A Survey of SIR Riders Reveals...

[Fan Railer]

That they have things to be dissatisfied about.

http://www.amny.com/urbanite-1.812039/si-train-riders-gripe-about-rail-service-1.5655679

The riders of Staten Island's lone rail line said in a survey that their train is a failure, citing poor security, cleanliness and transit connections.

The survey of more than 1,200 riders released Tuesday by State Sen. Diane Savino's office showed riders were clamoring for service that would make their commutes safer and less aggravating.

"They spend a lot of time in that long, intolerable commute thinking about what would make their lives easier," said Savino, who represents Staten Island's north shore and parts of Brooklyn.

A top concern was station appearance and safety. Savino noted that city and state money has been appropriated for police cameras at stations, but only one has been equipped so far. Recommendations included the installation of LED lights, more access to waiting areas and newsstand concessions in high-traffic stations to make the area more welcoming.

...

It is an interesting article. While I would normally take the side of "they should be grateful to have service at all," there is a reasonable stake in the desire for a safer atmosphere and a more coordinated schedule. The system is, after all, classified as a railroad by the FRA and not a subway, so I for one would expect a level of service that is at least slightly stepped up from the somewhat more chaotic service that is a metro system. Afterall, why shouldn't SIR riders complain a little? They're stuck with one of the oldest cars in the fleet, with no new cars coming to replace them for almost a decade.

 

[qjtransitmaster]

Better idea give em M8 or M9 rail cars that should keep an happy!!

[Vistausss]

Better idea give em M8 or M9 rail cars that should keep an happy!!

 

The M8's are spefically built for MNRR. The M9's could be built for SIR but that would be way more expensive than the R211's. And that's even aside from the fact that the SIR signaling system needs to be built-in which adds extra costs (also for the R211's but those are cheaper to built).

[Art Vandelay]

SIR is not an FRA mandated railroad. Even if it was, why would FRA governance mean that service should be in any way better?

[Turbo19]

Better idea give em M8 or M9 rail cars that should keep an happy!!

If it's of any interest new cars were promised after the retirement of the R46's that were placed on the line a year or two ago.

[qjtransitmaster]

The M8's are spefically built for MNRR. The M9's could be built for SIR but that would be way more expensive than the R211's. And that's even aside from the fact that the SIR signaling system needs to be built-in which adds extra costs (also for the R211's but those are cheaper to built).

yeah but can R211s switch between 3rd rail and catenary wire?

[bobtehpanda]

yeah but can R211s switch between 3rd rail and catenary wire?

 

Why the hell do you need catenary wire on the SIR?

 

SIR is not an FRA mandated railroad. Even if it was, why would FRA governance mean that service should be in any way better?

 

It actually usually means that service is worse. See: Caltrain.

[qjtransitmaster]

Why the hell do you need catenary wire on the SIR?

 

It actually usually means that service is worse. See: Caltrain.

you mean reduced frequency? By see caltrain? How did FRA ruin it?

[Vistausss]

SIR is not an FRA mandated railroad. Even if it was, why would FRA governance mean that service should be in any way better?

 

The freight service on the SIR is FRA mandated, the passenger service is not.

[Kamen Rider]

FRA or not FRA isn't the point here, an 85 footer (the length of an LIRR/MNR MU) does not fit in St. George station, it will sideswipe the bus ramp support pillars while manuvering the interlocking.

[Vistausss]

FRA or not FRA isn't the point here, an 85 footer (the length of an LIRR/MNR MU) does not fit in St. George station, it will sideswipe the bus ramp support pillars while manuvering the interlocking.

 

Length is not the point here, the cars of the M7 on LIRR are not fixed so you can make 'em as long as you want in order to fit the platform lenght (and that will be the same with the future M9's).

But again: my previous post explains why it wouldn't work.

[Kamen Rider]

Length is not the point here, the cars of the M7 on LIRR are not fixed so you can make 'em as long as you want in order to fit the platform lenght (and that will be the same with the future M9's).

But again: my previous post explains why it wouldn't work.

Did you actually read what I wrote?

 

Any of it?

 

Length is the point. The M series commuter cars are desinged to a length of 85 feet they always have been. If a car of that length tries to pass over the switches leading into St. George Terminal, the carbody would overhang in the wrong place and hit the supports for the bus terminal ramps above the station. That's why 75 foot cars have been used for so long. anything longer doesn't fit properly.

[Vistausss]

Wait, what lenght are you talking about?

[Fan Railer]

Wait, what lenght are you talking about?

Lol he's talking about the individual car length. His point is kind of how a 75 ft IND car would not fit through the BMT eastern division.

[Around the Horn]

SIR is not an FRA mandated railroad. Even if it was, why would FRA governance mean that service should be in any way better?

Yes it is...

"The freight line connection from New Jersey to the Staten Island Railway was restored in late 2006, and is operated in part by the Morristown and Erie Railway under contract with the State of New Jersey and other companies.^[14] The Arthur Kill Vertical Lift Bridge which transports trains from Staten Island to New Jersey over the Arthur Kill waterway was renovated in 2006 and began regular service on April 2, 2007, 16 years after the bridge closed.^[15] A portion of the North Shore of the Staten Island Railway was rehabilitated, the Arlington Yard was expanded, and 6,500 feet (1,981 m) of new track was laid along the Travis Branch to Fresh Kills.^[16] Soon after service restarted on the line Mayor of New York City Michael Bloomberg officially commemorated the reactivation on April 17, 2007.^[17] On behalf of the City of New York, the New York City Economic Development Corporation formed an agreement with CSX Transportation, Norfolk Southern Railway, and Conrail to provide service over the reactivated line to haul waste from the Staten Island Transfer Station and ship container freight from the Howland Hook Marine Terminal and other industrial businesses." Freight service on the right of way is in FRA oversight meaning the modified R44's must meet FRA standards.

[lirr42]

Yeah, I always thought the Staten Island Railroad was a real FRA mandated railroad as well.  I believe PATH is also a similarly a FRA mandated railraod, dating back to the times when it shared trackage with the Pennsylvania Railroad.

 

It seems like PATH is keeping up its railraod status just in case it decides to expand operations down the road along existing railroad rights of ways.

 

Case and point with SIR: lets say one day the MTA decides it will finally extend the SIR over the Verrazanno Bridge.  It can then jump over to the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch and run as the oft-dreamed Triboro RX service.  If that service over the Bay Ridge Branch was done as an extension of the Staten Island Railroad with SIR-type equipment, it could probably go over very well since SIR would still be an FRA mandated railraod and could therefore share tracks and coexist pretty peacefully with the existing NYA&R and CSX services operating over that route.

[Vistausss]

*sigh* The freight branch is FRA mandated, the SIR is not.

 

Btw: let's first reactivate the North Shore branch before we start to talk about the Triboro RX.

[bobtehpanda]

I'm just going to point out, as has been pointed out on these forums many times before, that Wikipedia is not the most updated, reliable source on transit.

[rr4567]

They'll have the right to complain once they have to pay the fare at every stop.

[Around the Horn]

I'm just going to point out, as has been pointed out on these forums many times before, that Wikipedia is not the most updated, reliable source on transit.

I checked their sources which were accurate and quoted in the article.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah, I always thought the Staten Island Railroad was a real FRA mandated railroad as well.  I believe PATH is also a similarly a FRA mandated railraod, dating back to the times when it shared trackage with the Pennsylvania Railroad.

 

It seems like PATH is keeping up its railraod status just in case it decides to expand operations down the road along existing railroad rights of ways.

 

Case and point with SIR: lets say one day the MTA decides it will finally extend the SIR over the Verrazanno Bridge.  It can then jump over to the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch and run as the oft-dreamed Triboro RX service.  If that service over the Bay Ridge Branch was done as an extension of the Staten Island Railroad with SIR-type equipment, it could probably go over very well since SIR would still be an FRA mandated railraod and could therefore share tracks and coexist pretty peacefully with the existing NYA&R and CSX services operating over that route.

But ridership would skyrocket and require service enhancements.

[Q90]

If it's of any interest new cars were promised after the retirement of the R46's that were placed on the line a year or two ago.

 

R44s not R46s

[Far Rock Depot]

Did you actually read what I wrote?

 

Any of it?

 

Length is the point. The M series commuter cars are desinged to a length of 85 feet they always have been. If a car of that length tries to pass over the switches leading into St. George Terminal, the carbody would overhang in the wrong place and hit the supports for the bus terminal ramps above the station. That's why 75 foot cars have been used for so long. anything longer doesn't fit properly.

LIRR MP72 cars were used for service in the early 70s before the R44s arrived. 

[Turbo19]

R44s not R46s

Thank you.

[realizm]

SIR is not an FRA mandated railroad. Even if it was, why would FRA governance mean that service should be in any way better?

 

It's true that the system is not under FRA oversight with the exception of freight service on that you are correct, but even still the infrastructure, rules of operations, and therefore the trains technically are to FRA standards. That was already debated.

 

Also the fact that the R44's providing passenger service on MTA SIR runs on different voltages from the R44's on the MTA Subways , despite the fact that all the lines except one is indeed not under FRA oversight and that either way not systems are provided power by Con Edison, technically. (In contrast to the problem with LIPA powered rail on the IND Rockways, which is why R160's cannot run on that line, which is a voltage issue, but for a different reason.) Hence the R44's being modified in the first place.

 

So in the case of the tentative R211's the MTA will have to figure out the solution to the the voltage differences between both systems, between the versions of the R211's as they already did with the entire R44 fleet, all in all, for both systems.

 

 

If it's of any interest new cars were promised after the retirement of the R46's that were placed on the line a year or two ago.

 

I'm disregarding regarding the typo on the R46 citation, I make typos. But you remind me of another point. The MTA at some point ( and still may carry this out) may decide to appoint the R211's strictly on MTA subways, instead placing R46's that will be displaced, modify them and then place them on the SIR as an alternative to replace the R44's, for the reasons mentioned above.