NewFlyer 230 Posted July 15, 2012 Share #51 Posted July 15, 2012 I noticed new buses cause fare beating a lot because when the back doors open they stay open for a while and this gives ppl a chance to hop in. I say it happen on a New Flyer on he Q25 at Jamaica Ave about 10 ppl skipped paying and I saw it on a Orion 7 3G on the Q27 and Q88 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 15, 2012 Share #52 Posted July 15, 2012 moe cops on buses will stop that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #53 Posted July 16, 2012 So what is the consensus overall from B/Os and other observers who have commented on farebeating... Do you think it is getting worse or better with the undercover cops patrolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdog14 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #54 Posted July 16, 2012 I noticed new buses cause fare beating a lot because when the back doors open they stay open for a while and this gives ppl a chance to hop in. I say it happen on a New Flyer on he Q25 at Jamaica Ave about 10 ppl skipped paying and I saw it on a Orion 7 3G on the Q27 and Q88 as well. It has nothing to do with the bus being new. Sometimes the bus driver doesn't close the door right away. It happens on a RTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #55 Posted July 16, 2012 It has nothing to do with the bus being new. Sometimes the bus driver doesn't close the door right away. It happens on a RTS. Exactly. I doubt a farebeater could really care what type of bus it is so long as they can get on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #56 Posted July 16, 2012 No, I see what he's saying. The door itself stays open longer, so the farebeater has an easier chance of sneaking in the back door. The farebeater doesn't care what type of bus it is except that certain types are easier to farebeat on than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtNovaBusRTS9369 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #57 Posted July 16, 2012 The hardest bus a farebeater could have a hard time is most likely the NovaBus LFS. Usually the doors close in a matter of seconds as I've this a good amoumt of times. I was on an LFS yesterday on the Q46 & while people were trying to get off the doors nearly closed in on them. Imagine if a fare evader tried trying on from tne rear, especially if the doors aren't held open after a certain period of a time. And I have yet to see a fare beater get though an LFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted July 16, 2012 Share #58 Posted July 16, 2012 The hardest bus a farebeater could have a hard time is most likely the NovaBus LFS. Usually the doors close in a matter of seconds as I've this a good amoumt of times. I was on an LFS yesterday on the Q46 & while people were trying to get off the doors nearly closed in on them. Imagine if a fare evader tried trying on from tne rear, especially if the doors aren't held open after a certain period of a time. And I have yet to see a fare beater get though an LFS. Then MTA just needs to order more of them to replace other buses especially on lines with high farebeating needs those the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CT1660- Posted July 17, 2012 Share #59 Posted July 17, 2012 They need to install fareboxes on the rear door as well. Of course camera enforced so that the B/O can monitor the rear door and the front door to ensure passengers pay the fares. As long as the MTA finds it feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noflexdont Posted July 17, 2012 Share #60 Posted July 17, 2012 They need to install fareboxes on the rear door as well. Of course camera enforced so that the B/O can monitor the rear door and the front door to ensure passengers pay the fares. As long as the MTA finds it feasible. This made my day. If people just walk by me why don’t you think that they would do the same at the back door. Bus drivers are not cops, we are there to get you to and from you destination safely. Now as far as the back doors go I’ll let you guys know what happening. Our handle that operators the door has five positions. Let look at it as if it was a clock. When the door handle is at 3 o'clock the doors are closed. Move it to 1 o'clock and the front door ONLY opens. if you move it to 12 o'clock both doors are open (rear door opens when the brake is depressed, this engages the interlock safety and the green lights around the rear door illuminate) The 6 o'clock is the same as the 12 o'clock and you guested it the 5 o'clock would be the rear door only (would have to apply brake to engage door and interlock. Must operators will push the handle forward from 3 o'clock to 12 o'clock. Obviously this opens both doors. What I do so the doors shut quickly and make it harder for fare beaters to enter from the rear is I switch the door handle from 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock. This releases the air pressure holding the door open, and will begin to shut the rear door. There is a problem with this. The MTA wants the interlock engaged for added safety. If the green light are not lit up the bus could roll while you have the front door open and cause injury to people boarding or exiting. To counter this from happening I switch back the door handle from 1 o'clock (front door only) to 12 o'clock and press the brake again to engage interlock and illuminate the green lights over the rear door. so the rear doors are now closed but the interlock is still engaged. There is another way to dump the air from the rear doors when they are open. You hit this button and it bypasses the interlock and dumps the air. If you just tap the button it only releases the air closing the rear door. IF you ever had a bus door smack you in the face it because the operator mostly hit that button. I hope that i have no confused you guys. And to be honest I don’t think most operators do what I had just described hence why the rear doors stay open forever. Maybe I will post a video on YouTube, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 17, 2012 Share #61 Posted July 17, 2012 They need to install fareboxes on the rear door as well. Of course camera enforced so that the B/O can monitor the rear door and the front door to ensure passengers pay the fares. As long as the MTA finds it feasible. That was funny how are they going to fit a fare box at the rear doors without taking up half that space. Bus drivers have two eyes and I think they can monitor and look at both the front and back doors. The only way that's possible is if another person is watching it and that will be a waste of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 17, 2012 Share #62 Posted July 17, 2012 Actually a lot of transit systems in Europe have multiple fareboxes on their buses. In fact no coins are accepted. You buy your ticket before you board and simply walk to any of the ticket stampers on the bus and violà... The B/Os just have to drive and are there to answer any questions that you may have. It worked great when I lived in Europe. Very efficient system. Folks just get on through any door they want, stamp their ticket and have a seat. Of course the fare inspectors are on all buses and not just some like here so that's different also. I wonder how it is in Canada since many of the buses used in Canada are now used here (i.e. LFS bus). The times that I've been there (Montréal on several occasions) I never used public transit. Either was in a car or was Downtown so we could just walk around to wherever we were going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted July 18, 2012 Share #63 Posted July 18, 2012 That was funny how are they going to fit a fare box at the rear doors without taking up half that space. Bus drivers have two eyes and I think they can monitor and look at both the front and back doors. The only way that's possible is if another person is watching it and that will be a waste of time and money. Who said it'd have to be the huge fare boxes like the ones at the front? I'm sure they could (in theory) install a stand as slim as the MC readers in the subways and a person would need a MC to swipe. But yeah, I don't think that would work as it's more a hassle than it's worth. However, to speed up the loading, they should have riders pre pay at the stops (like with the SBS especially at the major stops and have inspectors there to check) board the back of the bus or force ppl to exit from the back if the bus isn't too crowded. I've always said that at the major stops like the Nostrand junction, they should have separate off loading and loading spots to keep fare beaters out. Let ppl exit from the front and back, pull up to the actual stop and then open only the front door. This way you cut out the potential fare beaters entering the back door and cut down on the dwell time of having to wait for everyone to get off before getting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 18, 2012 Share #64 Posted July 18, 2012 Who said it'd have to be the huge fare boxes like the ones at the front? I'm sure they could (in theory) install a stand as slim as the MC readers in the subways and a person would need a MC to swipe. But yeah, I don't think that would work as it's more a hassle than it's worth. However, to speed up the loading, they should have riders pre pay at the stops (like with the SBS especially at the major stops and have inspectors there to check) board the back of the bus or force ppl to exit from the back if the bus isn't too crowded. I've always said that at the major stops like the Nostrand junction, they should have separate off loading and loading spots to keep fare beaters out. Let ppl exit from the front and back, pull up to the actual stop and then open only the front door. This way you cut out the potential fare beaters entering the back door and cut down on the dwell time of having to wait for everyone to get off before getting on. Ok so it like it has a Drop off Only section and then it has a pick up only section I see, but maintaining a farebox at the rear is not the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted July 18, 2012 Share #65 Posted July 18, 2012 Yes. But the point about the rear door revenue collection could be done with something less bulky compared to the standard farebox. However, since there's the problem with cards (read error or short some change), it'd be more of a hassle. So in the end, the machines at the bus stops are probably the best solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 18, 2012 Share #66 Posted July 18, 2012 Yeah let's just hope ppl dont try to pick up a old tickets off the floor and have enough money to pay for the fare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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