MTA to Cut QM1 service along Union Turnpike - Winter 2016

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Citing low midday ridership along the QM1, the has decided to cut all QM1 midday service, which will be replaced by the current QM5 to Glen Oaks/260th street.  Those trips will operate in the same manner as current QM5 late nights and weekend trips do when the QM1 is not running. 13 trips will be cut, leaving the QM1 to become a rush-hour only route, operating during peak periods only to Midtown, Manhattan and Fresh Meadows, Queens.

 

 

SERVICE CHANGES:

 

SERVICE ISSUE: NYCT/MTA BUS COMMITTEE NOTIFICATION Report QM1/QM5 WEEKDAY.MIDDAY SERVICE REVISION in FRESH MEADOWS, QUEENS

 

The QMI and QM5 together with the QM6 provide express bus service between eastern Queens, along the Union Turnpike corridor, and Midtown, Manhattan. During weekday middays, ridership on the QMl is low, with each trip transporting less than 10 passengers in each direction. The QM5 serves all of the same bus stops as the QMI in Queens and Midtown, Manhattan, with the exception of two bus stops at the eastern end of the QMI route in Fresh Meadows. During weekday late evenings and nights, and all day on Saturdays and Sundays, when the QMI is currently not running, the QM5 diverts north on 188th Street to serve these two QMl bus stops in Fresh Meadows. RECOMMENDED

 

SOLUTION: To provide more cost-effective express bus service, replace the lightly-used midday QMl service with QM5 service utilizing the current QM5 service pattern that is operating during the weekday evening and nights, and all day Saturdays and Sundays. QMI passengers traveling to or from Fresh Meadows would receive the same or better service levels, QM5 passengers traveling between the areas east of l 88th Street and 73rd A venue and Midtown Manhattan would have an increase in travel time of approximately 4 to 5 minutes, and passengers west of l 88th Street in Queens would be accommodated on the QM5 or QM6. ESTIMATED IMP ACT: The net result of the recommended revision would be a decrease in operating cost of $300,000 annually. PLANNED IMPLEMENTATION: Winter2016

 

Source: http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/151116_1000_Transit&BUS.pdf

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Can I be honest though, I saw this coming, but kinda surprised at the same time, because there were some after-rush trips which did alright (namely the AM's to Manhattan). There will still be frequent service via the QM5/6. The 5 runs every 30 minutes until about 1 PM (in Fresh Meadows). I agree with the general aspect of the change though, there was no purpose for the QM1 to be running that much. 

[paulrivera]

How much is the city subsidy again?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Can I be honest though, I saw this coming, but kinda surprised at the same time, because there were some after-rush trips which did alright (namely the AM's to Manhattan). There will still be frequent service via the QM5/6. The 5 runs every 30 minutes until about 1 PM (in Fresh Meadows). I agree with the general aspect of the change though, there was no purpose for the QM1 to be running that much. 

My understanding is that they are looking at QM service in general.  Don't be surprised to see more changes, some "old ones"... In any event now you can shut up about Union Turnpike. lol

 

 

How much is the city subsidy again?

No idea.. Why the question??

[paulrivera]

I was wondering if the city's subsidy to MTA bus is sufficient enough...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was wondering if the city's subsidy to MTA bus is sufficient enough...

The city is actually doing quite well financiallfinancially. The subsubsidy to my knowledge hasn't been touched and should be fine. These are cuts that the wanted to make to cut costs. Simple as that.

[DetSMART45]

Welp, at least you know the priorities.

 

SBS is well-funded .......... Remember what I said about "adjustments" made to other services?

(I'd take you there but [a] I'm lazy, anyone who's been watching threads knows I've already said this, and [c] I don't want to be a Richard and do the told-ya-so dance.)

 

The "budget is tight" .......... well, except for pushing everyone to the idea that SBS is your "savior" for bus service.  Cuts have to be made, and don't know why this is such a surpise.  Express buses included.

 

Enjoy all your new buses, NOT running on-time, and that "new bus scent" until some 'customer' with dirty ass stinks it up.

 

Such is progress, I guess.

[DetSMART45]

 

My understanding is that they are looking at QM service in general.  Don't be surprised to see more changes, some "old ones"... In any event now you can shut up about Union Turnpike. lol

Not necessary, even with the lol.  Just saying.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

How much is the city subsidy again?

 

Complete, for now, and the MTA knows that the blank check won't be there forever.

[DetSMART45]

Complete, for now, and the MTA knows that the blank check won't be there forever.

Obviously not too worried about that, given that all they have to do is "prove" that SBS is needed on a route, and *voila* bills are paid.

 

If the B82 service is left to deteriorate -- even with a "study" being done (with nothing by the 'experts' done in 7 years) -- what makes you really confident that they're banking on city money to help pay the bills?  They've found an alternate cash source, and any "savings" generated will go down the same maze of rabbit holes it currently does.

 

The cash cow is the Federal government with their "congestion and air quality" ideas.  Satisfy them, and the cash keeps rolling in.  Don't need local monies for that.  Well, until THAT faucet gets shut off.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Obviously not too worried about that, given that all they have to do is "prove" that SBS is needed on a route, and *voila* bills are paid.

 

If the B82 service is left to deteriorate -- even with a "study" being done (with nothing by the 'experts' done in 7 years) -- what makes you really confident that they're banking on city money to help pay the bills?  They've found an alternate cash source, and any "savings" generated will go down the same maze of rabbit holes it currently does.

 

The cash cow is the Federal government with their "congestion and air quality" ideas.  Satisfy them, and the cash keeps rolling in.  Don't need local monies for that.  Well, until THAT faucet gets shut off.

He's referring to MTA Bus subsidies. The City pays for those routes under MTA Bus, while the MTA, along with the state, controls the costs for operating the NYCT services. Federal grants can only do so much. If a MTABC/NYCT merger occurs, all MTABC routes would no longer be covered by the city. 

 

My understanding is that they are looking at QM service in general.  Don't be surprised to see more changes, some "old ones"... In any event now you can shut up about Union Turnpike. lol

That's my major gripe with Union Turnpike being over served solved, but there a few other, minor-moderate changes I would take as well. This will do, though.

[DetSMART45]

He's referring to MTA Bus subsidies. The City pays for those routes under MTA Bus, while the MTA, along with the state, controls the costs for operating the NYCT services. Federal grants can only do so much. If a MTABC/NYCT merger occurs, all MTABC routes would no longer be covered by the city.

Yes, had that in mind.

 

If you think the MTA is going to let those subsidies go away, think again.

[B35 via Church]

Can I be honest though, I saw this coming, but kinda surprised at the same time, because there were some after-rush trips which did alright (namely the AM's to Manhattan). There will still be frequent service via the QM5/6. The 5 runs every 30 minutes until about 1 PM (in Fresh Meadows). I agree with the general aspect of the change though, there was no purpose for the QM1 to be running that much. 

You wanted this to happen....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You wanted this to happen....

Well yes, because the QM1 during middays is not necessary, but I envisioned that it would eventually get the axe (I didn't expect it to be this soon, though). I sometimes use the QM1 during middays, and normally, the max amount of people I've seen was 6 or 7. One time, there was about 20 people on the bus (11:40 AM), but that was mainly because a QM5 was late. 

 

It's nice and all that the QM1 is convenient to me, but is it seriously needed, especially with the QM5's running 10 minutes before it? The new QM5 schedule in January will mean that these current QM1 stops will receive service every 30 minutes instead of every 60 minutes until about 1 PM, and then for a small period from 5-6:20 PM. It also address that large PM gap towards Manhattan, which I believe is better for those riders than the traditional setup. Service to Queens will also begin earlier, at 8:15 AM via Fresh Meadows instead of the first QM1 at 9:30 AM, and it will run every 30 minutes instead of 60. Overall, the QM5 serving all of it would be much more beneficial than having both the QM1 and QM5 running simultaneously.

[QM1to6Ave]

So how exactly is the schedule changing? The QM1 runs will be cut, so what will replace them? How will the schedule be changed?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

So how exactly is the schedule changing? The QM1 runs will be cut, so what will replace them? How will the schedule be changed?

QM5's via Fresh Meadows will replace them. Essentially, the evening and weekend pattern will be in effect at all times except for rush hours in the peak direction. QM1's leave from Queens at :40, the new schedule will have the QM5 leaving from 188/64 at approximately at :00 and :30 until 1 PM, then every hour on the hour until 5:00 PM, then pass at 5:30 PM, then 6:19 PM, and the current schedule after 6:19 PM. Going to Queens, riders will have to use the QM5 which leaves either 15 minutes earlier, or later. Some riders have the option to use the QM6 as well, if they wish. Towards Fresh Meadows (north of 73 Avenue) on weekdays, service starts earlier with the setup in January. 

[QM1to6Ave]

QM5's via Fresh Meadows will replace them. Essentially, the evening and weekend pattern will be in effect at all times except for rush hours in the peak direction. QM1's leave from Queens at :40, the new schedule will have the QM5 leaving from 188/64 at approximately at :00 and :30 until 1 PM, then every hour on the hour until 5:00 PM, then pass at 5:30 PM, then 6:19 PM, and the current schedule after 6:19 PM. Going to Queens, riders will have to use the QM5 which leaves either 15 minutes earlier, or later. Some riders have the option to use the QM6 as well, if they wish. Towards Fresh Meadows (north of 73 Avenue) on weekdays, service starts earlier with the setup in January.

Sorry, this is hard to visualize for me. How many runs are being fully cut in either direction? In other words, now during, say 12 pm, there is a bus at 12, 12:18, 12:30, and 12:45 (which is the qm1). How will the schedule look now?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Sorry, this is hard to visualize for me. How many runs are being fully cut in either direction? In other words, now during, say 12 pm, there is a bus at 12, 12:18, 12:30, and 12:45 (which is the qm1). How will the schedule look now?

It's just the one QM1 trip which is being cut.

 

So instead of the schedule you posted, if they don't move the current QM5/QM6 departures from their terminals around, the schedule will be as follows:

 

From 188 Street/Union Turnpike:

 

12:05 PM(QM5), 12:18 PM(QM6), and 12:35 PM (QM5) 

 

From 6 Avenue/37 Street (during that same interval):

 

12:05 PM (QM6), 12:15 PM (QM5), 12:45 PM (QM5)

[QM1to6Ave]

It's just the one QM1 trip which is being cut.

 

So instead of the schedule you posted, if they don't move the current QM5/QM6 departures from their terminals around, the schedule will be as follows:

 

From 188 Street/Union Turnpike:

 

12:05 PM(QM5), 12:18 PM(QM6), and 12:35 PM (QM5)

 

From 6 Avenue/37 Street (during that same interval):

 

12:05 PM (QM6), 12:15 PM (QM5), 12:45 PM (QM5)

Thanks for the helpful info! I'm really pissed about this since I use those midday buses very frequently, and as of late even the QM1's have been more crowded than they suggest.

 

The problem with reporting average ridership is that just 1 empty run brings down the whole average and makes people think all the buses are empty

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1.Thanks for the helpful info! I'm really pissed about this since I use those midday buses very frequently, and as of late even the QM1's have been more crowded than they suggest.

 

The problem with reporting average ridership is that just 1 empty run brings down the whole average and makes people think all the buses are empty

1. It might look like that because of the 10/30/20 gap each hour. Maybe if they could try to even the headways out, it would be somewhat better, but that'd leave the QM5 with a funky headway (20/40).

 

Maybe if they moved the QM6 to run five minutes earlier, and the QM5 after the QM6 to run five minutes later, the headways would be more even (not completely even, but at least the headway is more consistent). You'd have a 20/25/15 headway, instead of a 10/30/20 headway. It's harder to change the departures from Queens. So during the middays, the service would be like this from 37 Street:

 

:00 (QM6), :20 (QM5), :45 (QM5).

 

Perhaps if the QM5 buses departed at :15 and :40 instead of :10 and :40, the headway west of 188 Street would more consistent too to Manhattan, as follows (from 188 Street):

 

:05 (QM5), :20 (QM6), :40(QM5). The QM6 would be given slightly more runtime to 188 Street, since those buses are often late to get there in the first place. 

 

May not help that much, but the reasoning behind it is that a much more even headway (closer to 20 minute headways) visually looks less hurtful than if they just eliminate the QM1 trip (because the average headway is 15 minutes-20 minutes, depending on the time and direction). 

 

2. Well, from what I've seen, there's some ridership on the QM1 towards Midtown in the afternoon, but those morning trips most likely bring the average down, and even some of those inbounds, after 2 or 3 PM, are just dead. Still though, the riders at Fresh Meadows will get the option to take the QM5 at the half hour or the hour (the QM5 at the :30 from 64 Avenue is much closer aligned to the :40 QM1 departure). The riders who be negatively impacted in terms of service are riders from 188 Street and points west. 

 

I have suggested on here before, as an alternative to eliminating all midday QM1's, to have that schedule the QM10/QM12 used to have. They would run inbound until a certain hour, then that last inbound, would change in Manhattan, and become the first outbound. So in this case, the 11:40 AM QM1 or 12:40 PM QM1 would've been the last bus into Manhattan, and once it hits 36 Street, it would become the first outbound trip at 12:30 PM or 1:30 PM outbound (depending on which bus would be the last inbound). 

[QM1to6Ave]

1. It might look like that because of the 10/30/20 gap each hour. Maybe if they could try to even the headways out, it would be somewhat better, but that'd leave the QM5 with a funky headway (20/40).

 

Maybe if they moved the QM6 to run five minutes earlier, and the QM5 after the QM6 to run five minutes later, the headways would be more even (not completely even, but at least the headway is more consistent). You'd have a 20/25/15 headway, instead of a 10/30/20 headway. It's harder to change the departures from Queens. So during the middays, the service would be like this from 37 Street:

 

:00 (QM6), :20 (QM5), :45 (QM5).

 

Perhaps if the QM5 buses departed at :15 and :40 instead of :10 and :40, the headway west of 188 Street would more consistent too to Manhattan, as follows (from 188 Street):

 

:05 (QM5), :20 (QM6), :40(QM5). The QM6 would be given slightly more runtime to 188 Street, since those buses are often late to get there in the first place.

 

May not help that much, but the reasoning behind it is that a much more even headway (closer to 20 minute headways) visually looks less hurtful than if they just eliminate the QM1 trip (because the average headway is 15 minutes-20 minutes, depending on the time and direction).

 

2. Well, from what I've seen, there's some ridership on the QM1 towards Midtown in the afternoon, but those morning trips most likely bring the average down, and even some of those inbounds, after 2 or 3 PM, are just dead. Still though, the riders at Fresh Meadows will get the option to take the QM5 at the half hour or the hour (the QM5 at the :30 from 64 Avenue is much closer aligned to the :40 QM1 departure). The riders who be negatively impacted in terms of service are riders from 188 Street and points west.

 

I have suggested on here before, as an alternative to eliminating all midday QM1's, to have that schedule the QM10/QM12 used to have. They would run inbound until a certain hour, then that last inbound, would change in Manhattan, and become the first outbound. So in this case, the 11:40 AM QM1 or 12:40 PM QM1 would've been the last bus into Manhattan, and once it hits 36 Street, it would become the first outbound trip at 12:30 PM or 1:30 PM outbound (depending on which bus would be the last inbound).

I see what you are saying, and perhaps they will make headways as even as possible, but the bottom line is that there will be lost runs, and the existing buses were often late as it is, and this will make it worse

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I see what you are saying, and perhaps they will make headways as even as possible, but the bottom line is that there will be lost runs, and the existing buses were often late as it is, and this will make it worse

I honestly think part of that was done purposely to allow the to say that those QM1s weren't needed due to light ridership. Despite what anyone here says such as BM5, these cuts will sting. I know because my neighborhood never recovered from losing the X16, and while the argued that we had alternatives, those alternatives were driving to other express buses leading to more traffic, or taking overcrowded local buses to the ferry that were already unreliable. Your neighborhood deserves better and you guys need to petition for the savings from those cuts to be used to improve service along Union Turnpike.

 

To answer your question, your neighborhood is loses 13 TRIPS! That's substantial! I would be mad as hell too. Note that I in favor of signing any petition to help you guys in that area. QM1/QM5/QM6 riders deserve better!

[QM1to6Ave]

I honestly think part of that was done purposely to allow the to say that those QM1s weren't needed due to light ridership. Despite what anyone here says such as BM5, these cuts will sting. I know because my neighborhood never recovered from losing the X16, and while the argued that we had alternatives, those alternatives were driving to other express buses leading to more traffic, or taking overcrowded local buses to the ferry that were already unreliable. Your neighborhood deserves better and you guys need to petition for the savings from those cuts to be used to improve service along Union Turnpike.

 

To answer your question, your neighborhood is loses 13 TRIPS! That's substantial! I would be mad as hell too. Note that I in favor of signing any petition to help you guys in that area. QM1/QM5/QM6 riders deserve better!

I'm definitely going to be contacting my representatives. Also, they say this will save only $300,000 per year?? That's a drop in the bucket for the MTA! Especially since the city covers these expenses! Cut one week of construction overrun costs and they would save more than 300 k

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm definitely going to be contacting my representatives. Also, they say this will save only $300,000 per year?? That's a drop in the bucket for the MTA! Especially since the city covers these expenses! Cut one week of construction overrun costs and they would save more than 300 k

Yeah, I'agree with you on that. When I first saw the savings, it seemed off, in the sense that it was too little. Now, I know that QM5's are being rerouted, but the extra cost is not much. 24-26 QM5's will have the added time, so the added cost would be $11.51-14.39 per trip, so approximately per day, there's an added cost of $276.24-$374.14, multiplied by 254, gives you added costs of $70,164.96-$95,031.56 annually. The 7 QM1 Midtown trips total an annual run cost of about $307,042.82, and with the 6 going back, it totals about $570,222.38. Subtract that, and you get net operational saving of $475,191.02-$500,057.42.

 

(Please note that I'm using NYCT cost per hour, but I believe the MTA Bus cost per hour is somewhere close to that too)

 

However, buses still have to DH back to their depots, so I believe that cuts into the savings, and they probably accounted late buses into that savings. Then, the $300,000 sounds somewhat reasonable. There's also probably more that isn't being said about this (something other then what's been mentioned to coincide with the elimination of midday QM1's)

I see what you are saying, and perhaps they will make headways as even as possible, but the bottom line is that there will be lost runs, and the existing buses were often late as it is, and this will make it worse

 

Perhaps some of those savings can be used to fix that, those inbound runs in the afternoon are always late because most come from doing an outbound trip. The schedules are too tight, and supposedly they gave extra time in the summer on the schedules. Those schedules are some kind of outdated. 

 

The weekend schedule is another problem, I believe too much time is given. I mean, look at the weekday and Saturday runtimes for the 12:00 AM QM5 to Glen Oaks as an example. The Saturday bus gets 13 extra minutes, yet at that time regardless of the day, traffic is pretty light at that time. Reduce that, and fix the schedule going outbound, it's insane to think they only get 10 minutes on weekdays to do the run up to 57 and 3rd from 37 Street on Weekdays, where as they get up to 27 minutes on Saturdays, and 15 on Sundays.

[B35 via Church]

.....and then they'll justify cutting midday QM5's too, and then we'll be on here up in arms (well some of us anyway) about Union Tpke. being left with just peak hour service.... This is one reason I sincerely believe they split up the old QM1/a service into individual routes....

 

I haven't stated as such on here (at least I don't think I have), but as far as the future of express buses are concerned (I already stated what I believe will happen w/ the local bus system), I think we're only going to be left with peak direction service only, and nowhere near as many total exp. routes either.... This includes Staten Island btw - Which would only significantly add to the # of vehicles on the road..... You're not going to get the majority of south shore patrons to put up with the whole subway -> ferry -> SIR BS - I'm surprised there's as many people that do it now!

 

Yeah, funds to pump into rail-based transportation/projects got to come from somewhere, and it's going to be by bastardizing bus service...

Raising the express bus fare to "spare" them (from cuts) won't matter - they want "empty" buses off the roads, you know, like the x29 (yes, I'm going to keep using that example, because it proves what/how blatant a lie was told, regarding how lowly utilized that express route was)....

 

Let's see how far the MTA will go with this whole underestimating of off-peak public transportation usage.....