R211 Discussion Thread

[FLX9304]

4 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

I will say despite all the issues, seeing an R211 on the  is a much more normal occurrence; people no longer look at it weirdly or with awe when it pulls into the station, and it's never filled with railfans taking photos. It's like officially part of the family.

Once the first R211s went thru the 30 day test this June, and the proto was a regular, the fanfare stopped. You only see them when a new subway cars run for 3-6 weeks, but once week 7 comes, they’re regular joes or janes you see doing their normal activities 

[itmaybeokay]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:03 PM, Ale188 said:

More like around my B-day (2/13)

Eyyy that's my birthday too.

(Haven't been around here in quite a while, but popped on to see how many of these things are in service after seeing one in the wild on monday. Sounds like that was the only set in service, lucky.) 

[Ale188]

7 minutes ago, itmaybeokay said:

Eyyy that's my birthday too.

(Haven't been around here in quite a while, but popped on to see how many of these things are in service after seeing one in the wild on monday. Sounds like that was the only set in service, lucky.) 

Eyyy! Twins! But that's fine. But I finally get to share a bday wit someone.

[MJHmarc]

Here’s the no update, update. 

https://gothamist.com/news/new-nyc-subway-cars-still-need-repairs

”Initially, an MTA spokesperson only confirmed there was an issue with some of the R211s, but the spokesperson couldn’t say how many trains had been pulled out of service because of the “dynamic” situation. Only after we published our initial story did New York City Transit President Richard Davey clarify that nearly all of the “cutting edge,” “top of the line” trains were already back at the train yard for repairs. MTA officials confirmed that two out of seven R211s are still out of service.”

 

 

[Ale188]

1 hour ago, MJHmarc said:

Here’s the no update, update. 

https://gothamist.com/news/new-nyc-subway-cars-still-need-repairs

”Initially, an MTA spokesperson only confirmed there was an issue with some of the R211s, but the spokesperson couldn’t say how many trains had been pulled out of service because of the “dynamic” situation. Only after we published our initial story did New York City Transit President Richard Davey clarify that nearly all of the “cutting edge,” “top of the line” trains were already back at the train yard for repairs. MTA officials confirmed that two out of seven R211s are still out of service.”

 

 

What's the 6th set that came back?

[darkstar8983]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:29 PM, Ale188 said:

What's the 6th set that came back?

Probabaly a newly delivered set that had not entered service yet that finally was cleared. Remember that a 10-car train was delivered right when the gear box issues happened. Maybe that set was cleared for service

[Ale188]

4130-39 was used as a school car on 12/21.

[RandomRider0101]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:26 AM, R32 3838 said:

Here's the thing, Nobody is saying the R32s are coming back are wanting them to comeback. All i stated is that got too overconfident in the R211s thinking they'll work out of the box hence not needing the R32s anymore. On top of that ridership was low compared to now so it made sense to retire the R32s on paper since they wouldn't need them. It kinda backfired and now the R46s they wanted to retire or set aside in storage, they have to use them due to the issues with the R211s.

 

 

But it seems too many people don't read well and jump to conclusions and get very aggressive without understanding what people are saying. Nobody wants to sit here and wait 20-30 mins for a train because they have no equipment to run since they are short. There were days where they had the available crew and they had no equipment since they were short on the line. back in 2021-2022. We know the crew shortage is bad but having a shortage of equipment is even more bad. It's been going on for years and it's getting tiring.

 

It's weird that they have been very tight lipped when it comes to the R211s. But I'm not going to sit here and act like things are good when this damn agency wants to f**k with people lives because they can't budget right and want to do sneaky cuts while saying we want $15 from motorists because we suck at budgeting. 

 

2024 is going to be a shitshow and if they can't fix these issues by early next year, It's going to be a problem.

 

 

The decision to retire the R32s in late 2021-early 2022 had nothing to do with the MTA getting overly confident in the R211s. Those cars were never coming back into passenger service anyway, for reasons already explained by at least one of our honorary employees here (You seem to be overlooking that last bit) .

They only returned in summer 2020 due to the R179s being sidelined after the pull apart incident. Once the latter cars returned, the former cars were gradually sidelined over the next month or so, never seeing passenger service again until the weeks long final excursion which took place over a year later.

They were already OOS for 7-8 months prior to the first R211 hitting MTA property. Even though they were yet to be offically retired, it was already clear by then that MTA had made their final decision.

Just wanted to clear things up with you so that you know where I stand.

[R32 3838]

5 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

The decision to retire the R32s in late 2021-early 2022 had nothing to do with the MTA getting overly confident in the R211s. Those cars were never coming back into passenger service anyway, for reasons already explained by at least one of our honorary employees here (You seem to be overlooking that last bit) .

They only returned in summer 2020 due to the R179s being sidelined after the pull apart incident. Once the latter cars returned, the former cars were gradually sidelined over the next month or so, never seeing passenger service again until the weeks long final excursion which took place over a year later.

They were already OOS for 7-8 months prior to the first R211 hitting MTA property. Even though they were yet to be offically retired, it was already clear by then that MTA had made their final decision.

Just wanted to clear things up with you so that you know where I stand.

A sizable group of R32s were still getting inspections until 2021, They were in storage after they ran on the / when the R179s re-entered service. They kept them in storage and continued to inspect the cars just in case the R179s crapped the bed again or for any other emergency. They also restored full and service in 2021 a few months before they decided to retire them. The main reason why they weren't needed was because of the crew shortage and covid unless an emergency happened again like what happened to the R179s if that happened again. The R211s played a big role when they touched the property because at that time projected the cars to start running in passenger service in 2022 (a year after they were delivered) so it made sense to kill them off and retire them rather than to keep inspecting them and training new hires on them. The First 7-8 sets of the Base Order R211s are R32 replacements anyway ( the ones that weren't replaced by the R179s that were supposed to stay in service until 2022 in which they did, they just sat for a year) so it made sense.

 

If you take the R32s out of the picture, The fact still stands that the got too confident in these cars because it's Kawasaki and made some goofball choices and mistakes. Anyone with a brain would know these cars were going to have issues from the jump. The plant was closed for a few months because of covid and people kept leaving the plant for better paying jobs, So they had to keep training new hires at the plant which could lead into QC issues. Also The should have tested the 2nd set (which is the first non-polit set) with the newly designed trucks. This way they could have spotted the issue early way early on. Plus you have to factor in that parts for these trains come from all over the globe so some parts might take longer to ship vs others. which makes me believe that this might be why the sets are slowly coming back into service. Option II is going to be interesting because the price tag for those cars might be more expensive than the base and Option I due to the yen dropping in value.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RandomRider0101]

7 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

A sizable group of R32s were still getting inspections until 2021, They were in storage after they ran on the / when the R179s re-entered service. They kept them in storage and continued to inspect the cars just in case the R179s crapped the bed again or for any other emergency. They also restored full and service in 2021 a few months before they decided to retire them. The main reason why they weren't needed was because of the crew shortage and covid unless an emergency happened again like what happened to the R179s if that happened again. The R211s played a big role when they touched the property because at that time projected the cars to start running in passenger service in 2022 (a year after they were delivered) so it made sense to kill them off and retire them rather than to keep inspecting them and training new hires on them. The First 7-8 sets of the Base Order R211s are R32 replacements anyway ( the ones that weren't replaced by the R179s that were supposed to stay in service until 2022 in which they did, they just sat for a year) so it made sense.

 

If you take the R32s out of the picture, The fact still stands that the got too confident in these cars because it's Kawasaki and made some goofball choices and mistakes. Anyone with a brain would know these cars were going to have issues from the jump. The plant was closed for a few months because of covid and people kept leaving the plant for better paying jobs, So they had to keep training new hires at the plant which could lead into QC issues. Also The should have tested the 2nd set (which is the first non-polit set) with the newly designed trucks. This way they could have spotted the issue early way early on. Plus you have to factor in that parts for these trains come from all over the globe so some parts might take longer to ship vs others. which makes me believe that this might be why the sets are slowly coming back into service. Option II is going to be interesting because the price tag for those cars might be more expensive than the base and Option I due to the yen dropping in value.  

Yeah that was not a smart move on Kawasaki's part. If they were gonna use different trucks for the R211s, they should've started with the pilot set. Or they should've just kept the R160 trucks like someone said before. Now this will be another issue for them to address, which means yet another delay on top of all the other delays. I do really hope they take their time so they can make all the proper & necessary fixes.

Edited December 23, 2023 by RandomRider0101

[Lawrence St]

I wanted to confirm, do the R211's have an internal P-wire system or something? I keep seeing it referenced in technical documents.

[RSMG106]

4070-4074 + 4115-4119 had re-entered service on the .

[Kamen Rider]

Apparently they have enough to make some changes. I am currently on 4105 heading out to work, we just left Broad Channel and we just past a 46 sitting in the Spur.

 

 

[maor458]

5 minutes ago, RSMG106 said:

4070-4074 + 4115-4119 had re-entered service on the .

Now we have 4075-4079, 4080-4084, 4085-4089 & 4090-4094 to re-enter service in the future.

[darkstar8983]

45 minutes ago, maor458 said:

Now we have 4075-4079, 4080-4084, 4085-4089 & 4090-4094 to re-enter service in the future.

4080-4089 will likely be the last set to enter since they were the one to show the flat wheel issue 

[djtoro7]

On 12/22/2023 at 4:20 PM, Ale188 said:

4130-39 was used as a school car on 12/21.

Here is proof! 

 

[Kamen Rider]

I spent... six and a half hours on 4070-04/4110-4114 last night. the AAS is borked on the train. You can set it, but it does not play.

So manual annoucments the entire time, which was good because I got caught up in the mess of a fire at High street. 

 

 

[RobelyBasis]

How many sets are now in service?

[Ale188]

8 minutes ago, RobelyBasis said:

How many sets are now in service?

All but 20 cars I believe

[Chris89292]

8 hours ago, Ale188 said:

All but 20 cars I believe

Need an exact number tbh, I’m also curious into how many sets are actually in service, but I’ve lost track

[Ale188]

13 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

Need an exact number tbh, I’m also curious into how many sets are actually in service, but I’ve lost track

60 cars in service then. 6 sets. 
4060-69; Pilot; never stopped running

4070-74, 4115-19

4095-99, 4105-09

4100-04, 4120-24

4110-14, 4125-29

4130-39; newest set to enter service

4075-79, 4080-84, 4085-89, and 4090-94are still out of service, 4140-49 at Pitkin, Ts at Pitkin, Ss at Clifton, 4150-64 at CIY (assuming they haven’t transferred yet) 4165-4204 confirmed as built, 4205 and beyond are currently being built. That’s all the info you really need as of right now.

[Transit Fans]

21 minutes ago, Ale188 said:

60 cars in service then. 6 sets. 
4060-69; Pilot; never stopped running

4070-74, 4115-19

4095-99, 4105-09

4100-04, 4120-24

4110-14, 4125-29

4130-39; newest set to enter service

4075-79, 4080-84, 4085-89, and 4090-94are still out of service, 4140-49 at Pitkin, Ts at Pitkin, Ss at Clifton, 4150-64 at CIY (assuming they haven’t transferred yet) 4165-4204 confirmed as built, 4205 and beyond are currently being built. That’s all the info you really need as of right now.

Thank you so much for this update on the R211A. I guess by January 2024 they will have all 80 cars which it seems. 

[Transit Fans]

On 12/24/2023 at 4:30 PM, maor458 said:

Now we have 4075-4079, 4080-4084, 4085-4089 & 4090-4094 to re-enter service in the future.

Next set to re-enter service will be 4075-4079 & 4090-4094. Since the 4080s will be the last one to enter service. By January 2024 all 70 production cars will be in service. 

[Transit Fans]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:34 AM, R32 3838 said:

A sizable group of R32s were still getting inspections until 2021, They were in storage after they ran on the / when the R179s re-entered service. They kept them in storage and continued to inspect the cars just in case the R179s crapped the bed again or for any other emergency. They also restored full and service in 2021 a few months before they decided to retire them. The main reason why they weren't needed was because of the crew shortage and covid unless an emergency happened again like what happened to the R179s if that happened again. The R211s played a big role when they touched the property because at that time projected the cars to start running in passenger service in 2022 (a year after they were delivered) so it made sense to kill them off and retire them rather than to keep inspecting them and training new hires on them. The First 7-8 sets of the Base Order R211s are R32 replacements anyway ( the ones that weren't replaced by the R179s that were supposed to stay in service until 2022 in which they did, they just sat for a year) so it made sense.

 

If you take the R32s out of the picture, The fact still stands that the got too confident in these cars because it's Kawasaki and made some goofball choices and mistakes. Anyone with a brain would know these cars were going to have issues from the jump. The plant was closed for a few months because of covid and people kept leaving the plant for better paying jobs, So they had to keep training new hires at the plant which could lead into QC issues. Also The should have tested the 2nd set (which is the first non-polit set) with the newly designed trucks. This way they could have spotted the issue early way early on. Plus you have to factor in that parts for these trains come from all over the globe so some parts might take longer to ship vs others. which makes me believe that this might be why the sets are slowly coming back into service. Option II is going to be interesting because the price tag for those cars might be more expensive than the base and Option I due to the yen dropping in value.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now regarding the R32 the original plan was to keep 110 cars not 70 or 80 cars back in 2020 till 2022 for the R211s to retire them. But of course as we all know the R211 service revenue was push back from September 2022 to March 2023 due to delays on the plant with Kawasaki staff shortages like you mentioned before. Because if Covid they had to remove the R32 due to staff shortages and because the train was not able to handle Covid times because conductors and operator of the train being inside of the car than between the cars it would work for Covid due to distancing them else from the passengers. Which makes sense for the MTA to put them in storage for a year or so to prepare them for the final ceremony run which happen in December 2021 till January 2022. In conclusion the first 11 10 car sets or 110 cars are being retired by R211A for R32. 

[Ale188]

3 hours ago, Transit Fans said:

Next set to re-enter service will be 4075-4079 & 4090-4094. Since the 4080s will be the last one to enter service. By January 2024 all 70 production cars will be in service. 

So...You want them to fix 20 cars in 4 days...got it. Besides that, how do you know if the other cars are even coming back to service by the new year? I just feel like the MTA or Pitkin Yard themselves can't really do so much shit at once since Pit doesn't have a car wash unlike 207 or CIY.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Ale188
I didn't wanna be a dick, so I just added a nice little question.