DesignLine Commuter Coach Discussion

[IronboundNJT]

Im on the 139 line and rode both 7202 and 7205. Although this is my opinion only, I was not impressed with what I saw.

 

Pluses

Air conditioning is much improved. The blowers are positioned on the top of the Windows and the air circulation is much stronger.

Windows are larger.

 

Negatives:

Arrangement of the Lighting: The lighting is not recessed as they are on the MCI's. They are on the edge of the package racks directly over isle and passenger seating. The lights are way to bright and absolutely blinding.

 

Seating:

Although the seats do have a reclining button, they recline only about one inch. The seats are not made out of Fabric as they are on the MCI's, but made out of vinyl, This gives the interior layout of the bus a very dated 1980's look.

 

Package Compartment Underneath Bus:

None

 

General Bus Mechanics:

Overall the ride was very bumpy. I'm not sure if it was the driver or not, but the pickup on the bus seemed slowwer then the MCI's.

 

Overall, I was not impressed. 5/10. It's to bad that MCI overbid on this contract.

 

So all those handles along the under side of the bus are lock or open to nowhere and I just love DL love of adding spoliers (or at least what resembles one) to their buses

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Im on the 139 line and rode both 7202 and 7205. Although this is my opinion only, I was not impressed with what I saw.

 

Pluses

Air conditioning is much improved. The blowers are positioned on the top of the Windows and the air circulation is much stronger.

Windows are larger.

 

Negatives:

Arrangement of the Lighting: The lighting is not recessed as they are on the MCI's. They are on the edge of the package racks directly over isle and passenger seating. The lights are way to bright and absolutely blinding.

 

Seating:

Although the seats do have a reclining button, they recline only about one inch. The seats are not made out of Fabric as they are on the MCI's, but made out of vinyl, This gives the interior layout of the bus a very dated 1980's look.

 

Package Compartment Underneath Bus:

None

 

General Bus Mechanics:

Overall the ride was very bumpy. I'm not sure if it was the driver or not, but the pickup on the bus seemed slowwer then the MCI's.

 

Overall, I was not impressed. 5/10. It's to bad that MCI overbid on this contract.

Sigh... NJT made a big mistake here.

 

I knew about the seats being vinyl and having little recline. Did NOT know about there being no under-bus storage, that is BAD.

 

Good to see another 139 rider on here. Too many folks are foaming over this order ("holy shit DesignLine's back" and "holy shit an 'express bus' that isn't an MCI") without taking into consideration the people who actually commute on them every day.

[PinePower]

I still dont think this is going to go over well with 139 riders. It's more of a transit bus style ride with a transit style engine and suspension, and seats. I'm sure Academy will appreciate the extra business! 

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I still dont think this is going to go over well with 139 riders. It's more of a transit bus style ride with a transit style engine and suspension, and seats. I'm sure Academy will appreciate the extra business! 

Yup, Academy's gonna be doing a hell of a lot more runs if/when the order fails or needs serious modifications. Problem is even they might not have enough buses, I mean we're talking 76 out of service for who knows how long. We could see another situation like the original 7101-7118 (before the MTA rejects), leasing used diesel MCIs until another order can be made.

 

The ISL G is unavoidable here though, it's the only CNG bus engine available nowadays. Also remember they're 330HP versions and not 250/280HPs like they use on transit buses. Wish those S60Gs were still around. And the seats are NJT's fault, gotta admit that could have been a problem if MCIs were ordered too. The recline not so much, but the seat covers, definitely.

[PinePower]

Yup, Academy's gonna be doing a hell of a lot more runs if/when the order fails or needs serious modifications. Problem is even they might not have enough buses, I mean we're talking 76 out of service for who knows how long. We could see another situation like the original 7101-7118 (before the MTA rejects), leasing used diesel MCIs until another order can be made.

 

The ISL G is unavoidable here though, it's the only CNG bus engine available nowadays. Also remember they're 330HP versions and not 250/280HPs like they use on transit buses. Wish those S60Gs were still around. And the seats are NJT's fault, gotta admit that could have been a problem if MCIs were ordered too. The recline not so much, but the seat covers, definitely.

 

NJT should've been able to find reason to reject the Designline order. Sure the buses have a cool appearance but that means nothing to those that will commute in them everyday, and the operators that will drive them everyday. Those Howell riders won't care for the rough ride (have there been any complaints yet from them?) I also think that unlike the CNG MCI's these will only be used on Rt.9 rush hour runs, esp with no luggage compartment, that won't fly on the 137 express (which sometimes uses CNG MCI's). NJT should cut their losses now and return this order, lease some diesels, maybe consider re-tanking the CNG MCI's. Maybe Repower them with ISL-G too. The shame is that most of the 7000s are still in good running condition and could go for a few more years, in that time NJT could have MCI fill a new CNG order. The seats are most certainly NJT's fault, really dont know what they were thinking. This bad for NJT because they will lose riders, some may not return, lost revenue = less service. Bad all around. 

[Orion VII 4 Life]

NJT should've been able to find reason to reject the Designline order. Sure the buses have a cool appearance but that means nothing to those that will commute in them everyday, and the operators that will drive them everyday. Those Howell riders won't care for the rough ride (have there been any complaints yet from them?) I also think that unlike the CNG MCI's these will only be used on Rt.9 rush hour runs, esp with no luggage compartment, that won't fly on the 137 express (which sometimes uses CNG MCI's). NJT should cut their losses now and return this order, lease some diesels, maybe consider re-tanking the CNG MCI's. Maybe Repower them with ISL-G too. The shame is that most of the 7000s are still in good running condition and could go for a few more years, in that time NJT could have MCI fill a new CNG order. The seats are most certainly NJT's fault, really dont know what they were thinking. This bad for NJT because they will lose riders, some may not return, lost revenue = less service. Bad all around. 

The issue is, Designline was the low bidder. By law NJT had to order the buses from them, they could have probably questioned the history of their buses and the fact that this is a new, untested model but with Designline being in the situation they're in with absolutely no business, they'd do whatever they could to keep the order and they'd probably be successful at doing that. Now that they're in service and not doing well, NJT definitely has more of a case against Designline should they decide to reject the order. 

 

Absolutely there have been rider complaints, this is Route 9! Not only have the riders been complaining, but the Howell crew has been having trouble with the buses themselves. Transmission issues for one, the fact that the wheel has to be straight to open the door, the list goes on. NJT probably can't (and the dumba$$ senior management probably doesn't want to) reject the buses just yet with there being just 5 units in service, and Designline will probably push NJT to send the buses back to them and do whatever they can to make them better, in the end they could end up suing NJT. Remember, if the EcoCoach fails Designline, they could end up out of business.

 

Absolutely the 13x routes will lose business. People will take the train, Academy, or whatever else if they find 1 thing wrong with "their" bus, they do not mess around out here. 

 

I see this turning very bad once more come into service, for NJT, the riders, and Designline alike. Service all around the area is gonna be messed up if the buses have to be taken out of service, Designline taking legal action against NJT (which is very likely to happen) is gonna prevent NJT from having enough buses to run their services. Even if Designline takes back the buses to completely revamp them that will have a big effect on service. Best case scenario is NJT removing the buses from service, leasing new/used buses or re-tanking the current CNGs IMMEDIATELY, and Designline and NJT duking it out in court without it having an effect on everyday service, or better yet Designline realizing their mistakes, taking back the buses and trying to do things better the next time around without involving the legal system. It's all in NJT senior management's hands now, problem is they never do anything right.

[PinePower]

The issue is, Designline was the low bidder. By law NJT had to order the buses from them, they could have probably questioned the history of their buses and the fact that this is a new, untested model but with Designline being in the situation they're in with absolutely no business, they'd do whatever they could to keep the order and they'd probably be successful at doing that. Now that they're in service and not doing well, NJT definitely has more of a case against Designline should they decide to reject the order. 

 

Absolutely there have been rider complaints, this is Route 9! Not only have the riders been complaining, but the Howell crew has been having trouble with the buses themselves. Transmission issues for one, the fact that the wheel has to be straight to open the door, the list goes on. NJT probably can't (and the dumba$$ senior management probably doesn't want to) reject the buses just yet with there being just 5 units in service, and Designline will probably push NJT to send the buses back to them and do whatever they can to make them better, in the end they could end up suing NJT. Remember, if the EcoCoach fails Designline, they could end up out of business.

 

Absolutely the 13x routes will lose business. People will take the train, Academy, or whatever else if they find 1 thing wrong with "their" bus, they do not mess around out here. 

 

I see this turning very bad once more come into service, for NJT, the riders, and Designline alike. Service all around the area is gonna be messed up if the buses have to be taken out of service, Designline taking legal action against NJT (which is very likely to happen) is gonna prevent NJT from having enough buses to run their services. Even if Designline takes back the buses to completely revamp them that will have a big effect on service. Best case scenario is NJT removing the buses from service, leasing new/used buses or re-tanking the current CNGs IMMEDIATELY, and Designline and NJT duking it out in court without it having an effect on everyday service, or better yet Designline realizing their mistakes, taking back the buses and trying to do things better the next time around without involving the legal system. It's all in NJT senior management's hands now, problem is they never do anything right.

 

And the summer is just starting. I'm sure the heat will take it's toll and these already unreliable buses will start dropping like flies. It's too bad the bidding system in place sort of made this situation unavoidable. MCI may have been too confident and should have played ball harder to win NJT. The Route 9 riders wont have any of it for sure, and will go to Academy or even rail like you said. NJT may be stuck with these lemons much like the LIRR with the DE/DM's. In that case, worst case scenario, 13x routes take a big hit and we see reductions in service, particularly at rush hour. Not sure what other fueling areas in NJT are CNG, perhaps the Designlemons could be used on only the lightest routes that Howell has (67?). NJT needs to realize the problem before it gets out of control, but I fear they wont and we'll wind up with these Designlemons plauging Monmouth County for the forseeable future. NJT needs to listen to it's employees and it's riders and not shove this garbage down their throat. I'd send the 5 buses back, see if they can correct the problems, if not, then court time. Having all these problems is unacceptable for a new bus, its why the MTA rejected them, but I guess NJT's standards are lower. At least they need to have plans to lease buses once riders start jumping ship. Either way I'm glad I'm not down there!

[PinePower]

One other solution would be giving Howell the 559, which would use the Designlemons along with the 67, to keep the bread and butter (139). The EHT garage would send Howell some diesels.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

And the summer is just starting. I'm sure the heat will take it's toll and these already unreliable buses will start dropping like flies. It's too bad the bidding system in place sort of made this situation unavoidable. MCI may have been too confident and should have played ball harder to win NJT. The Route 9 riders wont have any of it for sure, and will go to Academy or even rail like you said. NJT may be stuck with these lemons much like the LIRR with the DE/DM's. In that case, worst case scenario, 13x routes take a big hit and we see reductions in service, particularly at rush hour. Not sure what other fueling areas in NJT are CNG, perhaps the Designlemons could be used on only the lightest routes that Howell has (67?). NJT needs to realize the problem before it gets out of control, but I fear they wont and we'll wind up with these Designlemons plauging Monmouth County for the forseeable future. NJT needs to listen to it's employees and it's riders and not shove this garbage down their throat. I'd send the 5 buses back, see if they can correct the problems, if not, then court time. Having all these problems is unacceptable for a new bus, its why the MTA rejected them, but I guess NJT's standards are lower. At least they need to have plans to lease buses once riders start jumping ship. Either way I'm glad I'm not down there!

 

One other solution would be giving Howell the 559, which would use the Designlemons along with the 67, to keep the bread and butter (139). The EHT garage would send Howell some diesels.

With 76 buses it's gonna be hard to keep them off every route Howell runs, if they get the 559 or whatever it doesn't make a difference. NJT made this mistake and once they realize it things are gonna get very interesting, and potentially bad, well they're already getting bad as more and more of these come in and more riders get pissed.

 

I tell you one thing, once every regular 139 rider knows that the Designlines are like they will probably refuse to ride. Not to mention all the cursing out/fingers/spitting the B/Os will get (and probably have gotten by now) from pissed off riders once they ride the DLs. They do not f**k around here. Guarantee you come a few months most of the DL runs will be nearly or completely empty, except on the like 64/67 where service is too infrequent to risk being late for work.

[PinePower]

With 76 buses it's gonna be hard to keep them off every route Howell runs, if they get the 559 or whatever it doesn't make a difference. NJT made this mistake and once they realize it things are gonna get very interesting, and potentially bad, well they're already getting bad as more and more of these come in and more riders get pissed.

 

I tell you one thing, once every regular 139 rider knows that the Designlines are like they will probably refuse to ride. Not to mention all the cursing out/fingers/spitting the B/Os will get (and probably have gotten by now) from pissed off riders once they ride the DLs. They do not f**k around here. Guarantee you come a few months most of the DL runs will be nearly or completely empty, except on the like 64/67 where service is too infrequent to risk being late for work.

 

Then NJT needs to try and keep these off the 139 runs as much as possible. I feel bad for the drivers, its not their fault, the 139 riders need to complain to NJT. 76 buses is alot for sure, kinda hard to keep them on only the light routes. Thing is Academy dont honor NJT tickets and vice versa, so someone who passes up the DL can't wait for an Academy, so they'll just get an Academy ticket knowing there's no Designlines there. Maybe Meadowlands can pick up some 139 runs to avoid running the Designlines on 9, dont know, its a real tough situation. I know new buses have bugs, but I've read from some of the comments on Youtube, there's a driver complaining about problems with leaks and the bus unable to back up. The door and wheel design is just stupid. How can NJT accept this junk is beyond me. It sure will be a shame to see Monmouth/Route 9 service deteriorate, considering how much of a success it has been. Granted I haven't ridden one yet, but they just have that Lemon look to them, much like LIRR's diesel locos. Maybe even moreso. I just hope this garbage stays off the 137 expresses to Toms River that I take occasionally! I can see these things being stuck in the middle of nowhere on the pkwy alot, esp if they go to TR. Sadly what I think will happen is 139 ridership wont ride this junk, so Howell will cut alot of runs. 

You seem to know alot about what's going on, should spread the word on NJT's Social Media...put pressure on them to send this junk back. 

[thephantom]

I believe the issue with the seating is clearly NJT's fault.

 

I noticed that even on the newest Nabi's, the 6000's that are running through Hoboken, that they also have vinyl seating instead of fabric seating. This is most likely a cost cutting procedure being implemented by NJT system wide.

 

Also, the other major issue is how bumpy the ride was. It seems for a brand new bus, the Design Lines should be giving a better ride. The package racks under the bus are used quite often. I am surprised NJT decided not to have them installed. I suppose another cost cutting measure by NJT.

[553 Bridgeton]

...funny stuff here.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Guys...this quick judgement on this bus needs to stop.

 

1. It's a bus. Buses will get bumpy on roads. Especially in NJ. Do you guys have any idea how many times I've been on an MCI and the ride has been bumpy? It's too much to count, and I don't have the time for it.

 

2. The luggage racks are barely even used on the MCI's. Most people just take their stuff on the bus with them. So the "no luggage compartment under the bus" thing isn't something to cry about.

 

3. Stop complaining about the damn seat covers please . They aren't even that bad. Hell, the ones in the newer NABIs have grown on me. I almost fell asleep on one. I doubt something so feeble is gonna drive people away from the 130's altogether. It sure as hell won't repel me, I've sat in those vinyl seats on the NABI's and on the train. If people can sit in those things on train and still use it, then they can do it with these too.

 

4. If these were to get sent back, I doubt service would be affected at all. Howell has a f**kload of buses they could send out to replace them.

 

5. As for the whole situation with the lights, the drivers at Howell keep the lights off for the most part. They only turn them on when the bus stops. Most drivers will turn them off and turn them on again when they get to the PABT, some will leave them on the whole trip, some will leave them on, then turn them off after leaving the last local stop (on the Route 9 corridor that's usually Old Bridge) and won't turn them back on till they hit PABT, and so on and so fourth.

 

Look I've said it already. I'm not gonna judge this bus until I ride it myself, which I may not get to do for some time since the damn things always hide from me when I'm riding the 130's.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Guys...this quick judgement on this bus needs to stop.

 

1. It's a bus. Buses will get bumpy on roads. Especially in NJ. Do you guys have any idea how many times I've been on an MCI and the ride has been bumpy? It's too much to count, and I don't have the time for it.

 

2. The luggage racks are barely even used on the MCI's. Most people just take their stuff on the bus with them. So the "no luggage compartment under the bus" thing isn't something to cry about.

 

3. Stop complaining about the damn seat covers please . They aren't even that bad. Hell, the ones in the newer NABIs have grown on me. I almost fell asleep on one. I doubt something so feeble is gonna drive people away from the 130's altogether. It sure as hell won't repel me, I've sat in those vinyl seats on the NABI's and on the train. If people can sit in those things on train and still use it, then they can do it with these too.

 

4. If these were to get sent back, I doubt service would be affected at all. Howell has a f**kload of buses they could send out to replace them.

 

5. As for the whole situation with the lights, the drivers at Howell keep the lights off for the most part. They only turn them on when the bus stops. Most drivers will turn them off and turn them on again when they get to the PABT, some will leave them on the whole trip, some will leave them on, then turn them off after leaving the last local stop (on the Route 9 corridor that's usually Old Bridge) and won't turn them back on till they hit PABT, and so on and so fourth.

 

Look I've said it already. I'm not gonna judge this bus until I ride it myself, which I may not get to do for some time since the damn things always hide from me when I'm riding the 130's.

1. The Howell MCIs are smooth as hell, and from what it sounds like from what these guys are saying these are not smooth. Roads in NJ are maintained much better than roads in NYC.

 

2. You must not ride the 139 very often. Got into the PABT on Monday, there were about 5-6 people who put bags under the bus and that's usually how many people will do that. And Monday was a holiday...

 

3. I can't speak for the seat covers since I haven't been on them myself, but they look extremely uncomfortable and that's what the riders are saying. Not to mention the lack of recline. The riders won't take it, especially further south like here in Manalapan and Freehold (I know you're in Old Bridge) where everyone's rolling in a Lexus and living in big McMansions.

 

4. Yeah, it would. Howell can't even entirely run the 139 during rush hour as it is now, during the heart of the rush every other bus is an Academy bus.

 

5. Lights are whatever. Some leave them on, some don't, I don't mind them on the MCIs. If they're really so bright that could be a problem, I know for a fact they are LED and not fluorescent lights like on the MCIs, honestly they make the bus look sleek and modern from the outside.

 

Riding the 139 for over an hour every day is already hell for these folks, and these buses aren't making anything better. Remember where we are and the general attitude of people around here too. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a 139 rider who knows how it works around here, not a foamer.

[DaTransitMan4608]

1. The Howell MCIs are smooth as hell, and from what it sounds like from what these guys are saying these are not smooth. Roads in NJ are maintained much better than roads in NYC.

 

2. You must not ride the 139 very often. Got into the PABT on Monday, there were about 5-6 people who put bags under the bus and that's usually how many people will do that. And Monday was a holiday...

 

3. I can't speak for the seat covers since I haven't been on them myself, but they look extremely uncomfortable and that's what the riders are saying. Not to mention the lack of recline. The riders won't take it, especially further south like here in Manalapan and Freehold (I know you're in Old Bridge) where everyone's rolling in a Lexus and living in big McMansions.

 

4. Yeah, it would. Howell can't even entirely run the 139 during rush hour as it is now, during the heart of the rush every other bus is an Academy bus.

 

5. Lights are whatever. Some leave them on, some don't, I don't mind them on the MCIs. If they're really so bright that could be a problem, I know for a fact they are LED and not fluorescent lights like on the MCIs, honestly they make the bus look sleek and modern from the outside.

 

Riding the 139 for over an hour every day is already hell for these folks, and these buses aren't making anything better. Remember where we are and the general attitude of people around here too. I'm speaking from the standpoint of a 139 rider who knows how it works around here, not a foamer.

1. Well yeah, but this guy who may have recently rode it probably just had bad luck with the buses. These are the first ones to be arrived and NJT is testing them out to see how passengers feel about them. And if they have any type of issues, then NJT probably isn't aware of the cons the bus has because no one has spoken up to them and said anything. It's not like the driver is handing every passenger a questionnaire on whether they like the DesignLines or not. The first 5 buses are the only ones here. Maybe 7206+ will be better if NJT has some feedback they could send to DesignLine, so they can figure out make the ECOCoach better. Yeah I know the roads are fairly smooth in NJ, but there are some roads that aren't.

 

2. That I'll admit, I haven't been on the 139 in a while actually. Maybe I'll try and go to NYC on the 139 this weekend. Anyway most of the times I've been on the 139, I haven't seen people use the underfloor compartments. That's probably because I'm the last stop on the 139 before NYC so I wouldn't know if someone put their luggage down there.

 

3. You think they look uncomfortable lol? I could easily fall asleep in one of those. Don't get me wrong, I wish NJT had put the fabric seat covers on instead. I kinda wish they did that with the newer NABIs too.

 

4. Doesn't Meadowlands do the 139 during rush hour during emergencies? You sure they wouldn't just fill in for the missing CNGs?

 

5. From some of the night shots of the DL's that Cait took, I do agree that they could be less bright. But yeah. They make the bus look pretty modernized.

 

This is the problem with some people around here. They can't be pleased with what they get. Yeah there are those who don't mind it at all, but those are the ones who are either pleased with what they have or don't like it and just suck it up and deal with it instead of paying again to ride Academy.

[Cait Sith]

5. From some of the night shots of the DL's that Cait took, I do agree that they could be less bright. But yeah. They make the bus look pretty modernized.

 

That's actually attributed from my camera settings. It's about as bright as the newer 2200 series MCIs if you want a better comparison.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

1. Well yeah, but this guy who may have recently rode it probably just had bad luck with the buses. These are the first ones to be arrived and NJT is testing them out to see how passengers feel about them. And if they have any type of issues, then NJT probably isn't aware of the cons the bus has because no one has spoken up to them and said anything. It's not like the driver is handing every passenger a questionnaire on whether they like the DesignLines or not. The first 5 buses are the only ones here. Maybe 7206+ will be better if NJT has some feedback they could send to DesignLine, so they can figure out make the ECOCoach better. Yeah I know the roads are fairly smooth in NJ, but there are some roads that aren't.

 

2. That I'll admit, I haven't been on the 139 in a while actually. Maybe I'll try and go to NYC on the 139 this weekend. Anyway most of the times I've been on the 139, I haven't seen people use the underfloor compartments. That's probably because I'm the last stop on the 139 before NYC so I wouldn't know if someone put their luggage down there.

 

3. You think they look uncomfortable lol? I could easily fall asleep in one of those. Don't get me wrong, I wish NJT had put the fabric seat covers on instead. I kinda wish they did that with the newer NABIs too.

 

4. Doesn't Meadowlands do the 139 during rush hour during emergencies? You sure they wouldn't just fill in for the missing CNGs?

 

5. From some of the night shots of the DL's that Cait took, I do agree that they could be less bright. But yeah. They make the bus look pretty modernized.

 

This is the problem with some people around here. They can't be pleased with what they get. Yeah there are those who don't mind it at all, but those are the ones who are either pleased with what they have or don't like it and just suck it up and deal with it instead of paying again to ride Academy.

1. Don't count on it. There's too many issues documented by people other than him already, including folks I know. Absolutely people have spoken up about it by now but NJT, as usual, doesn't give a flying f**k, at least not now. In the end they will likely end up with no choice but to respond to the complaints as necessary. Look at the Clever Devices on the 139, the public service announcements are disabled and that's most definitely due to customer complaints. Even if NJT decides to change specs on the future buses, the buses themselves still have issues that are Designline's fault, i.e. the door not opening unless the wheels are straight and the lack of under-bus storage.

 

2. They use them, trust me. No under-bus storage is a major problem.

 

3. None of our opinions really matters as far as those seats go since we haven't been on them, but the people who ride the 139 every day are (I know for a fact) complaining about the seats. Even if, say they were just as comfortable as the cloth seats, they still have no recline.

 

4. 76 buses is a lot of buses missing. Academy and Meadowlands would both probably not be able to fill in, there would definitely need to be more depots involved and even then service would still be affected. Even if they were able to provide all 139 runs using other buses, NJT would still be in a bad situation because they'd be paying Academy for all the additional runs and paying (fuel and B/O costs) to have buses sent down from other depots.

 

5. They do, no question about it. I actually like them, wouldn't mind seeing them on a MCI if they aren't so bright.

 

This is Jersey dude! The problem is you can't tell people to "suck it up" just because YOU like the buses (foamer logic, no offense to you), the fact is the buses are both a nightmare for customers and employees and in the end are likely to end up retired. If they are kept, people will refuse to take them and may turn to other options (drive/train/Academy), resulting in less money for NJT and reduced service on the 139. NJT won't tell people to "suck it up" and let themselves lose money just to please foamers, if they want passengers on the 139 these buses are gonna have to go or get severely modified to the point that Designline may not be able to modify them without revamping the entire model.

 

Anyway here is 7205 on Route 9 as seen from my car...

 

[Cait Sith]

 

This is Jersey dude! The problem is you can't tell people to "suck it up" just because YOU like the buses (foamer logic, no offense to you), the fact is the buses are both a nightmare for customers and employees and in the end are likely to end up retired. If they are kept, people will refuse to take them and may turn to other options (drive/train/Academy), resulting in less money for NJT and reduced service on the 139. NJT won't tell people to "suck it up" and let themselves lose money just to please foamers, if they want passengers on the 139 these buses are gonna have to go or get severely modified to the point that Designline may not be able to modify them without revamping the entire model.

 

 

While I somewhat agree with most of this. I don't see them returning or retiring these mostly because those tanks on the MCIs are up and they can't put out an emergency contract because it would take a lot longer for MCI to come up with buses out of the blue. They're pretty much stuck in their own rut. For every new bus regardless of their issues, they'll always get them fixed. Look at how long it took NYMTA to get those 2008 CTs into service and NJT got them into service in a flip of a switch. Those damn CTs were almost close to being sent back altogether!

[Orion VII 4 Life]

While I somewhat agree with most of this. I don't see them returning or retiring these mostly because those tanks on the MCIs are up and they can't put out an emergency contract because it would take a lot longer for MCI to come up with buses out of the blue. They're pretty much stuck in their own rut. For every new bus regardless of their issues, they'll always get them fixed. Look at how long it took NYMTA to get those 2008 CTs into service and NJT got them into service in a flip of a switch. Those damn CTs were almost close to being sent back altogether!

I was thinking more of an emergency contract for temporary used buses like the original 7101-7118. If it has to happen, it will happen. We gotta see how this plays out.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Ugh, one of them was coming up 9 just as I got to the stop at Union Hill, and what do you know, it was OOS. Might've been going to Old Bridge to start a run up there. Also got to speak with a few commuters, already angry because of a curtailed 139 from the Union Hill lot by the ticket machines, and no one had anything good to say about the Designlines, or NJT in general lol. They are (as expected) very angry about the seat covers, lack of recline, and the lack of under-bus storage, let's just say quite a few cusses were thrown at the "new buses" and NJT.

 

7202 is on the 67 to Toms River, on 7044 right now on the 139.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Ugh, one of them was coming up 9 just as I got to the stop at Union Hill, and what do you know, it was OOS. Might've been going to Old Bridge to start a run up there. Also got to speak with a few commuters, already angry because of a curtailed 139 from the Union Hill lot by the ticket machines, and no one had anything good to say about the Designlines, or NJT in general lol. They are (as expected) very angry about the seat covers, lack of recline, and the lack of under-bus storage, let's just say quite a few cusses were thrown at the "new buses" and NJT.

 

7202 is on the 67 to Toms River, on 7044 right now on the 139.

Well then they're just gonna have to deal with it. NJT has no money to pay for new MCI's (even with an emergency contract, they'd still have to cough up the dough)  Whining about a bus is pretty damn stupid (sounds like Chris Christie saying that) I know that sounds harsh, but which would they rather have? An old almost 15-year old bus (don't let the refurb fool you; those things are older than they look) that has a tank that's ready to go out the door any minute, seats less than '45 would, and no clever devices (volume up or not it still matters), or a brand spanking new bus that has different seat covers, lacks the ability to recline, and has no under carriage because let's face it, are you really that lazy to bring your friggen laptop on the bus that you need to put it underneath it where it'll get slid around and possibly broken? This is a blessing to people like that because:

 

1. They can catch up on work on the bus or watch a movie

2. It's better off with you on the bus because down there it could get broken. Those undercarriages aren't as secure as one may think.

 

If they hate the damn bus so much they need to speak up about it. Plus just because a select group of rides don't like it, doesn't mean everybody does. The day I saw 7202 on the bridge, the person I was in the car with thought the DesignLine looked pretty damn comfortable.

 

They need cut this constant bitching and complaining over some shit that's so feeble. "Oh boo-hoo the bus has train-styled seats I hate NJT" Seriously, NJT has already probably started looking around for replacements for the D4500's, if they go with DesignLine or MCI, chances are the bus is gonna spec'd to have those seats that is, if NJT takes the whine squad's complaints seriously and re-formats the seats to be fabric again. Seriously, it really pisses me off to see these spoiled ass passengers giving these drivers a hard time, and frankly I don't think it's all of the Howell riders that are acting like this. whenever I take the 139 out of Old Bridge, most of those people don't seem to have a single complaint in the world. I doubt the new seat style, lack of undercarriage, or reduced recline would even phase them at all.

 

But yeah you gotta listen to what Cait said, even if they were to reject the buses due to complaints there would still be a problem and that would be getting buses to fill in those slots used by the CNG's. Emergency contract doesn't mean the minute MCI signs the contract the buses will magically appear. Yeah they may already have D4500CT's built (and if NJT were to get those, I hope they'd go with the frameless windows because those things would look slick as hell sporting NJT colors) but then there's the part where they have to fit them to be CNG (since that's what NJT wants) and that could take while because they'd have to take apart the diesel tank, and swap it with a CNG.

 

Another thing I want to address here is the whole "Cummins ISL in a highway bus" issue. I don't see what the big deal about that is; The D4000H's have ISL's and I haven't heard any complaints about them.

[DJ MC]

Transitkid4608, people will always complain about transit no matter how bad or good it is. Heck even if it's perfect they will find someway to complain about it. 

[theaveragejoe]

Well then they're just gonna have to deal with it. NJT has no money to pay for new MCI's (even with an emergency contract, they'd still have to cough up the dough)  Whining about a bus is pretty damn stupid (sounds like Chris Christie saying that) I know that sounds harsh, but which would they rather have? An old almost 15-year old bus (don't let the refurb fool you; those things are older than they look) that has a tank that's ready to go out the door any minute, seats less than '45 would, and no clever devices (volume up or not it still matters), or a brand spanking new bus that has different seat covers, lacks the ability to recline, and has no under carriage because let's face it, are you really that lazy to bring your friggen laptop on the bus that you need to put it underneath it where it'll get slid around and possibly broken? This is a blessing to people like that because:

 

1. They can catch up on work on the bus or watch a movie

2. It's better off with you on the bus because down there it could get broken. Those undercarriages aren't as secure as one may think.

 

If they hate the damn bus so much they need to speak up about it. Plus just because a select group of rides don't like it, doesn't mean everybody does. The day I saw 7202 on the bridge, the person I was in the car with thought the DesignLine looked pretty damn comfortable.

 

They need cut this constant bitching and complaining over some shit that's so feeble. "Oh boo-hoo the bus has train-styled seats I hate NJT" Seriously, NJT has already probably started looking around for replacements for the D4500's, if they go with DesignLine or MCI, chances are the bus is gonna spec'd to have those seats that is, if NJT takes the whine squad's complaints seriously and re-formats the seats to be fabric again. Seriously, it really pisses me off to see these spoiled ass passengers giving these drivers a hard time, and frankly I don't think it's all of the Howell riders that are acting like this. whenever I take the 139 out of Old Bridge, most of those people don't seem to have a single complaint in the world. I doubt the new seat style, lack of undercarriage, or reduced recline would even phase them at all.

 

But yeah you gotta listen to what Cait said, even if they were to reject the buses due to complaints there would still be a problem and that would be getting buses to fill in those slots used by the CNG's. Emergency contract doesn't mean the minute MCI signs the contract the buses will magically appear. Yeah they may already have D4500CT's built (and if NJT were to get those, I hope they'd go with the frameless windows because those things would look slick as hell sporting NJT colors) but then there's the part where they have to fit them to be CNG (since that's what NJT wants) and that could take while because they'd have to take apart the diesel tank, and swap it with a CNG.

 

Another thing I want to address here is the whole "Cummins ISL in a highway bus" issue. I don't see what the big deal about that is; The D4000H's have ISL's and I haven't heard any complaints about them.

 

 

Not only that it would cost even more to do that. Also why are we feeding this troll?

 

Transitkid4608, people will always complain about transit no matter how bad or good it is. Heck even if it's perfect they will find someway to complain about it. 

 

Thats why we have to stop feeding the troll! 

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Going full blown rant mode here folks, I just don't give a damn anymore. 

 

Well then they're just gonna have to deal with it. NJT has no money to pay for new MCI's (even with an emergency contract, they'd still have to cough up the dough)  Whining about a bus is pretty damn stupid (sounds like Chris Christie saying that) I know that sounds harsh, but which would they rather have? An old almost 15-year old bus (don't let the refurb fool you; those things are older than they look) that has a tank that's ready to go out the door any minute, seats less than '45 would, and no clever devices (volume up or not it still matters), or a brand spanking new bus that has different seat covers, lacks the ability to recline, and has no under carriage because let's face it, are you really that lazy to bring your friggen laptop on the bus that you need to put it underneath it where it'll get slid around and possibly broken? This is a blessing to people like that because:

 

1. They can catch up on work on the bus or watch a movie

2. It's better off with you on the bus because down there it could get broken. Those undercarriages aren't as secure as one may think.

 

If they hate the damn bus so much they need to speak up about it. Plus just because a select group of rides don't like it, doesn't mean everybody does. The day I saw 7202 on the bridge, the person I was in the car with thought the DesignLine looked pretty damn comfortable.

 

They need cut this constant bitching and complaining over some shit that's so feeble. "Oh boo-hoo the bus has train-styled seats I hate NJT" Seriously, NJT has already probably started looking around for replacements for the D4500's, if they go with DesignLine or MCI, chances are the bus is gonna spec'd to have those seats that is, if NJT takes the whine squad's complaints seriously and re-formats the seats to be fabric again. Seriously, it really pisses me off to see these spoiled ass passengers giving these drivers a hard time, and frankly I don't think it's all of the Howell riders that are acting like this. whenever I take the 139 out of Old Bridge, most of those people don't seem to have a single complaint in the world. I doubt the new seat style, lack of undercarriage, or reduced recline would even phase them at all.

 

But yeah you gotta listen to what Cait said, even if they were to reject the buses due to complaints there would still be a problem and that would be getting buses to fill in those slots used by the CNG's. Emergency contract doesn't mean the minute MCI signs the contract the buses will magically appear. Yeah they may already have D4500CT's built (and if NJT were to get those, I hope they'd go with the frameless windows because those things would look slick as hell sporting NJT colors) but then there's the part where they have to fit them to be CNG (since that's what NJT wants) and that could take while because they'd have to take apart the diesel tank, and swap it with a CNG.

 

Another thing I want to address here is the whole "Cummins ISL in a highway bus" issue. I don't see what the big deal about that is; The D4000H's have ISL's and I haven't heard any complaints about them.

Paying $325+ a month for commuting and then getting treated like shit by NJT is NOT OK. You make me wonder if you actually live here, or if you're just someone that doesn't give a damn what the real people who matter (the everyday riders and workers) think of the buses as long as "Designline's back in the game woohoo". Did I ever say keep the MCI CNGs? No, don't put words in my mouth. I said that these buses are not the ideal for our commuters or the people who operate and work on them. The fact is, these buses are a MAJOR DOWNGRADE from what was already in place, and that will not sit well with the riders who will STOP USING NJT Bus and instead take Academy or NJT Rail. People on the 139 don't like change, and they've been putting their sh*t under the bus and comfortably reclining for years now. Whether you use the under-bus storage, recline your seat, or whatever, that's your problem, but majority rules. Not to mention the mechanical problems they are having. And did I ever blame those seat problems on Designline? That is 100% NJT's fault and would absolutely have happened if the order went to MCI. The recline issue, probably not.

 

The Cummins ISL G is unavoidable in a CNG bus/coach of any kind. Never said it wasn't. The issue I (and the Howell crew) have with the drivetrain is the ZF Ecolife, which is already proving troublesome.

 

And again with the words in my mouth on the emergency contract. Obviously an emergency contract would likely be for used buses similar to the original 7101-7118 while NJT and Designline work things out, and a new order is prepared/awarded. We would probably not see new MCI CNGs for the next few years.

 

Designline will have to basically redo the structure of the bus if they want it to succeed, especially around here, and chances are they'll have a chance to do that next time around with another TA.

 

Transitkid4608, people will always complain about transit no matter how bad or good it is. Heck even if it's perfect they will find someway to complain about it. 

Agreed. Except in this situation, people are being severely DOWNGRADED from what they had before, and the way folks around here are, it's not gonna sit right.

 

Not only that it would cost even more to do that. Also why are we feeding this troll?

 

Thats why we have to stop feeding the troll! 

Excuse me, I'm a what now? You live in Toronto Canada buddy, and I live in beautiful Manalapan, NJ. Talk to me when you live out here, pay $325 a month just to ride a bus to work every day, and on top of that be subject to sometimes major delays and curtailed runs. You're basically harassing me now, calling me a troll because I'm coming from a COMMUTER's standpoint and not a FOAMER's.

 

And PS, if Designline is willing to do whatever they can to fix the issues on the buses, I would have absolutely no problem with them. Seems to me they just didn't think too hard when they first designed the bus, but as Cait and others said every new bus has its issues. The only question now is what is Designline willing and able to fix/redesign.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Going full blown rant mode here folks, I just don't give a damn anymore. 

 

Paying $325+ a month for commuting and then getting treated like shit by NJT is NOT OK. You make me wonder if you actually live here, or if you're just someone that doesn't give a damn what the real people who matter (the everyday riders and workers) think of the buses as long as "Designline's back in the game woohoo". Did I ever say keep the MCI CNGs? No, don't put words in my mouth. I said that these buses are not the ideal for our commuters or the people who operate and work on them. The fact is, these buses are a MAJOR DOWNGRADE from what was already in place, and that will not sit well with the riders who will STOP USING NJT Bus and instead take Academy or NJT Rail. People on the 139 don't like change, and they've been putting their sh*t under the bus and comfortably reclining for years now. Whether you use the under-bus storage, recline your seat, or whatever, that's your problem, but majority rules. Not to mention the mechanical problems they are having. And did I ever blame those seat problems on Designline? That is 100% NJT's fault and would absolutely have happened if the order went to MCI. The recline issue, probably not.

 

The Cummins ISL G is unavoidable in a CNG bus/coach of any kind. Never said it wasn't. The issue I (and the Howell crew) have with the drivetrain is the ZF Ecolife, which is already proving troublesome.

 

And again with the words in my mouth on the emergency contract. Obviously an emergency contract would likely be for used buses similar to the original 7101-7118 while NJT and Designline work things out, and a new order is prepared/awarded. We would probably not see new MCI CNGs for the next few years.

 

Designline will have to basically redo the structure of the bus if they want it to succeed, especially around here, and chances are they'll have a chance to do that next time around with another TA.

 

Agreed. Except in this situation, people are being severely DOWNGRADED from what they had before, and the way folks around here are, it's not gonna sit right.

 

Excuse me, I'm a what now? You live in Toronto Canada buddy, and I live in beautiful Manalapan, NJ. Talk to me when you live out here, pay $325 a month just to ride a bus to work every day, and on top of that be subject to sometimes major delays and curtailed runs. You're basically harassing me now, calling me a troll because I'm coming from a COMMUTER's standpoint and not a FOAMER's.

 

And PS, if Designline is willing to do whatever they can to fix the issues on the buses, I would have absolutely no problem with them. Seems to me they just didn't think too hard when they first designed the bus, but as Cait and others said every new bus has its issues. The only question now is what is Designline willing and able to fix/redesign.

Look dude I'm not against you here I'm just saying these passengers need to stop their senseless belly-aching, I mean some of the stuff they complain about is just downright feeble. The lack of undercarriage I can understand now, some people don't want to lug all that shit on the bus. But the f---ing seat covers? I mean it's like these people have never set foot on the train. I never intended to put any words in your mouth, I was just making a comparison. Would MCI's be a good replacement? Yeah I'd love to see some D4500CT CNG's out there, but NJT didn't have the funds to buy them so they had to choose the cheaper option. Oh I know how the people down here can be trust me, and from the stories you've told about how they behave on the bus, you can tell that their spoiled. There's no question to that fact.

But I don't think that the ECOCoach's lack of seat recline & undercompartment is gonna be enough to stop those people from taking NJ Transit altogether. Some of these people really rely on NJT even if they don't like the service(s) being provided.

 

What's wrong with the ZF Ecolife?

 

If NJT gets an emergency contract, where are they gonna get the buses to fill in? I don't think MTA has any extra MCIs they would be able to spare were this to happen. Shoot NJT would probably have to borrow some D4505's from CUSA or Peter Pan were something like that to happen. 

 

Maybe DL can improve on this bus. I mean only 5 of them are on property so far. Whose to say NJT isn't only running a few of them just to see how folks react to them. If you don't like some of the features on the bus, you should tell NJT. That way they can tell DesignLine what they can improve with the model.  As for the seats, just tell NJT you don't like the vinyl ones and prefer the fabric ones back.