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realizm

New Queens Subway line to relieve congestion on the IND QBL on hitlist for councilman Leroy Comrie

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airtrain-redevelopement-leroy-comrie.jpg
Credits to the NY Daily News
 
Reading the Daily News this afternoon while musing over my coffee, I've learned that Councilman Leroy Comrie, in his relaunch of his campaign for Queens Borough president, has recently presented a detailed and extensive list of mass transit expansion proposals, which includes a new subway line for New York City's geographically largest borough...
 
..... the Greater Borough of Queens.
 
Leroy Comrie's proposal for a new subway for Queens would be one of numerous proposals over the course of history to solve the infamous and perplexing problem of reducing congestion on the IND Queens Blvd line, currently served by the (E)(F)(M) and (R) trains.
 
Past proposals and studies done by the public benefits corperation, the MTA (as well as past agencies including the NYCTA and the IND which built the original QBL to Jamaica, Queens all of which oversaw transit operation in the past decades) includes the one time "Queens Super Express Line" utilizing the IND 6th Ave line, 63rd St line and LIRR ROW's and scrapped plans to install reverse signaling on the QBL.

Currently according to pending MTA Capital Construction plans, new CBTC technology will be installed on the QBL cutting on wait times for the convenience of busy straphangers who are already suffering from riding on the second most congested rapid transit line in the country, only second to the IRT Lexington Ave. Line.
 
According to the article the MTA spokesperson Kevin Ortiz made the following statement: “Without specific details, I really can’t comment, we’d be more than happy to sit down with Mr. Comrie to discuss his ideas.”
 
Wilford Lora, a maintenance worker said this: “If they had a subway, I’d take it every day...”

Aside from the extremely high costs of construction and property aquisition if at all possible, expanding the (E) or (F) lines may be be "virtually impossible because the areas further east are prone to flooding", noted Comrie.
 
Mr. Comrie has also proposed a plan to completely overhaul the Manhattan and the outer-boro branches of the entire BMT Nassau Street line served by the (J) , (M) , and (Z), as well as, improvements in bus service which he stated will his current top priority.

Thoughts?

Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/new-subway-queens-article-1.1363272#ixzz2WDFTIpKW

Edited by realizm

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If he truly was serious about improving service, he'd call for reactivation of the old Rockaway line. And just look at the picture- he's wearing a badly-tailored size 60 suit. He looks like a clown. I refuse to take him seriously.

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Guest Lance

Don't read too much into this. It's all pandering.

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If he truly was serious about improving service, he'd call for reactivation of the old Rockaway line. And just look at the picture- he's wearing a badly-tailored size 60 suit. He looks like a clown. I refuse to take him seriously.

LMAO.... I have to agree... That suit is so oversized it's not even funny. You see his "little" head and then BAM this big @ss jacket that seems enormous. 

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Don't read too much into this. It's all pandering.

 

I agree. That was on my mind all along. Is this a rehash of Bloomberg's tactics at winning the public and special interest groups with his proposal for the (7) to NJ? I have to ask myself.

 

I can't see how this can even become a reality personally speaking, it just sounds too far fetched and from an engineering perspective not feasible ..... As it is the MTA is planning to initiate CBTC on this outer boro trunk line, perhaps (well obviously) that will put a signifigant dent in the massive congestion problem Queens residents are experiencing on the line particulary the (E) 8th Ave local/Queens Blvd express.

 

So yes indeed, petty politicking at it's best.

 

 

If he truly was serious about improving service, he'd call for reactivation of the old Rockaway line.

Exactly, Southeast Queens residents would benefit from this. It's too bad the NIMBYs killed this proposal. Along with the fact that all that is basically required is utilization of existing infrastructure with some tunnel work to connect the former LIRR trackage into the existing Rego Park Spur on the QBL, it will be a better way to invest towards mass transit expansion. And again with QBL CBTC as I've mentioned above, it makes for a win-win situation for Queens residents overall.

 

But again of course as expected, politicians have their own agendas.

 

I'm not holding my breath on this one.

Edited by realizm

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We need an (E) extension to Francis Lewis via the LIRR ROW already. The Q85 can be sooo slow, sometimes (read: most of the time).

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Comrie for borough president? Not a damn chance. This dude looks like he'll suffer a heart attack mid term.

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We need an (E) extension to Francis Lewis via the LIRR ROW already. The Q85 can be sooo slow, sometimes (read: most of the time).

 

Then transfer to the n20 or some other NICE bus that goes to Francis Lewis Blvd.

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I deal with QBL all my life and I can safely say that it can get as bad as Lexington!

 

Extend the (E) to Rosedale and the (F) to Floral Park!!!

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Seriously though there is a need for the IND Queens Boulevard Super Express line. Whether this guy is serious or not the problem is serious. There is no room for the (G) to run to Forest Hills, and travel time for Eastern Queens is extremely slow and sometimes long. It's something that needs to be looked into. 

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Adding a spur to an already over-capacity line makes no sense, i.e. the Rockaway Line reactivation won't work. 

 

What would be far more fun would be a Super-express line along the Long Island Expressway connecting at Jamaica and then have extensions to the outer neighborhoods from there.

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We need an (E) extension to Francis Lewis via the LIRR ROW already. The Q85 can be sooo slow, sometimes (read: most of the time).

 

Speaking of which that was part of the whole grand master plan for the Queens Super Express (late 60's - early 70's) and massive expansion during the conception of the MTA as we know now . But would'nt FRA guidlines interfere with that one, good as it sounds? (This was a problem with the proposed Triboro RX line during the Jay Walder days, if I'm correct)

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We need an (E) extension to Francis Lewis via the LIRR ROW already. The Q85 can be sooo slow, sometimes (read: most of the time).

 

Really now you can switch to LIRR at jamacia you know. Plus those LIRR trains at locust manor are mostly far rockaway trains anyway so they don't go deep into LI at all long beach trains only serve SE queens stations on weekends.

 

I agree. That was on my mind all along. Is this a rehash of Bloomberg's tactics at winning the public and special interest groups with his proposal for the (7) to NJ? I have to ask myself.

 

I can't see how this can even become a reality personally speaking, it just sounds too far fetched and from an engineering perspective not feasible ..... As it is the MTA is planning to initiate CBTC on this outer boro trunk line, perhaps (well obviously) that will put a signifigant dent in the massive congestion problem Queens residents are experiencing on the line particulary the (E) 8th Ave local/Queens Blvd express.

 

So yes indeed, petty politicking at it's best.

 

 

Exactly, Southeast Queens residents would benefit from this. It's too bad the NIMBYs killed this proposal. Along with the fact that all that is basically required is utilization of existing infrastructure with some tunnel work to connect the former LIRR trackage into the existing Rego Park Spur on the QBL, it will be a better way to invest towards mass transit expansion. And again with QBL CBTC as I've mentioned above, it makes for a win-win situation for Queens residents overall.

 

But again of course as expected, politicians have their own agendas.

 

I'm not holding my breath on this one.

QBL CBTC is the only feasible way to reactivate the old rockaway line yet that is not exactly a high priority. SE queens residents use LIRR and are not exactly near the rockaway line.

 

Speaking of which that was part of the whole grand master plan for the Queens Super Express (late 60's - early 70's) and massive expansion during the conception of the MTA as we know now . But would'nt FRA guidlines interfere with that one, good as it sounds? (This was a problem with the proposed Triboro RX line during the Jay Walder days, if I'm correct)

There is a way to get around the FRA bullshit for the triboro RX simple make it a high frequency rail line or combine it with the FRA compliant SIR via a tunnel Or to cut costs short term a rail ferry like in this video 

 

 

Adding a spur to an already over-capacity line makes no sense, i.e. the Rockaway Line reactivation won't work. 

 

What would be far more fun would be a Super-express line along the Long Island Expressway connecting at Jamaica and then have extensions to the outer neighborhoods from there.

If you want to benefit more people a busway BRT would be best for the LIE cause then you can upgrade express bus speed and create a transfer station at woodhaven without buses having to get off and stop at street level to make connections. A bus to LGA from jamacia 179th would be nice at off-peak nicer would be to merge it with Q77 when traffic isn't an issue that will force sunday service to be added. That BRT would speed up travel to all parts of queens.

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Really now you can switch to LIRR at jamacia you know. Plus those LIRR trains at locust manor are mostly far rockaway trains anyway so they don't go deep into LI at all long beach trains only serve SE queens stations on weekends.

QBL CBTC is the only feasible way to reactivate the old rockaway line yet that is not exactly a high priority. SE queens residents use LIRR and are not exactly near the rockaway line.

 

There is a way to get around the FRA bullshit for the triboro RX simple make it a high frequency rail line or combine it with the FRA compliant SIR via a tunnel Or to cut costs short term a rail ferry like in this video

 

 

If you want to benefit more people a busway BRT would be best for the LIE cause then you can upgrade express bus speed and create a transfer station at woodhaven without buses having to get off and stop at street level to make connections. A bus to LGA from jamacia 179th would be nice at off-peak nicer would be to merge it with Q77 when traffic isn't an issue that will force sunday service to be added. That BRT would speed up travel to all parts of queens.

I'm not sure if BRT is the solution. I have my own fantasy proposals for that but there are flaws for BRT

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Seriously though there is a need for the IND Queens Boulevard Super Express line. Whether this guy is serious or not the problem is serious. There is no room for the (G) to run to Forest Hills, and travel time for Eastern Queens is extremely slow and sometimes long. It's something that needs to be looked into. 

 

Exactly. But the problem is that the LIRR now has increased in ridership now to become the busiest railroad in the US since the proposal was made decades ago according to info posted on various sites for references on ridership stats. Things has changed. Now there is indeed much reverse commuting where we have LI riders who will utilize the QBL from the LIRR. Somerthing that was only beginning to happen during the proposal made. The MTA didn anticipate this which is why the 63rd St line was built to accomidate mass transit and railroad service.

 

Hence the long awaited east Side project, something that should have been completed ages ago.

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QBL CBTC is the only feasible way to reactivate the old rockaway line yet that is not exactly a high priority. SE queens residents use LIRR and are not exactly near the rockaway line.

 

Well the reason is that because of Albany bullshit stalling the funding for the project, many residents were forced to adapt and either suffer with substandard bus service, or outright purchase cars to commute and work with the stagnation of false promises of mass expansion. the  late IND was on the right track (i.e second System, also the MTA when it was formed)  until politicians advocating for motorists as well as the NIMBY'sput a dead end to things and that's just the start.... and I'm speaking as a motorist!!!

 

Adding a spur to an already over-capacity line makes no sense, i.e. the Rockaway Line reactivation won't work. 

 

 

The spur already exists as a result of overenginerring on the part of the IND way back when the IND built the line. Ride the QBL one day and railfan off the side windows before the approach to the Rego Park Station on the Jamaica Bound side. It's already there.

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They really need more service on QBL Local... The (R) service is terrible on weekends. Even extending the (M) to 71 on Weekends with 12 minute headways is better then just the (R) alone... 

It's frustrating waiting at Woodhaven Blvd (which is about as busy as an express station) and seeing 3-4 express trains pass in the direction you're going. 

Not only that, most of the time the Jamaica bound platform at Roosevelt Avenue gets packed on the local side. It is also frustrating to see about 4-5 express trains come in when finally one local comes in, and sometimes by that time you have to wait for the next train.

 

The worst has to be late night just before 12 am, when the last few (R) s come to Roosevelt going to 71. Usually its about 10 express train per 1 local train at Roosevelt, and the platform gets dangerously packed. People get pissed off when over and over they hear "There is a Queens bound express train one station away," and then a big sigh of relief when it says "There is a Queens bound local train one station away". The problem there is you can't wait for the next local or you'll be waiting for 15-20 minutes, so everyone has to pack onto the train. It basically looks like Rush Hour crowds... at 12 AM. Now that's sad.

Edited by 4P3607
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Adding a spur to an already over-capacity line makes no sense, i.e. the Rockaway Line reactivation won't work. 

 

What would be far more fun would be a Super-express line along the Long Island Expressway connecting at Jamaica and then have extensions to the outer neighborhoods from there.

 

Depends if people from LI want that. LIRR is already doing a fine job (except for the ticket prices) of serving Jamaica and the outer neighbourhoods there.

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Then transfer to the n20 or some other NICE bus that goes to Francis Lewis Blvd.

 

Nassau buses are closed-door in Queens (they won't drop off going east and they won't pick up going west)

 

Speaking of which that was part of the whole grand master plan for the Queens Super Express (late 60's - early 70's) and massive expansion during the conception of the MTA as we know now . But would'nt FRA guidlines interfere with that one, good as it sounds? (This was a problem with the proposed Triboro RX line during the Jay Walder days, if I'm correct)

 

FRA guidelines only says that they can't share tracks. If you disconnect the LIRR ROW (which is certainly doable, since Far Rockaway trains can get shoved onto the St. Albans tracks without any notable decrease in frequency), then it's fine. Most of Triboro RX has space for four-tracks in the right-of-way, which is also technically permissible since subway lines already run alongside railroad tracks in other cities.

 

Really now you can switch to LIRR at jamacia you know. Plus those LIRR trains at locust manor are mostly far rockaway trains anyway so they don't go deep into LI at all long beach trains only serve SE queens stations on weekends.

QBL CBTC is the only feasible way to reactivate the old rockaway line yet that is not exactly a high priority. SE queens residents use LIRR and are not exactly near the rockaway line.

 

There is a way to get around the FRA bullshit for the triboro RX simple make it a high frequency rail line or combine it with the FRA compliant SIR via a tunnel Or to cut costs short term a rail ferry like in this video 

 

 

If you want to benefit more people a busway BRT would be best for the LIE cause then you can upgrade express bus speed and create a transfer station at woodhaven without buses having to get off and stop at street level to make connections. A bus to LGA from jamacia 179th would be nice at off-peak nicer would be to merge it with Q77 when traffic isn't an issue that will force sunday service to be added. That BRT would speed up travel to all parts of queens.

 

-LIRR is not frequent or cheap enough for the majority of Queens residents to consider using (and that's the point of the fares, because a surprising amount of suburbanites think the city is this dangerous ghetto full of minorities). If I can save $7 using NYCT and MTAB instead of the LIRR, I'm going to do it, because $7 is more than enough to buy a nice lunch. You are correct with the Rockaway reactivation though - it's a bad idea for the same reason that Queensway is a bad idea (It is surrounded by parkland and no one's going to use it).

 

The only feasible connection for Queensway is to QBL local, which will allow trains to avoid the congested Forest Hills terminal, but the idea becomes a lot less attractive once that becomes clear.

 

-It's quite clear that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to FRA regulations...

Crackpot ideas like a rail tunnel to SI and a rail ferry (to cross what body of water? RX is mostly for the Bronx and Brooklyn/Queens, but Brooklyn/Queens is the easiest segment to start and I've no idea where exactly they want it to go in the Bronx...)

 

-Queens needs subway level capacity, not a busway...

A subway in New York can move 60K-80K people per hour, and possibly even more.  The busiest BRT systems in the world only manage 30K people per hour, and that's with two lanes in each direction, dedicated ROW, and double-articulated buses.

 

Not to mention, there's no good place for a western terminus of an LIE busway, since the Queens Midtown Tunnel is only two lanes in each direction, and there's no room to expand any part of the LIE without destroying a lot of houses.

 

Well the reason is that because of Albany bullshit stalling the funding for the project, many residents were forced to adapt and either suffer with substandard bus service, or outright purchase cars to commute and work with the stagnation of false promises of mass expansion. the  late IND was on the right track (i.e second System, also the MTA when it was formed)  until politicians advocating for motorists as well as the NIMBY'sput a dead end to things and that's just the start.... and I'm speaking as a motorist!!!

 

The spur already exists as a result of overenginerring on the part of the IND way back when the IND built the line. Ride the QBL one day and railfan off the side windows before the approach to the Rego Park Station on the Jamaica Bound side. It's already there.

 

Unfortunately, IND squandered a lot more money than necessary on screwing over the IRT/BMT...

(There's also a portal for a Horace Harding Line, which is never happening, and everybody knows about S 4th St)

 

Depends if people from LI want that. LIRR is already doing a fine job (except for the ticket prices) of serving Jamaica and the outer neighbourhoods there.

 

Not at all... service is erratically scheduled, even off-peak, in-city stations are not all full-length, and prices are ridiculous for just commuting in the city.

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I'd also like to point out that the assertion in the paper (building a subway through flood-prone areas is bad) is flawed... we have subways in Coney Island and the Rockaways, don't we?

The other part of it is that a significant amount of flooding in Eastern Queens is due to the fact that the sewers are way overcapacity. If the sewers were expanded to reflect the increased population, there would be a lot less flooding. Not to mention, the MTA has already done extensive flood mitigation measures in the facilities it does have in Eastern Queens, notably along Hillside and Archer Avenues.

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-Queens needs subway level capacity, not a busway...

A subway in New York can move 60K-80K people per hour, and possibly even more.  The busiest BRT systems in the world only manage 30K people per hour, and that's with two lanes in each direction, dedicated ROW, and double-articulated buses.

 

False. One bus line in Utrecht, The Netherlands is a BRT line and carries way more than 30k people per day. In fact, it runs every 1 minute (except for evening and Sundays) because of the high amount of people using it and it uses double-articulated Van Hools on every run.

Edited by Vistausss

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False. One bus line in Utrecht, The Netherlands is a BRT line and carries way more than 30k people per day. In fact, it runs every 1 minute (except for evening and Sundays) because of the high amount of people using it and it uses double-articulated Van Hools on every run.

 

Not per day, per hour. Bogota, Colombia, manages 40K an hour, but this is with two lanes, express passing buses, and double articulated Volvos. They can barely handle this amount, and this is with buses running every 30 seconds - any closer and you'd get a lot of knock-on delays.

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