125th St Bus Corridor Improvement Workshop

[Mysterious2train]

Maybe the MTA can move the M35/X80 stop to where the M101/M103 stop right across the street.

 

 

There's no real gain out of this. The M35 stop already gets awfully crowded with people waiting for the bus at times, and a crowd like that shouldn't be mixed in with people waiting at another bus stop. The M101/M103 stop gets a decent crowd too, and it's not right across the street, it's down at the corner at 124th St.

 

And if the first stop to Randall's Island is moved, where would buses from the Island drop people off and layover? More specifically, the ones that drop people off right at the stop and lay-over there.

 

My trip to the workshop:

There were booklets to browse through, listing the stock solutions such as bus lanes, off-board fare collection and cutting stops with nothing concrete stated.

 

As it turns out, on 125th St the lines with the most boardings are the M60, Bx15, M101 and M100, in that order. More specifically, 9, 682, 8,838, 7, 198 and 6, 912 average daily boardings respectively. (This is only for the stops on 125th St, and isn't indicative of the routes' ridership as a whole, besides the M60. )

 

There was a pretty interesting ensemble at my table, the leader was Evan Bialostzky from NYCT whose exact position escapes me, a Union representative from 126th St Depot, and a spokeswoman from a group called Disabled in Action, among others.

 

The spokeswoman really ranked on B/Os, she was apparently disabled and drivers being unaccommodating with them telling her she wasn't disabled (she didn't elaborate on her disability, and admittedly you couldn't really tell she was disabled just by looking at her.)

 

The union rep was adamant that a curbside bus lane would help improve the bus situation on 125th. Adamant that a bus lane would really make things better, and that it had to be a curbside lane because an offset lane taking away a lane of traffic would be a bad idea. He did propose that taxis around Park Av should have a parking lane near but not on 125th, and that a parking lot should ideally be built somewhere near the shopping strip.

 

I did ask about SBS on the M60 since it was in the Capital Program but Mr. Bialostzky said he "didn't know what the capital program" was and that SBS on that line was "only under consideration." Is this supposed to be classified info or something?

 

Awfully weird putting something "under consideration" in the overly official Capital program, but I digress. The union rep did mention an SBS test on the M60 and that it apparently went well, but nothing really detailed.

 

A few people did talk about the M101, with potentially cutting stops and how it could affect the M100 but that's just the usual idea-slugging. I did write down a few suggestions on my comment sheet but nothing that would probably be considered practical.

 

 

Overall, I think the workshop went pretty well.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

There's no real gain out of this. The M35 stop already gets awfully crowded with people waiting for the bus at times, and a crowd like that shouldn't be mixed in with people waiting at another bus stop. The M101/M103 stop gets a decent crowd too, and it's not right across the street, it's down at the corner at 124th St.

 

And if the first stop to Randall's Island is moved, where would buses from the Island drop people off and layover? More specifically, the ones that drop people off right at the stop and lay-over there.

 

My trip to the workshop:

There were booklets to browse through, listing the stock solutions such as bus lanes, off-board fare collection and cutting stops with nothing concrete stated.

 

As it turns out, on 125th St the lines with the most boardings are the M60, Bx15, M101 and M100, in that order. More specifically, 9, 682, 8,838, 7, 198 and 6, 912 average daily boardings respectively. (This is only for the stops on 125th St, and isn't indicative of the routes' ridership as a whole, besides the M60. )

 

There was a pretty interesting ensemble at my table, the leader was Evan Bialostzky from NYCT whose exact position escapes me, a Union representative from 126th St Depot, and a spokeswoman from a group called Disabled in Action, among others.

 

The spokeswoman really ranked on B/Os, she was apparently disabled and drivers being unaccommodating with them telling her she wasn't disabled (she didn't elaborate on her disability, and admittedly you couldn't really tell she was disabled just by looking at her.)

 

The union rep was adamant that a curbside bus lane would help improve the bus situation on 125th. Adamant that a bus lane would really make things better, and that it had to be a curbside lane because an offset lane taking away a lane of traffic would be a bad idea. He did propose that taxis around Park Av should have a parking lane near but not on 125th, and that a parking lot should ideally be built somewhere near the shopping strip.

 

I did ask about SBS on the M60 since it was in the Capital Program but Mr. Bialostzky said he "didn't know what the capital program" was and that SBS on that line was "only under consideration." Is this supposed to be classified info or something?

 

Awfully weird putting something "under consideration" in the overly official Capital program, but I digress. The union rep did mention an SBS test on the M60 and that it apparently went well, but nothing really detailed.

 

A few people did talk about the M101, with potentially cutting stops and how it could affect the M100 but that's just the usual idea-slugging. I did write down a few suggestions on my comment sheet but nothing that would probably be considered practical.

 

 

Overall, I think the workshop went pretty well.

 

That would be converted to a drop-off only and layover there. Then pick-up across the street at 124 street

[Mysterious2train]

Ok, but again what's the benefit of this? I know that the intersection is always congested but being right across from all the stores and 15 feet from the entrance to the subway the M35 stop is placed about as conveniently as it can get. There's no point in forcing the crowd there to wait with the M101/M103 crowd. And if the 35, 101 and 103 all show up at the same time it'll just be chaos. I mean, The 101/103 stop is down at the corner at 124th St to leave space open further up the block, the 35 shouldn't eat it up or anything. There's also a fire hydrant up there.

[Mysterious2train]

EDIT: Corrected link

 

There's a follow-up workshop next Monday, December 6th. Same place and time as the one before.

 

I was wrong in that nobody actually openly talked about plans for SBS on the M60 at the last workshop (except for a vague line by the Union Rep from 126th St Depot) but now that it's publicly acknowledged I guess it'll be mentioned.

 

Well guys, I better talk about ideas for M101 and Bx55 SBS, since I didn't mention it last time.

I wonder how quickly I would be shooed away if I actually mentioned something to that effect...

[AndrewJC]

Follow-up workshop next Monday, December 6th. Same place and time as the one before.

 

 

That's a link to your email system.

[qjtransitmaster]

interesting

[Mysterious2train]

That's a link to your email system.

 

 

My bad. They sent it to everyone on the mailing list, but not in link form. I fixed it. This link should work.

[FamousNYLover]

EDIT: Corrected link

 

There's a follow-up workshop next Monday, December 6th. Same place and time as the one before.

 

I was wrong in that nobody actually openly talked about plans for SBS on the M60 at the last workshop (except for a vague line by the Union Rep from 126th St Depot) but now that it's publicly acknowledged I guess it'll be mentioned.

 

Well guys, I better talk about ideas for M101 and Bx55 SBS, since I didn't mention it last time.

I wonder how quickly I would be shooed away if I actually mentioned something to that effect...

 

M60 SBS was also discussed at LGA Airport Anarlies Airport Open House well.

There was nasty school security there almost didn't let me go to OPENHOUSE and he told me LIED that OpenHouse was Over, which was not when familar NYCDOT told me.

[Bill from Maspeth]

Bus lanes please.... And a way to cut the TRAFFIC east of St. Nich... But this seems interesting. Simlar to the SBS41..

 

Btw dont think its focused just on BRT. Likely the whole corridor and its routes..

 

 

I agree with the bus lanes. But every solution poses another inconvience: how to retail stores get deliveries?

[Mysterious2train]

Likely is that the bus lanes will be Rush Hours only so that stores can get off-peak deliveries. If nothing else, that's the compromise that works out best for retailers in terms of deliveries.

 

I don't think the MTA/DOT would go for offset bus lanes but in the slim chance they do then it wouldn't be much of a problem.

[Mysterious2train]

Bump reminder:

 

It's this Monday for the interested

 

http://pdfuploader.c...op_2_Notice.pdf

[Mysterious2train]

Went to the workshop today, it was smaller, but much more interesting than the last one.

 

What the MTA/DOT wants:

- SBS on the M60 [no surprise there]

- Offset bus lanes [no curbside lanes!!] and all the other SBS features.

 

They didn't mention bus bulbs but I assume they would come right with the offset bus lanes.

 

Everything's still in the design phase, and nothing's been confirmed yet, but that's pretty much it.

 

Body of text spoilered for your health:

 

My group was pretty interesting, a couple of feisty old ladies, a few ordinary guys, and some other people.

 

The officials there confirmed their intent to put SBS on the M60. Also, turns out they're eyeing offset bus lanes instead of curb lanes, which admittedly I thought was pretty surprising. At least now, retail store concerns hopefully will be less of an issue.

 

There were all the typical complaints and ideas, double-parking, pedestrian trouble, put one or all of the route on 124th and 126th Sts instead, etc.

 

Suffice to say that the MTA/DOT's idea to put SBS on the M60 and only the M60 did not go down well. There were a lot of legitimate arguments for all sides thrown around. I also had a lot of fun disputing the fabled 'M60 is the busiest route on 125th St' statistic.

 

(For the stops on 125th St, the routes with the most weekday boardings are the M60, Bx15, M101, and M100, in that order. But of course, those statistics don't tell the whole story.)

 

One guy proposed his self-described radical idea of making one catch-all M125 crosstown route and truncating the other routes, except for the M60, since he believed that the L-shaped trips done now with the routes is rather inefficient [For example, when I explained my idea for having the Bx55 replace for the Bx15 on 125 St, and how the Bx55 is Limited in the Bronx to the Bx15's local, he questioned why people would take the Bx15 local (or any bus, for that matter) to Manhattan when they could just transfer to the or at 149 St. Although, debating is a really great thing to do.]

 

Same dude also espoused what I and few other people said, that the M60 is a weird mix of an airport route and a regular local route. I personally, I don't really like the idea of one frequent route trying to do a job that two less frequent routes could possibly do better (for example, providing fast service to the airport vs. connecting Columbia, 125th St, and Astoria Blvd) although I understand that examples of the former tend to be cheaper and whatnot.

 

I managed to get a word in edge-wise about my ideas. (same link that's been in my signature for a while now)

 

TL;DR version:

- Bx55 gets SBS and replaces Bx15 on 125 St, and takes a faster route going South

- M101 gets SBS and runs to City Hall, a new route provides local service on Amsterdam

- M100 stays local

 

One interesting thing was that a few others actually had more-or-less similar ideas for the routes, which made me feel like less of a crazy foamer nut for a little while

 

If this grand idea for an SBS corridor is excessive and belongs in foamerville, fine, but I think Limited stops for the M101 on the northern half of its route, and having some Limited service from 3 Av to the Bronx would be good ideas, one of the few things we could all reasonably agree on back at the workshop

 

Like I said before, the officials made it clear we're still in the design phase and that nothing's been confirmed yet, but I'm under no illusion that we effected any change in plans. At least the bus riders got to voice their opinions to the people in charge.

 

 

The next workshop should be in the spring.

[Mysterious2train]

http://pdfuploader.com/uppdfs/239/125th_St_public_walkthrough_flyer_for_Jan_17_2013_English-Spanish.pdf

 

Something interesting for community members, the MTA/DOT will be holding an afternoon walk down 125th St this Thursday to learn more in-depth about conditions on 125th St.

[FamousNYLover]

You have to make RSVP for afternoon walk. I'll be attending.

Transportation Alternative says 125th St/Amsterdam Av donkin donuts is meeting point.

 

Select Bus Service 125th Street public walk-through

Join MTA and NYC DOT to identify ways to improve bus service at a public walking meeting on 125th Street. Dress warmly and be prepared to walk at least one mile.

RSVP: Josh Orzeck at 212-839-6218 or jorzeck@dot.nyc.gov by Tuesday, Jan 15 if you would like to attend.

Start: January 17, 2013 - 12:30pm

End: January 17, 2013 - 1:30pm

Location:

Meet the corner of 125th Street and Amsterdam Avenue (in front of Dunkin Donuts)

[Mysterious2train]

Would anybody mind updating the thread title? Since it's not really about the one workshop anymore.

 

http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2013-03-sbs-125-st-cb11-slides.pdf

 

I already talked about this in the M60 thread, but the list of proposed SBS stops is in that link.

 

The offset bus lanes will be from most of the stretch from A.C. Powell Blvd [7 Av] to 3 Av. It looks like there's gonna be a bus bulb at Lexington Av, but not the Madison Av or 6 Av stops. Old news, but some 12 or so M15+ stops above Houston St are supposed to have bus bulbs but only one stop, the one at 1 Av and 2 St, has had the sidewalk extension built. I guess only having one work reduces work needed to be done. 

 

Also, the M100 is going to have a revised turn-around, it's first and last stop will be moved to 1 Av

 

 

I guess that's good for ending the complaints of people coming off the M15 having to walk to 2 Av for a transfer, but I guess people going to Randalls' Island or Queens still have to walk.

 

Still perturbed about how 2 or 3 local routes are on 125 St are going to be so-called "Limited" routes, but that's just the bias talking.

 

The event for this spring will be next month, apparently an open house and not a workshop.

[WorkerX]

The event for this spring will be next month, apparently an open house and not a workshop.

 

 

So the event on the 18th is closed to the public?

 

Also shocked that the Bx15 gets the second most usage on 125th.  Surely thought the M101 would take that,

[FamousNYLover]

There's another workshop on this monday the 18th.

https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mu8rqk2bv0v2lk3hh36r8s16rs@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York

[checkmatechamp13]

So the event on the 18th is closed to the public?

 

Also shocked that the Bx15 gets the second most usage on 125th. Surely thought the M101 would take that,

 

Open house is exactly what it means: Open to the public.

 

I think workshop means that the public has more input, whereas with the open house they're just presenting what they plan to do (at least I think that's how it works anyway)

[qjtransitmaster]

So the event on the 18th is closed to the public?

 

Also shocked that the Bx15 gets the second most usage on 125th.  Surely thought the M101 would take that,

M101 duplicates the subway inspite of having extremely high ridership. Bx15 serves a subway-less corridor.

[Mysterious2train]

So the event on the 18th is closed to the public?

 

Also shocked that the Bx15 gets the second most usage on 125th.  Surely thought the M101 would take that,

 

There's another workshop on this monday the 18th.

https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mu8rqk2bv0v2lk3hh36r8s16rs@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/New_York

 

The event this Monday is specifically a Commmunity Advisory Committee [CAC]. 

 

To quote the DOT's page: "The CAC is composed of a broad range of stakeholders, including elected officials, Community Board members, civic neighborhood groups, business organizations, and major business organizations, and major area institutions. The CAC will meet every 5 months over the course of the project."

 

It's not really for the average rider the way a workshop or open house is.

 

 

Open house is exactly what it means: Open to the public.

 

I think workshop means that the public has more input, whereas with the open house they're just presenting what they plan to do (at least I think that's how it works anyway)

 

More-or-less, yeah.

[Mysterious2train]

M101 duplicates the subway inspite of having extremely high ridership. Bx15 serves a subway-less corridor.

 

While that's technically true, the Bx15 is pretty slow and it really wouldn't surprise me if people took the train up to the Hub where they could be taking the bus - for example, if you're at 125 and Lenox during Rush Hour, where the goes in 10 mins the Bx15 takes over half-an-hour. Plus the Hub also has access to the Bx41 or Bx55. But then again what I'm saying doesn't really argue your point.

 

While it's true that the M101 duplicates the subway I don't really think that's the cause for the low ridership. I mean, Lex Av and 124 St ][where the M101 first turns down Lex, and where the M103 starts] tends to be a fairly big pick-up stop, in the opposite direction you'll have 3 Av and 125 St be a pick-up stop.

 

You'll have people who are going to Lexington Av but get off at either 3 Av [coming from the East] or Park Av [coming from the West] just because actually moving to cross Lexington Av usually takes so long. But I realize I'm not really debating your point.

 

Maybe the subway does have something to do it, since I tend to notice more people riding L-shaped trips on the M101 up Amsterdam rather than down Lexington, but a lot of people going to the subway take it to go to the Bronx [particularly on the , but also the and naturally.] I don't see many people transferring to the downtown train, so we can presume most of those people just stay on the bus [but since the vast majority of those people generally aren't going beyond 96th, it's logical to stay on the bus.]

 

That's one thing I've noticed - most people going beyond 125 and Lex really only ride as far as 96 St. 96 St being the border between U.E.S. and East Harlem probably has something to do that.

 

Also, looking at the M60's old timetable before it became an all-artic route [and thus got less service], it seems that, for a large portion of the day, it ran the most frequent of all the 4 routes, barring Bx15 short-turns during AM Rush or M101 short-turns. I wonder if that plays a role in it. Countless are the times of seeing two NG M60s traveling together. Now that it has artics, the Bx15 seems to be the most frequent one now [The 15 used to be pretty frequent too, but it got artics in June 2010 and a little less service just like the M60. Old timetable here http://web.archive.org/web/20100120103835/http://www.mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/bronx/bx015cur.pdf]

 

I'd imagine Amsterdam Av is the busiest branch overall, but since it's served by two different routes the numbers don't really reflect it. 

 

As for Queens vs. the Bronx, I can't really say. I want to say Queens just because it seems like on the average M60 buses on its fuller than Bx15s on its bridge, but then again, there's probably a ton of other factors in this situation.

[WorkerX]

The event this Monday is specifically a Commmunity Advisory Committee [CAC]. 

 

To quote the DOT's page: "The CAC is composed of a broad range of stakeholders, including elected officials, Community Board members, civic neighborhood groups, business organizations, and major business organizations, and major area institutions. The CAC will meet every 5 months over the course of the project."

 

It's not really for the average rider the way a workshop or open house is.

 

I seem more interested in going to that being that the 125th St changes would affect not only my work commute but my local neighborhood, like the DOT meetings last year to change 7th Ave north of 133rd St.  Can't promise to make it due to my job sometimes forcing OT (like the last two Mondays they held).

[BreeddekalbL]

quick question how many stops does the m60 make on 125th?

[w8Hou]

quick question how many stops does the m60 make on 125th?

SAINT NICHOLAS AVE

 

FREDRICK DOUGLASS BLVD

 

ADAM C POWELL BLVD

 

MALCOLM X BLVD

 

5TH AVE

 

MADISON AVE

 

PARK AVE

 

LEXINGTON AVE

 

3RD AVE

 

2ND AVE

[BreeddekalbL]

SAINT NICHOLAS AVE

 

FREDRICK DOUGLASS BLVD

 

ADAM C POWELL BLVD

 

MALCOLM X BLVD

 

5TH AVE

 

MADISON AVE

 

PARK AVE

 

LEXINGTON AVE

 

3RD AVE

 

2ND AVE

 

thank you ,

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004d80fe99099c789eea

 

what do you think i cut the stops on 125th in half and in queens also, stops are noted with stickys