R211 Discussion Thread

[subwaycommuter1983]

6 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Might as well just close the Astoria Line then and have not done the Station rehabs. I’d prefer NTT cars and decrepit stations, not glorified waiting rooms / waiting areas to wait and see if the MTA on the off-chance ran an R160 that morning. 

Well, you have the option of taking a bus to the Flushing or QBL or you can even move to a home close to Flushing or QBL.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Well A and C train riders have been and are still riding the oldest cars in the system for the last 20 years. These people pay the same fare as those who ride the NQW trains

That the NQW riders have to suck it up with the oldest trains in the system for the next 5-8 years is not too much to ask and it's about time that A C train riders  and people who live in poor neighborhoods served by the A C ride brand new trains.

It’s not the amenities they’re complaining about, it’s the breakdowns.

[R32 3838]

51 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

It’s not the amenities they’re complaining about, it’s the breakdowns.

 

 

The lines still have it worse esp the since it only has 13 R179s and has to share it's R46 spares with the . The and at least have the R68s to fall on and a very small spare factor and laid up trains at Coney if they really need anything. The / has nothing and 65% of the missing and trains are due to the lack of equipment since the R46 spare factor is very low for the / combined. This one one of the reasons why the 50% of R32 fleet were planned to stay until the first R211 would enter passenger service until politics and covid threw those plans in the trash.

 

I just think Coney doesn't want to deal with the r46s in hopes of Car equipment changing their minds to give them a piece of the R211 order which i doubt would happen.

 

Politics can't get in the way of CBTC, It's been proven. Coney Island yard will still need tech trains for the , This is why it makes sense for Coney Island to get the R160s back because the majority of the R160s would be for the . The remaining would likely be on the / along with the R68s while the is nothing but R68s with maybe 1-3 sets of tech trains.

 

The however will need tech trains. As much as I would hope for concourse to get the R211s, It wouldn't surprise me if they gave concourse the R160s from Jamaica instead while Jamaica would get the majority of the R211 order since on paper the and even the has higher ridership and would want both the / to be 100% R211s and in order to make that happen including putting them on the they would need about 800-840 R211s in total. But I still think the would get a whole new fleet and the R211s would be perfect for the alone due to it's heavy ridership and the reliability would go up due to cut dwell times because of more doors (40 doors) vs the 32 on the R68s.

 

 

5 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

But he does kinda have a point,  and  rider complaints about the R46 car class has gone up considerably.

 

They can live, Again the and riders has has old shit for 30 plus years and never gave a shit until a certain group of people starting moving into brooklyn. and riders had to watch other lines get new equipment throughout the years. R160B 9803-9942 were planned to go to the line in 2009 and they were training crews to be R160 qualified back in 2009 until they decided to just give that batch to Jamaica. Still to this day that I still think Rockaway power bullshit was just a way to keep the tech trains off the until they were forced to get them (R179s).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by R32 3838

[JustTheSIR]

22 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

They could, but there would be no reason to. The  is now based out of Jamaica and shares the R160s with the   lines.

 

Ok hear me out then

B and D get based fully out of Concourse. F continues to be based out of Jamaica and Coney is full R68 for the N, Q, W, and G. 

F runs part time express from Church to Kings Highway and full express from Bergen to Church. The G is full local to Kings Highway or Avenue X

Edited January 12, 2023 by JustTheSIR

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

The lines still have it worse esp the since it only has 13 R179s and has to share it's R46 spares with the . The and at least have the R68s to fall on and a very small spare factor and laid up trains at Coney if they really need anything. The / has nothing and 65% of the missing and trains are due to the lack of equipment since the R46 spare factor is very low for the / combined. This one one of the reasons why the 50% of R32 fleet were planned to stay until the first R211 would enter passenger service until politics and covid threw those plans in the trash.

 

I just think Coney doesn't want to deal with the r46s in hopes of Car equipment changing their minds to give them a piece of the R211 order which i doubt would happen.

 

Politics can't get in the way of CBTC, It's been proven. Coney Island yard will still need tech trains for the , This is why it makes sense for Coney Island to get the R160s back because the majority of the R160s would be for the . The remaining would likely be on the / along with the R68s while the is nothing but R68s with maybe 1-3 sets of tech trains.

 

The however will need tech trains. As much as I would hope for concourse to get the R211s, It wouldn't surprise me if they gave concourse the R160s from Jamaica instead while Jamaica would get the majority of the R211 order since on paper the and even the has higher ridership and would want both the / to be 100% R211s and in order to make that happen including putting them on the they would need about 800-840 R211s in total. But I still think the would get a whole new fleet and the R211s would be perfect for the alone due to it's heavy ridership and the reliability would go up due to cut dwell times because of more doors (40 doors) vs the 32 on the R68s.

 

 

 

They can live, Again the and riders has has old shit for 30 plus years and never gave a shit until a certain group of people starting moving into brooklyn. and riders had to watch other lines get new equipment throughout the years. R160B 9803-9942 were planned to go to the line in 2009 and they were training crews to be R160 qualified back in 2009 until they decided to just give that batch to Jamaica. Still to this day that I still think Rockaway power bullshit was just a way to keep the tech trains off the until they were forced to get them (R179s).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that rockaway power issue was real. While there is proof of such im tryna figure out why they would put the test track for the B division in the Rockaways…

[Reptile]

11 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Might as well just close the Astoria Line then and have not done the Station rehabs. I’d prefer NTT cars and decrepit stations, not glorified waiting rooms / waiting areas to wait and see if the MTA on the off-chance ran an R160 that morning. 

I mean you really shouldn't dislike a subway car THAT much but the and will actually get a lot of R160s. I believe it'll be 50/50 160/68. If you were a train rider I don't think you'd be so lucky, unless you were on Brighton because the would have R160s

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, Reptile said:

I mean you really shouldn't dislike a subway car THAT much but the and will actually get a lot of R160s. I believe it'll be 50/50 160/68. If you were a train rider I don't think you'd be so lucky, unless you were on Brighton because the would have R160s

We still have a R160 on the  only thing is that the assignment was mirrored. Used to be an R46 as a  to 96 St but that changed for obvious reason. Only flaw about the R46s so far on the  is that the R211 is still isn't in service even if it was said that we'll see it in passenger service. Who knews when it'll run. For now, we just have to wait and use whatever train we get from point A to B. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Calvin

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Ok hear me out then

B and D get based fully out of Concourse. F continues to be based out of Jamaica and Coney is full R68 for the N, Q, W, and G. 

F runs part time express from Church to Kings Highway and full express from Bergen to Church. The G is full local to Kings Highway or Avenue X

Concourse is a small yard and can't handle both the & for maintenance. Also, the would only use the R68/As in an emergency situation at this point.

 

[Vulturious]

6 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Ok hear me out then

B and D get based fully out of Concourse. F continues to be based out of Jamaica and Coney is full R68 for the N, Q, W, and G. 

F runs part time express from Church to Kings Highway and full express from Bergen to Church. The G is full local to Kings Highway or Avenue X

The entire  line is literally getting CBTC which was one of the main reasons as to why it's now based out of Jamaica in the first place. There is no way they would ever return to old tech at this point. It was already a nail in the coffin when they first received the R160's during their swap, but now with Crosstown announced to get CBTC, it's pretty much cemented.

[subwaycommuter1983]

6 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Ok hear me out then

B and D get based fully out of Concourse. F continues to be based out of Jamaica and Coney is full R68 for the N, Q, W, and G. 

F runs part time express from Church to Kings Highway and full express from Bergen to Church. The G is full local to Kings Highway or Avenue X

The B is still based out of CIY and the G is now based out of Jamaica. The G will get CBTC.

[subwaycommuter1983]

7 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

The lines still have it worse esp the since it only has 13 R179s and has to share it's R46 spares with the . The and at least have the R68s to fall on and a very small spare factor and laid up trains at Coney if they really need anything. The / has nothing and 65% of the missing and trains are due to the lack of equipment since the R46 spare factor is very low for the / combined. This one one of the reasons why the 50% of R32 fleet were planned to stay until the first R211 would enter passenger service until politics and covid threw those plans in the trash.

 

I just think Coney doesn't want to deal with the r46s in hopes of Car equipment changing their minds to give them a piece of the R211 order which i doubt would happen.

 

Politics can't get in the way of CBTC, It's been proven. Coney Island yard will still need tech trains for the , This is why it makes sense for Coney Island to get the R160s back because the majority of the R160s would be for the . The remaining would likely be on the / along with the R68s while the is nothing but R68s with maybe 1-3 sets of tech trains.

 

The however will need tech trains. As much as I would hope for concourse to get the R211s, It wouldn't surprise me if they gave concourse the R160s from Jamaica instead while Jamaica would get the majority of the R211 order since on paper the and even the has higher ridership and would want both the / to be 100% R211s and in order to make that happen including putting them on the they would need about 800-840 R211s in total. But I still think the would get a whole new fleet and the R211s would be perfect for the alone due to it's heavy ridership and the reliability would go up due to cut dwell times because of more doors (40 doors) vs the 32 on the R68s.

 

 

 

They can live, Again the and riders has has old shit for 30 plus years and never gave a shit until a certain group of people starting moving into brooklyn. and riders had to watch other lines get new equipment throughout the years. R160B 9803-9942 were planned to go to the line in 2009 and they were training crews to be R160 qualified back in 2009 until they decided to just give that batch to Jamaica. Still to this day that I still think Rockaway power bullshit was just a way to keep the tech trains off the until they were forced to get them (R179s).

 

 

 

 

 

 

The D will get NTTs due to CBTC on 8th Avenue. Only time will tell if the gets r211's or r160's. It will also depend on whether the 2nd option order will be open gangway trains or not. It makes more sense for Jamaica to get open gangway trains.

The comments on the A/C being bombarded with old equipment are so spot on and accurate. Thank you for speaking up.

Edited January 13, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[JustTheSIR]

9 hours ago, Vulturious said:

The entire  line is literally getting CBTC which was one of the main reasons as to why it's now based out of Jamaica in the first place. There is no way they would ever return to old tech at this point. It was already a nail in the coffin when they first received the R160's during their swap, but now with Crosstown announced to get CBTC, it's pretty much cemented.

 

 

9 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The B is still based out of CIY and the G is now based out of Jamaica. The G will get CBTC.

 

11 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Concourse is a small yard and can't handle both the & for maintenance. Also, the would only use the R68/As in an emergency situation at this point.

 

I’m stupid then. 

[Kamen Rider]

It’s not fully that Concourse Yard is small… it’s that Concourse BARN is small. Three tracks.

just enough to keep the D fleet in rotation. B has no problem laying up there but the shop can’t handle that many trains.

[Kamen Rider]

The 68/As are more well behaved trains on the whole… the only problem from my perspective is their super narrow cabs (I often leave my stuff in the alternate cab so I can move around easier).

 

if we had the capacity to, we would have started chucking the the 46s already. Their parts are wearing thin and the delays on the 211 order is all that is keeping them running.

 

some of the things I’ve heard from supervision… it’s not good.

 

could be worse… but it’s not good.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

11 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The D will get NTTs due to CBTC on 8th Avenue. Only time will tell if the gets r211's or r160's. It will also depend on whether the 2nd option order will be open gangway trains or not. It makes more sense for Jamaica to get open gangway trains.

The comments on the A/C being bombarded with old equipment are so spot on and accurate. Thank you for speaking up.

Agreed that it should be open-gangway R211s on Jamaica. I really don't think it would be an improvement over the R160s if the closed gangway-trains run there, because the R211s have wider doors and thus, fewer seats than the R160s. This will force more people to have to stand and result in more crowding. Given these post-Covid times we're in, I don't think we should be pushing people closer together. 

Quote

They can live, Again the  and  riders has has old shit for 30 plus years and  never gave a shit until a certain group of people starting moving into brooklyn.  and  riders had to watch other lines get new equipment throughout the years. R160B 9803-9942 were planned to go to the  line in 2009 and they were training  crews to be R160 qualified back in 2009 until they decided to just give that batch to Jamaica. Still to this day that I still think Rockaway power bullshit was just a way to keep the tech trains off the  until they were forced to get them (R179s).

You should have seen the complaints on here a few years ago when the 's R142As were sent over to the  line and  line riders got back the R62As.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Agreed that it should be open-gangway R211s on Jamaica. I really don't think it would be an improvement over the R160s if the closed gangway-trains run there, because the R211s have wider doors and thus, fewer seats than the R160s. This will force more people to have to stand and result in more crowding. Given these post-Covid times we're in, I don't think we should be pushing people closer together. 

You should have seen the complaints on here a few years ago when the 's R142As were sent over to the  line and  line riders got back the R62As.

Let the rich people who ride the 6, N,Q,W kick and scream. They are not entitled to new equipment. 

Thank God the MTA is finally giving the 2 most neglected subway lines in the system (which are the A, C trains) some much needed TLC, with the r179's, r211's, and CBTC on 8th Avenue. 

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

It’s not fully that Concourse Yard is small… it’s that Concourse BARN is small. Three tracks.

just enough to keep the D fleet in rotation. B has no problem laying up there but the shop can’t handle that many trains.

Yep, that's what I meant. The barn/shop is too small for the trains. The yard itself can hold many trains on the layup tracks.

4 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The 68/As are more well behaved trains on the whole… the only problem from my perspective is their super narrow cabs (I often leave my stuff in the alternate cab so I can move around easier).

 

if we had the capacity to, we would have started chucking the the 46s already. Their parts are wearing thin and the delays on the 211 order is all that is keeping them running.

 

some of the things I’ve heard from supervision… it’s not good.

 

could be worse… but it’s not good.

Not surprised to hear. The R46s are already well past the retirement age (pushing 50 years soon), and have had many issues from the beginning; It's time for them to go.

[Vulturious]

5 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

if we had the capacity to, we would have started chucking the the 46s already. Their parts are wearing thin and the delays on the 211 order is all that is keeping them running.

 

some of the things I’ve heard from supervision… it’s not good.

 

could be worse… but it’s not good.

From what I heard and if I'm not mistaken, the R211A is the one having issues, right? Compare that to the R211T which is running fine for the most part in terms of testing.

[FLX9304]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:23 AM, darkstar8983 said:

Might as well just close the Astoria Line then and have not done the Station rehabs. I’d prefer NTT cars and decrepit stations, not glorified waiting rooms / waiting areas to wait and see if the MTA on the off-chance ran an R160 that morning. 

This isn’t Burger King. You can’t have thing your way. 

[R32 3838]

7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The 68/As are more well behaved trains on the whole… the only problem from my perspective is their super narrow cabs (I often leave my stuff in the alternate cab so I can move around easier).

 

if we had the capacity to, we would have started chucking the the 46s already. Their parts are wearing thin and the delays on the 211 order is all that is keeping them running.

 

some of the things I’ve heard from supervision… it’s not good.

 

could be worse… but it’s not good.

 

This is what happens when the agency don't think with logic, A good portion of the R46s have very bad floors and the reason why they are unreliable because they chugged the R32s prematurely thinking the R211s would be in service in 2022 (it made sense at the time since ridership was low in 2021). The and has equipment shortages because of it on top of the crew shortage.

 

You add them being on the and 24/7 and you see why they aren't doing great.

 

And you add the R211 issues and supply shortages and it makes things worse.

 

 

 

 

 

[JustTheSIR]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

This is what happens when the agency don't think with logic, A good portion of the R46s have very bad floors and the reason why they are unreliable because they chugged the R32s prematurely thinking the R211s would be in service in 2022 (it made sense at the time since ridership was low in 2021). The and has equipment shortages because of it on top of the crew shortage.

 

You add them being on the and 24/7 and you see why they aren't doing great.

 

And you add the R211 issues and supply shortages and it makes things worse.

 

 

 

 

 

Why tf did the MTA cut out the R32s because 2 years of low ridership anyway?

[Kamen Rider]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

the reason why they are unreliable because they chugged the R32s prematurely thinking the R211s would be in service in 2022

There is a saying "Correlation is not causation". The 46s are not unreliable because the 32s are gone, the 32s weren't exactly perfect ether. 

[Calvin]

13 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why tf did the MTA cut out the R32s because 2 years of low ridership anyway?

The ridership is one (2020 is their use in data) and it may have something to do with the MTA crew for safety (mostly conductors) to avoid walking from one car to another in motion (before March 2020, the R32 was the only subway car to have crew walking car to car out of all the subway fleet there was). 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Calvin

[R32 3838]

27 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

There is a saying "Correlation is not causation". The 46s are not unreliable because the 32s are gone, the 32s weren't exactly perfect ether. 

Yeah but before they retired, The R46s weren't that bad since the was mainly R32s and R179s and the had plenty of R46 spares which some could have went to Coney. Once they retired the R32s, The reliability went down since they barely had spares,That is a fact. Pitkin's R46s were a hit or miss but they weren't that bad until they started throwing them on the . The and has to share the R46s and out of pitkin's fleet, There's only 4 to 5 set spares plus a pair. That's not enough since the majority of the line is still R46s. This is one reason why the is stupid for making the R179s mostly 8 car units. Had it been the other way around, This wouldn't be an issue since the would have more R179s vs R46s. The R32s could have stayed on the and (50 cars) and they could have sent more R179s to the to increase the spares but covid happened. This is why the R46s are unreliable. Then you add the CIY R46s which run on the   and 24/7 along with the and you would see why the R46s run like garbage. When the and had half of the R32 fleet, ENY also had the R42s, R143 and R160s meaning the and had a very high spare factor and why they were able to run the R32s 24/7 with barely any issues.

 

 

All is this is 's fault due to poor planning, All of this wouldn't be an issue if they made logical decisions. Their stupidity is why the R32s lasted 58 years and why we still have equipment shortages in 2023. 

 

But as the R211s go in service without issue i hope, All of these issues would be fixed and the entire R46 fleet would be retired within 3 years since option order I has been awarded.

43 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why tf did the MTA cut out the R32s because 2 years of low ridership anyway?

Politics, Covid and the fact that ridership was low in 2021, They said screw it which makes sense. The R211 was on property already and they thought the R211s would be in service by 2022 which by then the R32 fleet wouldn't be needed which IMO was a mistake because supply shortages and teething issues have delayed the R211s from entering service. But just about half of the R32 fleet that were replaced by the R179s were going to get scrapped regardless. The original plan was to use the parts from the scrapped cars onto the remaining fleet until 2022 and the   spent money rehabbing the remaining R32s to run until 2022 before Covid hit.

[trainfan22]

 

2 hours ago, JustTheSIR said:

Why tf did the MTA cut out the R32s because 2 years of low ridership anyway?

Cause they was unreliable and expensive to run. Going by MDBF data the R32s were much worse than the R46s are now. MTA probably was like good riddance to that fleet. 

 

 

Not replying to you specifically but replying to the general thread. The R46s had two high profile breakdowns WHILE THE R32 WERE STILL IN SERVICE! (The one on the died between West 4th and Broadway - Lafayette and the one died on the and had to be towed). The R46 MDBF dropped 20,000 miles while the R32 were still in service from 2017 until the pandemic started in 2020. The R46s would be in the exact same shape they are in now if the R32s were still running. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by trainfan22