Metro-North passenger train derails in NYC

[rosskin92]

It isn't about entitlement.  It's about the fact that the majority of New Yorkers don't have cars and rely on public transportation to get around.  Transportation is a MUST here in NYC, not something that we should be "grateful" for because if it didn't exist no one would be able to get around because there would simply be too much traffic.  Knowing this therefore, it is imperative that the transportation here is on point, period.  No ifs ands or buts or excuses.

 

So? If you want if perfect, and with a low fare, then pay up with taxes or fight for subsidies.

[Quill Depot]

By the way, its not the brakes. When these air brakes malfunction, they are designed to halt the train to a stop.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So? If you want if perfect, and with a low fare, then pay up with taxes or fight for subsidies.

New York has some of the highest taxes in the country, so we pay our fair share.  Thank you.

 

 

Don't argue with VG8. He doesn't sympathise till it happens to him.

Til what happens to me?? 

[realizm]

It isn't about entitlement.  It's about the fact that the majority of New Yorkers don't have cars and rely on public transportation to get around.  Transportation is a MUST here in NYC, not something that we should be "grateful" for because if it didn't exist no one would be able to get around because there would simply be too much traffic.  Knowing this therefore, it is imperative that the transportation here is on point, period.  No ifs ands or buts or excuses.

I told you already many times in many discussions, let me say it again: Its New York State, ultimately that must get its act together. The MTA is a public benefits corperation partially funded by NYS. Albany in the past has stole millions of dollars from the MTA, literally, leading to budget cuts ridiculous. That is one of the problems. Funding!

[rosskin92]

I told you already many times in many discussions, let me say it again: Its New York State, ultimately that must get its act together. The MTA is a public benefits corperation partially funded by NYS. Albany in the past has stole millions of dollars from the MTA, literally, leading to budget cuts ridiculous. That is one of the problems. Funding!

 

People dont get this. It is so true. It happens at a lesser rate here though but it happens. Universities are where it happens too.

[DJ MC]

I told you already many times in many discussions, let me say it again: Its New York State, ultimately that must get its act together. The MTA is a public benefits corperation partially funded by NYS. Albany in the past has stole millions of dollars from the MTA, literally, leading to budget cuts ridiculous. That is one of the problems. Funding!

 

On top of that the MTA is billions of dollars in debt. 

[nostalgia]

On top of that the MTA is billions of dollars in debt.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2013/09/8534111/dinapoli-mta-financial-outlook-much-improved

[itmaybeokay]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the diesel engine didn't explode. There was a horrible collision in 1996 on the CSX main line between Washington, DC and Cumberland. A MARC train heading eastbound to Washington collided head on with an Amtrak train heading westbound on the same track. The MARC train should have received an approach signal to stop at the next interlocking so that the Amtrak train could cross over to the westbound track. An old F40 was on the point and exploded when struck by the MARC train. The second engine was a Genesis engine but not yet equipped with cab signals. There aren't cab signals on the CSX line but there are on the Conrail Fort Wayne Line so the Genesis engine had to trail. Genesis engines have their fuel tanks better protected than F40s.

 

The NTSB report is here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/1997/silver_spring_md/index.html

 

It is very hard to get diesel fuel to explode, much harder than gasoline at least. You really need a direct impact on the fuel tank for this to happen. 

 

 

I don't see how it's that impractical.  Instead of having everyone pile on the one and having to provide all of those shuttles, have the crowds dispersed accordingly.  Some on the express bus, some on the and some of the Harlem Line.  I wrote a few politicians suggesting that Metro-North cross honor their tickets for people in Riverdale and allow them to use the express bus.  That would free up space on shuttles to allow them to either serve the Harlem line or the line.  I had a tutoring session after work last night and the train was packed to the rafters.  Tried getting on at Columbus Circle. I let three trains go by before I finally could get on one.

 

The trains at columbus circle were FINE. I'll take photos tonight on my way home. 

[Burrstone]

Labor laws are in place to protect the employees under certain circumstances despite the fact that this is a fire at will state. Employers know that obviously if they fire employees it will be at a legalistic and monetary cost to them as the NYDOL will certainly intervene and force the employer to compensate their employees for damages and lost wages.

 

Yes some people can end up fired but that will most likely be out of employer retaliation which is illegal.

 

Management and HR working in most companies/organizations know exactly what they are doing and are not going to get themselves in trouble with the Dept of labor...  In many instances if someone is fired they aren't going to be told why, the person can file a grievance with the Dept of Labor (which would be the only way to find out the reason for which they were fired) but the person who was fired probably will not like the reason they were fired because management or HR will select one of any thousands of  legal reasons to fire them.  This comes from a conversation I had with someone who had been doing this for 40+ years...

 

Basically any of us can be fired at anytime for anything and never know the reason unless we peruse it and we'd just be waiting our time because the reason given to the Dept of Labor was something 100% legal...

 

Firing someone who is continually late is 100% reason to fire them and legal, is the fact that someone takes public transportation and that being the reason they are late discrimination?  What about the people who drive and are late?  We couldn't now public transit riders to be late but discrimate against those who drive by firing them of they are late...  So we going to allow a society that is allowed to be late for work?  Really?  

 

but....

 

I don't think you could be fired for being late for work if you're mode of transportation is stuck for some reason, especially if you call ahead and let employer know your current situation enroute

 

This is a reason employers will not hire those who commute on MetroNorth or the LIRR...  In fact I over heard someone on the train during the lastest round of LIRR goofs saying his employer will no longer interview people from Long Island "until the LIRR gets their shit together, because he has a business to run and needs his people in the office not hours late commuting or leaving early so they can get home."

[QM1to6Ave]

Getting back on topic, the NTSB is now reporting that the brakes were fine and the engineer has admitted "nodding out" for what he calls a brief moment. It is sounding more and more like human operator error now.The quote from Rockeffeler's friend is not comforting in the least:

“He zoned out. He had one of those where, ‘Whoa,’ you know, like you drive your car,” said Bottalico, chief of the Association of Commuter Rail Employees. 

 

I can see how operating a train in the early morning with little sunlight can lead to that zoned out feeling, but it's odd since this operator has so much experience on the line, you are often able to auotomatically make the necesary adjustment to speed, as if your body is on auto pilot.

 

There also was mention of some sort of speed alarm going off in the cab that snapped the operator back to consciousness. Anyone know what that would be?

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/03/mnr-engineer-zoned-out-prior-to-deadly-crash-according-to-reports/

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

The trains at columbus circle were FINE.

I don't know what exactly that means...

[nostalgia]

Getting back on topic, the NTSB is now reporting that the brakes were fine and the engineer has admitted "nodding out" for what he calls a brief moment. It is sounding more and more like human operator error now.The quote from Rockeffeler's friend is not comforting in the least:

“He zoned out. He had one of those where, ‘Whoa,’ you know, like you drive your car,” said Bottalico, chief of the Association of Commuter Rail Employees. 

 

I can see how operating a train in the early morning with little sunlight can lead to that zoned out feeling, but it's odd since this operator has so much experience on the line, you are often able to auotomatically make the necesary adjustment to speed, as if your body is on auto pilot.

 

There also was mention of some sort of speed alarm going off in the cab that snapped the operator back to consciousness. Anyone know what that would be?

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/03/mnr-engineer-zoned-out-prior-to-deadly-crash-according-to-reports/

I didn't read anything in the article about a speed alarm going off. He was standing on the deadman's pedal. (I erroneously thought the equipment had an alerter.)

[Mtatransit]

It a really beautiful scene on a Sunday morning, where the sun comes up shining on the water and and the beautiful picture of the Hudson river. THEN this horrific unbelievable movie like scene came. Anyways it is an really beautiful scene and the operator may want to sleep.

[realizm]

Management and HR working in most companies/organizations know exactly what they are doing and are not going to get themselves in trouble with the Dept of labor...  In many instances if someone is fired they aren't going to be told why, the person can file a grievance with the Dept of Labor (which would be the only way to find out the reason for which they were fired) but the person who was fired probably will not like the reason they were fired because management or HR will select one of any thousands of  legal reasons to fire them.  This comes from a conversation I had with someone who had been doing this for 40+ years...

 

Basically any of us can be fired at anytime for anything and never know the reason unless we peruse it and we'd just be waiting our time because the reason given to the Dept of Labor was something 100% legal...

 

Firing someone who is continually late is 100% reason to fire them and legal, is the fact that someone takes public transportation and that being the reason they are late discrimination?  What about the people who drive and are late?  We couldn't now public transit riders to be late but discrimate against those who drive by firing them of they are late...  So we going to allow a society that is allowed to be late for work?  Really?  

 

but....

 

 

This is a reason employers will not hire those who commute on MetroNorth or the LIRR...  In fact I over heard someone on the train during the lastest round of LIRR goofs saying his employer will no longer interview people from Long Island "until the LIRR gets their shit together, because he has a business to run and needs his people in the office not hours late commuting or leaving early so they can get home."

Exactly my thoughts. Really I can't add further to this, thats exactly what I was actually told myself by colleagues.

[itmaybeokay]

NY1 and WSJ is reporting that the Hudson line will be resuming half it's normal peak service tomorrow. 

 

The SIX normally scheduled peak trains would be reduced to THREE. 

 

VG8: I guess Cuomo must have gotten off his butt when he got your letter. Once he realized that "Riverdalians" were inconvenienced by a tragedy, he personally operated a backhoe and laid new tracks by hand, slowing down the passage of time with reference to himself by means of a sacred amulet passed to him personally by Benny Hill in order to complete the work by wednesday morning.

 

In a related story. I really find it hard to believe that a lack of 6 peak hour metro north trains would pack the 1 train to the rafters. The 1 line has easily 10 times the capacity (in terms of trains that run, not trains that can run) of the hudson line, and they added trains 

[Turbo19]

With reports of the engineer claiming his spaced out I must say he is really digging a hole for himself.

I can't say I feel any remorse.

[realizm]

It a really beautiful scene on a Sunday morning, where the sun comes up shining on the water and and the beautiful picture of the Hudson river. THEN this horrific unbelievable movie like scene came. Anyways it is an really beautiful scene and the operator may want to sleep.

You bring up a vital point right there because fatigue in general can be as dangerous as drunk driving behind the wheel of your car. You can get yourself killed in a motor accident if you doze off sleeping behind the wheel.

 

In fact now that its coming to mind that as far as rapid/surface transit employees, they constantly warn that sleep deprivation is a very dangerous situation to be in if a T/O or a B/O either way, on the clock which I can totally see clearly. I'm sure it applies to railroad engineers as a crystal clear parallel as much as it applies to the individual motorist in general hitting the highway.

 

General concept indeed. Make sure you get your sleep.

[QM1to6Ave]

I didn't read anything in the article about a speed alarm going off. He was standing on the deadman's pedal. (I erroneously thought the equipment had an alerter.)

That part was in a different article I didn't post...Daily News perhaps? Could have been a reporting error. 

[realizm]

That part was in a different article I didn't post...Daily News perhaps? Could have been a reporting error.

Could be. They erroneously stated that the MTA Police was doing a criminal investigation when in fact it was NYPD detectives with the assist from the Bronx district attorney in case criminal charges are made. I've caught on to that typo and mentioning it now.

[nostalgia]

I found this on the MTA website:

 

Hudson Line Update:

 

Regular Hudson Line Service Returns Wed., Dec. 4:

 

For Wednesday, December 4, Metro-North will operate more than 98% of regular Hudson Line service due to one track being returned to service following the train derailment in the vicinity of Spuyten Duyvil. Some trains will be canceled or combined. Customers should expect scattered delays of up to 15 minutes due to limited track capacity in this area and crowded conditions during peak periods. See full service details at http://bit.ly/1g3NQQs

 

 

Can this be correct? They can run 98% of regular service with ONLY one track. OR does it mean they can run 98% of the morning rush INBOUND only?

[Turbo19]

I found this on the MTA website:

 

Hudson Line Update:

 

Regular Hudson Line Service Returns Wed., Dec. 4:

 

For Wednesday, December 4, Metro-North will operate more than 98% of regular Hudson Line service due to one track being returned to service following the train derailment in the vicinity of Spuyten Duyvil. Some trains will be canceled or combined. Customers should expect scattered delays of up to 15 minutes due to limited track capacity in this area and crowded conditions during peak periods. See full service details at http://bit.ly/1g3NQQs

 

 

Can this be correct? They can run 98% of regular service with ONLY one track. OR does it mean they can run 98% of the morning rush INBOUND only?

It seems feasible from the looks of it, as it appears to by only the immediate area of the crash is affected. Sure they'll be delays, but it's better than the options available right now.

[realizm]

Yeah I agree, from how the update was written I got the impression that it was only inbound service only, or else PM departure times would also have been mentioned as well.

[narig]

realism.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigates transportation accidents. The NTSB makes recommendations. Sometimes they make STRONG recommendations.

The NTSB does not make rules or laws and is not in the enforcement business. The worst thing you can do in an NTSB safety investigation is try to stonewall or impede the investigation. In those circumstances they have in the past and do refer matters to the FBI and the US Attorney. Then it becomes an "Obstruction of Justice" matter.

Testimony given during a NTSB investigation is immune from court proceedings. And the NTSB report itself may not be quoted or used during a trial. If criminal matters are uncovered during an investigation the prosecuting authorities (US Attorney or State Attorney General) has to go and gather the evidence themselves. In civil litigation same applies, ie the plaintiffs attorneys have to do their own investigating. This does not prevent these same attorneys from reading the reports and using them as a road map in discovery or investigation.

NTSB basically just wants the facts just the facts. And they have the big stick of the federal government behind them. The result is not only understanding an accident but also what may have led to the accident. IE things that caused an engineer, pilot, driver or captain to make bad choices. Or in other incidents things that caused the incident to become something more serious.

 

Rgds IGN

[alberchico]

With reports of the engineer claiming his spaced out I must say he is really digging a hole for himself.

 

I can't say I feel any remorse.

If the man had a medical condition that prompted feelings of fatigue or drowsiness could that get him off the hook ?

[ttcsubwayfan]

There is never a good time in your book to criticize the ...

 

Never the right time to criticize the MTA? I thought there was never a right time to complain about comfort???

 

Doesn't matter because there's never a right time to complain about comfort.  How dare me do such a thing... I applaud the guy that said his commute was hell on earth, as he was 3 hours late for work.  

 

 

LOL... That's interesting to say the least... They must be on something to actually like those outdated 18th century bohemians.

 

And here we go again with the personal attacks against those who DARE to have a different opinion from you... must be a day that ends with "Y".

 

Calling them "bohemians" is a new one, too. Where in the hell did you get that one from?