The Schoolcar Experience

[MTA Traveler]

Just like 7-Up never have never will! 6'4 frame and long legs helps....

 

RTO - i'm 6'2'' and I seriously thinking about being a Train Operator.  How comfortable is the cab seating for the long legged people?

[RTOMan]

RTO - i'm 6'2'' and I seriously thinking about being a Train Operator.  How comfortable is the cab seating for the long legged people?

 

Have you taken the Test? Are you on the List?

[MTA Traveler]

I'll have to wait for the next exam which will be in a few years. I'm in line to get into the Electronic Equipment of Revenue Equipment department when the list is called.  Hell I'll take a provisional position in either departments right now.  The T/O Open Competivie may not be available down the road but I've learned that you have to keep your options open.

.

[bc0v9g9]

Yesterday class TA-28 took a R-62 from VC to Livonia and back. TSS' Richardson and Taylor said as a whole we operated very well. I won't lie I was bit nervous but TSS Taylor was on the money calling all the switches and grade time signals... now onto R142/R142a.

[mediccjh]

Nice!!! Funny, i was just thinking about opto. How do you get to do OPTO training?? I would like to be opto qualified...gives me a little more flexibility!

 

I have no feckin' clue. They called me on Friday, and told me I was in the class on Monday. It's been boring. We took a 5-car R160 today down the road from JYD to WTC.

 

Tomorrow we're taking over the Franklin Ave Shuttle to practice. 

[mediccjh]

With all the rain we've had lately it came to mind that although I don't know how training goes in RTO, wether you spend much time in the yards or on the road, we can all learn from each other.

 

In time you'll all be stepping on the 3 rd rail protection boards while climbing on or off your trains. Some boards are fiber glass some are wood.

 

The fiber glass ones are like ice when wet from rain our any source of water. The woods ones in the summer secrete creosote which is also very slippery. Make sure your footing is secure when stepping onto one. Also, try not to step to close to the metal bracket holding the boards up. In the yards and in all wet areas those brackets are grounded out meaning you could get a good shock off one if your physically touching one for some reason and brush the contact (3rd) rail. Eg: you drop something before climbing up onto your train and place your hand on one while picking something up.

 

LIKE HELL YOU SAY!!

 

You NEVER, NEVER, EVER step on the third rail protection board!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

RTO - i'm 6'2'' and I seriously thinking about being a Train Operator.  How comfortable is the cab seating for the long legged people?

 

Depends on the cab. I'm 6'2". I actually am comfortable operating the R160 standing up. The R46, if the seat is bolted, can be a little tight.

[PATCOman]

The protection board protects the third rail, not you!

[dp142]

The protection board offers no protection for the 3rd rail.

 

It is for the protection of the employees and other personal who may have to enter the track bed such as Police, Fire or EMS as we'll as passengers who may fall to the Track.

 

The boards are actually a nuisance within your department (RTO). Many a time a current collector (Train shoe) will get on top of a board and cause the train to stall or if the 3rd rail is out of gauge with the running rails the the tip of the shoe will hit the bracket knocking it down for a great length c causing a pile up of board on the underside of the train.

 

If you never step onto a board in your time with Transit then good for you! What i'm saying is these are the realities that you won't learn in the class room. Not everyone is nice and long legged.

Every department can learn from another. It's about going home the same way you came in.

 

Now, maybe one of you Train Operators can explain to me why you find it necessary to sound your horn right on top of us as you pass us? The horns are extremely loud and hurt our ears. Also, even though the rule book states when stopped by a flagman to sound your horn every 2 minutes as a reminder why do you? We see you. We know your there. The flagman will let you go when it's safe to do so. Again, all it does is damage our hearing.

[RTOPRO]

Well there are a number of things said that I disagree with but I won't get into everything and will try to keep this brief.

 

I don't know what the protection board is there to protect but it's definitely not us and we are all advised to step over the third rail. I've seen many of people of very short stature follow that protocol to the letter short legs and all. Most boards are not well maintained and one break can lead to a loss of life.

 

As for flagging rules you just answered your own question. "Also, even though the rule book states when stopped by a flagman to sound your horn every 2 minutes as a reminder why do you?"

 

Because the rule book states it must be done. The better question to ask is why does the rule book state this? Because someone lost their life and while the fault may be debatable the rule was put in place as a direct result. Not only that what you may not understand is that Train Operators have superiors who watch for compliance of these very rules and regulations. Not to mention the train is equipped with an event recorder and to not take an action is basically telling the train to snitch about the obvious.

 

Flagging rules are written to protect the workers on the tracks not the train operators. So non-compliance results in an attempt to creat equally harsh penalties. The harshest penalty for a person on the road bed death. For a T/O involved in an incident resulting in a death can mean a lost of job and for some that is just as good as death.

[dp142]

I've never seen or heard of anyone dying from the horn not being sounded while stopped by a Flagman or as you go they a work location where we are all cleared up amass you sound it on top of us.

 

As fast as event recorders I guess thats on newer trains and as I've stated before I know very little about the train cars themselves.

[dp142]

I've never seen or heard of anyone dying from the horn not being sounded while STOPPED by a Flagman or as you go thru a work location where we are all CLEARED UP and sound it on top of us.

 

As fast as event recorders I guess thats on newer trains and as I've stated before I know very little about the train cars themselves.

 

If losing a "job" is the same as death then youv'e got bigger problems.

 

I'm sorry you missed the whole point of my post regarding the boards and stepping on them.

Edited June 19, 2013 by dp142

[RTOPRO]

I never heard of people dying as a result of not following a number of flagging procedures but I trust that changes constantly are made as a result of incidents. That's the nature of the business we're in. I've also seen a version of the flagging rules book from 50 years ago. Quite small in comparison to today's literature. Things have happened and rules have been created as a direct result. We aren't paid to create our own rules. We're paid to be governed accordingly and if we do someone else will take our place and be governed accordingly.

[dp142]

You still miss the whole point of the post.

By the way, according to the rules you are allowed to step onto the boards in the performance of your duties. Whatever they may be.

[dp142]

Try a Track worker named Boggs. He was killed at 59st. on the Broadway line a few years back following procedures that after review like you said were changed.

 

Get away from that old RTO mentality that the rule book is a bible. Its just a guide. There is always one rule to counteract the next rule.

[RTOPRO]

This is the stuff that gets T/Os sent to labor relations. Rules and regulations being taught in school car and people in the field telling you otherwise. But the fact remains when you know what hits the fan no one in the field is going to come defend you in labor relations to say they told you otherwise because that would involve that person putting their neck on the line. This is the mentality of RTO: CYA! You know what it means.

 

That goes out for all of the T/Os who hit the bricks because of bad flagging to in turn having the missing flagging set up behind their back once the incident occurred because said department wanted to CYA themselves.

 

Now you're right some rules may be counterproductive but they need to be brought up for discussion because if something happens and said rule wasn't followed even though it's counterproductive, it's proven productive instantly by the fact that something happened and you will be no where to be found to put yourself on the line for the T/O. That's the truth.

[SubwayGuy]

The third rail protection board protects the third rail from the accumulation of snow and other precipitation, and also prevents any conductive item that happens to fall against it a certain way and complete a circuit from superheating and causing a track fire.

 

It is NOT to be stepped on. Not to say you won't see it being done, but that's not why it's there.

[dp142]

Your also right in reasons for the the 3rd rail board. However, there are heaters on the rail to prevent the build up of snow and and ice. Items large enough that are conductive and come into contract with the rail will either blow off, like a fuse popping, or if strong enough not to blow off will cause the breakers top come out.

 

Any track fire I've ever been on is from either debris around the insulators or the insulator itself going to ground.

 

RTOPRO- I agree with everything you just posted regarding labor relations. I have been there as a Trackman, union rep, M/S 1 (MOW's version of TSS) and 3rd Rail maintainer.

 

Not to change the point of this forum which is school car we can set up a separate one to discuss MOW, the point, since it was missed, of my post regarding the boards, was to be carefull if you ever step on one due to the weather, creosote or what they are made from. It was about SAFETY!!!

 

BTW- If you ever climbed a bench wall many times the 3rd rail is on the same side as the ladder and you hasn't no choice but to step on it climbing up our down and can be charged worth a rule violation for not doing so as long as there a rubber mat draped over it.

[dp142]

To help end the debate since most missed the point of my previous post which was no more then a safety tip here are the rule numbers.

 

Rule 7.20 page 54 - States it's ok in the performance of duties

 

Rule 10.50 page 69 - States it is not ok when the boards are old

 

Rule 17.30 page 111 - Allows you to sit on it in the performance of duties

 

And yes, RTOPRO I will be there to be found! Anything I do and or say, any advice given is because I have rules with the rule number to back me. As well as personal experience to reference.

[kevinetics]

My classmates and I have seen Signal and Track sleeping on the 3rd Rail Protection Board. Needless to say, we were all dumbfounded. We as RTO will never be so careless unless TA installs maple 360 contact shields with a slit for the current collectors/contact shoes...But how likely is that?

 

 

On a more positive note, we've all passed the final today and next Tuesday is our Road Practical.

[Etrain]

My classmates and I have seen Signal and Track sleeping on the 3rd Rail Protection Board. Needless to say, we were all dumbfounded. We as RTO will never be so careless unless TA installs maple 360 contact shields with a slit for the current collectors/contact shoes...But how likely is that?

 

 

On a more positive note, we've all passed the final today and next Tuesday is our Road Practical.

Congratulations, good luck on your road practical next week.  See you on the road soon.

[kevinetics]

Congratulations, good luck on your road practical next week.  See you on the road soon.

Thanks Etrain!

[Etrain]

I have no feckin' clue. They called me on Friday, and told me I was in the class on Monday. It's been boring. We took a 5-car R160 today down the road from JYD to WTC.

 

Tomorrow we're taking over the Franklin Ave Shuttle to practice. 

How long is OPTO training?

[RTOMan]

How long is OPTO training?

 

Five Days.

[Etrain]

Five Days.

Thanks.  I guess is back to school car for 5 days.

[bc0v9g9]

On a more positive note, we've all passed the final today and next Tuesday is our Road Practical.

 

Congrats! I know you'll do well...

 

On another note: this past Friday TA-28 operated a R142 10 car train roundtrip from Livonia Yd to 239 Yd successfully under the guidance of TSS Richardson and TSS Taylor. Our confidence is growing as we are increasing our skills reading the irons and signals during operation.

Edited June 22, 2013 by bc0v9g9