Metro-North passenger train derails in NYC

[rosskin92]

 

Here's a two part letter from USDOT to MTA CEO Pendergast.https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1471267_551237824963177_453320130_n.jpghttps://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1450295_551237871629839_1516422709_n.jpg

Apologies for the links, but this thing is being a major bitch in regards to encoding right now.

 

 

That right there is an "enough is enough" letter. Almost like heads could roll. LOL Not the letter you want to be receiving.

 

Love how it tells them to do more, but the DOT is offering nothing like money (yet)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5c using Tapatalk

[realizm]

 Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bronx/metro-north-engineer-sleep-disorder-article-1.1538717#ixzz2mdZMvvev

 

"Sleep apnea may have caused the locomotive engineer in the deadly Metro-North crash to zone out just before the train tumbled off the tracks.

 

William Rockefeller is expected to undergo an evaluation for the sleep disorder, a process that requires overnight monitoring, a source told the Daily News on Thursday.

 

Sleep apnea causes sufferers to stop breathing repeatedly while they are snoozing — leaving them exhausted when they finally wake up.

 

They often don't realize they have it, the American Sleep Apnea Association said."

This (depending on the findings) could work in Rockefeller's favor if he is indeed diagnosed with sleep apnea. If the Bronx DA presses criminal charges he may end up acquitted of all counts based on this evidence, if this is confirmed. 

[Turbo19]

Yeah, Pendergrast is at the guillotine with this one, no question.

And in the case of sleep apnea, yeah, he would have a case, but could there be a counter suit filed with the MTA for allowing this? Time will only tell. This is getting interesting indeed.

[nostalgia]

Yeah, Pendergrast is at the guillotine with this one, no question.

Permut is at the guillotine. Pendergast became chief a few months ago. Permut has been MN president for

years.

[Turbo19]

Permut is at the guillotine. Pendergast became chief a few months ago. Permut has been MN president for

years.

Never thought of it like that.

 

With that said I'm certain the blame game will comince.

[Burrstone]

Love how it tells them to do more, but the DOT is offering nothing like money (yet)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 5c using Tapatalk

 

Why would the DOT be offering them more money to get their shit together? lol

[Burrstone]

 

 Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bronx/metro-north-engineer-sleep-disorder-article-1.1538717#ixzz2mdZMvvev

 

"Sleep apnea may have caused the locomotive engineer in the deadly Metro-North crash to zone out just before the train tumbled off the tracks.

 

William Rockefeller is expected to undergo an evaluation for the sleep disorder, a process that requires overnight monitoring, a source told the Daily News on Thursday.

 

Sleep apnea causes sufferers to stop breathing repeatedly while they are snoozing — leaving them exhausted when they finally wake up.

 

They often don't realize they have it, the American Sleep Apnea Association said."

This (depending on the findings) could work in Rockefeller's favor if he is indeed diagnosed with sleep apnea. If the Bronx DA presses criminal charges he may end up acquitted of all counts based on this evidence, if this is confirmed. 

 

 

 

LOL anything to cover his ass at this point, first it was highway hypnosis didn't gain him enough sympathy or cover up his liability for the 4 people who died ...  Did sleep apnea cause him to cause him to do 82 in a 70?  Who's doctors are conducting the tests?  

 

Realizm, do you know of any cases (even in truck and bus accidents) where the operator got "off the hook" for falling asleep bc of sleep apnea?  It'll be interesting because it is a medical condition but not like a heart attack that made him instantly pass out at the wheel. While sleep apnea may have made him exhausted he didn't develop the condition over night, he presumably had the condition and worked before without falling asleep...

 

Do engineers have to have a physical every year or two?  Would the doctor of any signs of sleep apnea? 

[nostalgia]

Do engineers have to have a physical every year or two?  Would the doctor of any signs of sleep apnea?

I think there's an annual physical as well as annual test on the operating rules. I doubt sleep apnea would

up in blood work.

[Burrstone]

I think there's an annual physical as well as annual test on the operating rules. I doubt sleep apnea would

up in blood work.

 

LOL I wasn't expecting sleep apnea to show up in bloodwork but doctors doing the physical could have signs of suspecting sleep apnea and could/would order follow up testing.

 

IMHO testing for sleep apnea should be required yearly for all commercial drivers, train operators, and pilots.

 

FYI truck drivers are very resistant to getting tested for sleep apnea because if they are diagnosed with the condition they cannot be hired for a year, I forget if it was because of a DOT restriction or that no carriers insurance would insure them until a year after being diagnosed.

[nostalgia]

LOL I wasn't expecting sleep apnea to show up in bloodwork but doctors doing the physical could have signs of suspecting sleep apnea and could/would order follow up testing.

Then I guess physicals would have to be scheduled for 5 AM.

[realizm]

LOL anything to cover his ass at this point, first it was highway hypnosis didn't gain him enough sympathy or cover up his liability for the 4 people who died ...  Did sleep apnea cause him to cause him to do 82 in a 70?  Who's doctors are conducting the tests?  

 

Realizm, do you know of any cases (even in truck and bus accidents) where the operator got "off the hook" for falling asleep bc of sleep apnea?  It'll be interesting because it is a medical condition but not like a heart attack that made him instantly pass out at the wheel. While sleep apnea may have made him exhausted he didn't develop the condition over night, he presumably had the condition and worked before without falling asleep...

 

Do engineers have to have a physical every year or two?  Would the doctor of any signs of sleep apnea?

Yeah the 2011 Chinatown bus driver accident, off the top of my head. The B/O was acquitted on all counts of manslaughter under the premise that being sleep deprived was not a crime. The jury went in his favor with his defense testimony.

[Burrstone]

Then I guess physicals would have to be scheduled for 5 AM.

 

Don't be ridiculous!

 

Yeah the 2011 Chinatown bus driver accident, off the top of my head. The B/O was acquitted on all counts of manslaughter under the premise that being sleep deprived was not a crime. The jury went in his favor with his defense testimony.

 

I was asking if you knew of any cases examples were sleep apnea was a defense to manslaughter...  In what accident did a jury find that the premise of being sleep deprived was a defense was not a crime?  

[realizm]

Don't be ridiculous!

 

 

I was asking if you knew of any cases examples were sleep apnea was a defense to manslaughter...  In what accident did a jury find that the premise of being sleep deprived was a defense was not a crime?

 

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/bus-driver-not-guilty-manslaughter-ny-crash-164530426.html

 

 

NEW YORK (AP) — A tour bus driver who prosecutors said was all but asleep at the wheel was acquitted Friday of manslaughter and negligent homicide in a crash last year that killed 15 gamblers on their way from a Connecticut casino to New York City.

 

Ophadell Williams was found guilty on one count of aggravated unlicensed driving.

 

Williams wept and covered his face with his hands as the verdict was read. On the count which he was found guilty, the judge sentenced him to 30 days in prison, which he has served. He also was ordered to pay a fee of $500.

 

This is not a case of sleep apnea but general sleep deprivation behind the wheel. He was acquitted on all felony counts of manslaughter. But as he wept he knew he can never work as a B/O ever again. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Sleep apnea is tough to pick up in a yearly physical. It's the kind of thing that your spouse will notice and tell you about (like with snoring), but if you live alone, you may not notice. You'd probably feel tired a lot of the time, but it's easy to assume that is due to having a hard job or stress or whatever. Most doctors would not pick it up, unfortunately, and the sleep tests are really expensive, so don't expect them to become part of any routine check up. 

 

Overweight people tend to have sleep apnea, and the picture I saw of Rockefeller didn't make him look obese, but not particularly thin either. 

 

I think B/O's, T/O's, and drivers in general need to be made aware of the dangers of sleep apnea so they hopefully pick up on their symptoms, but as was pointed out above, drivers will be resistant to that.

[Burrstone]

I see what you are saying just sleep deprivation in general...  The thing is the prosecution couldn't prove the accident was caused by Williams falling asleep at the wheel, he claimed the accident was caused by him swerving to avoid a tractor trailer that cut him off, the prosecution couldn't  prove he was asleep.  You're right just being "sleep deprived" does not automatically make someone negligent as the law states drivers must have a certain amount of hours off not that a driver must have a certain of sleep before driving again.  If you fall asleep at the wheel (as a commercial driver) you're probably going to be charged with manslaughter, whether the prosecution can prove you fell asleep or if a jury will convict is up in the air at that point.

 

 

Most doctors would not pick it up, unfortunately, and the sleep tests are really expensive, so don't expect them to become part of any routine check up. 

 

If sleep apnea is Rockerfeller's "get out of jail free card" I expect and will bet money on the fact that in the next ten years a test for sleep apnea becomes a yearly occurrence for those who operate buses/planes/trains.   Schumer already in a press conference that tragedies like this create laws that him and other senators write, pointing to the plane crash in Buffalo that he and other senators created laws for greater training for regional/feeder pilots and put stricter rules into effect regarding the hours those pilots may work.  Schumer and his buddies are foaming at the mouth to write laws regarding this tragedy so they can pat themselves on the back later.

 

 

I think B/O's, T/O's, and drivers in general need to be made aware of the dangers of sleep apnea so they hopefully pick up on their symptoms, but as was pointed out above, drivers will be resistant to that.

 

IMHO it is a huge problem and some fear being out of work for a year...  Perhaps the state/federal government could guarantee that those diagnosed could received disability or a guaranteed living wage for a year for those diagnosed...?

[realizm]

 

I think B/O's, T/O's, and drivers in general need to be made aware of the dangers of sleep apnea so they hopefully pick up on their symptoms, but as was pointed out above, drivers will be resistant to that.

 

The T/Os, C/Rs and B/Os on this site in NYC Transit from the employment discussion thread emphasized the need for proper sleep and rest between shifts so many times as a computer tech in the private sector of the market I have lost count, dude. They are on the money on encouraging applicants and new recruits to adjust there schedules and living arrangements accordingly, almost constantly. 

[tkx2510]

According to the news. The train enginer fell nooded off. When he woke up and apply the brakes too while going 80 miles per hour.

[realizm]

And as we are reading the NTSB wants to rule out sleep disorders as the cause for this.

[Burrstone]

The T/Os, C/Rs and B/Os on this site in NYC Transit from the employment discussion thread emphasized the need for proper sleep and rest between shifts so many times as a computer tech in the private sector of the market I have lost count, dude. They are on the money on encouraging applicants and new recruits to adjust there schedules and living arrangements accordingly, almost constantly. 

 

 

I also preach and practice the importance of being well rested and eating well, my work involves hours of highway driving in a row many times after a flight then hourish ride from the airport to wherever...  I really do feel it is easier said than done, especially with highway driving (which I'd compare to what a train operator would see, lots of nothing), sometimes I'd be delivering school buses in the summer with no a/c which no matter how well rested would fatigue me after an hour or two...  The body wants to be active and the brain wants to be stimulated, jobs like driving and operating a train don't make the body and makes it want to enter that "highway hypnosis" state.  It is very easy stress being well rested, BUT the body will still get fatigued, it's human nature.  The hard part comes in catching it, because often times it's too late.  They suggest once you "feel" fatigued, to stop and get a cup of coffee not for the caffeine but to get you out and moving.  If you're driving a bus with people they teach a driver feeling fatigued to "get out and check the tires."  When delivering vehicles I'd stop once every couple of hours and park a good distance from the rest area so I'd have to walk back and fourth.  

[nostalgia]

Schumer and his buddies are foaming at the mouth to write laws regarding this tragedy so they can pat themselveson the back later.

Why is it "bad" if laws can prevent similar tragedies?

[Burrstone]

Why is it "bad" if laws can prevent similar tragedies?

 

Where did I say it was bad?  I'm assuming you're talking to me as you quoted my post and put the word "bad" in quotes, but I never said it was bad...  

[nostalgia]

Where did I say it was bad?  I'm assuming you're talking to me as you quoted my post and put the word "bad" in quotes, but I never said it was bad...

I found this in your message:

 

"Schumer already in a press conference that tragedies like this create laws that him and other senators write, pointing to the plane crash in Buffalo that he and other senators created laws for greater training for regional/feeder pilots and put stricter rules into effect regarding the hours those pilots may work. Schumer and his buddies are foaming at the mouth to write laws regarding this tragedy so they can pat themselves on the back later."

 

That didn't sound complimentary.

[Burrstone]

I found this in your message:

 

"Schumer already in a press conference that tragedies like this create laws that him and other senators write, pointing to the plane crash in Buffalo that he and other senators created laws for greater training for regional/feeder pilots and put stricter rules into effect regarding the hours those pilots may work. Schumer and his buddies are foaming at the mouth to write laws regarding this tragedy so they can pat themselves on the back later."

 

That didn't sound complimentary.

 

Your opinion, maybe not complimentary but I def didn't say it was a "bad" thing.  Next... 

[nostalgia]

Your opinion, maybe not complimentary but I def didn't say it was a "bad" thing.  Next...

The sarcastic tone of your message speaks volumes even though the word "bad" wasn't written.

[lirr42]

If you really knew what you were looking for you could probably pick up on some signs of sleep disorders during an exam, but it would be pretty difficult (especially on adults when the signs are less pronounced) if you weren't really looking for it (and when you're a railroad doctor doing lots and lots of physicals, it's tough to catch everything).  But for the most part, it's pretty tough to pick a guy out of a lineup and say "he has a sleep disorder."  If you don't speak up about not being able to sleep well at night or things like that, chances are it will slip by.