New X17 expanded weekend service

[MHV9218]

Pfft, please... Express bus riders and MetroNorth riders are for the most part fairly affluent and we pay some of the highest rates in taxes so I don't even want to hear that nonsense. I'm sure you count all of those farebeaters that mouch off of us as part of "sound taxpayers as well."

 

 

When you get into your "affluent" nonsense is where I always get annoyed here... First of all, farebeaters mooch off ALL of us. That includes me, who according to you might as well be living in a shelter cause I only pay $2.25. What bus you get on says nothing about how wealthy you are, I've made this point time and time again. Metro North too, it may seem expensive to take it as a luxury, but if that's what you need, then that's what you need. I've got friends of mine who come into the city on Metro North from the Bronx (not Riverdale either) who nobody would accuse of being rich, it's just the only option they've got to get in town in time. Whether or not I can fork over $5.50 or whatever the Metro North fare is, that doesn't make me affluent, nor does not wanting to spend it make me poor. And we ALL hate farebeaters. So stop with this.

[checkmatechamp13]

When you get into your "affluent" nonsense is where I always get annoyed here... First of all, farebeaters mooch off ALL of us. That includes me, who according to you might as well be living in a shelter cause I only pay $2.25. What bus you get on says nothing about how wealthy you are, I've made this point time and time again. Metro North too, it may seem expensive to take it as a luxury, but if that's what you need, then that's what you need. I've got friends of mine who come into the city on Metro North from the Bronx (not Riverdale either) who nobody would accuse of being rich, it's just the only option they've got to get in town in time. Whether or not I can fork over $5.50 or whatever the Metro North fare is, that doesn't make me affluent, nor does not wanting to spend it make me poor. And we ALL hate farebeaters. So stop with this.

 

 

Exactly. There are people who commute all the way from areas like Orange County or even the Poconos or Philadelphia (because they were priced out of NYC). The only reason they're paying the high fare is because the lower cost of living makes up for it. The same holds true to a certain extent for express bus riders. You get more value for your money in areas without subway service, and that helps you pay for the higher fare.

 

Let's break out the stats:

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/Brooklyn-New-York.html

 

Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $570,300

 

http://www.city-data.com/city/Staten-Island-New-York.html

 

Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $449,400

 

And for the most part, the houses out here are larger, and you have a higher percentage of "better" areas. If you could get a larger house 20% cheaper, in a better neighborhood, wouldn't you pony up the extra money for the express bus?

[161 New York]

This weekend's report:

 

Saturday: I stayed on Staten Island

 

Sunday:

 

9:00 AM - 36 Passengers! 8 were on board prior to Eltingville Transit Center to my surprise. No one got on/off at Bay Ridge.

 

2:40 PM departure from Park Place: There were only 12 or so passengers. Two discharged at Bay Ridge, one got on a Bay Ridge and got off near the SI Mall.

 

I also got a good glimpse at the Staten Island-bound Bay Ridge stop says "Arden Heights".

[B35 via Church]

I was over there this morning.... decided to ride the B82 to bay pkwy subway .... From there, I was gonna ride the B1 to the last stop, but I got fed up waiting for it & decided to walk with the morning breeze out (which is perfect weather for me).... This was around 6am.... Damn bus caught up to me at ft. hamilton pkwy, packed than a motha'.....

 

Long story short, I walked from Bay pkwy to 86th/4th to try to ride one of the SI routes... but that was a flop, so I walked down to 92nd & eventually caught the B70... In any event, I saw said x17 stop as I was walking along 86th also (I didn't fan out there for that reason though).....

[AndrewJC]

The point is that the express bus allows them to have a reasonable commute. No need to state the obvious. Some folks like living there for a more suburban life. That doesn't mean that they don't deserve rapid transit.

 

 

You can choose to live wherever you like, be it highly suburban or highly urban or anywhere in between. But choices have consequences, and if you choose to find your suburban lifestyle on a large island in the middle of New York Harbor with no subway service and no direct bridge or tunnel connecting to Manhattan, you shouldn't be terribly surprised to find that a commute to Manhattan is time-consuming and costly.

 

People who have short commutes have them not because somebody declared them "deserving" of rapid transit but rather because they valued a short commute and made their choices accordingly. Chances are they had to sacrifice something in exchange, such as the size of their home or its cost, or perhaps they ended up with a lifestyle not quite as suburban as they would have preferred in a world with no tradeoffs.

 

Pfft, please... Express bus riders and MetroNorth riders are for the most part fairly affluent and we pay some of the highest rates in taxes so I don't even want to hear that nonsense. I'm sure you count all of those farebeaters that mouch off of us as part of "sound taxpayers as well."

 

 

I'm sorry, that's not how taxation works. One can argue to what degree services should be supported by taxation and how tax revenues should be distributed, but arguing that tax revenues should specifically subsidize the wealthy is absurd.

 

Not to mention that the subway carries people of all incomes, from very low to very high. Plenty of commuters to Wall Street from the Upper East Side and Upper West Side and Brooklyn Heights are very wealthy, and they ride the subway because it's the best way to get to work. (Even when the UES had an express bus option, it carried a tiny minority of commuters to Wall Street.)

 

The fact remains that express buses are subsidized far more heavily than local buses or the subway.

 

(And I'm not sure why you're bringing up Metro-North.)

 

Yes, technically is the key word... Staten Island is unique in that folks rely on the express buses and they do transfer ANYWHERE. knows this... You have folks on the North Shore for example that may only have access to the certain parts of Midtown so they may need to get another express bus at some point and so they change to another express bus to keep their commutes within reason.

 

 

There are designated express bus transfer points. They are among the few exceptions to the general rule that express buses have pick-up segments (for pick-ups only) and drop-off segments (for drop-offs only). Some drivers may opt to let you get off the bus at a pick-up stop, potentially delaying service for the other riders, but you may on occasion unwittingly find yourself in Manhattan.

 

I also got a good glimpse at the Staten Island-bound Bay Ridge stop says "Arden Heights".

 

 

Which suggests that the Bay Ridge stops are probably pick-up and drop-off stops in both directions.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You can choose to live wherever you like, be it highly suburban or highly urban or anywhere in between. But choices have consequences, and if you choose to find your suburban lifestyle on a large island in the middle of New York Harbor with no subway service and no direct bridge or tunnel connecting to Manhattan, you shouldn't be terribly surprised to find that a commute to Manhattan is time-consuming and costly.

 

People who have short commutes have them not because somebody declared them "deserving" of rapid transit but rather because they valued a short commute and made their choices accordingly. Chances are they had to sacrifice something in exchange, such as the size of their home or its cost, or perhaps they ended up with a lifestyle not quite as suburban as they would have preferred in a world with no tradeoffs.

That's all obvious. The point still remains that commutes should not overly cumbersome when they don't have to be.

 

I'm sorry, that's not how taxation works. One can argue to what degree services should be supported by taxation and how tax revenues should be distributed, but arguing that tax revenues should specifically subsidize the wealthy is absurd.

 

Not to mention that the subway carries people of all incomes, from very low to very high. Plenty of commuters to Wall Street from the Upper East Side and Upper West Side and Brooklyn Heights are very wealthy, and they ride the subway because it's the best way to get to work. (Even when the UES had an express bus option, it carried a tiny minority of commuters to Wall Street.)

 

The fact remains that express buses are subsidized far more heavily than local buses or the subway.

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that upper middle class folks tend to pay some of the highest taxes, so there's a trade off.

 

(And I'm not sure why you're bringing up Metro-North.)

Maybe because I use both MetroNorth and the express bus... Ya think?

 

There are designated express bus transfer points. They are among the few exceptions to the general rule that express buses have pick-up segments (for pick-ups only) and drop-off segments (for drop-offs only). Some drivers may opt to let you get off the bus at a pick-up stop, potentially delaying service for the other riders, but you may on occasion unwittingly find yourself in Manhattan.

I've been riding express buses for years and I've never seen a driver deny a passenger on Staten Island from getting off during pick up segments of the route. It would be completely absurd to do so. There's a lady that takes the X30 and transfers to the X14 every morning and that most certainly isn't a official transfer point.

 

When you get into your "affluent" nonsense is where I always get annoyed here... First of all, farebeaters mooch off ALL of us. That includes me, who according to you might as well be living in a shelter cause I only pay $2.25. What bus you get on says nothing about how wealthy you are, I've made this point time and time again. Metro North too, it may seem expensive to take it as a luxury, but if that's what you need, then that's what you need. I've got friends of mine who come into the city on Metro North from the Bronx (not Riverdale either) who nobody would accuse of being rich, it's just the only option they've got to get in town in time. Whether or not I can fork over $5.50 or whatever the Metro North fare is, that doesn't make me affluent, nor does not wanting to spend it make me poor. And we ALL hate farebeaters. So stop with this.

 

Well yes of course you have folks that ride MetroNorth that aren't affluent in the Bronx.... I mean Morris Heights and University Heights are two of the poorest areas in the city and for some reason they've got MetroNorth stops, though it isn't a surprise that they get very few riders if any.

[checkmatechamp13]

That's all obvious. The point still remains that commutes should not overly cumbersome when they don't have to be.

 

 

Which is not the case here.

 

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that upper middle class folks tend to pay some of the highest taxes, so there's a trade off.

 

 

Yeah, and some of those "upper middle class folks" use the subway. The express bus system carries what? 50,000 riders a day? The subway carries 5 million. Out of those 5 million, I'm sure a lot more than 50,000 (which would be 1% of the riders) are "upper middle class". That's not even counting wealthy/upper middle class people who ride local buses.

 

Maybe because I use both MetroNorth and the express bus... Ya think?

 

 

Even though Metro-North isn't relevant to this discussion.

 

I've been riding express buses for years and I've never seen a driver deny a passenger on Staten Island from getting off during pick up segments of the route. It would be completely absurd to do so. There's a lady that takes the X30 and transfers to the X14 every morning and that most certainly isn't a official transfer point.

 

 

What part of "being courteous" is not clear? The drivers either felt sympathetic towards the passengers and wanted to help save them time, or they just didn't want to argue.

[Shortline Bus]

Guys we way off topic again. Feel free to create a new topic on express bus vs commuter rails. If we dont return to X17 weekend service or even SI express bus service as a whole this will be closed. Thanks

[checkmatechamp13]

Guys we way off topic again. Feel free to create a new topic on express bus vs commuter rails. If we dont return to X17 weekend service or even SI express bus service as a whole this will be closed. Thanks

 

 

This topic was discussing X17 weekend service. We're talking about the whole drop-off/pickup rule.

[AndrewJC]

That's all obvious. The point still remains that commutes should not overly cumbersome when they don't have to be.

 

 

If the only way for you to avoid a cumbersome commute is to accept large subsidies from other riders, then you may on occasion find yourself stuck with a cumbersome commute.

 

Especially when, in this case, what makes this commute supposedly cumbersome is that the X17 now makes one additional stop on weekends!

 

That wasn't my point at all. My point was that upper middle class folks tend to pay some of the highest taxes, so there's a trade off.

 

 

The vast majority of upper middle class transit riders in this city ride the subway and local bus.

 

Maybe because I use both MetroNorth and the express bus... Ya think?

 

 

Pardon me for not assuming that the world revolves around you.

 

I've been riding express buses for years and I've never seen a driver deny a passenger on Staten Island from getting off during pick up segments of the route. It would be completely absurd to do so. There's a lady that takes the X30 and transfers to the X14 every morning and that most certainly isn't a official transfer point.

 

 

Dropping people off at pick-up-only stops slows down the service, just as making one additional stop in Brooklyn slows down the service. Why do you object to one but not the other?

 

Well yes of course you have folks that ride MetroNorth that aren't affluent in the Bronx.... I mean Morris Heights and University Heights are two of the poorest areas in the city and for some reason they've got MetroNorth stops, though it isn't a surprise that they get very few riders if any.

 

 

Metro-North goes in two directions. Most of the Bronx stations are primarily used for reverse commutes.

[Shortline Bus]

 

 

Metro-North goes in two directions. Most of the Bronx stations are primarily used for reverse commutes.

 

 

Yup. Especially in Fordham where majority(not all)of Bronx riders work or attend college near the New Rochelle, Stamford or White Plains stations.

 

While i think the X28 should run on Saturdays and no Sunday service, at least the MTA made a compromise for Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights riders by having the X17 stop at 86th St. Something Previous Boss Jay Walder would not do.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If the only way for you to avoid a cumbersome commute is to accept large subsidies from other riders, then you may on occasion find yourself stuck with a cumbersome commute.

 

Especially when, in this case, what makes this commute supposedly cumbersome is that the X17 now makes one additional stop on weekends!

It's funny how Staten Island is taking from others except for when others are taking from Staten Island. Then it's okay.

 

The vast majority of upper middle class transit riders in this city ride the subway and local bus.

Good for them.

 

[Pardon me for not assuming that the world revolves around you.

You're excused.

 

Dropping people off at pick-up-only stops slows down the service, just as making one additional stop in Brooklyn slows down the service. Why do you object to one but not the other?

Because if you start doing this with drop-off service then it is no longer Drop-off only service now is it? The pick-up stops where folks get off at for the most part are still used for the primary purpose of moving folks to Manhattan and that's the primary purpose of Staten Island express routes is to move folks from Staten Island to Manhattan and vice versa.

 

Metro-North goes in two directions. Most of the Bronx stations are primarily used for reverse commutes.

 

Even so, that doesn't excuse the fact that some stations are lightly used which was the original point.

[Quill Depot]

My Dad used to take the 5:41AM train from Tarrytown every morning. You get used to the high prices.

 

Even so, that doesn't excuse the fact that some stations are lightly used which was the original point.

 

 

Express buses are lightly used. Everyone, VG8 can walk to the train in Riverdale, yet he refuses to take it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My Dad used to take the 5:41AM train from Tarrytown every morning. You get used to the high prices.

 

 

 

Express buses are lightly used. Everyone, VG8 can walk to the train in Riverdale, yet he refuses to take it.

 

LOL... Oh boy... This has nothing to do with the topic at hand #1 and #2 you're wrong. Express buses on Staten Island aren't lightly used.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

LOL... Oh boy... This has nothing to do with the topic at hand #1 and #2 you're wrong. Express buses on Staten Island aren't lightly used.

 

I think he was reffering to the bronx. However express buses in SI and the bronx basically anywhere FAR from the subway & LIRR/MNRR get very good usage if not quite high. @ quill only duplicate expresses are lightly used like BM2,4&5 And QM15 (off-peak) & qm3,18 get dismal use bxm4 =joke and soon bxm11 may fall prey to enhanced metronorth north bronx service. This argument is useless cmon guys this isn't RAIL VS BUS. In NJ the inverse is true in terms of speed bus vs rail.

[AndrewJC]

It's funny how Staten Island is taking from others except for when others are taking from Staten Island. Then it's okay.

 

 

Nobody's taking from Staten Island. Stop being paranoid.

 

Because if you start doing this with drop-off service then it is no longer Drop-off only service now is it? The pick-up stops where folks get off at for the most part are still used for the primary purpose of moving folks to Manhattan and that's the primary purpose of Staten Island express routes is to move folks from Staten Island to Manhattan and vice versa.

 

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

Getting off an express bus at a pick-up-only stop is OK, because maybe (or maybe not) you're doing it to go from Staten Island to Manhattan.

 

But getting on or off an express bus in Brooklyn is terrible, because then you're using it to travel to or from Brooklyn.

 

Do you realize how absurd that is?

 

Even so, that doesn't excuse the fact that some stations are lightly used which was the original point.

 

 

As are some express bus stops. So what?

 

LOL... Oh boy... This has nothing to do with the topic at hand #1 and #2 you're wrong. Express buses on Staten Island aren't lightly used.

 

 

Citywide, express bus ridership is tiny in comparison to total system ridership. If all of the express buses were to vanish overnight, most New Yorkers wouldn't notice. If the subway were to vanish overnight, the city would be unable to function.

[qjtransitmaster]

Nobody's taking from Staten Island. Stop being paranoid.

 

 

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

Getting off an express bus at a pick-up-only stop is OK, because maybe (or maybe not) you're doing it to go from Staten Island to Manhattan.

 

But getting on or off an express bus in Brooklyn is terrible, because then you're using it to travel to or from Brooklyn.

 

Do you realize how absurd that is?

 

 

 

As are some express bus stops. So what?

 

 

 

Citywide, express bus ridership is tiny in comparison to total system ridership. If all of the express buses were to vanish overnight, most New Yorkers wouldn't notice. If the subway were to vanish overnight, the city would be unable to function.

 

except staten island and the bronx LOL

 

Ignore via 8 you and I both know when it comes to express buses he abandons ALL LOGIC AND REASON!!!!!!!!! You are wasting your time AndrewJC

[checkmatechamp13]

Express buses are lightly used. Everyone, VG8 can walk to the train in Riverdale, yet he refuses to take it.

 

 

Well, to be fair, it's a hilly walk and the train doesn't go to the East Side of Manhattan the way the express bus does. As for being lightly used, you can't make that generalization. A lot of the SI express routes perform comparably to the SI locals, so by that logic, the local routes out here are also lightly used. (A lot of the Bronx routes perform similarly to the SI routes). A lot of the high cost on the SI routes is due to the costs of deadheading and split shifts, so once you factor that in, the express routes out here are especially well-used.

 

You may say that it's just one borough, but you have to consider that something like 3/4 of express bus riders live on Staten Island, so that's a major flaw in that argument.

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

Getting off an express bus at a pick-up-only stop is OK, because maybe (or maybe not) you're doing it to go from Staten Island to Manhattan.

 

But getting on or off an express bus in Brooklyn is terrible, because then you're using it to travel to or from Brooklyn.

 

Do you realize how absurd that is?

 

 

I wouldn't even bother with him, Andrew. He's specifically admitted to using the express bus for intra-SI traveling (with no intention of making a transfer to another express bus to get to Manhattan). Case closed.

 

except staten island and the bronx LOL

 

 

The buses are well-used, but the ridership is still tiny compared to the overall ridership.

 

Andrew's point is that VG8's comments about "Express bus riders pay higher taxes and subsidize local bus & subway riders" are complete BS. Why? Because it's not like all the "upper middle class" people are taking the express buses. Many of them use the subway & local buses.

 

Let me put it to you this way. There are 5 million daily subway riders. Let's say (for argument's sake) that 10% of them are "upper middle class". That means that there are 500,000 "upper middle class" riders on the subway. The express bus carries 50,000 riders and (for argument's sake), let's say all of them are upper middle class.

 

So you have 550,000 "upper middle class" riders, and 500,000 (which would be about 91%) of them use the subway. That means only 9% of them use the express bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Nobody's taking from Staten Island. Stop being paranoid.

And you know this because??

 

So let me see if I have this right.

 

Getting off an express bus at a pick-up-only stop is OK, because maybe (or maybe not) you're doing it to go from Staten Island to Manhattan.

 

But getting on or off an express bus in Brooklyn is terrible, because then you're using it to travel to or from Brooklyn.

 

Do you realize how absurd that is?

I just realize that A, you don't know much about Staten Island and B, if it was so absurd, people wouldn't do it every morning, but obviously there's a good reason why they do... Maybe it's because it speeds up their commutes. Furthermore, I think people have forgotten what express buses are... They function as a commuter service, whose primary purpose is to get folks to and from mainly suburban areas or far out areas that generally lack subway service to Manhattan. If we look at all of the express bus routes currently in the city, we see that they serve this exact function and that's one reason the has axed all other express bus service in Manhattan for example where possible.

 

You complain about how expensive express bus service is and then on the same hand you promote opening up a can of worms that would have other communities potentially asking for express bus service for the same purpose. There is nothing stopping them from making the same argument.

 

Citywide, express bus ridership is tiny in comparison to total system ridership. If all of the express buses were to vanish overnight, most New Yorkers wouldn't notice. If the subway were to vanish overnight, the city would be unable to function.

 

You could make that argument about some other local bus lines as well so are you advocating getting rid of service just because you feel that it only serves the needs of a few? I mean you have express bus lines that carry millions of passengers a year. I get sick of people harping on express buses when most of them don't use them, don't know their main function, nor do they have any real alternatives for the communities that rely on them.

 

They b*tch and moan about how expensive it is to subsidize them yet the alternatives would be far more costly to run, so in sum the attitude is that since these communities don't have subway service or MetroNorth or the LIRR, then they don't matter and I think it's disgusting. Meanwhile MetroNorth and the LIRR are also very costly to run as well, but you never hear about that though and not all of those trains carry tons of passengers either. There are times when some trains are lightly used, so by your logic we should cut them. We should do the same thing for lightly used buses and subways too.

[AndrewJC]

Ignore via 8 you and I both know when it comes to express buses he abandons ALL LOGIC AND REASON!!!!!!!!! You are wasting your time AndrewJC

 

I wouldn't even bother with him, Andrew. He's specifically admitted to using the express bus for intra-SI traveling (with no intention of making a transfer to another express bus to get to Manhattan). Case closed.

 

 

Oh, I'm just having fun. But I think I've had my fill for the time being.

 

Andrew's point is that VG8's comments about "Express bus riders pay higher taxes and subsidize local bus & subway riders" are complete BS. Why? Because it's not like all the "upper middle class" people are taking the express buses. Many of them use the subway & local buses.

 

Let me put it to you this way. There are 5 million daily subway riders. Let's say (for argument's sake) that 10% of them are "upper middle class". That means that there are 500,000 "upper middle class" riders on the subway. The express bus carries 50,000 riders and (for argument's sake), let's say all of them are upper middle class.

 

So you have 550,000 "upper middle class" riders, and 500,000 (which would be about 91%) of them use the subway. That means only 9% of them use the express bus.

 

 

Thank you.

[checkmatechamp13]

You complain about how expensive express bus service is and then on the same hand you promote opening up a can of worms that would have other communities potentially asking for express bus service for the same purpose. There is nothing stopping them from making the same argument.

 

 

And there's nothing from stopping the MTA from shooting down their arguments and not giving them the service. The X17 was intended to serve X28 riders heading to Manhattan, but in the process, it also helps SI riders heading to Brooklyn. If there's another area where the same idea holds true, then they can have express service as well.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

And you know this because??

 

 

I just realize that A, you don't know much about Staten Island and B, if it was so absurd, people wouldn't do it every morning, but obviously there's a good reason why they do... Maybe it's because it speeds up their commutes. Furthermore, I think people have forgotten what express buses are... They function as a commuter service, whose primary purpose is to get folks to and from mainly suburban areas or far out areas that generally lack subway service to Manhattan. If we look at all of the express bus routes currently in the city, we see that they serve this exact function and that's one reason the has axed all other express bus service in Manhattan for example where possible.

 

You complain about how expensive express bus service is and then on the same hand you promote opening up a can of worms that would have other communities potentially asking for express bus service for the same purpose. There is nothing stopping them from making the same argument.

 

You could make that argument about some other local bus lines as well so are you advocating getting rid of service just because you feel that it only serves the needs of a few? I mean you have express bus lines that carry millions of passengers a year. I get sick of people harping on express buses when most of them don't use them, don't know their main function, nor do they have any real alternatives for the communities that rely on them.

 

They b*tch and moan about how expensive it is to subsidize them yet the alternatives would be far more costly to run, so in sum the attitude is that since these communities don't have subway service or MetroNorth or the LIRR, then they don't matter and I think it's disgusting. Meanwhile MetroNorth and the LIRR are also very costly to run as well, but you never hear about that though and not all of those trains carry tons of passengers either. There are times when some trains are lightly used, so by your logic we should cut them. We should do the same thing for lightly used buses and subways too.

One problem boss MNRR and LIRR ridership unlike express buses is skyrocketing and then MTA IS INCREASING MNRR&LIRR service so your argument about cost to operate is flawed you can't compare express buses to LIRR/MNRR. In addition what lines don't carry? Last I checked harlem/hudson and new haven lines ALL HAVE HIGH ridership. LIRR ok west hempstead and oyster bay lines have low ridership but thats it. One more thing you are right about express buses BXM and SI X lines but that argument of little to no alternatives hold no water in queens and brooklyn except in the case of X27& QM2&5/6 & BM1 other than that your argument falls apart real fast. One more thing what MTA did with X17 can only practically be done on a handful of express lines. Plus what about LIC which is underserved if your origin is outside of the subway's reach.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One problem boss MNRR and LIRR ridership unlike express buses is skyrocketing and then MTA IS INCREASING MNRR&LIRR service so your argument about cost to operate is flawed you can't compare express buses to LIRR/MNRR. In addition what lines don't carry? Last I checked harlem/hudson and new haven lines ALL HAVE HIGH ridership. LIRR ok west hempstead and oyster bay lines have low ridership but thats it. One more thing you are right about express buses BXM and SI X lines but that argument of little to no alternatives hold no water in queens and brooklyn except in the case of X27& QM2&5/6 & BM1 other than that your argument falls apart real fast. One more thing what MTA did with X17 can only practically be done on a handful of express lines. Plus what about LIC which is underserved if your origin is outside of the subway's reach.

 

 

It's not flawed at all... You're right... Ridership on the MNRR especially is skyrocketing, yet they're still planning to raise the fares.... What does that tell you...??

[qjtransitmaster]

It's not flawed at all... You're right... Ridership on the MNRR especially is skyrocketing, yet they're still planning to raise the fares.... What does that tell you...??

 

If the fare increase to rail fare is mild I will eat the cost in exchange for more service thank you very much the NH line is like Connecticut's subway line practically. No matter what time of day even on sundays you will NOT get a seat if you board at stamford if you do it's because so many people are getting off at stamford coming from eastern stations. Sadly SLE's ridership is dismal I was literally on a friday night the only guy on the train from old saybrook en rte to NH all by myself on the train that is pathetic!!!!!! I was shocked they had weekend service maybe if all trains went to new London it's ridership won't be so dismal heck there is ROW directly to Mohegan Sun!!!!! Meaning the train can literally go directly to the casino sadly they do not do it. If they did then SLE would probably need to run 24/7.

 

Sorry for a bit off topic

 

Back to MTA yes but MTA needs to try crosshonoring MNRR and LIRR passes on NYCT