assaulted them and had some bad blood between them, and they fought on the bus. It just so happened on the bus, but it could've just as easily happened on the street.

 

In that same thread a B/O talked about how he had been assaulted...

 

2) Yeah, and they fixed that, didn't they? The S98 runs until 22:00 as well now. And in any case, there's more to the S46 route than projects. Central Mariners' Harbor actually has a higher median income than your part of West Brighton and the same exact poverty rate, and the part of Elm Park the S46 runs through has an even higher median income and lower poverty rate than your part of West Brighton.

 

Oh boy, here we go again with the Mariners' Harbor has such a "high" median income...

 

Plus, weekend service is better on the S48 than the S46. The S48 runs at 12 minute headways and the S46 runs at 15 minute headways.

 

Oh my, 3 minutes difference... Such a difference in service for Forest Avenue...

 

3) Except that at the time we're discussing, farebeating is close to nothing.

 

Well my proposal would reduce B46 service where possible. If the B46 isn't going to be a SBS line, then they should have payment be made curbside and have inspectors on the bus to check. 35% farebeating percentage is unacceptable with all of the service that line gets. But that's okay... The folks in Bath Beach, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, Sheepshead Bay and Bergen Beach that have seen their service cut back, reduced or eliminated... They can just take car service...

 

And besides, if the S74 was eliminated, what would serve all those "affluent" neighborhoods on the South Shore?

 

Like tons of folks on the South Shore use the local buses...

 

5) Yeah, and the farebox recovery ratio is still higher than a whole lot of other routes, so yeah, it should still get that service.

 

 

Yeah I bet it should while other communities in Brooklyn have to pay for car service.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) In that same thread a B/O talked about how he had been assaulted...

 

2) Oh boy, here we go again with the Mariners' Harbor has such a "high" median income...

 

3) Oh my, 3 minutes difference... Such a difference in service for Forest Avenue...

 

4) Well my proposal would reduce B46 service where possible. If the B46 isn't going to be a SBS line, then they should have payment be made curbside and have inspectors on the bus to check. 35% farebeating percentage is unacceptable with all of the service that line gets. But that's okay... The folks in Bath Beach, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, Sheepshead Bay and Bergen Beach that have seen their service cut back, reduced or eliminated... They can just take car service...

 

5) Like tons of folks on the South Shore use the local buses...

 

6) Yeah I bet it should while other communities in Brooklyn have to pay for car service.

 

 

1) He didn't say it was on the S74, though.

 

2) Can't argue with the stats. Face it, you used to live in an area equivalent to Central Mariners' Habor.

 

3) Yes, because that's 20% more service than on the S46. But I guess since you don't appreciate the extra service, they can just cut it back to the old 15 minute service, since it's "only 3 minutes".

 

4) Payment made before boarding is what +SBS+ is.

 

5) Oh, so it would be alright if they just eliminated the S55, S56, S74, and S78, right? Hell, the S54 didn't get great ridership, but we can just eliminate that as well, right? Even though you kept on insisting it should be kept.

 

6) And you keep on ignoring the fact that the amount of farebeating in the overnight hours is close to nothing, and the overnight service is what we're discussing. B35 himself said it and he lives in the immediate area. And based on the experience on lines I've rode late in the evening, the same holds true on other lines, so it makes sense that it would hold true on the B46.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) He didn't say it was on the S74, though.

 

Doesn't matter... The S74 is a known route with farebeating problems, violence and so on.

 

2) Can't argue with the stats. Face it, you used to live in an area equivalent to Central Mariners' Habor.

 

Uh no.... The only thing that would hold down West Brighton's income levels are those projects that they claim are in West Brighton...

 

3) Yes, because that's 20% more service than on the S46. But I guess since you don't appreciate the extra service, they can just cut it back to the old 15 minute service, since it's "only 3 minutes".

 

And the S48 could use more than that...

 

4) Payment made before boarding is what +SBS+ is.

 

I know what it is. The idea was if the entire SBS set up couldn't be put on the line, they could at least have the pay before boarding feature added.

 

5) Oh, so it would be alright if they just eliminated the S55, S56, S74, and S78, right? Hell, the S54 didn't get great ridership, but we can just eliminate that as well, right? Even though you kept on insisting it should be kept.

You and Amtrak were advocating for cutting North-South service, so I'm sure you would love that.

 

6) And you keep on ignoring the fact that the amount of farebeating in the overnight hours is close to nothing, and the overnight service is what we're discussing. B35 himself said it and he lives in the immediate area. And based on the experience on lines I've rode late in the evening, the same holds true on other lines, so it makes sense that it would hold true on the B46.

 

 

And I SAID I would reduce service where possible. I didn't specify when and quite frankly there isn't anything to cut on a local bus with hourly headways at night.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Doesn't matter... The S74 is a known route with farebeating problems, violence and so on.

 

2) Uh no.... The only thing that would hold down West Brighton's income levels are those projects that they claim are in West Brighton...

 

3) And the S48 could use more than that...

 

4) I know what it is. The idea was if the entire SBS set up couldn't be put on the line, they could at least have the pay before boarding feature added.

 

5) You and Amtrak were advocating for cutting North-South service, so I'm sure you would love that.

 

6) And I SAID I would reduce service where possible. I didn't specify when and quite frankly there isn't anything to cut on a local bus with hourly headways at night.

 

 

1) What the hell are you talking about? The S74 isn't known for violence.

 

2) Nice try. I was only talking about your specific census tract, which does not include the projects. The projects are listed seperately.

 

Median income in the West Brighton Houses: $14,815

Median income in your part of West Brighton (Broadway-Clove Road-Cary Avenue): $50,900

Median income in Central Mariners' Harbor (Harbor Road-Forest Avenue-Simonson Avenue-train tracks): $56,401

 

If anybody's wondering how it relates to this, he feels the "affluent neighborhoods" always get short-changed by the MTA.

 

3) It's still more service than the S46 gets.

 

4) Just making sure.

 

5) Did I ever say it should be eliminated completely? No, I said it should be restructured to be more efficient, and then if that doesn't work, then eliminate weekend service.

 

6) I'm asking for overnight service to be improved to every 20-30 minutes. If there are very few farebeaters riding at that time, what's the problem with adding service if there is a demand for it?

[Threxx]

That's ridiculous... How about you give the full reference of those quotes... Yeah I stand by them... If B/Os are being assaulted on the S74, which was what we were discussing when I made that comment, then yeah let them walk.

 

 

Just read the title of the article there. Nuff said.

 

When I used the S48 to get to and from the ferry I would sit and watch the number of S46s and S96s that would come in comparison to the S48s and S98s and for a while they had S96 Limited stop service running wayyy later than we did. Our S98 service ended at 19:30 but they had S96 service until 22:00 at least. Once me and a guy looked at each other and I said, can you believe this??? The project folks get all of those buses and meanwhile the working folks can't even get any service. And no I don't have a problem saying it either. The working class folks pay the taxes and we should get the service.

 

 

Bullsh**! So you're saying just because they live in the projects they don't work and they don't pay taxes? That is the most out-of-touch, stuck-up thing I have heard you say in a while. They do work, how do you think they afford the damn rent? They pay taxes just like you! Get your facts straight before you say something like that!

 

I doubt that the B4 has as high of a farebeating percentage as the B46 does... Ahem...

 

Well then either deal with the farebeating problem or that's what I would do. 35% farebeater rate is ridiculous... That's thousands or riders not paying and other communities are shafted.

 

 

Yes, but there are farebeaters on every line in this city...

 

Anyway, you say the problem is farebeating, right? THEN WHY CUT SERVICE? That's just going to punish everyone and not solve the problem? Or do you not have the guts to say that you want to cut service there just because the B46 goes through poor neighborhoods and they aren't "affluent" enough to deserve it?

 

 

Oh please... You clearly read what you wanted to in those links... The post was in reference to how B/Os were getting attacked by folks. The comment was justified.

 

So in other words, the should continue to provide more and more service when the farebox recovery is becoming smaller and smaller on the line is that right?? As for the restoration of the M50, that was only possible because one portion of the route was shortened, which provided enough savings to restore the lost service on the line, so it wasn't like the did it just because.

 

 

I read what I saw, ok? Not only did you screw up what the incident was about, you started comparing plants & animals.

 

The M50 was shortened 5 blocks. I doubt they saved enough to restore all weekend service.

[Threxx]

1) What the hell are you talking about? The S74 isn't known for violence.

 

2) Nice try. I was only talking about your specific census tract, which does not include the projects. The projects are listed seperately.

 

Median income in the West Brighton Houses: $14,815

Median income in your part of West Brighton (Broadway-Clove Road-Cary Avenue): $50,900

Median income in Central Mariners' Harbor (Harbor Road-Forest Avenue-Simonson Avenue-train tracks): $56,401

 

If anybody's wondering how it relates to this, he feels the "affluent neighborhoods" always get short-changed by the MTA.

 

3) It's still more service than the S46 gets.

 

4) Just making sure.

 

5) Did I ever say it should be eliminated completely? No, I said it should be restructured to be more efficient, and then if that doesn't work, then eliminate weekend service.

 

6) I'm asking for overnight service to be improved to every 20-30 minutes. If there are very few farebeaters riding at that time, what's the problem with adding service if there is a demand for it?

 

 

2) Yeah, they get shortchanged because they can AFFORD they alternatives! Why take away service from neighborhoods where they can't afford it and make up bulls*** excuses like farebeating & violence. He just dosen't have the b***s to say he is socio-economically biased.

[B35 via Church]

I referenced this in the chatbox last night....This isn't an proposal, but I don't want to create a separate thread for this....

I'll make this a 2 part question, to keep it on topic..... The first one is what I'm really inquiring about though.....

 

 

1) Does anyone know why they moved the JFK airport routes from terminal 4 to terminal 5?

I hope this isn't permanent....

 

I rode the B15 earlier this morning (speaking of early morning runs.... I caught the B15 at church/E 98th around 4:30... we got to JFK a little after 5am), and where they have the buses situated is not all that convenient for bus riders at all.... As I also made a reference to in the chatbox, there were more passengers (than usual) that got off at the Lefferts Blvd AIRTrain station.... Outside of myself, there were 4 ppl. that got off at the last stop....

 

2a) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) go back to serving all the terminals ?

2b) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) terminate at Lefferts blvd. AIRTrain station itself ?

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I referenced this in the chatbox last night....This isn't an proposal, but I don't want to create a separate thread for this....

I'll make this a 2 part question, to keep it on topic..... The first one is what I'm really inquiring about though.....

 

 

1) Does anyone know why they moved the JFK airport routes from terminal 4 to terminal 5?

I hope this isn't permanent....

 

I rode the B15 earlier this morning (speaking of early morning runs.... I caught the B15 at church/E 98th around 4:30... we got to JFK a little after 5am), and where they have the buses situated is not all that convenient for bus riders at all.... As I also made a reference to in the chatbox, there were more passengers (than usual) that got off at the Lefferts Blvd AIRTrain station.... Outside of myself, there were 4 ppl. that got off at the last stop....

 

2a) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) go back to serving all the terminals ?

2b) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) terminate at Lefferts blvd. AIRTrain station itself ?

 

To answer 2a I don't think this should happen. The routes would become longer and more unreliable without gaining much of a ridership boost. If, as you say few people were going via bus to the airport, why should the bus serve more of it? The AIRTrain is better for serving all terminals plus people who can afford plane tickets these days should have no problem dishing out $5 for the AIRTrain.

For 2b I would like to see trips shortened to the AIRTrain station although some service to the airport should be retained.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Bullsh**! So you're saying just because they live in the projects they don't work and they don't pay taxes? That is the most out-of-touch, stuck-up thing I have heard you say in a while. They do work, how do you think they afford the damn rent? They pay taxes just like you! Get your facts straight before you say something like that!

2) The M50 was shortened 5 blocks. I doubt they saved enough to restore all weekend service.

 

1) He's mentioned that before, so it's not like this is the first time he's saying the people living there don't pay taxes. According to him, all poor people are sitting back, living off welfare and buying "fancy sneakers and cell phones".

 

Let me fill you in on a little info about SI: The S48 (the bus he says doesn't get enough service) runs through the same number of projects that the S46 does (the one that got the later limited service)

* The S46 runs through the West Brighton Houses & Mariners' Harbor Houses

* The S48 passes a block from the Mariners' Harbor Houses and terminates right at the Arlington Terrace Apartments (technically, those are Mitchell-Lamas, but he keeps on insisting they're projects)

 

I've rode that last S96 out of St. George, and I guess since it passes through "all those projects", I must live in the projects. And if he thinks the late-night buses are full of violent people and farebeaters, everybody dipped in a MetroCard and just sat back and enjoyed the ride.

 

And furthermore, they added later limited service on the S98 as well. Yeah, before the S96 ran later than the S98, but now they both run until 10:00PM. The MTA realized that there was demand on Forest Avenue for later limited service, and so they added it.

 

He acts like the S96 always received later limited service. I think they added it on the S96 back in 2007, and then they added it on the S98 in 2010 or something like that.

 

And you know what he keeps ignoring: The S96 originally started out PM rush hours-only, whereas the S98 has always run during both the AM rush and PM rush. So much for great service, right?

 

2) No, he's actually right about that. If you think about it, they shortened it for 5 days a week (and when the buses run every 15-20 minutes) in order to provide 30-minute service 2 days a week. The MTA says it comes out to be cost-neutral.

 

2) Yeah, they get shortchanged because they can AFFORD they alternatives! Why take away service from neighborhoods where they can't afford it and make up bulls*** excuses like farebeating & violence. He just dosen't have the b***s to say he is socio-economically biased.

 

 

Me personally, I don't think you should give service based solely on people being able to afford alternatives. For instance, the Upper East Side is the wealthiest neighborhood in the city, and the buses get good usage there, so they shouldn't be cut.

 

But if they don't use the buses, then they should be cut. Now, I do agree with him that certain routes shouldn't have been cut, despite running through "affluent" neighborhoods (but even then, they're not that "affluent". Do the people in Sheepshead Bay or Bath Beach look like they're loaded with money?). I mean, the B4 got good usage in Sheepshead Bay, but they still cut it back when they shouldn't have. But since nobody used the B31 overnight to Gerritsen Beach, it shouldn't be brought back (No, VG8, I'm not going off stats because I originally supported bringing it back until other members told me that it wasn't being used)

 

As far as the whole S46 vs. S48 argument, like I said above, that is complete BS. And aside from that, he said the fact that the S48 getting more service than the S46 on the weekend is "only 3 minutes" (the S46 runs every 15 minutes. The S48 runs every 12.). Well, guess what? The S98 only saves a few minutes over the S48 (since he's only going up to Broadway), so I guess it doesn't make a difference.

 

And aside from that, he acts like those neighborhoods are poor, crime-filled slums. Does this look like a poor, crime-filled slum to you? http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=110+Maple+Parkway,+New+York,+United+States&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=281+Harbor+Road,+New+York,+United+States&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

 

Both of those are right in the heart of the "ghetto" of Mariners' Harbor. Maybe if some more White people moved in, it would suddenly be an "affluent" neighborhood.

 

1) Does anyone know why they moved the JFK airport routes from terminal 4 to terminal 5?

I hope this isn't permanent....

 

I rode the B15 earlier this morning (speaking of early morning runs.... I caught the B15 at church/E 98th around 4:30... we got to JFK a little after 5am), and where they have the buses situated is not all that convenient for bus riders at all.... As I also made a reference to in the chatbox, there were more passengers (than usual) that got off at the Lefferts Blvd AIRTrain station.... Outside of myself, there were 4 ppl. that got off at the last stop....

 

2a) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) go back to serving all the terminals ?

2b) Does anyone think they should have the JFK airport routes (B15, Q3, Q10) terminate at Lefferts blvd. AIRTrain station itself ?

 

 

1) I think I heard it mentioned on Subchat. I'm pretty sure it just has to do with construction.

 

2) Personally, I think it's fine the way it is. The bus gives you a straight shot into the middle of the airport, and if you need another terminal, the AirTrain is free.

[B35 via Church]

I think I heard it mentioned on Subchat. I'm pretty sure it just has to do with construction.

 

If that's the case, then it's temporary.... Good.

 

 

....and if you need another terminal, the AirTrain is free.

....which is why I side with JW's comment below:

 

I would like to see trips shortened to the AIRTrain station although some service to the airport should be retained.

Yep, especially now that more (B15) trips during the day are going to JFK via the Postal Facility....

 

Personally, I would:

- decrease the amt. of Spring Creek bound buses that end at the Postal Fac.

- increase the amt. of JFK bound buses that also serve the Postal Fac., to then go on to end at Lefferts blvd AIRTrain

- decrease the amt of JFK bound buses that run to terminal 4 (well 5, at the moment)....

- have the buses going to/coming from terminal 4 skip Lefferts Blvd AIRTrain

(meaning, 130th/bergen would the be the last stop inside JFK on a brooklyn bound bus)....

 

- one more thing.... on the return trip, no brooklyn bound bus leaving terminal 4 would short turn at penn..... some of the buses that would end at lefferts airtrain (for their return trip) instead would take on that task....

Edited June 2, 2012 by B35 via Church

[Threxx]

Personally, I would:

- decrease the amt. of Spring Creek bound buses that end at the Postal Fac.

- increase the amt. of JFK bound buses that also serve the Postal Fac., to then go on to end at Lefferts blvd AIRTrain

- decrease the amt of JFK bound buses that run to terminal 4 (well 5, at the moment)....

- have the buses going to/coming from terminal 4 skip Lefferts Blvd AIRTrain

(meaning, 130th/bergen would the be the last stop inside JFK on a brooklyn bound bus)....

 

- one more thing.... on the return trip, no brooklyn bound bus leaving terminal 4 would short turn at penn..... some of the buses that would end at lefferts airtrain (for their return trip) instead would take on that task....

 

 

Novel ideas, but why not just have the B15 Postal Fac buses be extended to Lefferts Blvd Airtrain, and have Terminal 4 buses skip Lefferts in both directions?

[Threxx]

1) He's mentioned that before, so it's not like this is the first time he's saying the people living there don't pay taxes. According to him, all poor people are sitting back, living off welfare and buying "fancy sneakers and cell phones".

 

Let me fill you in on a little info about SI: The S48 (the bus he says doesn't get enough service) runs through the same number of projects that the S46 does (the one that got the later limited service)

* The S46 runs through the West Brighton Houses & Mariners' Harbor Houses

* The S48 passes a block from the Mariners' Harbor Houses and terminates right at the Arlington Terrace Apartments (technically, those are Mitchell-Lamas, but he keeps on insisting they're projects)

 

I've rode that last S96 out of St. George, and I guess since it passes through "all those projects", I must live in the projects. And if he thinks the late-night buses are full of violent people and farebeaters, everybody dipped in a MetroCard and just sat back and enjoyed the ride.

 

And furthermore, they added later limited service on the S98 as well. Yeah, before the S96 ran later than the S98, but now they both run until 10:00PM. The MTA realized that there was demand on Forest Avenue for later limited service, and so they added it.

 

He acts like the S96 always received later limited service. I think they added it on the S96 back in 2007, and then they added it on the S98 in 2010 or something like that.

 

And you know what he keeps ignoring: The S96 originally started out PM rush hours-only, whereas the S98 has always run during both the AM rush and PM rush. So much for great service, right?

 

2) No, he's actually right about that. If you think about it, they shortened it for 5 days a week (and when the buses run every 15-20 minutes) in order to provide 30-minute service 2 days a week. The MTA says it comes out to be cost-neutral.

 

Me personally, I don't think you should give service based solely on people being able to afford alternatives. For instance, the Upper East Side is the wealthiest neighborhood in the city, and the buses get good usage there, so they shouldn't be cut.

 

But if they don't use the buses, then they should be cut. Now, I do agree with him that certain routes shouldn't have been cut, despite running through "affluent" neighborhoods (but even then, they're not that "affluent". Do the people in Sheepshead Bay or Bath Beach look like they're loaded with money?). I mean, the B4 got good usage in Sheepshead Bay, but they still cut it back when they shouldn't have. But since nobody used the B31 overnight to Gerritsen Beach, it shouldn't be brought back (No, VG8, I'm not going off stats because I originally supported bringing it back until other members told me that it wasn't being used)

 

As far as the whole S46 vs. S48 argument, like I said above, that is complete BS. And aside from that, he said the fact that the S48 getting more service than the S46 on the weekend is "only 3 minutes" (the S46 runs every 15 minutes. The S48 runs every 12.). Well, guess what? The S98 only saves a few minutes over the S48 (since he's only going up to Broadway), so I guess it doesn't make a difference.

 

And aside from that, he acts like those neighborhoods are poor, crime-filled slums. Does this look like a poor, crime-filled slum to you? http://maps.google.c...F-8&sa=N&tab=wl

http://maps.google.c...F-8&sa=N&tab=wl

 

Both of those are right in the heart of the "ghetto" of Mariners' Harbor. Maybe if some more White people moved in, it would suddenly be an "affluent" neighborhood.

 

 

lol at ghetto... Those neighborhoods look beter than Canarsie, which is a few steps away from a ghetto as well...

 

Anyway, I have a bone to pick with people who have those notions about the poor, they aren't lazy. He's never been poor, so he dosen't know this, of course. Anyway, I pointed out the whole alternatives thing not because I want service cut, but if I had to make the hard decision, I would cut in the more affluent neighborhoods first because they can afford alternatives.

 

I don't really care for the whole S96/98 thing, since this is a Brooklyn Bus discussion thread, but I can see your point.

 

(IMO, the S89 & 93 should be full time, the other 90's weekdays & Saturdays, and the 80's weekdays only, with the exception of the S84...)

[checkmatechamp13]

lol at ghetto... Those neighborhoods look beter than Canarsie, which is a few steps away from a ghetto as well...

 

Anyway, I have a bone to pick with people who have those notions about the poor, they aren't lazy. He's never been poor, so he dosen't know this, of course. Anyway, I pointed out the whole alternatives thing not because I want service cut, but if I had to make the hard decision, I would cut in the more affluent neighborhoods first because they can afford alternatives.

 

I don't really care for the whole S96/98 thing, since this is a Brooklyn Bus discussion thread, but I can see your point.

 

(IMO, the S89 & 93 should be full time, the other 90's weekdays & Saturdays, and the 80's weekdays only, with the exception of the S84...)

 

 

I mean, some of the areas where it passes through are ghetto (like near the West Brighton Houses). I mean, personally I've never had any serious problems there, but I can definitely see where people are coming from. But a decent portion of the areas it passes through are just fine. Even if for some crazy reason, you wanted to eliminate a route just for passing through the ghetto, you'd be affecting some "good" areas as well. It's like eliminating the B36 because it starts in Coney Island.

 

As for the limited-stop routes, I'll respond to you in the SI Proposals Thread: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/34584-staten-island-bus-service-proposalsideas-thread-2012/page__st__180

[Threxx]

I mean, some of the areas where it passes through are ghetto (like near the West Brighton Houses). I mean, personally I've never had any serious problems there, but I can definitely see where people are coming from. But a decent portion of the areas it passes through are just fine. Even if for some crazy reason, you wanted to eliminate a route just for passing through the ghetto, you'd be affecting some "good" areas as well. It's like eliminating the B36 because it starts in Coney Island.

 

As for the limited-stop routes, I'll respond to you in the SI Proposals Thread: http://www.nyctransi...2/page__st__180

 

 

When is the reply coming?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) What the hell are you talking about? The S74 isn't known for violence.

 

LOL... Newsflash... Many of the SI local buses especially ones that go pass projects are known for riff raff... FYI Your little school excursions and after school outings aren't when a lot of the crap occurs... I'm sure cartmann's accounts of what has happened to him on local SI buses on the North Shore were just figments on his imagination.

 

2) Nice try. I was only talking about your specific census tract, which does not include the projects. The projects are listed seperately.

 

Median income in the West Brighton Houses: $14,815

Median income in your part of West Brighton (Broadway-Clove Road-Cary Avenue): $50,900

 

Median income in Central Mariners' Harbor (Harbor Road-Forest Avenue-Simonson Avenue-train tracks): $56,401

 

If anybody's wondering how it relates to this, he feels the "affluent neighborhoods" always get short-changed by the MTA

.

 

Uh, excuse me, but I was by Forest Avenue NOT Cary Avenue... Hell, anything north of Delafield is where the salaries take a sharp dive anyway... It's evident by how crappy the houses look until you reach Randall Manor. No wonder the median income is so low... Now why don't you include the median income for West Brighton at or near Forest Avenue (no further north than Delafield Avenue) and ABOVE Forest Avenue... I'm sure there is a profound difference, as the household I was in had $90k/yr coming in just from one person alone, not including my salary. As far as I'm concerned Cary Avenue is a DUMP, along with Broadway below Forest Avenue. Maybe Port Richmond can take those areas on...

 

3) It's still more service than the S46 gets.

 

And what is the S46? The be all end all route suddenly??

 

5) Did I ever say it should be eliminated completely? No, I said it should be restructured to be more efficient, and then if that doesn't work, then eliminate weekend service.

Usually restructure done by the leads to elimination... Just look at the X16... They "restructured" that route too supposedly to make it more "efficient".

 

Part 2 in the post below...

Edited June 2, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8