mark1447 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #1 Posted June 21, 2012 The MTA loses about $50 million in revenue each year to bus farebeaters — more than triple what it previously estimated, the Daily News has learned. The staggering figure is partly the result of a new way the authority calculates fare-dodging, but also indicates that the longstanding problem has worsened because of lax enforcement, sources said. The authority previously had estimated that bus farebeaters were stealing $14 million worth of free rides annually. Gauging bus freeloading levels has been an inexact science. Drivers are supposed to keep tallies by pushing a button every time someone boards without paying. The authority also has used video to estimate the frequency of bus farebeating. “This is situation we have to get under control,” MTA board member Allen Cappelli said. “Not only is it a significant amount of revenue, but you’re allowing people to behave in a lawless manner.” Cappelli and Councilwoman Debi Rose called on the NYPD to increase enforcement citywide. Police in Staten Island in recent weeks have placed undercover officers on buses in a pilot program launched in conjunction with the Staten Island district attorney’s office, Cappelli and Rose said. The MTA, meanwhile, said it will draft a comprehensive and citywide plan to deter fare evasion on buses. Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2012/06/bus-farebeaters-cost-mta-50-million-annually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 21, 2012 Share #2 Posted June 21, 2012 If you ask me, there should be a MTAPD unit dedicated to bus patrol, so everything would be under control. I've always been an advocate of having MTAPD in charge of all agencies, but here on the buses the NYPD hasn't been doing much and a dedicated police force for the would definitely deter farebeating since the cops patrolling the buses wouldn't have the rest of the city to patrol and could spend all their time focused on the transit system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted June 21, 2012 If you ask me, there should be a MTAPD unit dedicated to bus patrol, so everything would be under control. I've always been an advocate of having MTAPD in charge of all agencies, but here on the buses the NYPD hasn't been doing much and a dedicated police force for the would definitely deter farebeating since the cops patrolling the buses wouldn't have the rest of the city to patrol and could spend all their time focused on the transit system. I think the MTA security should be doing this. NYPD already does enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted June 21, 2012 Share #4 Posted June 21, 2012 I think the MTA security should be doing this. NYPD already does enough. People won't be intimidated by security guards, they aren't law enforcement and they can't do much besides issuing tickets. Do you see people not farebeating on the +selectbusservice because the big scary eagle team guys might catch them? No. If there were more armed police officers with arrest powers, the farebeating numbers would probably go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted June 21, 2012 Share #5 Posted June 21, 2012 People won't be intimidated by security guards, they aren't law enforcement and they can't do much besides issuing tickets. Do you see people not farebeating on the +selectbusservice because the big scary eagle team guys might catch them? No. If there were more armed police officers with arrest powers, the farebeating numbers would probably go down. I ride +SBS and I notice less farebeating. The inspectors checked the last bus I was on at Pelham Bay and everyone on had their receipts. I was shocked when the bus left and the inspectors weren't writing up anybody. It was just them at the stop when the bus left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3 Via Av U Posted June 21, 2012 Share #6 Posted June 21, 2012 Why is this in the subway forum? Lance! Can you get this over to the bus forum?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #7 Posted June 21, 2012 Hmm... So from $14 million to $50 million... Almost triple what was originally estimated and I wouldn't be surprised if it was even higher than that because some B/Os don't even bother to push the button when farebeaters get on. Too early to say yet, but I am very EAGER to see the results of this pilot program on Staten Island and how #1 has farebeating increased or decreased & #2 how has crime increased or decreased on Staten Island local buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted June 21, 2012 Share #8 Posted June 21, 2012 Hopefully farebeating will slowly reduce in SI now that they are putting undercover cops on SI buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #9 Posted June 21, 2012 What's the point of these threads? It's always going to be the same exact comments whether it's $14 million, $50 million, $328 million, $27 million, or some other number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #10 Posted June 21, 2012 What's the point of these threads? It's always going to be the same exact comments whether it's $14 million, $50 million, $328 million, $27 million, or some other number. The bigger question is why you feel the need to trivialize anything dealing with farebeating?? The riding public deserves to know what the is doing with their hard earned money, which in this case is allowing deadbeats to ride on the backs of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #11 Posted June 21, 2012 The bigger question is why you feel the need to trivialize anything dealing with farebeating?? The riding public deserves to know what the is doing with their hard earned money, which in this case is allowing deadbeats to ride on the backs of others. That's not trivializing anything. That's asking what's the point of these threads. I swear, we should just make a "farebeating thread" and just put all these different articles in it, instead of making a new thread every time they release an article. Like I said, the comments are going to be the same whether it's $14 million or $328 million, so what's the point? Everybody knows there are farebeaters, and nobody can seem to come up with an actual number as to how much money it is. There's a huge difference between $14 million and $328 million, so again, what's the point? I'd be saying this even if I were the largest supporter of cracking down on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #12 Posted June 21, 2012 That's not trivializing anything. That's asking what's the point of these threads. I swear, we should just make a "farebeating thread" and just put all these different articles in it, instead of making a new thread every time they release an article. Like I said, the comments are going to be the same whether it's $14 million or $328 million, so what's the point? Everybody knows there are farebeaters, and nobody can seem to come up with an actual number as to how much money it is. There's a huge difference between $14 million and $328 million, so again, what's the point? I'd be saying this even if I were the largest supporter of cracking down on it. But the point is you aren't a supporter of cracking down on it, so that's a moot point. Just trying to derail the farebeating threads. What a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted June 21, 2012 Share #13 Posted June 21, 2012 Topic moved. Now lets behave, shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted June 21, 2012 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2012 People won't be intimidated by security guards, they aren't law enforcement and they can't do much besides issuing tickets. Do you see people not farebeating on the +selectbusservice because the big scary eagle team guys might catch them? No. If there were more armed police officers with arrest powers, the farebeating numbers would probably go down. But those guards will still give out fines meaning more money in fines. However armed police is for intimidation purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted June 21, 2012 People won't be intimidated by security guards, they aren't law enforcement and they can't do much besides issuing tickets. Do you see people not farebeating on the +selectbusservice because the big scary eagle team guys might catch them? No. If there were more armed police officers with arrest powers, the farebeating numbers would probably go down. The ones on the SBS 15 I have seen pulling customers out who didn't pay. I also heard they have ran down a few people who didn't pay for the fare on the Bx12 AND arrested them. So that can be an alternative to NYPD. But its all up to the MTA. Why is this in the subway forum? Lance! Can you get this over to the bus forum?!? You don't seem to be into buses it looks .. Slow down, it was an error... Besides, even this can apply to the Subway as well.... And Thanks CS for moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #16 Posted June 21, 2012 But the point is you aren't a supporter of cracking down on it, so that's a moot point. Just trying to derail the farebeating threads. What a surprise. Uh, yeah I am if you go after the loud, obnoxious ones and the ones with an attitude. I've mentioned that many times before, but apparently it goes in one ear and out the other. Oh, sorry I don't want to go after people who honestly don't have a MetroCard and are just going to leave everybody alone, or the ones who really can't afford it and (again), just leave everybody alone. Geez, I'm such a horrible person. And how the hell is this derailing the thread, huh? I'm saying there's no point in 50 different threads all saying the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #17 Posted June 21, 2012 Uh, yeah I am if you go after the loud, obnoxious ones and the ones with an attitude. I've mentioned that many times before, but apparently it goes in one ear and out the other. Oh, sorry I don't want to go after people who honestly don't have a MetroCard and are just going to leave everybody alone, or the ones who really can't afford it and (again), just leave everybody alone. Geez, I'm such a horrible person. And how the hell is this derailing the thread, huh? I'm saying there's no point in 50 different threads all saying the same thing. Like I said there is an alternative. No one is being forced to not pay and ride. You keep talking about how they can't afford to ride. So what?? Apparently walking, using a bike, asking a friend for a ride... Those aren't all legal options right?? And second, so if 50 people all get on the bus and don't pay and don't bother anyone they should all ride for free right?? What a ridiculous statement. That's like saying if someone robs a house and doesn't hurt anyone that they shouldn't go to jail, even though they are stealing. Theft of services is theft of services. What about that isn't clear to you?? Like I said... trivializing farebeating is exactly what you do... Constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted June 21, 2012 Share #18 Posted June 21, 2012 Just to divert away from this possible flame war.... Like I said in the previous thread or two, I have started to see undercover cops on the S.I routes as of late. I just hope that there are more on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #19 Posted June 21, 2012 Like I said there is an alternative. No one is being forced to not pay and ride. You keep talking about how they can't afford to ride. So what?? Apparently walking, using a bike, asking a friend for a ride... Those aren't all legal options right?? And second, so if 50 people all get on the bus and don't pay and don't bother anyone they should all ride for free right?? What a ridiculous statement. That's like saying if someone robs a house and doesn't hurt anyone that they shouldn't go to jail, even though they are stealing. Theft of services is theft of services. What about that isn't clear to you?? Like I said... trivializing farebeating is exactly what you do... Constantly. Yeah, I'd like to see somebody walk a few miles in 90 degree heat. Hell, I just walked 2 miles round-trip and I'm drenched in sweat. And what makes you think they have friends who they can ask for a ride? And if all 50 people happen to be unable to afford the fare, then yeah, they should ride for free. And that's not the same as robbing somebody's house. If I steal from somebody's house, that means that they no longer have something. What are they losing by their presence on the bus? If they walked a few miles in the heat, how exactly would that help the MTA? Just to divert away from this possible flame war.... No worries. Like I said, it's going to be the same stuff as in any other farebeating threads, so I doubt I'll be involved much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B17EastNewYorkDepot Posted June 21, 2012 Share #20 Posted June 21, 2012 Not just Farebeating but when they dumbfounded Fareboxes dont work MTA loses alot of money especially if the driver doesnt get a new bus .. got one during rush hour it was crazy to jus see people hop on the bus back & front like it was sbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #21 Posted June 21, 2012 Yeah, I'd like to see somebody walk a few miles in 90 degree heat. Hell, I just walked 2 miles round-trip and I'm drenched in sweat. And what makes you think they have friends who they can ask for a ride? And if all 50 people happen to be unable to afford the fare, then yeah, they should ride for free. And that's not the same as robbing somebody's house. If I steal from somebody's house, that means that they no longer have something. What are they losing by their presence on the bus? If they walked a few miles in the heat, how exactly would that help the MTA? It's called theft of services. Apparently you haven't heard of it before or want to pretend like you don't know what it is. Either way the paying public is the one losing. In sum, if someone can't afford the fare, it is NOT our responsibility to give them a free ride, especially since they have alternatives. It's funny how these folks should ride for free, but yet we can't even provide seniors with necessary transportation. Many of them have been forced to stay in doors because their bus service has been cut and they have no other alternatives. The people stealing services are often times mobile individuals who can walk, not to mention criminals, as Dan Donovan showed, so we should give thugs free rides while seniors suffer with no transportation right? Oh and before you mention that line about how yeah as long as they aren't bothering anyone, a criminal doesn't need to bother anyone to commit a crime. I just thought I'd put that out there since you keep bringing up this line about how if folks that aren't being "disruptive" on the bus should be allowed to ride for free if they can't afford the fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #22 Posted June 21, 2012 It's called theft of services. Apparently you haven't heard of it before or want to pretend like you don't know what it is. Either way the paying public is the one losing. In sum, if someone can't afford the fare, it is NOT our responsibility to give them a free ride, especially since they have alternatives. It's funny how these folks should ride for free, but yet we can't even provide seniors with necessary transportation. Many of them have been forced to stay in doors because their bus service has been cut and they have no other alternatives. The people stealing services are often times mobile individuals who can walk, not to mention criminals, as Dan Donovan showed, so we should give thugs free rides while seniors suffer with no transportation right? Oh and before you mention that line about how yeah as long as they aren't bothering anyone, a criminal doesn't need to bother anyone to commit a crime. I just thought I'd put that out there since you keep bringing up this line about how if folks that aren't being "disruptive" on the bus should be allowed to ride for free if they can't afford the fare. I never said the seniors shouldn't be provided with transportation. And like I said, even if the people walked, what money is the MTA getting out of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #23 Posted June 21, 2012 I never said the seniors shouldn't be provided with transportation. And like I said, even if the people walked, what money is the MTA getting out of that? For starters more people PAYING the bloody fare instead of stealing the service. How about that... People using a service and paying for it. You know why don't we start allowing folks to just say that they can't pay for other services too and get them for free. I mean hey that's what you would like right? Whether you want to admit it or not, there are people that are riding for free that WOULD be paying if they knew they would be busted. You keep talking about how if folks had to pay for the service that currently aren't they would simply walk or wouldn't ride, which is a lie. That black lady that was interviewed on the S44 simply said that she didn't feel like paying, NOT that she couldn't pay and even a few folks on the form have said that they beat the system simply because they can, but they're in no position to just stop using the system. They would have to pay. I mean if these folks had so many options then they would be using them. The only scenario that this could apply to is folks traveling short distances, but don't sit here and pretend like all of the folks farebeating would suddenly stop using the system when many of them have no other options. Walking is an option but a difficult one, but still an option hence why I say that farebeaters can walk because like I said, it is not our responsibility to provide them with a free ride because they don't have the fare. Imagine if everyone did this? The system wouldn't function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 21, 2012 Share #24 Posted June 21, 2012 For starters more people PAYING the bloody fare instead of stealing the service. How about that... People using a service and paying for it. You know why don't we start allowing folks to just say that they can't pay for other services too and get them for free. I mean hey that's what you would like right? Whether you want to admit it or not, there are people that are riding for free that WOULD be paying if they knew they would be busted. You keep talking about how if folks had to pay for the service that currently aren't they would simply walk or wouldn't ride, which is a lie. That black lady that was interviewed on the S44 simply said that she didn't feel like paying, NOT that she couldn't pay and even a few folks on the form have said that they beat the system simply because they can, but they're in no position to just stop using the system. They would have to pay. I mean if these folks had so many options then they would be using them. The only scenario that this could apply to is folks traveling short distances, but don't sit here and pretend like all of the folks farebeating would suddenly stop using the system when many of them have no other options. Walking is an option but a difficult one, but still an option hence why I say that farebeaters can walk because like I said, it is not our responsibility to provide them with a free ride because they don't have the fare. Imagine if everyone did this? The system wouldn't function. I said specifically "even if the people walked, what money is the MTA getting out of that?" You still haven't answered my question. As for people like the woman on the S44, can she afford it? I guess she can if she said "I don't feel like paying" instead of "I can't afford it", and she should be paying. But let's not act like all farebeaters are like that. And I'm not going to "imagine what would happen" because it's not going to happen, so why bother entertaining the idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noflexdont Posted June 21, 2012 Share #25 Posted June 21, 2012 They way I feel is everyone should pay for service. If you don't pay the fare then face consequences. As an operator you can tell who has it and who don't. When pulling into a stop I can tell you 90% of the time who going to ask me for a ride. I know as an responseable adult I alway had my fare, even as a teen. If I was broke, I walked. I remember once walking from woodhaven to Howard beach and another time from queens center mall to ozone park. People know there no enforcement of the fare, so why bother paying. The public should be crying foul at the MTA and NYPD for lack of enforcement. People need to understand there not only stealing from the MTA but also from you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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