R211 Discussion Thread

[darkstar8983]

11 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

It would be ideal for both the C and the G to have 10 car trains, but there are not enough 10 car trains to allow this change to happen. We would have to wait for option 2. Option 1 will only make the C full length.

This would have happen much  sooner if the MTA would have ordered 50 8-car r179's to retire the r42's and make the rest of the r179 order 10 car trains in addition to the extra 10 car trains the MTA received as a result of the r179 delays.

Also, both the A and C need to be 100% NTTs by the end of 2024 due to CBTC.

In addition, the V and W weren't eliminated due to train shortage. They were both eliminated due to budget cuts that also eliminated several bus routes. These budget cuts were a result of the 2008-2010 recession.

The train shortage was caused by the premature retirement of the r44's and the MTAs dumb decision of not ordering extra r179's.

 

The issue was that the R32s and R42s needed to be arranged mainly in 8-car trainsets since they were kept in place of 272 R44s and remember that in the latter half of the 2010s, they held down service on the  and , which is why the R179 order was flipped to a majority 8-car trainset configuration, which helped ENY but screwed everything else up. Honestly it should have been a fully 8-car order so it could knock out requirements for ENY and the  in one go, but what’s done is done

[MJHmarc]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I am really disappointed with NYCTA’s decision to prematurely retire the R32’s and R42’s. They should have at least kept them as a reserve fleet, which was the original plan, before they started getting scrap happy.

They will never get out of a car shortage if they keep playing this game. In what universe is it a good idea to retire cars that you need when Option 1 & 2 isn’t even confirmed yet?

Honestly i don’t think the MTA ever cares about car shortages, don’t be surprised if the R46’s get retired before the choice is made on option order 2

[MJHmarc]

Has anyone made a list of the features that didnt’t make the cut of the finished R211’s ?

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The point I meant was making it full length, 8 or 10 cars.

Considering the fact that’s not even remotely close to being true, more then half the comments in this thread are about fleet allotment and the .

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we should each respect it, period.

If what you said about the r32s & r42s being 'prematurely retired' was your opinion, then you should've done a better job with how you presented it.

We are all entitled to our opinions. It becomes an issue when people present their opinions as facts, and then on top of it get mad when others call them out on it. If you can share your opinions on a public forum, you should also be able to take constructive criticism.

Now on a more relevant note, I'm glad that the R211s are officially in service now with two trains & I look forward to seeing more in service soon.

[R32 3838]

34 minutes ago, MJHmarc said:

Has anyone made a list of the features that didnt’t make the cut of the finished R211’s ?

The only things cut form the R211s are the usb charging ports. It could be other things we don't know too but that's the only thing that was cut.

[MJHmarc]

11 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The only things cut form the R211s are the usb charging ports. It could be other things we don't know too but that's the only thing that was cut.

Probably along with in car Wi-Fi. 

[AZthefoamer]

14 minutes ago, MJHmarc said:

Probably along with in car Wi-Fi. 

Might be added at a later date. If not, hopefully the R262 and R268 orders will contain it as well as USB cables.

[Calvin]

I've noticed that the R211s in-service so far on the  do not appear during the midnight hours. Eventually, when they get more or so, they'll put them in-service in mix with the R179s and some R46s at the said time. 

[Kamen Rider]

The combination of the M/V and the cut of the W was purely for saving money. This was not about saving cars or SAS construction. Where the heck did you come up with that? 

[Metro CSW]

If the Wi-Fi didn't work out on the buses, why would we think it'd be any different on the subway cars? The charging ports are on the same chopping block and obviously, can be a waste of maintenance. I say, F**k those amenities in particular, give me new trains that can run and give information.... 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Metro CSW

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

The combination of the M/V and the cut of the W was purely for saving money. This was not about saving cars or SAS construction. Where the heck did you come up with that? 

the would have been cut regardless or the those remaining R44s would have stayed another 6 years. The R44 retirement played a role when it came to the cuts. Of course they would make it only seem like it was to just save money but anyone who is smart enough would know that they had no choice but to combine the and in order to retire the R44s that weren't replaced by R160s. If the stayed would have been reduced to rush hour only because during the midday the lay ups that usually laid up north of 57th st couldn't lay up there anymore due to the work they were doing in that area for 2nd ave and lex and 63 station rehab. They laid those trains up between times sq and just south of 57th st on the express tracks. This is also why the ran local between 34th and 57th st to Astoria.

 

Yes It was to save money but there were other factors that caused them to cut as well. They were even thinking about doing a 3rd option order of R160s but didn't do it due to not getting the funds to do it.

[Comrade96]

1 hour ago, Metro CSW said:

If the Wi-Fi didn't work out on the buses, why would we think it'd be any different on the subway cars? The charging ports are on the same chopping block and obviously, can be a waste of maintenance. I say, F**k those amenities in particular, give me new trains that can run and give information.... 

Id say itd have more success underground since theres no service in the tunnels

[NBTA]

This shortage talk is getting super repetitive, seems like these cars are the saving grace of the MTA right now, but at the end of it all, everything will be good, as long as nothing messes up. Just gotta be grateful that we’re getting new things that’ll last us for the next 35-40 some odd years.

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

If the stayed would have been reduced to rush hour only because during the midday the lay ups that usually laid up north of 57th st couldn't lay up there anymore due to the work they were doing in that area for 2nd ave and lex and 63 station rehab. They laid those trains up between times sq and just south of 57th st on the express tracks. This is also why the ran local between 34th and 57th st to Astoria.

Still not the reason the W was ended, nor the reason why the Q stopped at 49th.

[RedLine]

Wifi is more dependent on wayside than the cars themselves.

[FLX9304]

20 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

They weren't retired prematurely. The r179's were supposed to replace the r42's and some r32's.

The r32's were retired because of COVID. They were a health hazard for train crews who have to be switching cars to open and close the doors.

Both options orders will eliminate car shortage.

That I agree. The R32s were the oldest ones without open width cabs and conductors had to walk in between cars to open left side or right side doors, which was another unsafe tactics, especially to newer conductors. Around where crews are, they would have to seal off 2 areas of each side where they are positioned had they operated in service during the pandemic 

Edited July 3, 2023 by FLX9304

[R32 3838]

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

[subwaycommuter1983]

58 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

How come the MTA and the media hasn't informed riders about these changes?

[FLX9304]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

Part of the 6th Ave CBTC installation 

[darkstar8983]

28 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

Part of the 6th Ave CBTC installation 

Ohhh they may just as well do CBTC installation but not activation just yet, all in one go, well at least between Lex Av-63 St and 36 St interlocking, so that for the time being, the  can still run via 6 Av in a pinch

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

I just remembered that they are going to be doing the 63rd st trackwork GO which is a long term GO, So this might affect some car moves since the   won't be on queens blvd. this makes me think a good chunk of R179s would be moved from ENY to the and the R46s get pushed onto the , transferred to CI or sidelined as more R211s come into service.

In an earlier post after showing off my calculations it would be possible to base all R179s during the 63 St GO on the , leaving R143s and R160s for the , since  service requirements are likely going to be cut in half, freeing up those R160s for the .

Edited July 3, 2023 by darkstar8983

[darkstar8983]

14 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

the would have been cut regardless or the those remaining R44s would have stayed another 6 years. The R44 retirement played a role when it came to the cuts. Of course they would make it only seem like it was to just save money but anyone who is smart enough would know that they had no choice but to combine the and in order to retire the R44s that weren't replaced by R160s. If the stayed would have been reduced to rush hour only because during the midday the lay ups that usually laid up north of 57th st couldn't lay up there anymore due to the work they were doing in that area for 2nd ave and lex and 63 station rehab. They laid those trains up between times sq and just south of 57th st on the express tracks. This is also why the ran local between 34th and 57th st to Astoria.

 

Yes It was to save money but there were other factors that caused them to cut as well. They were even thinking about doing a 3rd option order of R160s but didn't do it due to not getting the funds to do it.

If that were the case, the layups that did not fit at City Hall lower level would have just ran to Coney Island Yard or all  train layups would have used the Astoria Express track - meaning more trains terminating at Queensboro Plaza

Edited July 3, 2023 by darkstar8983

[NBTA]

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

In an earlier post after showing off my calculations it would be possible to base all R179s during the 63 St GO on the , leaving R143s and R160s for the , since  service requirements are likely going to be cut in half, freeing up those R160s for the .

What page was this on?

[FLX9304]

3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Ohhh they may just as well do CBTC installation but not activation just yet, all in one go, well at least between Lex Av-63 St and 36 St interlocking, so that for the time being, the  can still run via 6 Av in a pinch

I’m talking a whole new animal here. This isn’t for the  to run via 6th Ave because that part will not be in used during that GO. The  stay as is. Since the Broadway/2nd Ave version is not affected by that. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by FLX9304

[MJHmarc]

4 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

How come the MTA and the media hasn't informed riders about these changes?

Even though wayyyyyy off topic …

https://www.cb8m.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/63-St-Direct-Fixation-Public-Presentation-June-2023.pdf