NYPD officer caught on tape smashing alleged fare beater in head with baton at Bklyn train station

[Brooklyn]

That's the whole point... You don't post here often and it seems as if when you do it's about me.  You find my posts offensive... Well that's your problem, not mine, and it's clear that you just can't get over it.  We haven't been discussing very controversial topics of late anyway aside from this one, so spare me with the you're so butt hurt about my "insulting" posts.

I like how you just pick and choose which things you respond to.

 

Still waiting for your evidence of personal attack.

 

Still waiting for your evidence of "coincidence". Again, very hard to avoid you when you have 20,000 posts--VERY HARD.

 

I don't know what you mean by "get over it".

 

If you don't like being challenged for your views, oh well. You make a post, you get responded to. That's how these things work.

 

Again, please don't act like you have not heard these things before.

 

Have a good day.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I like how you just pick and choose which things you respond to.

 

Still waiting for your evidence of personal attack.

 

Still waiting for your evidence of "coincidence". Again, very hard to avoid you when you have 20,000 posts--VERY HARD.

 

I don't know what you mean by "get over it".

 

If you don't like being challenged for your views, oh well. You make a post, you get responded to. That's how these things work.

 

Again, please don't act like you have not heard these things before.

 

Have a good day.

Being challenged on my views is perfectly fine.  What you try to do is different.  You try to play the let's gang up on VG8 BS because you don't like my point of view.  It's perfectly fine to disagree and attack my comments, but you attempt to engage other members to try to gang up on me as a way of "shaming me" for having a view point that differs from yours.  That is childish and immature.  We have all been discussing this without attacking one another aside from you.

[itmaybeokay]

This kind of thinking is the problem in America today: "He didn't hurt anyone." "It's a minor crime."

 

These sorts of statements I have a humongous problem with. A law was violated. It's theft. Stealing a bunch of groceries from the corner store, picking someone's pocket, hopping a turnstile - THESE ARE ALL THEFT. It's against the law to do it, and no crime is victimless.

 

Because of farebeats, the MTA loses tens of millions of dollars per year

 

...

 

But those with the agenda of using these isolated incidents (and yes in a city of 8 million people....they are isolated) as fodder to undermine the respect, credibility, and authority of the NYPD have an agenda of lawlessness in mind, and if it comes to fruition, it will be FAR WORSE than anything in our lifetimes.

 

At no point, at any time did I defend the alleged perpetrator. If he did indeed evade the fare, he deserved to be punished - and the law prescribes that punishment to be a fine. Fare evasion raises the cost of my metrocard and everyone else.s and I do not in any way condone it. If he resisted being detained in connection with his alleged fare evasion, then the officer may have even been justified in escalating to force. 

 

In fact, this entire response puzzles me because I didn't defend the perpetrator or impugn the officer - in fact, I went out of my way to say that the real defining moment of the confrontation happened before the start of the video, and as such, is unknown to me - I responded to a particular comment that claimed the officer was just "putting him in his place". 

 

 

 

itmaybeokay is one of those the cops are animals types until he needs the cops to come to his aid...   I for the most part am pro-cop save the few pigs like this particular cop.

 

Oh boy howdy you've got me all figured out. I hate cops so much, that's why I spend so much of my free time listening to a police scanner. 

 

I'm not in any way against police or policing. I take issue with violence, in any situation, and *gasp* with people who break the rule of law toward the detriment of others.

 

A fare beater certainly breaks the law toward the detriment of others, as each of our pockets is picked to pay for his ride. So does a police officer who uses violence when it's not absolutely required. So does the person who takes up three seats on the train. So does the police officer who arrests an actually law-abiding musician.

 

I don't know what happened in this particular situation prior to the video. If the perp was resisting arrest then yes - that actually does merit an escalation to violence. I did see him try to flee in the video, but if he just started getting clubbed out of nowhere that's a pretty natural reaction that's hard to squelch even in the face of an authority figure. So I don't know if the officer was justified in his use of force, and I did not claim that he was or was not at any time. 

 

My response, Via Garabaldi, was to your notion that the cop was just "Putting him in his place." That's it. That's the kind of thinking I don't support. But upon closer reading, you just meant that the officer FELT he was putting him in his place and you don't condone that so, maybe I was wrong in my reading of your commentary as well. 

 

You are all entitled to your opinions, and you are all entitled to comment on mine - but please and thank you - do not put words in my mouth. Yikes. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh boy howdy you've got me all figured out. I hate cops so much, that's why I spend so much of my free time listening to a police scanner. 

 

I'm not in any way against police or policing. I take issue with violence, in any situation, and *gasp* with people who break the rule of law toward the detriment of others.

 

A fare beater certainly breaks the law toward the detriment of others, as each of our pockets is picked to pay for his ride. So does a police officer who uses violence when it's not absolutely required. So does the person who takes up three seats on the train. So does the police officer who arrests an actually law-abiding musician.

 

I don't know what happened in this particular situation prior to the video. If the perp was resisting arrest then yes - that actually does merit an escalation to violence. I did see him try to flee in the video, but if he just started getting clubbed out of nowhere that's a pretty natural reaction that's hard to squelch even in the face of an authority figure. So I don't know if the officer was justified in his use of force, and I did not claim that he was or was not at any time. 

 

My response, Via Garabaldi, was to your notion that the cop was just "Putting him in his place." That's it. That's the kind of thinking I don't support. But upon closer reading, you just meant that the officer FELT he was putting him in his place and you don't condone that so, maybe I was wrong in my reading of your commentary as well. 

 

You are all entitled to your opinions, and you are all entitled to comment on mine - but please and thank you - do not put words in my mouth. Yikes. 

That was precisely what I was saying...

 

As for me "putting words in your mouth", I commented on how you were coming off, and in this thread and that other thread with the musician, you came off as anti-cop.  In my mind you're either pro-cop or anti-cop, but you seem to be playing both sides of the fence...  I am pro-cop, and in this case, I am simply stating my opinions about why the cop reacted the way that he did.  

[TDXNYC88]

 

 

The world doesn't have to revolve around me, but on the same token, I've worked in very racialized industries where race DOES matter, and I also have friends that work in the NYPD, so I'm not just making this up in my head.  B35 touched upon what I was trying to say and he stated it very elegantly, and for the record he's black.  I'll quote him since he pretty much sums up my thoughts about this whole situation in a nutshell:

 

 

I'm going off of my gut and what I've seen when it comes to black cops and how they handle black men and minorities in general (excluding Asians). 

 

And for the record, SubwayGuy also shares my opinion about a ton of division in minority communities.

 

 

 

I may not be black, but I know what I'm talking about and 9 times out of 10 I'd go with my instinct on this one that the black cop used police brutality because the guy was black.

 

 

SubwayGuy didn't call this scenario racist. Unlike you, he had a more logical take on this issue. 

 

 

There is a huge division in minority communities. The working poor who just want an honest life and can't afford to live better, or are uncomfortable leaving a neighborhood that shares their ethnicity (especially Spanish neighborhoods) is tired of this hood bulls*** in their neighborhoods and fearing for their safety.

 

They WANT help in removing this underclass scourge from their neighborhood with the loud music, the fights, the shootings, the robberies, the vandalism, the smell of pot being smoked everywhere, the street harassment (especially of women), and the constant loitering. They are unwilling and unable to handle this problem themselves for fear of retribution.

 

Are you clearly seeing how he didn't call the situation racist? This is BLATANTLY classism; the working class vs. the 'hood element. You have a group of individuals who want to make a legitimate living, and you have another with a crab mentality, totally apathetic about how their actions affect others in the long run.

 

My comments aren't based on evidence. I'm just voicing my opinion, just as others have who haven't used any actual evidence to support their opinion.  Nobody has to agree with it. The only time you seem to appear is when I post.  How interesting...  

 

I'm speaking about something that some folks don't like to air out in public.  That's the real problem... Black on black hatred isn't something that folks want to discuss and the thought of it existing is supposedly a "non-issue" hence why no one brought up race aside from me and a few others in here, but it exists, and it isn't just because of this one incident either.

 

Again, NO ONE other than yourself keeps playing the racism card. You're cherry-picking from others and misconstruing their words to further your agenda. Plus if you really think hatred is exclusive to just "black on black", you're really naive.

 

That's the whole point... You don't post here often and it seems as if when you do it's about me.  You find my posts offensive... Well that's your problem, not mine, and it's clear that you just can't get over it.  We haven't been discussing very controversial topics of late anyway aside from this one, so spare me with the you're so butt hurt about my "insulting" posts.

 

I agree with most of your post, but how do we know that he was resisting arrest? I didn't see anything in the video that shows that.

 

 

Of course it wouldn't be seen in the video, it was shot in the midst of the action.

 

 

According to police, the  video was shot moments after the suspect, 20-year-old Donovan Lawson, attempted to fare-beat at the Myrtle Avenue-Broadway station yesterday just before 8 p.m.

The nightstick-wielding officer apparently approached Lawson and asked to see his ID, a request that Lawson denied. The officer responded by attempting to cuff Lawson, which he resisted. 

 

SOURCE: http://gothamist.com/2014/11/21/video_cop_beats_alleged_fare_beater.php

[itmaybeokay]

That was precisely what I was saying...

 

As for me "putting words in your mouth", I commented on how you were coming off, and in this thread and that other thread with the musician, you came off as anti-cop.  In my mind you're either pro-cop or anti-cop, but you seem to be playing both sides of the fence...  I am pro-cop, and in this case, I am simply stating my opinions about why the cop reacted the way that he did.  

 

You're right. I am playing both sides of the fence because I think there are situations where the police act admirably and there are situations where the police act reprehensibly - and I don't think it comes down to individual officers. I think there are cases where the system is stacked such that morally bankrupt behavior is tolerated and worse cases where it's encouraged or perhaps even mandated. But I don't think that my assertions of individual bad actors or even systemic failures mean that I'm "anti-cop"

 

For instance, listening to the scanner last night I was reminded one of the reasons I'm glad to live where I do, hearing the police respond to the protests in manhattan and the vast majority of their response being to block traffic to make sure nobody got hurt. There was a real lack of violence in a very tense situation and I think by and large it was handled admirably. 

 

But at the same time, "Trust, but verify". How many of these situations of alleged excessive force would be solved rather quickly if the police wore body cameras? Those who resist arrest would have all but irrefutable evidence against them, ensuring justice was served appropriately, and those members of the service who act out of line would so to be subject to scrutiny. To me, that sounds like a win win - but there are so many who side staunchly "Pro cop" who insist that it would be a bad idea - and I just cant wrap my head around why. 

 

It's all but impossible for me to be exclusively pro or anti police because the assertion that any group of people always behaves properly or behaves improperly all of the time is flawed from the moment of it's very conception. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

SubwayGuy didn't call this scenario racist. Unlike you, he had a more logical take on this issue. 

 

 

Are you clearly seeing how he didn't call the situation racist? This is BLATANTLY classism; the working class vs. the 'hood element. You have a group of individuals who want to make a legitimate living, and you have another with a crab mentality, totally apathetic about how their actions affect others in the long run.

 

 

Again, NO ONE other than yourself keeps playing the racism card. You're cherry-picking from others and misconstruing their words to further your agenda. Plus if you really think hatred is exclusive to just "black on black", you're really naive.

 

 

Of course it wouldn't be seen in the video, it was shot in the midst of the action.

 

 

SOURCE: http://gothamist.com/2014/11/21/video_cop_beats_alleged_fare_beater.php

I never said Subway Guy did, but we do agree on the idea of there being division amongst minorities.

 

You're right... No one has directly stated that the situation was due to race aside from myself.  And your point is what?  You believe it's classism and I believe it's racism.  You have it set firmly in your mind that because both individuals are of the same race that it CAN'T be racism, which is not a given.  Whenever a situation occurs between people of the same race, we would like to believe it CAN'T be racism.  However that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and can't exist as you seem to be implying.

 

I alluded to the comments given by Subway Guy and by B35 because they provide examples historically speaking as to why I believe the situation is based on race, and I'm not going off just what was seen in the video and what the police stated.  I'm going off of how minority police officers treat and interact historically with minority individuals and historically speaking, they are aggressive.  Unless you are in denial about that then that is something that simply can't be overlooked when looking at not solely the facts, but other outside factors as well.  Even if what the police stated is true about the individual resisting arrest, there is no question that the officer's response was completely unnecessary, and I believe he used the amount of force that he did because of the above reasons.  You can throw classism in there too if you want, but ultimately I believe that police officer saw himself as being superior to that farebeater.

 

Subway Guy's comments about minority communities having divisions amongst themselves, and B35's comments about that police officer touch on why I feel the way that I do.  

[SubwayGuy]

At no point, at any time did I defend the alleged perpetrator. If he did indeed evade the fare, he deserved to be punished - and the law prescribes that punishment to be a fine. Fare evasion raises the cost of my metrocard and everyone else.s and I do not in any way condone it. If he resisted being detained in connection with his alleged fare evasion, then the officer may have even been justified in escalating to force. 

 

In fact, this entire response puzzles me because I didn't defend the perpetrator or impugn the officer - in fact, I went out of my way to say that the real defining moment of the confrontation happened before the start of the video, and as such, is unknown to me - I responded to a particular comment that claimed the officer was just "putting him in his place". 

 

Standard procedure is a fine, which involves requiring ID in order to assess the fine. If this individual was traveling without ID, had prior warrants, or resisted the officer in getting the info necessary to assess the fine, then the situation has escalated to one where an arrest becomes the standard procedure.

 

If said arrest is resisted, then the use of force to apprehend the suspect becomes authorized, calling for backup if needed (which arrived later). If the officer felt threatened for his safety while waiting for backup (as his injuries would indicate force was being used against him), then that would explain why he would resort to clubbing in an attempt to subdue the suspect. Not saying that excuses it in the context of job related discipline (which will likely be given, and warranted), but to charge this officer criminally for acting out of fear for his safety is excessive, and like I've said, using the incident to undermine the authority of the NYPD when most officers are very good and exercise tremendous restraint is opportunistic by those who have an agenda.

 

These sorts of things happen all the time. Below you will find a link to a video taken from one of my trains over a year ago:

 

The officers responding were extremely professional and defused this entire thing without any injuries to officers, the perps, or any bystanders despite the fact that these two idiots wanted to make it into a riot, and the area is not one of the better ones as far as crime statistics go. They were loud, in the officers' faces, antagonistic, obnoxious, and generally doing everything you do to a non-civil servant that usually ends up in an ass whooping. And the officers calmly did their jobs. But are/were they commended for this? Of course not. Because it doesn't serve the interests of those with an agenda.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/melee-erupts-cops-arrest-muslim-teen-taunting-jewish-subway-rider-article-1.1320655

[46Dover]

Standard procedure is a fine, which involves requiring ID in order to assess the fine. If this individual was traveling without ID, had prior warrants, or resisted the officer in getting the info necessary to assess the fine, then the situation has escalated to one where an arrest becomes the standard procedure.

 

If said arrest is resisted, then the use of force to apprehend the suspect becomes authorized, calling for backup if needed (which arrived later). If the officer felt threatened for his safety while waiting for backup (as his injuries would indicate force was being used against him), then that would explain why he would resort to clubbing in an attempt to subdue the suspect. Not saying that excuses it in the context of job related discipline (which will likely be given, and warranted), but to charge this officer criminally for acting out of fear for his safety is excessive, and like I've said, using the incident to undermine the authority of the NYPD when most officers are very good and exercise tremendous restraint is opportunistic by those who have an agenda.

 

These sorts of things happen all the time. Below you will find a link to a video taken from one of my trains over a year ago:

 

The officers responding were extremely professional and defused this entire thing without any injuries to officers, the perps, or any bystanders despite the fact that these two idiots wanted to make it into a riot, and the area is not one of the better ones as far as crime statistics go. They were loud, in the officers' faces, antagonistic, obnoxious, and generally doing everything you do to a non-civil servant that usually ends up in an ass whooping. And the officers calmly did their jobs. But are/were they commended for this? Of course not. Because it doesn't serve the interests of those with an agenda.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/melee-erupts-cops-arrest-muslim-teen-taunting-jewish-subway-rider-article-1.1320655

Like the mainstream media. Seems like the only way to make money is to do negative news, something akin to rubbernecking on the expressway to see a tractor/trailer hitting a car with fatalities....on the opposite side of travel ????

[TDXNYC88]

Standard procedure is a fine, which involves requiring ID in order to assess the fine. If this individual was traveling without ID, had prior warrants, or resisted the officer in getting the info necessary to assess the fine, then the situation has escalated to one where an arrest becomes the standard procedure.

 

If said arrest is resisted, then the use of force to apprehend the suspect becomes authorized, calling for backup if needed (which arrived later). If the officer felt threatened for his safety while waiting for backup (as his injuries would indicate force was being used against him), then that would explain why he would resort to clubbing in an attempt to subdue the suspect. Not saying that excuses it in the context of job related discipline (which will likely be given, and warranted), but to charge this officer criminally for acting out of fear for his safety is excessive, and like I've said, using the incident to undermine the authority of the NYPD when most officers are very good and exercise tremendous restraint is opportunistic by those who have an agenda.

 

These sorts of things happen all the time. Below you will find a link to a video taken from one of my trains over a year ago:

 

The officers responding were extremely professional and defused this entire thing without any injuries to officers, the perps, or any bystanders despite the fact that these two idiots wanted to make it into a riot, and the area is not one of the better ones as far as crime statistics go. They were loud, in the officers' faces, antagonistic, obnoxious, and generally doing everything you do to a non-civil servant that usually ends up in an ass whooping. And the officers calmly did their jobs. But are/were they commended for this? Of course not. Because it doesn't serve the interests of those with an agenda.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/melee-erupts-cops-arrest-muslim-teen-taunting-jewish-subway-rider-article-1.1320655

 

You see this, VG8? THAT is blatant racism, with classism as a catalyst ("You think you're better than me?") to make things escalate. There are 2 parties (both of different creeds and races), and one decided to slight the other with a racial slur based on the fact that he didn't get the acknowledgement he felt he was entitled to, and exacerbated the situation by taking the guy's phone. Next time you want to play the race card, at least have your facts in order before you do.

[QM1to6Ave]

 

 

These sorts of things happen all the time. Below you will find a link to a video taken from one of my trains over a year ago:

 

The officers responding were extremely professional and defused this entire thing without any injuries to officers, the perps, or any bystanders despite the fact that these two idiots wanted to make it into a riot, and the area is not one of the better ones as far as crime statistics go. They were loud, in the officers' faces, antagonistic, obnoxious, and generally doing everything you do to a non-civil servant that usually ends up in an ass whooping. And the officers calmly did their jobs. But are/were they commended for this? Of course not. Because it doesn't serve the interests of those with an agenda.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/melee-erupts-cops-arrest-muslim-teen-taunting-jewish-subway-rider-article-1.1320655

 

 

That was your train? Jeez. I remember this story, that video was downright disturbing. That mob was just looking for a reason to riot. It's sickening to think that these people are NY'ers. The first sergeant who was arresting the perp really kept things calm, so kudos to him. 

[SmallParkShuttle]

People see what they want to see.

 

The guy was resisting arrest. From the start of the posted video, the guy is sitting on top of the bench, pushing himself into the corner, with one hand trying to push the officer away. When the officer could not get a low shot to subdue the suspect with minimal force, he went high. The suspect's hand follows to try and counter the stick, and so the officer goes for the head.

 

The officer reaches to pick up his dropped stick, and the suspect trys to RUN AWAY, not sit down and nurse his injury. The subsequent "stumbling around" is actually the suspect trying to avoid getting pinned by the officer which would allow the officer to use his body weight to free up his hands to arrest the guy. Do you think he's hugging his friend out of love? No, it's using her as a human shield to keep his other hand away from the officers.

 

That is the definition of resisting arrest. The more you resist, the more force an officer will use to subdue you to arrest you. It is not easy to get someone's wrists together behind their back, especially if they don't want you to.

[1995 Orion V CNG]

No, you don't, you're still continuing with your race-baiting agenda in a scenario where race is practically irrelevant here. You don't see the bigger picture, you just see color. Try to understand what racism means before you starting using that angle. 

The way I see it is, this is a classic example of police brutality. This is happening all over the global, not just here in New York. Police are being federalized and trained to be revenue collectors and thought police. Everything is politically correct these days and it needs to stop. 

[1995 Orion V CNG]

They can start by defunding law enforcement. 

[theaveragejoe]

Like to see how everyone is quick to judge. We clearly did not see the whole thing and what lead up to what was caught on video. Remember the officer was also sent to hospital with hand and wrist injuries. 

[MHV9218]

Like to see how everyone is quick to judge. We clearly did not see the whole thing and what lead up to what was caught on video. Remember the officer was also sent to hospital with hand and wrist injuries. 

 

You seem to have missed the large, obvious point highlighted by blaring noises and flashing lights. Regardless of what led to what was caught on video, beating him in the head was unacceptable, immoral, and against every department protocol. Is that difficult to understand?

[Brooklyn]

Like to see how everyone is quick to judge. We clearly did not see the whole thing and what lead up to what was caught on video. Remember the officer was also sent to hospital with hand and wrist injuries. 

 

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, but when would be a good time to judge?

 

So are you saying what wasn't on video could possibly be more important than what's on the video?

 

Not trying to start a fight, but I am curious.

[biGC323232]

You seem to have missed the large, obvious point highlighted by blaring noises and flashing lights. Regardless of what led to what was caught on video, beating him in the head was unacceptable, immoral, and against every department protocol. Is that difficult to understand?

 

I agree...Definitely Unacceptable

[CenSin]

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, but when would be a good time to judge?

 

So are you saying what wasn't on video could possibly be more important than what's on the video?

 

Not trying to start a fight, but I am curious.

Anything taken out of context could lead to a completely different conclusion. But from what I can see in the video, the cop hit the boy's head on purpose. The injuries to the cop must've come from before the cop beat boy (and before the video was recorded), because the boy certainly wasn't in the position to do anything after the strike to the head, and the video show that the boy didn't do anything to the cop after the strike. I've scoured the web for any piece of information I could find on the case, but nothing on how the cop got his injuries. Given the attitude of the girl who recorded the the confrontation, I would not be surprised if she timed the recording so that it didn't capture any of the boy's unflattering behavior.

 

Anas said police frequently harass young people in the station “for no reason.”

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/nypd-officer-smashes-alleged-fare-beater-head-baton-article-1.2019269

 

 

And this doesn't justify beating someone in the head since cops usually don't know who the person is at the time of confrontation, but it will support the cop's side of the story when he explains how he got the injuries from the boy and what made him decide to aim for the head. This boy is no angel.

 

Lawson was previously arrested in 2013 after holding up a man with a BB gun in broad daylight, robbing him of his iPhone and cash and repeatedly punching him, according to court papers. The victim had to be hospitalized.

 

Lawson pleaded guilty to attempted robbery and served 11 months in prison before being released last month on parole, records show.

Source: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/nypd-officer-smashes-alleged-fare-beater-head-baton-article-1.2019269