theaveragejoe Posted July 22, 2014 Share #26 Posted July 22, 2014 Not enough Dual Modes to spread out. True as dont they run two on each train. (one on each end) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted July 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted July 22, 2014 True as dont they run two on each train. (one on each end) I thought a cab car was on one end. Two diesels would be needed if a cab car wasn't available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted July 22, 2014 Share #28 Posted July 22, 2014 I thought a cab car was on one end. Two diesels would be needed if a cab car wasn't available. LIRR always ran dual modes one on each end to make sure the trains did not stall out with the large gaps in the 3rd rail with all the switches in and around Penn Station and Jamaica station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted July 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted July 22, 2014 LIRR always ran dual modes one on each end to make sure the trains did not stall out with the large gaps in the 3rd rail with all the switches in and around Penn Station and Jamaica station. That's strange. Metro North has the same situation at GCT and they use only one dual mode engine on the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted July 23, 2014 Share #30 Posted July 23, 2014 That's strange. Metro North has the same situation at GCT and they use only one dual mode engine on the train. IIRC the gaps are not as big in the 3rd rail into GCT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted July 23, 2014 Share #31 Posted July 23, 2014 That's strange. Metro North has the same situation at GCT and they use only one dual mode engine on the train.Amtrak makes the LIRR put a DM on both ends of the train. MN owns the tracks into GCT so they can do whatever they want with there DM's. Inbound they don't even switch to E mode until the cab car makes the platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSRR Posted August 7, 2014 Share #32 Posted August 7, 2014 How feasible is it for MNR to run caternary into Grand Central? if they can do that then the M8's can have their third rail shoes removed allowing them to run into penn and into gc without worrying about over and under third rail incompatibility. they would have to install caternary on more in Penn where the LIRR platforms, but I think that would be less complicated and less costly than buying all new equipment that's compatible with lirr and mnr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DailyDose Posted August 7, 2014 Share #33 Posted August 7, 2014 How feasible is it for MNR to run caternary into Grand Central? if they can do that then the M8's can have their third rail shoes removed allowing them to run into penn and into gc without worrying about over and under third rail incompatibility. they would have to install caternary on more in Penn where the LIRR platforms, but I think that would be less complicated and less costly than buying all new equipment that's compatible with lirr and mnr MNR will never. EVER. Run trains to Penn. End of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted August 7, 2014 Share #34 Posted August 7, 2014 How feasible is it for MNR to run caternary into Grand Central? if they can do that then the M8's can have their third rail shoes removed allowing them to run into penn and into gc without worrying about over and under third rail incompatibility. they would have to install caternary on more in Penn where the LIRR platforms, but I think that would be less complicated and less costly than buying all new equipment that's compatible with lirr and mnr There's no clearance in the Park Ave tunnels for overhead wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR 154 Posted August 7, 2014 Share #35 Posted August 7, 2014 MNR will never. EVER. Run trains to Penn. End of discussion. I wouldn't say never, but it's a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckie Posted August 7, 2014 Share #36 Posted August 7, 2014 Never say never. I'm not going to say MNR to Penn will happen but there have been talks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 7, 2014 Share #37 Posted August 7, 2014 Mr. Daily Dose should take a ride on the Football "Train to the Game" service. Operated by Metro-North. Stops at Penn station. Statment torpedoed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted August 8, 2014 Share #38 Posted August 8, 2014 Mr. Daily Dose should take a ride on the Football "Train to the Game" service. Operated by Metro-North. Stops at Penn station. Statment torpedoed. BUT NJT equipment is used, not MN equipment. Statement resurrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 9, 2014 Share #39 Posted August 9, 2014 Resurrection prevented, the "but" is meaningless. it's still an MNR train operated by MNR crews and is such until it gets to Penn Station. Borrowing equipment shouldn't matter. Amtrak borrowes NJT equipment every year around Thanksgiving, but no one says it's an NJT train running to Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 9, 2014 Share #40 Posted August 9, 2014 How feasible is it for MNR to run caternary into Grand Central? if they can do that then the M8's can have their third rail shoes removed allowing them to run into penn and into gc without worrying about over and under third rail incompatibility. they would have to install caternary on more in Penn where the LIRR platforms, but I think that would be less complicated and less costly than buying all new equipment that's compatible with lirr and mnr The M8s can run on both over-running and under-running 3rd rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted August 10, 2014 Share #41 Posted August 10, 2014 The M8s can run on both over-running and under-running 3rd rail I don't think they can be configured to run over both at the same time, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR 154 Posted August 10, 2014 Share #42 Posted August 10, 2014 Amtrak makes the LIRR put a DM on both ends of the train. MN owns the tracks into GCT so they can do whatever they want with there DM's. Inbound they don't even switch to E mode until the cab car makes the platform. No it's not really Amtrak, it's more the gaping issues from Penn to WSY. I've seen dual modes switch right to diesel from electric before leaving Penn to the yard . Gaping there is tricky and that's why most experience Engineers would be on that run. Not all Engineers are fans in running diesel jobs especially ones that deadhead to WSY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSRR Posted August 10, 2014 Share #43 Posted August 10, 2014 There's no clearance in the Park Ave tunnels for overhead wire. I know the park ave tunnels are tight, is the clearance less than that of the B&P tunnels that amtrak uses to enter baltimore? those tunnels are scarily small. The M8s can run on both over-running and under-running 3rd rail That capability I had no idea of. I know that the M9's are supposed to be compatible. that's good to know. Mr. Daily Dose should take a ride on the Football "Train to the Game" service. Operated by Metro-North. Stops at Penn station. Statment torpedoed. I completely forgot about the Train to the Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokecrazy Posted August 11, 2014 Share #44 Posted August 11, 2014 I know the park ave tunnels are tight, is the clearance less than that of the B&P tunnels that amtrak uses to enter baltimore? those tunnels are scarily small. That capability I had no idea of. I know that the M9's are supposed to be compatible. that's good to know. I completely forgot about the Train to the Game. There are pictures of said train on subchat posted by trainmanpaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted August 11, 2014 Share #45 Posted August 11, 2014 I don't think they can be configured to run over both at the same time, though... Yes they can... it's a specially designed shoe for that specific purpose. However, before the M8s can run into penn, the third rail needs to be extended up north of the phase gap in the catenary just north of where New Haven 1 and 2 diverge out of Harold Interlocking. The reason being that the catenary supply south of that gap is 25 cycle, and the M8s can only run on 60 cycle when drawing power from the catenary. Basically, don't expect Metro-North New Haven Line Penn service anytime before the East Side Access is completed (construction in harold is SCHEDULED to be done some time in 2020), because there is enough track reconfiguration going on in the interlocking now for them to even entertain the idea of extending third rail up beyond the 25hz/60hz boundary just for Metro-North service into Penn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nostalgia Posted August 11, 2014 Share #46 Posted August 11, 2014 Yes they can... it's a specially designed shoe for that specific purpose. However, before the M8s can run into penn, the third rail needs to be extended up north of the phase gap in the catenary just north of where New Haven 1 and 2 diverge out of Harold Interlocking. The reason being that the catenary supply south of that gap is 25 cycle, and the M8s can only run on 60 cycle when drawing power from the catenary. Basically, don't expect Metro-North New Haven Line Penn service anytime before the East Side Access is completed (construction in harold is SCHEDULED to be done some time in 2020), because there is enough track reconfiguration going on in the interlocking now for them to even entertain the idea of extending third rail up beyond the 25hz/60hz boundary just for Metro-North service into Penn. Amtrak motors has a switch to adjust for the change. I guess M8s would need this switch installed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSRR Posted August 12, 2014 Share #47 Posted August 12, 2014 Amtrak motors has a switch to adjust for the change. I guess M8s would need this switch installed as well. That would be really short sighted of the MTA of purchasing eqiupment that can't be used a couple of miles down the track, but that wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. It's correct that Amtrak's equipment can run on both 25 and 60 hz. I assumed (wrongly) that the M8 could do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan Railer Posted August 12, 2014 Share #48 Posted August 12, 2014 Amtrak motors has a switch to adjust for the change. I guess M8s would need this switch installed as well. I am under the impression that the more voltages a transformer is capable of running under, the heavier it is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason why the M8 isn't capable of running under 25 cycle power is due to weight restriction imposed on axle load... The M8 is already capable of running under 750 volts DC, 25 kV @ 60 cycle, and 12.5 kV @ 60 cycle, and is quite heavy as it is; when they were designed, I guess they didn't see a reason to include the capability to run under 25 cycle catenary, so rather than deal with the weight issue, they left that capability out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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