DesignLine Commuter Coach Discussion

[RailBus63]

Spotted 7205 on the 68 yesterday morning passing the Newport PATH station inbound.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Well this week's goal is to find & ride a DesignLine. Gonna try and go down to Freehold one day this week and just wait there until one shows up. Just tested MyBusNow from my iPhone's web browser and it works, so I (hopefully) shouldn't have a tough time finding one.

 

Wish me luck!

[Guest timo234]

those buses look so cool are they on the 129

[DaTransitMan4608]

those buses look so cool are they on the 129

No they are only on the 63,64,67,68,128,130s, 307, & 308.

[w8Hou]

NJ Transit should be little more concern what has happen at DesignLine:

 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/readflat.asp?Id=280618

[Juan833Blue]

Saw #7213 on the 128 a little while ago; got a couple of pics and a video clip too!!!

 

Photo of #7213:

[Orion VII 4 Life]

NJ Transit should be little more concern what has happen at DesignLine:

 

http://www.subchat.com/buschat/readflat.asp?Id=280618

Oh boy...

 

I wonder if NJT or any other agencies they have contracts with can take action against them for doing this in the middle of a build...

 

Saw #7213 on the 128 a little while ago; got a couple of pics and a video clip too!!!

Did see a few come down 9 in the morning. Can't believe we're actually up to 7213... and we're still months late and have to get all the way to 7276. 

[PinePower]

Oh boy...

 

I wonder if NJT or any other agencies they have contracts with can take action against them for doing this in the middle of a build...

 

 

Did see a few come down 9 in the morning. Can't believe we're actually up to 7213... and we're still months late and have to get all the way to 7276. 

 

Should be reason enough to get out of the contract and place an order with MCI or another company. This is MCI's chance, they can at least buy out the rest of the contract. So NJT only has 13 Designlemons...can't say I didn't see this coming. I lost a large chunk of respect for NJ Transit when they allowed this order to proceed knowing the problems with this bus model and company. I don't know how much longer they can keep the old CNG MCI's on the road. I think we're gonna see the return of leased buses at Howell....

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Should be reason enough to get out of the contract and place an order with MCI or another company. This is MCI's chance, they can at least buy out the rest of the contract. So NJT only has 13 Designlemons...can't say I didn't see this coming. I lost a large chunk of respect for NJ Transit when they allowed this order to proceed knowing the problems with this bus model and company. I don't know how much longer they can keep the old CNG MCI's on the road. I think we're gonna see the return of leased buses at Howell....

Giving MCI the contract will likely have to involve a completely new RFP and legal action against DesignLine resulting in a court order canceling the contract. In the meantime, the return of leased buses is likely, and the 84 bus order (bids due Friday) either A. not going to Designline period or B. should Designline win that order as well they would be disqualified and the order cancelled.

[go25]

well this will end real ugly for designline. Pending lawsuits, delayed deliveries... yup DesignLine will do the lone walk off the pier. Hopefully MCI will make a return to the CNG business in NJT, not to mention whats gonna happen with the the rest of the regular MCIs

 

personally i never got to see the their bus back in December, might get lucky this upcoming month

[Orion VII 4 Life]

well this will end real ugly for designline. Pending lawsuits, delayed deliveries... yup DesignLine will do the lone walk off the pier. Hopefully MCI will make a return to the CNG business in NJT, not to mention whats gonna happen with the the rest of the regular MCIs

 

personally i never got to see the their bus back in December, might get lucky this upcoming month

NJT has had a hell of a lot of patience with Designline (the order is months late and only 13 or so delivered) and has let customer complaints about the buses go right down the drain, not even telling Designline to improve them or face the consequences. It really makes me wonder if NJT gives a damn about the Route 9 commuters who pay over $300 a month for a ride through heavy traffic on an uncomfortable, often late bus. Hate to say it but plenty of commuters are pissed as it is, even without these buses. I'm glad I don't have to commute every day on them, 1-2 times a week is enough.

 

But back to these buses, enough is enough already. Designline has been screwing over the riders ever since they got the contract, and NJT should exercise their right to be DONE with them! 

[DaTransitMan4608]

I gotta admit the NABI's came so much faster than the DL's.

 

You're right on the part that NJT should listen to their customers and use their feedback to improve the buses, but you gotta remember NJT is on a budget. So they chose the lowest bidder by law. Would I have loved for them to go with MCI for the replacement of the CNG's? Oh you bet.

 

To be honest, I don't think the seats look that uncomfortable. They look like they've got some cushion on em'. At least that's what it looked like it when I saw it Freehold Center.

[Cait Sith]

NJT has had a hell of a lot of patience with Designline (the order is months late and only 13 or so delivered) and has let customer complaints about the buses go right down the drain, not even telling Designline to improve them or face the consequences. It really makes me wonder if NJT gives a damn about the Route 9 commuters who pay over $300 a month for a ride through heavy traffic on an uncomfortable, often late bus. Hate to say it but plenty of commuters are pissed as it is, even without these buses. I'm glad I don't have to commute every day on them, 1-2 times a week is enough.

 

But back to these buses, enough is enough already. Designline has been screwing over the riders ever since they got the contract, and NJT should exercise their right to be DONE with them! 

 

Lets be real for a minute, if New Jersey Transit didn't know what they were getting themselves into with Designline, they probably would have made the same decision the MTA made with the Express Bus Order.

 

Just for the record, there have been customer complaints about every single thing in every single bus New Jersey Transit has ever owned and operated, like the Cummins engines in the RTSs making the interior hot and they still continue to do it, the Neoplans with their ride quality,  even with the MCIs, folks in the beginning bitched about the Jake Brakes being loud and disruptive and some folks still do it! Did they act all "lolletsgetridofthesedamnedthings"? No!

 

And while things have ironed themselves out, folks still bitch about everything. The only reasonable complaint I've heard was the NABIs and the lack of interior space, which I wholeheartedly agree with after suffering in one on the 111.

 

And it's not Designline who's screwing over customers when its New Jersey Transit spec'ing the buses the way they want them to be.....lets get that right....customer(New Jersey Transit) specifications! No bus waltz's into a TA like "herpderpthisiswhatIhaveforyouguys" without it being checked out and spec'd by the customer unless it's a demo.

 

As for this whole thing, I can kinda see them leaving Designline, but at the same time, I don't see them leaving Designline either because it's a little late to put out an emergency contract for new buses. But we got 10 days and about 60 or so buses left.

 

I wonder if NJT falls under that category of receiving free buses after failure to meet with the deadline.

 

 

I gotta admit the NABI's came so much faster than the DL's.

 

You're right on the part that NJT should listen to their customers and use their feedback to improve the buses, but you gotta remember NJT is on a budget. So they chose the lowest bidder by law. Would I have loved for them to go with MCI for the replacement of the CNG's? Oh you bet.

 

To be honest, I don't think the seats look that uncomfortable. They look like they've got some cushion on em'. At least that's what it looked like it when I saw it Freehold Center.

 

The first 150 or so NABIs were rushed and a good number of them were dropping like flies during the first 2-3 weeks of service. Also, NABI has more experience.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Lets be real for a minute, if New Jersey Transit didn't know what they were getting themselves into with Designline, they probably would have made the same decision the MTA made with the Express Bus Order.

 

Just for the record, there have been customer complaints about every single thing in every single bus New Jersey Transit has ever owned and operated, like the Cummins engines in the RTSs making the interior hot and they still continue to do it, the Neoplans with their ride quality,  even with the MCIs, folks in the beginning bitched about the Jake Brakes being loud and disruptive and some folks still do it! Did they act all "lolletsgetridofthesedamnedthings"? No!

 

And while things have ironed themselves out, folks still bitch about everything. The only reasonable complaint I've heard was the NABIs and the lack of interior space, which I wholeheartedly agree with after suffering in one on the 111.

 

And it's not Designline who's screwing over customers when its New Jersey Transit spec'ing the buses the way they want them to be.....lets get that right....customer(New Jersey Transit) specifications! No bus waltz's into a TA like "herpderpthisiswhatIhaveforyouguys" without it being checked out and spec'd by the customer unless it's a demo.

 

As for this whole thing, I can kinda see them leaving Designline, but at the same time, I don't see them leaving Designline either because it's a little late to put out an emergency contract for new buses. But we got 10 days and about 60 or so buses left.

 

I wonder if NJT falls under that category of receiving free buses after failure to meet with the deadline.

MTA has a quality control standard (New Bus Qualification Program), and it is specified in every RFP put out that the bus must be able to pass or has passed the NBQP. Whereas at NJT, it's lowest bidder wins.

 

Of course the seats are NJT's fault, but that's about it. Also remember who we're dealing with. Every person (with the exception of a few Downtown Freehold residents using the buses locally to get to work) on the Route 9 buses owns a car, most using park and rides, and they will be more than happy to use them or Academy or the train if the buses piss them off enough. Less passengers means less revenue, so NJT really has to address these guys' complaints or they could lose big. This isn't North Jersey where many people use buses as their only way around. 

 

If they cancel the order, they would likely bar Designline from future orders, order the 84 new buses from MCI, and make an emergency order for used MCIs like the original 7101-7118 while things are sorted out with Designline and a bid for new buses is put out/awarded. As for the free buses, I guess it would depend on the terms of the contract, but they definitely deserve them and more.

[PinePower]

I have to agree with Orion VII here it's clear NJT has made a mistake. Remember the MTA looked at DesignLine and saw the problems and didn't order any buses from them. But NJT obviously must have foreseen the problems and just didn't care. Yes by law they have to accept the lowest bid, but once the bus is delivered and it's clear it has problems, NJT can reject the order. They Didn't. It's clear more than ever that NJ Transit (and perhaps the entire state of New Jersey) has little regard for mass transit. There hasn't been improvement in NJ Transit service in years. All NJ does is spend money on roads. Then I see the quality of NJ Transit going in the toilet with this bus order, the wacko drivers they are hiring and I have to wonder, what the future holds for people over there. NJT certainly could care less about the Route 9 riders, despite the high fares. They WILL lose riders to Academy period. Then there's also Academy using NJ owned buses on private charter, which is highly illegal. Then you have the pathetic local bus service in many areas around Monmouth and Ocean, the picture does not look good for transit. Remember NJT also parking their newest trains in a flood zone...Yeah I think is much better in alot of regards, even NICE is. And Suffolk Transit has put more into local bus service than many counties in NJ (such as Monmouth & Ocean). Bottom line is you have a company in trouble. The workers aren't in a state of good morale. A poor product will almost always result. If NJT proceeds with the DesignLine order, if they eventually do all come, except daily breakdowns and lost riders going to Academy...or even their cars which will do wonders for the already traffic clogged route 9. Not that NJ cares, just keep expanding the parkway and the turnpike, while NJT has to continue to share only 2 tunnels to Penn with Amtrak. Such a shame such beautiful country there but NJ loves their cars more than LI! It's almost as if this whole DesignLike order is to DRIVE AWAY RIDERS (no pun intended) so they can cut more service.   I've seen the videos and those buses sound like they ride worse than a Gillig Phantom, man even the 5000s at ST have a quieter ride! I dont see how the Route 9 commuters do it everyday, at least they used to have a comfortable ride, now they are riding a buckboard that's almost certain to breakdown in the almost daily traffic into PABT which itself is over capacity with no plans for expansion, NJ Transit is certainly NOT the way to go these days. I know I'm being hard on them but they used to be so much better, what a fall from grace...

[qjtransitmaster]

I have to agree with Orion VII here it's clear NJT has made a mistake. Remember the MTA looked at DesignLine and saw the problems and didn't order any buses from them. But NJT obviously must have foreseen the problems and just didn't care. Yes by law they have to accept the lowest bid, but once the bus is delivered and it's clear it has problems, NJT can reject the order. They Didn't. It's clear more than ever that NJ Transit (and perhaps the entire state of New Jersey) has little regard for mass transit. There hasn't been improvement in NJ Transit service in years. All NJ does is spend money on roads. Then I see the quality of NJ Transit going in the toilet with this bus order, the wacko drivers they are hiring and I have to wonder, what the future holds for people over there. NJT certainly could care less about the Route 9 riders, despite the high fares. They WILL lose riders to Academy period. Then there's also Academy using NJ owned buses on private charter, which is highly illegal. Then you have the pathetic local bus service in many areas around Monmouth and Ocean, the picture does not look good for transit. Remember NJT also parking their newest trains in a flood zone...Yeah I think is much better in alot of regards, even NICE is. And Suffolk Transit has put more into local bus service than many counties in NJ (such as Monmouth & Ocean). Bottom line is you have a company in trouble. The workers aren't in a state of good morale. A poor product will almost always result. If NJT proceeds with the DesignLine order, if they eventually do all come, except daily breakdowns and lost riders going to Academy...or even their cars which will do wonders for the already traffic clogged route 9. Not that NJ cares, just keep expanding the parkway and the turnpike, while NJT has to continue to share only 2 tunnels to Penn with Amtrak. Such a shame such beautiful country there but NJ loves their cars more than LI! It's almost as if this whole DesignLike order is to DRIVE AWAY RIDERS (no pun intended) so they can cut more service.   I've seen the videos and those buses sound like they ride worse than a Gillig Phantom, man even the 5000s at ST have a quieter ride! I dont see how the Route 9 commuters do it everyday, at least they used to have a comfortable ride, now they are riding a buckboard that's almost certain to breakdown in the almost daily traffic into PABT which itself is over capacity with no plans for expansion, NJ Transit is certainly NOT the way to go these days. I know I'm being hard on them but they used to be so much better, what a fall from grace...

why would NJT drive away riders from one of it's most profitable lines? Even NJT spokesperson told me 139 is profitable.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

why would NJT drive away riders from one of it's most profitable lines? Even NJT spokesperson told me 139 is profitable.

Good question...

[DaTransitMan4608]

Lets be real for a minute, if New Jersey Transit didn't know what they were getting themselves into with Designline, they probably would have made the same decision the MTA made with the Express Bus Order.

 

Just for the record, there have been customer complaints about every single thing in every single bus New Jersey Transit has ever owned and operated, like the Cummins engines in the RTSs making the interior hot and they still continue to do it, the Neoplans with their ride quality, even with the MCIs, folks in the beginning bitched about the Jake Brakes being loud and disruptive and some folks still do it! Did they act all "lolletsgetridofthesedamnedthings"? No!

 

And while things have ironed themselves out, folks still bitch about everything. The only reasonable complaint I've heard was the NABIs and the lack of interior space, which I wholeheartedly agree with after suffering in one on the 111.

 

And it's not Designline who's screwing over customers when its New Jersey Transit spec'ing the buses the way they want them to be.....lets get that right....customer(New Jersey Transit) specifications! No bus waltz's into a TA like "herpderpthisiswhatIhaveforyouguys" without it being checked out and spec'd by the customer unless it's a demo.

 

As for this whole thing, I can kinda see them leaving Designline, but at the same time, I don't see them leaving Designline either because it's a little late to put out an emergency contract for new buses. But we got 10 days and about 60 or so buses left.

 

If NJT has been in fact listening to their riders, we could get MCIs as the extra 84 buses. They did receive the money from the Feds for these buses so hopefully that means D4500CTs, but like I've already said, this is NJT, we never expected em' to get DesignLines or NABIs. We could just as well end up with Transit-spec'd J4500s.

[BZGuy]

If NJT has been in fact listening to their riders, we could get MCIs as the extra 84 buses. They did receive the money from the Feds for these buses so hopefully that means D4500CTs, but like I've already said, this is NJT, we never expected em' to get DesignLines or NABIs. We could just as well end up with Transit-spec'd J4500s.

The Js don't fit upstairs.

[Cait Sith]

If NJT has been in fact listening to their riders, we could get MCIs as the extra 84 buses. 

Imagine if that logic was used elsewhere....TA's all over the U.S would be in a deeper financial blackhole than they are already in all because of what "the riders" want....fortunately, it's not.

 

Folks over here wanted 300 new MCIs....but we're getting 300 Prevosts!

 

Let's face it, TAs have NEVER listened to their riders when it comes to BUS orders because the majority of riders do NOT know how procedures work!

[DaTransitMan4608]

Imagine if that logic was used elsewhere....TA's all over the U.S would be in a deeper financial blackhole than they are already in all because of what "the riders" want....fortunately, it's not.

 

Folks over here wanted 300 new MCIs....but we're getting 300 Prevosts!

 

Let's face it, TAs have NEVER listened to their riders when it comes to BUS orders because the majority of riders do NOT know how procedures work!

If only the Howell riders knew that...

[RailBus63]

Imagine if that logic was used elsewhere....TA's all over the U.S would be in a deeper financial blackhole than they are already in all because of what "the riders" want....fortunately, it's not.

 

Folks over here wanted 300 new MCIs....but we're getting 300 Prevosts!

 

Let's face it, TAs have NEVER listened to their riders when it comes to BUS orders because the majority of riders do NOT know how procedures work!

 

Relatively speaking - if the bus operates on schedule, is not too crowded, and the climate-control system works, the average rider doesn't care what the bus is.  NJT could go back to suburban transit buses (what most of the New Jersey express routes ran for decades) and while there would be some grumbling most passengers wouldn't care as long as they were transported on-time in a comfortable manner.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Relatively speaking - if the bus operates on schedule, is not too crowded, and the climate-control system works, the average rider doesn't care what the bus is.  NJT could go back to suburban transit buses (what most of the New Jersey express routes ran for decades) and while there would be some grumbling most passengers wouldn't care as long as they were transported on-time in a comfortable manner.

You've never been to Route 9 have you...

[DaTransitMan4608]

You've never been to Route 9 have you...

Well I'll give him the lowdown......

 

Relatively speaking - if the bus operates on schedule, is not too crowded, and the climate-control system works, the average rider doesn't care what the bus is.  NJT could go back to suburban transit buses (what most of the New Jersey express routes ran for decades) and while there would be some grumbling most passengers wouldn't care as long as they were transported on-time in a comfortable manner.

We (Orion and I, unless there's anyone else on here who lives along the US-9 corridor) live in the region in NJ where people will give you shit for basically anything when it comes to public transit that is if you are a bus driver. Some areas aren't like that however, like the 79 corridor passengers (131 & 135). Those passengers are pretty laid back when it comes to their commutes. But Route 9.....man that is WHOLE 'nother story. Those passengers will curse you out because you sat in their alleged seat. They take their public transit extremely seriously. And they don't like the new DesignLine buses we've recently acquired. 

 

As for the bold part, that's me (and basically most of the Old Bridge residents who use the bus, but yeah we've got our share of d-bags here too). As long as I get where I need to be on time, not sweating like a pig (or freezing my ass off in the winter), and the bus has an available seat for me, it's all good. You won't here a complaint from me.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

I saw #7211 at 43rd Street & 10th Avenue earlier today. It was out of service. I also saw #7205 around the area too.