Overcrowding on the D in the Bronx, during the weekend

[realizm]

Very recently I had to head uptown to the Bronx back to my old neighborhood in the Boogie Down all the way to Fordham Road. It was like a reoccuring nightmare of past experiences.

 

It has'nt changed.

 

The IND Grand Concourse/6th Ave Express, namely the ,  is ridiculously crowded. Forget weekends, the R68's can become crushloaded. ESPECIALLY during some of these GO's I used to deal with as a Bronx resident. Its like straphanger suicide as the trains are sent local all the way from 205th Street against the benchwalls to 59th Street in Manhattan.

 

We can't hold our breaths for a Second Ave Line to the Bronx any time soon so scratch that idea.

 

So I'm thinking that what the solution to this problem should be is to implement weekend service. It will also compliment service in Manhattan and the in the Bronx, another congested line. Thoughts?

 

Edit: I still think Riverdale should be considered a part of the Bronx. Feel free to discuss.

[Turbo19]

I'd be in agreement with this proposal, mainly because it'd take people off the already crowded , and supplement the , , & in the Bronx, perhaps even the if done correctly. Regarding the , well that line is in it's own pile of shit in itself so any supplements would assist greatly.

 

On that last note, one could argue that at one point the neighborhood of Riverdale was more closely related to Manhattan, however it's no separate jurisdiction at all either. I'd say it's most closely related with Yonkers but for simplicity's sake everyone refers to it as the Bronx, as it is.

[realizm]

I'd be in agreement with this proposal, mainly because it'd take people off the already crowded , and supplement the , , & in the Bronx, perhaps even the if done correctly. Regarding the , well that line is in it's own pile of shit in itself so any supplements would assist greatly.

 

On that last note, one could argue that at one point the neighborhood of Riverdale was more closely related to Manhattan, however it's no separate jurisdiction at all either. I'd say it's most closely related with Yonkers but for simplicity's sake everyone refers to it as the Bronx, as it is.

 

Indeed. Why else would the MTA subway map indicate that last stop on the (Van Cortlandt Park – 242nd Street) as located in Riverdale, the Bronx?

 

I think the weekend service would do the trick for many residents in the Bronx. I mean every weekend its like controlled chaos, because the trains are so jampacked. Theres only so much we can do with the headways of one line. So let it be and locals ( the of course running express on the IND CPW) on the weekends, the does not have to run late nights, thats what I am thinking.

[Turbo19]

 

Indeed. Why else would the MTA subway map indicate that last stop on the (Van Cortlandt Park – 242nd Street) as located in Riverdale, the Bronx?

 

I think the weekend service would do the trick for many residents in the Bronx. I mean every weekend its like controlled chaos, because the trains are so jampacked. Theres only so much we can do with the headways of one line. So let it be and locals ( the of course running express on the IND CPW) on the weekends, the does not have to run late nights, thats what I am thinking.

Yes, but quite honestly though I think there needs to be an increased amount of trains. Patterns are usually , , , , & so forth.

[Roadcruiser1]

If they added one more station to the Metro North Railroad Line running next to Third Avenue and lower the price for residents living around the station and the city to $2.50 it did make a good temporarily solution till the can make it up there...........

[Turbo19]

If they added one more station to the Metro North Railroad Line running next to Third Avenue and lower the price for residents living around the station and the city to $2.50 it did make a good temporarily solution till the can make it up there...........

I can hear the opposition already...

[realizm]

If they added one more station to the Metro North Railroad Line running next to Third Avenue and lower the price for residents living around the station and the city to $2.50 it did make a good temporarily solution till the can make it up there...........

 

 I dont see how thats structurally feasible. Plus many residents in the city prefer the lower fares MTA Subways offers as compared to the MNRR. In fact really there isnt much of a time difference in terms of travel time to Manhattan when you put the MNRR against the express in the Bronx on rush hours.

 

Put it another way, we have the LIRR next to Fliushing Main Street and thats not helping the .....

 

 

Regarding the , well that line is in it's own pile of shit in itself so any supplements would assist greatly.

You know thats food for thought.... The thing is that, if the MDBF's this year can be inproved upon for the R32's that will significantly improve the service until the R179's are brought in for service.

[Turbo19]

 

 I dont see how thats structurally feasible. Plus many residents in the city prefer the lower fares MTA Subways offers as compared to the MNRR. In fact really there isnt much of a time difference in terms of travel time to Manhattan when you put the MNRR against the express in the Bronx on rush hours.

 

Put it another way, we have the LIRR next to Fliushing Main Street and thats not helping the .....

In addition the Hudson Line is crowded as it stands. No need for it to handle a sudden influx of passengers.

 

 

 You know thats food for thought.... The thing is that, if the MDBF's this year can be inproved upon for the R32's that will significantly improve the service until the R179's are brought in for service.

Precisely. Jamaica better get to it because from what I see it's not getting any better, in fact quite the contrary.

[realizm]

In addition the Hudson Line is crowded as it stands. No need for it to handle a sudden influx of passengers.

 

 

Precisely. Jamaica better get to it because from what I see it's not getting any better, in fact quite the contrary.

Good luck 207th Street Shops on figuring this one out with a MDBF of 52,205 on the R32's against a 160,140 average.

[peacemak3r]

1 So I'm thinking that what the solution to this problem should be is to implement weekend service.

 

2 Edit: I still think Riverdale should be considered a part of the Bronx. Feel free to discuss.

 

1 - As much as I'd like a weekend service, it would probably only justify in the Bronx as you stated.  Brooklyn probably wouldn't need the express on the weekends. Unless of course you can terminate the at 2 Av on the weekends or something.

 

2 - My professor lives in Riverdale, her and most of her family considers Riverdale a part of the Bronx. I brought this up in Off-Topic not too recently.

[RollOver]

Every neighborhood is part of the borough and city they're in.

[realizm]

1 - As much as I'd like a weekend service, it would probably only justify in the Bronx as you stated. Brooklyn probably wouldn't need the express on the weekends. Unless of course you can terminate the at 2 Av on the weekends or something.

 

2 - My professor lives in Riverdale, her and most of her family considers Riverdale a part of the Bronx. I brought this up in Off-Topic not too recently.

Hmmm... so the only way we *might* be able to get the 's to 2nd Avenue is to send it local down 6th Avenue. I dont think it may drastically affect service too much with the exception of the dispatching problems that could occur at the 47-50th Street interlocking.

 

 

 

Every neighborhood is part of the borough and city they're in.

Exactly. I never saw what the big deal was historically.

[Vistausss]

I'm not sure if VG8 and other Riverdalians will like the idea of that...

 

Anyway, a better terminal could also help for the . 205th was never meant as a full-scale terminal. Extend it to Co-Op City and build a good terminal there. That, along with CBTC, could ramp up service quite a bit.

 

And to the MNRR flamers: since when is MNRR expensive for the city area? What about the MNRR City Ticket which is really cheap?

[bobtehpanda]

Exactly. I never saw what the big deal was historically.

 

I feel like Riverdale is one of those neighborhoods with the outsized ego (Breezy Point would be another one of those). Then again, this forum is the only place I've heard it being referred to as not part of the Bronx.

 

Is it feasible to short-turn the on weekends at 2nd Av?

I'm not sure if VG8 and other Riverdalians will like the idea of that...

 

Anyway, a better terminal could also help for the . 205th was never meant as a full-scale terminal. Extend it to Co-Op City and build a good terminal there. That, along with CBTC, could ramp up service quite a bit.

 

And to the MNRR flamers: since when is MNRR expensive for the city area? What about the MNRR City Ticket which is really cheap?

 

CBTC is good and all, but there are a lot of lines that could use the treatment before we move to the in the Bronx.

[Jsunflyguy]

 

I dont think it may drastically affect service too much with the exception of the dispatching problems that could occur at the 47-50th Street interlocking.

The problem would occur at 42 as getting from the 50th st line from the express, to the local can  be done at the 42nd crossovers. Probably better to keep it express to W4 and cross there (trains punch at 34 or call their letters in the tunnel).

 

If we're not sending the to Brooklyn we should relay it at Essex on the . The has 10+ minute headways on the weekend which is enough time to relay a train with two T/Os. It would make the useful in supplementing/eliminating the narrow-staircase transfer to the .

[Fresh Pond]

The problem would occur at 42 as getting from the 50th st line from the express, to the local can be done at the 42nd crossovers. Probably better to keep it express to W4 and cross there (trains punch at 34 or call their letters in the tunnel).

 

If we're not sending the to Brooklyn we should relay it at Essex on the . The has 10+ minute headways on the weekend which is enough time to relay a train with two T/Os. It would make the useful in supplementing/eliminating the narrow-staircase transfer to the .

There's a bunch of problems with that...

 

1. Anything coming from the Chrystie cut to the Nassau line automatically goes to the northbound local track...for it to back, it would have to go partway up the bridge approach just to double back.

 

2. Essex St can't fit a 600' train.

 

3. Even if they did send a 75' car out there, just for it to turn back around using the bridge approach you would have to stop incoming train traffic because they will sideswipe each other

[Jsunflyguy]

There's a bunch of problems with that...

 

1. Anything coming from the Chrystie cut to the Nassau line automatically goes to the northbound local track...for it to back, it would have to go partway up the bridge approach just to double back.

 

2. Essex St can't fit a 600' train.

 

3. Even if they did send a 75' car out there, just for it to turn back around using the bridge approach you would have to stop incoming train traffic because they will sideswipe each other

1) I did point out that trains had to relay, pointing that out is reduntant, but with 10 minutes to do it that's doable, trains relay in the system on a daily basis. Even if relaying on the bridge is impossible in 10 minutes you can have a second T/O or Switchman jump on and relay back on J3 outside Bowery.

 

2/3) The B being a local could be 480ft for a weekend service, however, now that you mention 75ft I did forget the B is now R68 equipment. So baring swapping the Hippos to the C on the weekends or getting those extra R160 sets off the M, that's a non-starter. Although J trains are timed to within two mintues of each other at Essex so there wouldn't be a big wait IF it could have been done.

[realizm]

Well I do agree with the idea of the utilization of the switches south of 42nd Street, enabling the to switch to the local. For a brief period of time at least according to the out of print 1979 maps, trains were formally designated to the 6th Ave local tracks, at all times, from 57th Street to Coney Island via the BMT West End Line except late nights where it became a shuttle from 36th Street in Brooklyn, or rush hours where it became an express extended to 168th Street in Manhattan.
 
Now what about this talk about the feasibility of running the on weekends to 57th Street/6th Avenue?

What if that's actually implemented? Would it be right to prioritize the needs of Williamsburg residents at the cost of thousands upon thousands of hardworking weekend Bronx riders from several neighborhoods, actually commuting to or from work on weekends ? As it is ridership on the 6th Ave local via the Christie St Cut to the BMT Eastern Division is high (On the weekdays that is) yes, but its nowhere near as congested as the Bronx lines by a long shot.

Can't have both.... or can we? I mean the local tracks cant handle 3 times the traffic in terms of TPH.

Tough call on that one. I'll take a gamble , I'd say let the switch at 42nd Street, and let it run via the to the last stop, 2nd Avenue. Adjustments in the schedules for the and the will have to be made in a way to mitigate problems that might come up with the headways and arrival times. Priority will be given to the at the interlockings for the obvious reason being the IND Queens Blvd Line.

As for the ?

These are all questions we must ask ourselves.

[46Dover]

I would say run the to Brooklyn cause they yard in Coney Island Yard anyway

[Vistausss]

@bobtehpanda: Breezy Point and Riverdale are night and day. Not comparable at all.

 

Btw: when did I say needs to get CBTC before other lines? I just said that CBTC would help ALONG with a new terminal. But given the fact than they won't extend the (D)/build a new terminal anytime soon, CBTC is also out of the question for now IMHO.

[Quill Depot]

The train does get pretty crowded on weekends. I would just increase service, with the extra trains ending at 9th Avenue, since there is not much demand for West End.

[Vistausss]

I can see why you suggest 9th Ave because it has a nice setup, but I'm not sure if it really works out as a terminal as it looks like.

[YankeesPwnMets]

I think that short turned service to 2 Av would be a great idea for weekends. It would decrease crowding on the Concourse line and also help with the 6 Av line. I see plenty of people packed on trains on the weekends and a lot of them get off at 2 Av because the area is a residential neighborhood. train headways on weekends are so shi**y on the weekends anyways so I doubt tracking switching would have a huge impact

[Amtrak7]

Very recently I had to head uptown to the Bronx back to my old neighborhood in the Boogie Down all the way to Fordham Road. It was like a reoccuring nightmare of past experiences.

 

Was this during the GO that turned the at 161 and had everyone take the north? If so, that's a likely explanation for the crowding.

[realizm]

Was this during the GO that turned the at 161 and had everyone take the north? If so, that's a likely explanation for the crowding.

 

No it wasn't.

 

But what I can tell you is that this has been my overall experience when I lived in the Bronx and commuted to Manhattan jumping aboard the at Fordham Road over a course of a year in change. In fact it seems on weekdays even it's better at certain times during the course of the day because of the supplemental service. However on weekends in general, weekend GO or not, the cars heading Manhattan bound during Saturday and Sunday, particularly by 10-11AM, can become crushloaded with only one service. 

 

Major busy points in the system is of course Fordham Road, Tremont Avenue, 167th Street and 161st street - Yankee Stadium

 

Its a similar experience on the PM heading back uptown, from 42nd Street/6th Ave onward during the evenings.