R to 179th Street-Jamaica?

[Rtrain4thAv]

I know that the R went to 179th Street in the 1980s, but for how long did it run? How long was the route (in miles)? Why was it cut back?

[IRT Bronx Express]

A short-lived service that was possibly axed sometime in the early '90s.

 

Hillside Av riders didn't want the since it ran local, so the TA thought it was best for the to run local at Hillside Av since it ran express between Queens Plz and Forest Hills at that time.

[RollOver]

It got cut back because ridership demanded for a quicker one-seated ride to the CBDs. The and those limited trains via the Hillside branch are doing the job pretty well.

 

The is still heavily used in Queens and Manhattan though, even with its 10 minute headway.

[bobtehpanda]

179th didn't (and still doesn't) warrant two services with Archer Av completed.

[N6 Limited]

How crazy was Hillside Ave, 169th and 179th stations before Archer Opened?

[Union Tpke]

The got extended to 179 St on December 11, 1988. The mta thought that the Line to 179 St needed two trains so they extended the . The R was local while the F was express. It wasn't a success. The passengers at the local stops transfered to the at the nearest express stop. The ran to 179 St full-time until September 1990 when it started running there during rush hours. It stopped running to 179 St in October 1992. The ran to 179 St during late nights starting on September 30, 1990 when the ran to 57 St during late nights. The ti 179 St lasted until 1997.

[bobtehpanda]

How crazy was Hillside Ave, 169th and 179th stations before Archer Opened?

Pretty much all the routes feeding Archer today fed Hillside. There's a downloadable pamphlet somewhere here detailing the massive bus rerouting that occurred once Archer opened.

 

169th has those railings leading up to its stairwells because of how crowded that station once was, if that's any help.

[Vistausss]

@bobtehpanda: Doesn't warrant two services... so you meant that those rush hour trains to 179th aren't well used? (yes I know why they are send there, I'm just wondering if people actually use it if you say it doesn't warrant two services)

[bobtehpanda]

@bobtehpanda: Doesn't warrant two services... so you meant that those rush hour trains to 179th aren't well used? (yes I know why they are send there, I'm just wondering if people actually use it if you say it doesn't warrant two services)

 

They're used, but no one goes out of their way to look for them.

 

I also don't know why the sign boards and FINDs list 179th St (E)'s as going express, because they've made local stops on the Hillside Ave Line every time I've been on them.

[realizm]

How crazy was Hillside Ave, 169th and 179th stations before Archer Opened?

 

Well put it this way: The 14 peak hour express trains immediately right after the Archer Ave subway opened for revenue service used have load factors of 122%, pre-63rd Street connector. That was worse then the today which ranges @ 103% max. We can only imagine then how bad it was for before the Archer Ave line was open for revenue service with trains running to exclusively 179th St as the last stop.

[RTOMan]

Folks regarding those Rush hour Echos to 179 street Yes people do look for them I should know first hand.

[Guest Lance]

I also don't know why the sign boards and FINDs list 179th St (E)'s as going express, because they've made local stops on the Hillside Ave Line every time I've been on them.

They're only coded for options to/from 179 St via Hillside Express.

[N6 Limited]

The got extended to 179 St on December 11, 1988. The mta thought that the Line to 179 St needed two trains so they extended the . The R was local while the F was express. It wasn't a success. The passengers at the local stops transfered to the at the nearest express stop. The ran to 179 St full-time until September 1990 when it started running there during rush hours. It stopped running to 179 St in October 1992. The ran to 179 St during late nights starting on September 30, 1990 when the ran to 57 St during late nights. The ti 179 St lasted until 1997.

When the Ran to 179th late nights, was the express? Or did riders have to take the Local and transfer at Union Turnpike/ Van Wyck Blvd?

 

They're used, but no one goes out of their way to look for them.

 

I also don't know why the sign boards and FINDs list 179th St (E)'s as going express, because they've made local stops on the Hillside Ave Line every time I've been on them.

I've taken the 8:11am out of 179th and it goes express. The last couple to 179 in the evenings ones may not go express because they start parking trains on the express track.

 

 

Well put it this way: The 14 peak hour express trains immediately right after the Archer Ave subway opened for revenue service used have load factors of 122%, pre-63rd Street connector. That was worse then the today which ranges @ 103% max. We can only imagine then how bad it was for before the Archer Ave line was open for revenue service with trains running to exclusively 179th St as the last stop.

Why would the E be that much more packed then the F if they had the same routing up until 5th ave? Was it because only the E stopped at 169th?

[RTOMan]

I've taken the 8:11am out of 179th and it goes express. The last couple to 179 in the evenings ones may not go express because they start parking trains on the express track.

 

 

 

No Echos that Leave WTC on the PMs that go to 179 Run Express from CTL to 179. If thats what you are saying.

[N6 Limited]

No Echos that Leave WTC on the PMs that go to 179 Run Express from CTL to 179. If thats what you are saying.

Thanks I wasn't sure. I know I've taken Express (E)'s from 179th but I've taken the last one in the evening and it was local, I wasn't sure if it was because there were trains parked on the express track, or because they don't run express in the PM. 

[RTOMan]

Thanks I wasn't sure. I know I've taken Express (E)'s from 179th but I've taken the last one in the evening and it was local, I wasn't sure if it was because there were trains parked on the express track, or because they don't run express in the PM. 

 

No they are just laid up there. Nothing that goes to 179th on the PMs goes express Echo or Fox. Unless there is a serious delay going Northbound and 179 needs service going south. Never seen it happen though.

[Eric B]

IS there a reason they make the (E)'s int he PM local? (I was never sure of that. I would occasionally get one of the putins in the AM in the past, and that was always express, but never had one of the layups in the PM.

[Guest Lance]

When the Ran to 179th late nights, was the express? Or did riders have to take the Local and transfer at Union Turnpike/ Van Wyck Blvd?

The E was the full-time Queens Blvd Express (Queens Plaza to Jamaica-Van Wyck) until '97 when it took over the local tracks during the overnight hours.

[realizm]

Why would the E be that much more packed then the F if they had the same routing up until 5th ave? Was it because only the E stopped at 169th?

Exactly as Lance put it. On top of that archived sources proves it with past studies performed towards solving the QBL congestion problem, the second busiest rapid transit line in the entire United States, second only to the IRT Lex.

[realizm]

OK found it. Refer to this post in a recent thread over last Spring season. This will confirm everything plus sources I have found:
 
 I have also posted sources from a recent thread discussing the argument for the restoration of the line in regards to the conditions if the but I will provide the source upon request. Hope this helps.
 

 

 
 

[bobtehpanda]

I would like to point out that while the was rated for higher crush loading in the past than the is currently rated, keep in mind that loading guidelines have been nudged up due to budget cuts and politics, so it is no longer such an easy apples-to-apples comparison.

 

The fact that there are no seats on any westbound train out of Kew Gardens-Union Tpke, even during off-peak hours, is just ridiculous.

[Union Tpke]

I regularly go to the Union Tpke stop; the trains aren't packed and I can sometimes find a seat.

 

 

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[N6 Limited]

While the QB line is congested during rush hours, especially AM Peak, there is capacity out side of rush hours and there is room for additional riders. People seem to think that there's just no more room for anyone else, that's not true.

 

I would like to point out that while the was rated for higher crush loading in the past than the is currently rated, keep in mind that loading guidelines have been nudged up due to budget cuts and politics, so it is no longer such an easy apples-to-apples comparison.

 

The fact that there are no seats on any westbound train out of Kew Gardens-Union Tpke, even during off-peak hours, is just ridiculous.

 Outside of rush hour there can be seats at 71st continental, and sometimes Roosevelt Ave depending on the time. I mean, If the line was all by itself I think it wouldn't be as congested. It's the added passengers from the that add fuel to the fire. Even in the evenings, the Jamaica bound and could be full and then half the train spills out at Roosevelt Ave. Of course those are Local QB riders also, so it wouldn't be entirely fair to say it's only riders. 

[Vistausss]

@Union Tpike: Even though your name suggests that you have plenty of experience, I'm trusting bobtehpanda on this one. He's usually right on spot when it comes statistics, just like AndrewJC.

[realizm]

I would like to point out that while the was rated for higher crush loading in the past than the is currently rated, keep in mind that loading guidelines have been nudged up due to budget cuts and politics, so it is no longer such an easy apples-to-apples comparison.

 

The fact that there are no seats on any westbound train out of Kew Gardens-Union Tpke, even during off-peak hours, is just ridiculous.

 

Well yes true I see where you got the official source, you are correct. The loading capacity guidelines has been changed, allowing for more standees, from 100% previously to 125% currently, in anticipation of more crowded trains as a result of overall reductions of service due to the budget cuts.  

 

If I may, allow me to clarify: The data I chose to follow for rough comparisons with both routes in regards to crushloading on the QBL before the 63rd Street connector was built were from sources compiled before the 2010 budget cuts and that includes the IRT Lexington line. One of the studies were cited in a NY Times article right before the cuts were to take effect.

 

Links: http://ntl.bts.gov/DOCS/queen.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/nyregion/26mta.html?_r=1&

 

However if you may provide more current sources for my knowledge by all means I encourage you to post, as that will go for good conversation in the light of the QBL CBTC project to start late into next year. I am always up learning something new.