R211 Discussion Thread

[Chris89292]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

It's not your call!  The vendor and the highest level of management in the appropriate  NYCT department make that decision!

2 years of testing was enough time let’s all agree on that, unless they want to spend another year testing the same things all over again, it’s not like an accident will happen if it were to enter service today or next month

[Fan Railer]

23 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

2 years of testing was enough time let’s all agree on that, unless they want to spend another year testing the same things all over again, it’s not like an accident will happen if it were to enter service today or next month

lmao that's not how any of this works....

[U-BahnNYC]

52 minutes ago, Fan Railer said:

lmao that's not how any of this works....

I mean, there are some things they just can't test without running passengers on a regularly scheduled service. There's only so much you can do running the train on empty tracks over and over again. 

This "lets get the 'kinks' ironed out" horse has been regurgitated about a million times on here and while I thoroughly understand the need to test, lets be real here, the  is probably the most worst run organization in the history of planet earth. I do not trust they have the competency to run thorough tests and prepare for everything so its almost guaranteed the R211 will have some minor issue once it enters regular service. The sooner it does that, the better. The "let's iron out the kinks" spiel is just another subtle cover up for an agency so utterly incapable of doing the most basic things you would expect them to do. 

The wasteful, horrible, inefficient corrupt money pit known as the would go bankrupt the very first day it stops receiving taxpayer handouts.

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, Chris89292 said:

2 years of testing was enough time let’s all agree on that, unless they want to spend another year testing the same things all over again, it’s not like an accident will happen if it were to enter service today or next month

Yes the R211s have been testing for a while now, but that doesn't mean they're ready for service just yet. There are clearly some things that still need to be worked on.

While I'm not an MTA employee, I can tell you that this is a very complex process and is not as simple as you may think. There are many different components that must be tested thoroughly to ensure that everything can function safely and properly.

This isn't the early 20th century when subway cars were very simple to build and test quickly. The equipment we have today is very complex and needs to be vetted thoroughly to ensure the highest safety and quality possible.

Hope I was able to give a decent explanation.

Edited March 10, 2023 by RandomRider0101

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

Idk if this is a result of video quality or just unfinished coding, but I've noticed in a lot of videos the exterior displays on the R211s seem quite "glitchy" where it like blinks on and off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXllrZaznK0

Here's a good example from DJHammers. 

[RandomRider0101]

3 minutes ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

Idk if this is a result of video quality or just unfinished coding, but I've noticed in a lot of videos the exterior displays on the R211s seem quite "glitchy" where it like blinks on and off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXllrZaznK0

Here's a good example from DJHammers. 

That would be the video quality. I was concerned about it at first too; but I learned that it has to do with the camera, and the signage doesn't do that in real life.

[Fan Railer]

19 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Yes the R211s have been testing for a while now, but that doesn't mean they're ready for service just yet. There are clearly some things that still need to be worked on.

While I'm not an MTA employee, I can tell you that this is a very complex process and is not as simple as you may think. There are many different components that must be tested thoroughly to ensure that everything can function safely and properly.

This isn't the early 20th century when subway cars were very simple to build and test quickly. The equipment we have today is very complex and needs to be vetted thoroughly to ensure the highest safety and quality possible.

Hope I was able to give a decent explanation.

^THIS. 

What too many people don't understand is that the more you computerize something, the more complicated it gets, resulting in longer test periods where more potential issues can arise that need debugging. This isn't a old fashioned SMEE or AMUE car where everything is governed by electrical relays that either have an on or off state and are basic enough that they used to have motormen carry around tools to make on-the-road repairs.

We are seeing this kind of prolonged testing happen with equipment all over the country these days. Simply put, with computerized control systems being the norm now, it'll be ready when it is ready.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

10 minutes ago, Fan Railer said:

^THIS. 

What too many people don't understand is that the more you computerize something, the more complicated it gets, resulting in longer test periods where more potential issues can arise that need debugging. This isn't a old fashioned SMEE or AMUE car where everything is governed by electrical relays that either have an on or off state and are basic enough that they used to have motormen carry around tools to make on-the-road repairs.

We are seeing this kind of prolonged testing happen with equipment all over the country these days. Simply put, with computerized control systems being the norm now, it'll be ready when it is ready.

Not that testing fixes this, but there's probably fear there might be some sort of nightmare glitch in the software that runs the train - we've seen it happen before with Boeing for instance with the MCAS system causing planes to go into nose-dives. A rouge train may be slightly less sensational than a crashing 737, but it has potential to harm a lot more people.

NYC subway generally has lots of backups, but better safe than sorry.

[Calvin]

So, because the R211s didn't run as planned yesterday: this happened to the R179 , someone calling the Yard (207 St, to be exact) asking if the train is running or on a future date. The phone numbers for the subway yards are for employees only about their work, not for updates based on trains running or museum interest. 

 

And, yes to not running that day

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Calvin

[mine248]

2 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I mean, there are some things they just can't test without running passengers on a regularly scheduled service. There's only so much you can do running the train on empty tracks over and over again. 

This "lets get the 'kinks' ironed out" horse has been regurgitated about a million times on here and while I thoroughly understand the need to test, lets be real here, the  is probably the most worst run organization in the history of planet earth. I do not trust they have the competency to run thorough tests and prepare for everything so its almost guaranteed the R211 will have some minor issue once it enters regular service. The sooner it does that, the better. The "let's iron out the kinks" spiel is just another subtle cover up for an agency so utterly incapable of doing the most basic things you would expect them to do. 

The wasteful, horrible, inefficient corrupt money pit known as the would go bankrupt the very first day it stops receiving taxpayer handouts.

The MBTA would like to have a word with you

[Cait Sith]

6 hours ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

For the public it was not official I’m not a Foamer or public. Everything that happens in TA is not going to be public.The T/O was told a few hours before it was a no go

I can vouch for this, I heard the same thing.

4 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

I mean, there are some things they just can't test without running passengers on a regularly scheduled service. There's only so much you can do running the train on empty tracks over and over again. 

This "lets get the 'kinks' ironed out" horse has been regurgitated about a million times on here and while I thoroughly understand the need to test, lets be real here, the  is probably the most worst run organization in the history of planet earth. I do not trust they have the competency to run thorough tests and prepare for everything so its almost guaranteed the R211 will have some minor issue once it enters regular service. The sooner it does that, the better. The "let's iron out the kinks" spiel is just another subtle cover up for an agency so utterly incapable of doing the most basic things you would expect them to do. 

The wasteful, horrible, inefficient corrupt money pit known as the would go bankrupt the very first day it stops receiving taxpayer handouts.

This whole post just reeks of entitlement(and a lot of lack of knowledge) to the very last sentence.

It's like folks like you forgot about the R179 fiasco and the amount of problems they had during testing, most of them being at the fault of Bombardier. They had so much problems with those cars during testing AND service, that they are playing it safe with these cars and Kawasaki has been working closely with the MTA every day to get these cars in operational shape. The R160s also went through rigorous testing and had their fair share of issues and delays, but they didn't run them in actual service until they ironed out most of the kinks.

You want to talk about an organization that is horrible, inefficient and the worst run in the country? Look at Boston, their system is falling apart in more ways than one. Even their NEW cars are falling apart faster than most of their old ones. It's so bad out there that they are doing shit like this.

Be patient, unless you want the R179 fiasco coming back to haunt us again. They're not going to run the cars in service just because you think they should. They're not going to run them until they think its operationally functional to run them in service.

7 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Aspects of the railfan community that I despise, and there are numerous, is this insistence in taking unconfirmed information as absolute truths. I've always been a naturally inquisitive person, so the gullible are among those who tick me off pretty bad.

Slow your role there brother. It was posted as an inauguration train initally in the scheduling system and the T/O who some of us know got called up for the job. The fact that it wasn't posted officially in an internal memo means something happened that caused them to cancel.

--------------------------------------

All in all, you guys need to be patient. Things change, and things happen for a reason. No need to get bent out of shape over cars that'll be here for years to come.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Cait Sith

[U-BahnNYC]

1 hour ago, Cait Sith said:

I can vouch for this, I heard the same thing.

This whole post just reeks of entitlement(and a lot of lack of knowledge) to the very last sentence.

It's like folks like you forgot about the R179 fiasco and the amount of problems they had during testing, most of them being at the fault of Bombardier. They had so much problems with those cars during testing AND service, that they are playing it safe with these cars and Kawasaki has been working closely with the MTA every day to get these cars in operational shape. The R160s also went through rigorous testing and had their fair share of issues and delays, but they didn't run them in actual service until they ironed out most of the kinks.

You want to talk about an organization that is horrible, inefficient and the worst run in the country? Look at Boston, their system is falling apart in more ways than one. Even their NEW cars are falling apart faster than most of their old ones. It's so bad out there that they are doing shit like this.

Be patient, unless you want the R179 fiasco coming back to haunt us again. They're not going to run the cars in service just because you think they should. They're not going to run them until they think its operationally functional to run them in service.

Slow your role there brother. It was posted as an inauguration train initally in the scheduling system and the T/O who some of us know got called up for the job. The fact that it wasn't posted officially in an internal memo means something happened that caused them to cancel.

--------------------------------------

All in all, you guys need to be patient. Things change, and things happen for a reason. No need to get bent out of shape over cars that'll be here for years to come.

Respectfully, it's not entitlement to expect bare minimum standards, especially from an organization to where my tax dollars are going to. With the bazillions the MTA regularly receives, you'd think we'd have a world-class system but instead we get union corruption and abysmal service. 

Comparing it to the MBTA, an equally abysmal organization, sets the bar quite low. Shouldn't we compare it to the CTA? Or - dare I suggest - the TTC or TfL? 

 

[Cait Sith]

17 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Respectfully, it's not entitlement to expect bare minimum standards, especially from an organization to where my tax dollars are going to. With the bazillions the MTA regularly receives, you'd think we'd have a world-class system but instead we get union corruption and abysmal service. 

Comparing it to the MBTA, an equally abysmal organization, sets the bar quite low. Shouldn't we compare it to the CTA? Or - dare I suggest - the TTC or TfL? 

 

That's assuming you even know what those standards are when it comes to testing new car equipment. Simply put, they won't conform to your standards.

CTA isn't bad, TfL turned themselves around. I don't know much about TTC to say anything.

Regardless, no agency is perfect. They all have their flaws. If you were around when the MTA was testing the other NTTs, you'd understand why it actually takes them so long(with the exception of the R179s). Just because the 211s aren't in service yet doesn't mean your tax dollars are being wasted. It just sounds like entitlement to the T. That's like saying a chicken spot should close down because they don't serve pork.

Again, people need to stop overreacting over this delay. They're not going to run them just because you think they should. These cars will be here for years to come. Let them do what they have to do to get these cars running asap instead of rushing them to get them into service and then problems arise. You'd all be going at the MTA's throats for those problems too.

You can't have it both ways.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Cait Sith

[Lawrence St]

So according to someone named R on New York Railroads & Subways, today is suppose to be the day the R211’s enter passenger service.

Anyone confirm?

[RTOMan]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

So according to someone named R on New York Railroads & Subways, today is suppose to be the day the R211’s enter passenger service.

Anyone confirm?

Yes I’ll confirm because I know the TSS who’s been working with them personally…I also saw his Facebook post..

Edited March 10, 2023 by RTOMan

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, RTOMan said:

Yes I’ll confirm because I know the TSS who’s been working with them personally…I also saw his Facebook post..

Oh that’s a TSS? Didn’t know.

[RTOMan]

9 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Oh that’s a TSS? Didn’t know.

No the TSS who made the Facebook post on his wall regarding the testing I was talking about as well..  I’m backing up “Mr R” who made the post on the group..

Edited March 10, 2023 by RTOMan

[RTOMan]

14 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Oh that’s a TSS? Didn’t know.

Lawerence I’m talking about the transit photos and videos group BTW…

[mine248]

I’m confused. Is the R211 only doing a PM tour today? (The post on New York Railroads seems a bit sus, but someone on transit photos and videos says that the PM run is happening)

[Chris89292]

36 minutes ago, mine248 said:

I’m confused. Is the R211 only doing a PM tour today? (The post on New York Railroads seems a bit sus, but someone on transit photos and videos says that the PM run is happening)

It would’ve made sense if they ran it during the start of AM rush hour, so it would have a full day service, I doubt this event will even happen, there is no official announcement from the MTA

[RTOMan]

10 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

It would’ve made sense if they ran it during the start of AM rush hour, so it would have a full day service, I doubt this event will even happen, there is no official announcement from the MTA

That's not how they work...

They know the foamers are out there ready to act up...

The source is correct..

[LTA1992]

16 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

What do you mean by ""if people can afford it?"   

This goes to all you schoolers: Does it mean you can afford to lose classroom instruction?  Does your guardian (mommy/daddy/grandma/whoever) know you're cutting class?  

As a taxpayer whose taxes goes to YOUR classroom instruction, I want you and everyone else present for all your classes.  No cutting class!  You can ride the train after school!

I meant exactly what I said.

If you can afford it. Obviously, a calculated decision. Truancy cops exist.

I'm not gonna be a hypocrite either. I did it. But I knew when I could. Good grades and good attendance DOES afford you one day, once in a while. At no consequence.

So long as you don't make it a habit.

Classroom learning is important, but I'm not gonna pretend there wasn't value in me learning the city. Lived experience will always trump books. Yes, I could have kept it to only after school but I'd also be seeing the same thing every day. Also, funnily enough, the subways were less safe after school. Even as a teen, I thought about the variables. Comes with the desire to have as little trouble come my way as possible.

If it can be avoided, avoid it. If you know an action will lead to negative consequences, avoid it.

Lastly, some of us ain't have time after school.

Calculated decision. My taxes also go to their instruction. Their instruction sucks. Advocate for improving that before criticizing me. I was definitely one of the youth it was not, and is still not, designed for.

Actions have consequences.

---------------

And to the person who brought up subway surfing (because why not just go the whole damn mile no matter how unrelated it is):

You can NEVER afford to risk your life. There will be another day of school.  There will be another day of work. You don't get another life. Why the hell would you think "if you can afford it" would apply there? I swear this community likes making fire where there is none.

The people who do this do not give a damn about their life anyway. This includes people who be up in really high places. They do NOT care. You talking ain't gonna do it. Only near death or seeing someone they know die. And sadly, for some, even that ain't enough.

I know the dude who climbed to the top of One WTC back when it was nearly complete. The reason he didn't go to jail was a case of right person, right time.

(Personally, I think he's a fine example of wasted resources. Went to Paris, something he ahould have missed and someone else gone, and he spent more time CLIMBING SHIT than the work we were there to do. Pissed me off. Anywho, the reason he was there was because the very person who kept him out of prison thought the experience would be good for him. He was my first example of a person who, no matter what you do, will not change. It was on the Petite Centure where a few of us learned he doesn't care of he lives or dies. I haven't heard from him in years but I occasionally look up his name.

Last I saw? He was still "getting caught" on the tops of buildings.)

He, himself has said, that he doesn't care about his life. I've met other urban explorers personally and it's usually the same. It's the situations they put themselves in that make them feel alive. Free. Anything else may as well be prison.

And you wanna know why this guy got caught coming down from One WTC? It was on purpose. He wanted to get caught. So he did. He wanted people to know he did it. He could have walked right out, no consequence, and CHOSE not to.

Choice. Funny how we all have that.

And I ain't gonna hold you, if a person somehow thinks surfing the trains is a good idea, school is a waste on them anyway.

In closing: Don't make this bigger than it is. For some of us, one day was definitely inconsequential. Same goes for work. 

If you can afford it. Actions have consequences. And you'd better be prepared to face them.

Edited March 10, 2023 by LTA1992

[RTOMan]

1345 out of 207th to Far Rock..

Give or take a interval...

[FLX9304]

6 hours ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Respectfully, it's not entitlement to expect bare minimum standards, especially from an organization to where my tax dollars are going to. With the bazillions the MTA regularly receives, you'd think we'd have a world-class system but instead we get union corruption and abysmal service. 

Comparing it to the MBTA, an equally abysmal organization, sets the bar quite low. Shouldn't we compare it to the CTA? Or - dare I suggest - the TTC or TfL? 

 

You’re asking for a simple Yankees-Red Sox rivalry if you want a NYMTA/MBTA comparison 

Edited March 10, 2023 by FLX9304

[Fan Railer]

1 hour ago, mine248 said:

I’m confused. Is the R211 only doing a PM tour today? (The post on New York Railroads seems a bit sus, but someone on transit photos and videos says that the PM run is happening)

The post stating 7:30 am sounds like the sign on time for the test train to broad channel. The ~2pm run out of 207 is the revenue test.