Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Vulturious]

16 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

Please don't roast me for sharing this weird idea, but

 

Is there a way for Broadway Express trains to go via 60 st tunnel and Broadway Local trains go via 2 Av? Can't the provisional tracks north of 57 st - 7 av that are local be connected to lex av 63 st, and then go to 2 Av?

 

Since SAS has no express tracks and the design is flawed, I coined this idea...

In all honesty, this idea isn't that bad of an idea. I decided to make an edit of how the idea can be implemented:

There are provisions north of 57 St-7 Av that would've had a Broadway local trains split just before a switch north of the station from express to local to run along CPW or Morningside Av or whatever street the BMT wanted to build. I decided to take that idea and use it as another connection to the 63 St line. 

The only issue with this idea is the Broadway local train that is running to 2 Av must be based out of Coney Island, there are direct ways of doing so straight from Montague St tunnel. You can have trains routed via West End or to the Brighton line.

Now that I mention the Brighton line, I have a way of how the routing can run which also de-interlines Dekalb Av:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Bay Parkway/9 Av [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Local, West End Local]
•  Norwood-205 St to Bay Ridge-95 St [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Local]
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local]
•  96 St-2 Av to Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, Brighton Local]
•  () 96 St-2 Av to Brighton Beach [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, Brighton Exp]
•  Forest Hills-71 Av to Coney Island [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, West End Local]

There are some drastic changes in service so let's start of with the Cons:

• Brighton riders lose express access in Manhattan
• they also only have access to 6 Av cross-platform transfers at Dekalb
•  trains are mostly local now
• 4 Av and West End are in a way prone to some delays because of the merge with 2 different trains merging with 2 other trains
• 2 Av runs only local trains

Onto the pros side of things:

• Astoria only has to deal with the  so hopefully no more delays at terminals
• QBL gets a Manhattan express service replacement
• Dekalb Av is de-interlined
• 4 Av riders can get better service with direct access to a full time Manhattan express service
• West End keeps its express service along both 4 Av and in Manhattan
• Broadway is de-interlined

[mrsman]

19 hours ago, Vulturious said:

In all honesty, this idea isn't that bad of an idea. I decided to make an edit of how the idea can be implemented:

There are provisions north of 57 St-7 Av that would've had a Broadway local trains split just before a switch north of the station from express to local to run along CPW or Morningside Av or whatever street the BMT wanted to build. I decided to take that idea and use it as another connection to the 63 St line. 

The only issue with this idea is the Broadway local train that is running to 2 Av must be based out of Coney Island, there are direct ways of doing so straight from Montague St tunnel. You can have trains routed via West End or to the Brighton line.

Now that I mention the Brighton line, I have a way of how the routing can run which also de-interlines Dekalb Av:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Bay Parkway/9 Av [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Local, West End Local]
•  Norwood-205 St to Bay Ridge-95 St [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Local]
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local]
•  96 St-2 Av to Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, Brighton Local]
•  () 96 St-2 Av to Brighton Beach [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, Brighton Exp]
•  Forest Hills-71 Av to Coney Island [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, West End Local]

There are some drastic changes in service so let's start of with the Cons:

• Brighton riders lose express access in Manhattan
• they also only have access to 6 Av cross-platform transfers at Dekalb
•  trains are mostly local now
• 4 Av and West End are in a way prone to some delays because of the merge with 2 different trains merging with 2 other trains
• 2 Av runs only local trains

Onto the pros side of things:

• Astoria only has to deal with the  so hopefully no more delays at terminals
• QBL gets a Manhattan express service replacement
• Dekalb Av is de-interlined
• 4 Av riders can get better service with direct access to a full time Manhattan express service
• West End keeps its express service along both 4 Av and in Manhattan
• Broadway is de-interlined

I do like seeing more deinterlining, but it seems that sending all the Brighton trains into Montague would be a major con.

If we are still going to maintain a Broadway service to Forest Hills, we can maintain a better service pattern allowing every southern Brooklyn train line (except Bay Ridge) with express access to Midtown Manhattan:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, West End Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
•  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island  [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
• ( ) 96 St-2 Av to Brighton Beach [2 Av Local, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Exp] {CI Yard}
•  96 St-2 Av to Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local] {CI Yard}
•   Forest Hills-71 Av to Bay Ridge-95 St  [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local] {Jamaica Yard}
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Bay Parkway/9 Av [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local, West End Local] {CI Yard}

With the above pattern, assume  ,  , and  run 24/7.  will not run weekends or late nights, so  is extended to CI to service West End, while  provides the replacement service for most of the rest of the run and  or late night  covering CPW local.   will run all-times except late nights, when  will only run south of Whitehall, with covering the rest of the route and  or serving Queens.

 

Can something equivalent be done while doing a 57th flip on the Broadway line?  A simple switch of the northern terminals of each Broadway line willl result in a 2nd Ave - Bay Ridge service that has no yard connection.  So we need to do something akin to vanshnookenraggen's plan to add a switch south of 36th on the 4th Ave line to enable 4th Ave express service (originating along Manhattan's 6th Ave) so that Bay Ridge trains can go to 6th Ave and eventually to the Concourse Yard.  Perhaps something like:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Bay Ridge-95 St [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, switch to 4 Av local] {Conc Yard}
•  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island  [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Brighton Beach [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Exp] {CI Yard}
•  Forest Hills-71 Av to Coney Island [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local] {Jamaica Yard or CI Yard}
•  96 St-2 Av to 9 Av/Bay Parkway/Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local, West End Local] {CI Yard}

The biggest downside with the above is forcing all of the West End riders into the Montague tunnel.  But this is better than forcing all Brighton riders into the Montaguge tunnel, because most of the West End stations are closer to alternatives with express service to Manhattan than the Brighton line.  Plus West End riders can transfer at New Utrecht/62 to  service or at 36th for  service.

Another alternative to the above would send trains to West End to provide a local and then splitting  service to provide  trains linking 96th to Coney Island via Sea Beach and  trains linking 96th to 9 Av or Bay Parkway via West End.  This will make Sea Beach the line with only a Montague connection instead of West End.

 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

7 hours ago, mrsman said:

I do like seeing more deinterlining, but it seems that sending all the Brighton trains into Montague would be a major con.

If we are still going to maintain a Broadway service to Forest Hills, we can maintain a better service pattern allowing every southern Brooklyn train line (except Bay Ridge) with express access to Midtown Manhattan:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Coney Island [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, West End Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
•  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island  [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
• ( ) 96 St-2 Av to Brighton Beach [2 Av Local, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Exp] {CI Yard}
•  96 St-2 Av to Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local] {CI Yard}
•   Forest Hills-71 Av to Bay Ridge-95 St  [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local] {Jamaica Yard}
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Bay Parkway/9 Av [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local, West End Local] {CI Yard}

With the above pattern, assume  ,  , and  run 24/7.  will not run weekends or late nights, so  is extended to CI to service West End, while  provides the replacement service for most of the rest of the run and  or late night  covering CPW local.   will run all-times except late nights, when  will only run south of Whitehall, with covering the rest of the route and  or serving Queens.

 

Can something equivalent be done while doing a 57th flip on the Broadway line?  A simple switch of the northern terminals of each Broadway line willl result in a 2nd Ave - Bay Ridge service that has no yard connection.  So we need to do something akin to vanshnookenraggen's plan to add a switch south of 36th on the 4th Ave line to enable 4th Ave express service (originating along Manhattan's 6th Ave) so that Bay Ridge trains can go to 6th Ave and eventually to the Concourse Yard.  Perhaps something like:

•  Bedford Park Blvd/145 St to Bay Ridge-95 St [Concourse Peak Local, CPW Local, 6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, switch to 4 Av local] {Conc Yard}
•  Norwood-205 St to Coney Island  [Concourse Peak Exp, CPW/6 Av Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, 4 Av Exp, Sea Beach Local] {CI Yard or Conc Yard}
•  Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Brighton Beach [Astoria Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Exp] {CI Yard}
•  Forest Hills-71 Av to Coney Island [QBL Local, via 60 St, Broadway Exp, via Manhattan Bridge, Brighton Local] {Jamaica Yard or CI Yard}
•  96 St-2 Av to 9 Av/Bay Parkway/Coney Island [2 Av Local, Broadway Local, via Montague St, 4 Av Local, West End Local] {CI Yard}

The biggest downside with the above is forcing all of the West End riders into the Montague tunnel.  But this is better than forcing all Brighton riders into the Montaguge tunnel, because most of the West End stations are closer to alternatives with express service to Manhattan than the Brighton line.  Plus West End riders can transfer at New Utrecht/62 to  service or at 36th for  service.

Another alternative to the above would send trains to West End to provide a local and then splitting  service to provide  trains linking 96th to Coney Island via Sea Beach and  trains linking 96th to 9 Av or Bay Parkway via West End.  This will make Sea Beach the line with only a Montague connection instead of West End.

 

I like the ,  and  routes in the first scenario and the  route in the  second scenario. I’d prefer for the  to run it from Forest Hills to Whitehall and for the  to be the 4th Ave Local/West End service with a  peak local/express on the West End Line, similar to the  and  services.

Edited May 10, 2022 by T to Dyre Avenue
Clarity

[Vulturious]

Back at it again with some questionable, yet pretty cool proposal:

This idea involves having the  run express along Fulton St with a local train replacing it. Pretty much what's happening is the  is extended to JFK as a direct subway service with the JFK Airtrain converted to subway standards. The JFK Shuttle will most likely not run the Howard Beach branch since that won't be needed anymore.

[Theli11]

7 hours ago, Vulturious said:

This idea involves having the  run express along Fulton St with a local train replacing it. Pretty much what's happening is the  is extended to JFK as a direct subway service with the JFK Airtrain converted to subway standards. The JFK Shuttle will most likely not run the Howard Beach branch since that won't be needed anymore.

The connection wouldn't be bad to have service from Howard Beach to Jamaica. It wouldn't even hurt.

[Eric B]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:10 PM, Vulturious said:

In all honesty, this idea isn't that bad of an idea. I decided to make an edit of how the idea can be implemented:

There are provisions north of 57 St-7 Av that would've had a Broadway local trains split just before a switch north of the station from express to local to run along CPW or Morningside Av or whatever street the BMT wanted to build. I decided to take that idea and use it as another connection to the 63 St line. 

The only issue with this idea is the Broadway local train that is running to 2 Av must be based out of Coney Island, there are direct ways of doing so straight from Montague St tunnel. You can have trains routed via West End or to the Brighton line.

 

Here's how it is aligned now, and what woul have to be done to allow local access to 2nd av. Northbound is easy; it's southbound that would requiring removal of numerous columns and re-supporting the tunnel structure.

[mrsman]

On 5/10/2022 at 9:12 AM, Theli11 said:

The connection wouldn't be bad to have service from Howard Beach to Jamaica. It wouldn't even hurt.

I agree.  If the hypothetical involves working with the already in existence JFK Airtrain and converting it to subway spec, then let's use the entire Airtrain.

I can envision the following train lines:

Local Fulton service from Court to Euclid.  This service will either connect to a new tunnel to Lower Manhattan or possibly as a split from the Montague Tunnel.  This allows for possibilities to conect to 8th Ave local, Broadway local, or 2nd Ave local.  For these purposes, let's assume it is a 2nd Ave train. 

 Fulton express to Far Rockaway

 Fulton express to Ozone Park and thence JFK via Van Wyck Aritrain line.

[K]  Jamaica to JFK via Van Wyck Airtrain line.  This line should allow for a few local stations along Van Wyck at 95 Av, 105 Av, Linden Blvd, Rockaway Blvd, and 133 Av.  133 Av seems to be the closest feasible point for a station to serve the hotels near Belt Parkway.

[H] Rockaway Park to Howard Beach to JFK via Howard Beach Airtrain line.  A small connection should allow for this connection to be made to provide better train services.

If the Queensway (or similar) plan revives Rockaway Branch Service, I can see even greater expansion potential.

For the QBL, assuming current train services, I would make the following changes. 

 instead of moving from express to local platforms after Forest Hills (to serve 75 Av, Briarwood, Sutphin, 169), have  merge to local tracks on new switches east of where RBB splits off from.  This will add one new local station to be served by  , 67th Ave.  Woodhaven will be converted into an express station allowing  and  to stop there.

 QBL local trains will service all local stops until 63rd Dr.  Then both locals will continue onto the RBB tracks with stops at Metropolitan, Myrtle, Jamaica Ave  , Atlantic, Liberty  , Aqueduct, and Howard Beach.  South of Howard Beach,  to Far Rockaway and to Rockaway Park using the existing stops on the line.

 as mentioned above.

 The RBB express tracks will be rehabilitated so that after Rockaway Blvd,  merges onto the RBB express tracks without interfering with  or .   will then only stop at Howard Beach and then a connection to the Airtraing would be built to allow  service into JFK.  Howard Beach to be configured like a normal express station to allow cross platform between QBL-Rockaway service and Fulton express-JFK service.

[K]  Jamaica to JFK via Van Wyck Airtrain line, as mentioned above.

 Since  will serve JFK directly, there would be no need for  to serve it as well.  So  should instead merge with [K] to continue service toward Jamaica.

 

 

[Amiri the subway guy]

Question if the   Skip stop service is so “useless” then why didn’t the MTA get rid of it like the ? Why did the community oppose its removal in 2010 but in all seriousness would having the  by peak way express all the way from Jamaica center to Marcy Avenue or at least from Broadway Junction be more realible 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Amiri the subway guy

[LGA Link N Train]

8 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Question if the   Skip stop service is so “useless” then why didn’t the MTA get rid of it like the ? Why did the community oppose its removal in 2010 but in all seriousness would having the  by peak way express all the way from Jamaica center to Marcy Avenue or at least from Broadway Junction be more realible 

Infrastructure 

[MTA Researcher]

All righty I am back with an idea

 

 207 - FR: CPW/8 Av/Fulton St Exp - All Times except Nights

Nights: All Local

 BPB - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl - Weekdays

Weekends and Nights: No Service

 JC - Lefferts: QBL/8 Av Exp via 53rd St - Fulton St Lcl - All Times except Nights

Nights: JC - WTC: All Local - (Shuttle: Euclid Av - Lefferts)

 

 205 - CI: Concourse Exp (peak direction) CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Lcl - Weekdays

Weekends and Late Nights: Concourse Lcl

 179 - CI: QBL Exp via 53rd St - 6 Av Lcl via Culver - All Times

 71 Av - Brighton Beach: QBL Lcl via 63rd St - 6 Av/Brighton Exp - Weekdays

Weekends and Late Nights: No Service

 

 Astoria - CI: Astoria Lcl via 60 St - Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - All Times except Nights

Nights: All Local via Manhattan Bridge

 71 Av - 95 St: QBL Lcl via 60 St - Bway/4 Av Exp (4 Av Lcl south of 36 St via vanshook switch proposal) via Manhattan Bridge - All Times except Nights

Nights: Whitehall St - 95 St: All Local

 168 - CI: CPW/Bway/4 Av Lcl via Montague/West End - All Times except Nights

Nights: 96 St/2 Av - CI: All Local via 57 St/7 Av Flip

[X] 96 St/2 Av - Bay Pkwy: 2 Av/Bway Lcl via 57 St/7 Av Flip - 4 Av Lcl via Montague/West End Exp (peak direction) - Weekdays

Weekends: 96 St/2 Av - 9 Av: All Local

Nights: No Service

 

Well I heard that  skip stop service is useful, so we will keep it. Now I left out the M train because I don’t know where to put it. Hey  @Vulturious you once said in another thread that the Brown M can’t come back unless some new connection opens up… May you please tell me more about this connection?

[Vulturious]

11 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

All righty I am back with an idea

 

 207 - FR: CPW/8 Av/Fulton St Exp - All Times except Nights

Nights: All Local

 BPB - WTC: CPW/8 Av Lcl - Weekdays

Weekends and Nights: No Service

 JC - Lefferts: QBL/8 Av Exp via 53rd St - Fulton St Lcl - All Times except Nights

Nights: JC - WTC: All Local - (Shuttle: Euclid Av - Lefferts)

 

 205 - CI: Concourse Exp (peak direction) CPW/6 Av Exp - Brighton Lcl - Weekdays

Weekends and Late Nights: Concourse Lcl

 179 - CI: QBL Exp via 53rd St - 6 Av Lcl via Culver - All Times

 71 Av - Brighton Beach: QBL Lcl via 63rd St - 6 Av/Brighton Exp - Weekdays

Weekends and Late Nights: No Service

 

 Astoria - CI: Astoria Lcl via 60 St - Bway/4 Av Exp via Sea Beach - All Times except Nights

Nights: All Local via Manhattan Bridge

 71 Av - 95 St: QBL Lcl via 60 St - Bway/4 Av Exp (4 Av Lcl south of 36 St via vanshook switch proposal) via Manhattan Bridge - All Times except Nights

Nights: Whitehall St - 95 St: All Local

 168 - CI: CPW/Bway/4 Av Lcl via Montague/West End - All Times except Nights

Nights: 96 St/2 Av - CI: All Local via 57 St/7 Av Flip

[X] 96 St/2 Av - Bay Pkwy: 2 Av/Bway Lcl via 57 St/7 Av Flip - 4 Av Lcl via Montague/West End Exp (peak direction) - Weekdays

Weekends: 96 St/2 Av - 9 Av: All Local

Nights: No Service

 

Well I heard that  skip stop service is useful, so we will keep it. Now I left out the M train because I don’t know where to put it. Hey  @Vulturious you once said in another thread that the Brown M can’t come back unless some new connection opens up… May you please tell me more about this connection?

I don't think any new connection can be made at all now that I think about it. The  has basically become a vital service giving that direct connection from the Eastern division heading into Midtown. Sure the  could do that, but it's a good alternative, especially since the  is a very crowded line.

As for the other services:

•  trains shouldn't be running anywhere east of Euclid Av. Unless there is another service that is taking over the Fulton St local that allows for  trains to run to Lefferts, it's best cut back the  to Euclid Av. Especially since there would be another merge between the  and .
• I'm going to assume that the  is rerouted via 63 St other times the  isn't running around which would make sense because there isn't anything that is serving 63 St during those times. 
• I don't think there's a need to run the  via West End anymore with service running to 168 St. The Vanshnook method would only apply if it involves Astoria because it doesn't have a yard access anywhere else other than Coney Island. The  could easily just run to Bay Ridge and have the  can simply take over West End. Since the  isn't going to be running around during weekends, the  can just stay running to 168 St because nothing else is running local along CPW during the weekend with it cutting back to Whitehall late nights. Going back to the , during late nights it can run to 96 St as a replacement to the X train.

With all that being said, there are some downsides to what I said as well as your version.

• SAS doesn't have a way to turn back trains during weekends because the  is still going to 168 St and cut back late nights. 
• 50 St upper level is basically abandoned outside of weekday service, riders along CPW and 8 Av lose that direct local access.
• As I said earlier, the  not running around hurts ridership giving missed opportunities to run any kind of trains into Midtown from Northern Brooklyn and vice versa.
• Already mentioned the  merging with the  and vice versa in Queens to Euclid Av.
• Brighton riders much prefer Broadway service, I haven't heard otherwise from anyone I spoke to or heard about rider preference when it comes to Brighton.

I don't think I have much else to say really, this idea is pretty though out for the most part with the exception of a some things as mentioned.

[MTA Researcher]

10 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Brighton riders much prefer Broadway service, I haven't heard otherwise from anyone I spoke to or heard about rider preference when it comes to Brighton.

But if we put 6 Av via 4 Av and Bway via Brighton, then going to Dekalb Av there’s no cross platform transfer between 6 Av and Bway. Also Sea Beach riders love Bway line.

~~~~~

As for your other notes…. Thanks for pointing that out. I will figure something out. @Vulturious you really are a good MTA Analyzer.

[LGA Link N Train]

Simple Proposal to improve the Line. One that's been discussed before

- Rebuild Essex Street Station, either to ease the curves on the Eastern End of the station coming from the Bridge or build over J3-4 to create one big Island Platform.

- (Optional) Widen the curve by Marcy and relocate the station a bit to the West so it sits on top of the Bus Terminal

- Extend the Platforms of Marcy (if the curve remains the same), Hewes, Lorimer, and Flushing (no Union Avenue Stop because the It in between Flushing and Lorimer even though I like that idea)

- Rebuild Myrtle Junction and widen the platforms (self-explanatory)

- Extend all Platforms between Myrtle Upper Level and Metropolitan

- Rearrange Yard tracks so that it can store more 10 car trains (maybe even 5 Car Trains) 

- relocate X-over to just north of the bridge in order to allow for a Metropolitan Avenue Station Extension and relocation of the dispatch tower. 

- Might as well upgrade stations that are not already ADA-Accessible to ADA standards and leave provision for CBTC in the process.

Benefits: 10% Added Capacity on QBL, 6th Avenue and Myrtle Lines. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by LaGuardia Link N Tra

[ActiveCity]

3 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Simple Proposal to improve the Line. One that's been discussed before

- Rebuild Essex Street Station, either to ease the curves on the Eastern End of the station coming from the Bridge or build over J3-4 to create one big Island Platform.

- (Optional) Widen the curve by Marcy and relocate the station a bit to the West so it sits on top of the Bus Terminal

- Extend the Platforms of Hewes, Lorimer, and Flushing (no Union Avenue Stop because the It in between Flushing and Lorimer even though I like that idea)

- Rebuild Myrtle Junction and widen the platforms (self-explanatory)

- Extend all Platforms between Myrtle Upper Level and Metropolitan

- Rearrange Yard tracks so that it can store more 10 car trains (maybe even 5 Car Trains) 

- relocate X-over to just north of the bridge in order to allow for a Metropolitan Avenue Station Extension and relocation of the dispatch tower. 

- Might as well upgrade stations that are not already ADA-Accessible to ADA standards and leave provision for CBTC in the process.
 

The Essex St station on the BMT Nassau St line was supposed to have 2 side platforms, and 1 island platform similar to the Atlantic Av station on the IRT Eastern Parkway line. Essentially, this would have made the BMT Nassau St line a 4 track mainline. The 2 inner tracks were to be used by trains that ran on the BMT Broadway-Brooklyn line. Unfortunately, no one knows where the outer tracks would have continued on from there. In my opinion, I think the outer tracks were a provision to connect with the unfinished IND South 4th St line. Who knows?

[Amiri the subway guy]

 Here’s a idea I got to extend the  to lefferts blvd without causing much inconvenience. Extend the  to Brooklyn and then build a new crossover between court street and Hoyt street. The  runs local to Euclid Avenue and the  is moved to the express tracks and is extended to Lefferts Blvd. All  are diverted to far rockway and rockway park. The  is weekdays only so

weekends 

 no service use  

 local in Brooklyn shorts turns Euclid Avenue 

 also goes to lefferts blvd 

Late nights 

 

 no service use  

 no service use  

 Fully local all diverted to far rockway. (lefferts shuttle)  

The  is a much better option to go to Fulton street line. So once phase 4 is finished a new tunnel will be build bring 2nd Avenue trains to Euclid Avenue.

 short term

 long term
 

The  would use the court street museum to connect to Fulton street line and run to Euclid Avenue via Fulton street local. 
 

late nights

 local 

 shuttle bettween Euclid Avenue and lefferts blvd 

 only runs to Hoyt Street

weekends

 local in Brooklyn shorts turns Euclid Avenue 

 also goes to lefferts blvd 

 only runs to Hoyt Street

Edited May 23, 2022 by Amiri the subway guy

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

 Here’s a idea I got to extend the  to lefferts blvd without causing much inconvenience. Extend the  to Brooklyn and then build a new crossover between court street and Hoyt street. The  runs local to Euclid Avenue and the  is moved to the express tracks and is extended to Lefferts Blvd. All  are diverted to far rockway and rockway park. The  is weekdays only so

weekends 

 no service use  

 local in Brooklyn shorts turns Euclid Avenue 

 also goes to lefferts blvd 

Late nights 

 

 no service use  

 no service use  

 Fully local all diverted to far rockway. (lefferts shuttle)  

The  is a much better option to go to Fulton street line. So once phase 4 is finished a new tunnel will be build bring 2nd Avenue trains to Euclid Avenue.

 short term

 long term
 

The  would use the court street museum to connect to Fulton street line and run to Euclid Avenue via Fulton street local. 
 

late nights

 local 

 shuttle bettween Euclid Avenue and lefferts blvd 

 only runs to Hoyt Street

weekends

 local in Brooklyn shorts turns Euclid Avenue 

 also goes to lefferts blvd 

 only runs to Hoyt Street

The issue with creating a new tunnel from where you are proposing the new connection is the line is in a way like right next to the  tunnels.

[BreeddekalbL]

Quick question in terms of a future extension 

How far is the lirr line from the tail tracks and i bet they won't have to do much tunneling? Cause the track map makes it look like its near by 

[ActiveCity]

I made an interesting subway line on google maps that I put together. I called it the IND/BMT Northeast Queens Crosstown line. This subway line would consist of 4 tracks from Havemeyer St/South 4th St in Brooklyn, to Parsons Blvd/Horace Harding Expressway in Queens. Under my plans, the C train will run local at all times, while the J train will run express at all times. If you're wondering how Utica Avenue will be serviced, then it'll be serviced by the 2 train. The reason I bought that up is because there were plans for both the IND and BMT to serve Utica Avenue as well. If you have any questions regarding this proposal, just hit me up and I'll be very happy to answer them. Here is the link to my map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=17csrUbRj6083etn7Jgx88wljljtpK5o&usp=sharing

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by ActiveCity

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, ActiveCity said:

I made an interesting subway line on google maps that I put together. I called it the IND/BMT Northeast Queens Crosstown line. This subway line would consist of 4 tracks from Havemeyer St/South 4th St in Brooklyn, to Parsons Blvd/Horace Harding Expressway in Queens. Under my plans, the C train will run local at all times, while the J train will run express at all times. If you're wondering how Utica Avenue will be serviced, then it'll be serviced by the 2 train. The reason I bought that up is because there were plans for both the IND and BMT to serve Utica Avenue as well. If you have any questions regarding this proposal, just hit me up and I'll be very happy to answer them. Here is the link to my map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=17csrUbRj6083etn7Jgx88wljljtpK5o&usp=sharing

 

Yeah I got few:

• Why the hell is West End shafted to run a completely different line that isn't running towards midtown? What reason does the  have to run back into South Brooklyn and completely replace a line that already is very much liked and had for a very long time (aside from the fact that even with the  that ran along West End as well as the  which both allowed for direct service into midtown Manhattan)?  
• What exactly is replacing the  along Fulton St? Assuming that the  isn't running on it's own, the  must've been extended and most likely running express with the  in Manhattan to not have some weird merging issue going on with the .
• What is running along the former  line, would it still exist or be replaced? If it's replaced, would that mean the Myrtle Av line is also gone, too? I would assume the  reverted back to the  in this scenario. Hopefully you did something with the  and that is by extending it into South Brooklyn to terminate with the  allowing the  to run express in Brooklyn whenever the  is around.

[MTA Researcher]

@Vulturious

I have a question, where is the proof that Brighton prefers Broadway over 6 Av?

If I see undeniable evidence; I will believe you. Please Show Me!

[Vulturious]

2 hours ago, MTA Researcher said:

@Vulturious

I have a question, where is the proof that Brighton prefers Broadway over 6 Av?

If I see undeniable evidence; I will believe you. Please Show Me!

This is more of me hearing a lot of people, those that take the  and me asking them what they prefer. This also includes what is currently running along Brighton right now, that being the  for local service. If it was the opposite, the  would've been the full time line running around or maybe the , depending on what the MTA would've kept.

[ActiveCity]

6 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Yeah I got few:

• Why the hell is West End shafted to run a completely different line that isn't running towards midtown? What reason does the  have to run back into South Brooklyn and completely replace a line that already is very much liked and had for a very long time (aside from the fact that even with the  that ran along West End as well as the  which both allowed for direct service into midtown Manhattan)?  
• What exactly is replacing the  along Fulton St? Assuming that the  isn't running on it's own, the  must've been extended and most likely running express with the  in Manhattan to not have some weird merging issue going on with the .
• What is running along the former  line, would it still exist or be replaced? If it's replaced, would that mean the Myrtle Av line is also gone, too? I would assume the  reverted back to the  in this scenario. Hopefully you did something with the  and that is by extending it into South Brooklyn to terminate with the  allowing the  to run express in Brooklyn whenever the  is around.

The would be replaced by the (K). The would be an additional 8th Avenue express service along with the (A). The would run from Norwood 205th St, to Euclid Avenue via Fulton St local. The and will continue to run on the Broadway Brooklyn elevated, except they will be using the express tracks all the way from Chambers St to Essex St, where it would then run on the Williamsburg Bridge. The reconstruction of the Chrystie St connection is required. If you didn't know, there are an extra set of tracks and platforms on Nassau St that aren't used for passenger service. Instead of wasting money on a new set of tunnels and track, I decided to use the existing ones at Canal St, Bowery, and Chambers St. The would terminate at Chambers St on the express tracks, while the would continue to use the local tracks. In addition, a new side platform would need to be built at Essex St in order for the to meet up with the at Havemeyer St.

[MTA Researcher]

4 minutes ago, ActiveCity said:

The would be replaced by the (K). The would be an additional 8th Avenue express service along with the (A). The would run from Norwood 205th St, to Euclid Avenue via Fulton St local. The and will continue to run on the Broadway Brooklyn elevated, except they will be using the express tracks all the way from Chambers St to Essex St, where it would then run on the Williamsburg Bridge. The reconstruction of the Chrystie St connection is required. If you didn't know, there are an extra set of tracks and platforms on Nassau St that aren't used for passenger service. Instead of wasting money on a new set of tunnels and track, I decided to use the existing ones at Canal St, Bowery, and Chambers St. The would terminate at Chambers St on the express tracks, while the would continue to use the local tracks. In addition, a new side platform would need to be built at Essex St in order for the to meet up with the at Havemeyer St.

So are you planning on bringing back brown M?

[ActiveCity]

3 minutes ago, MTA Researcher said:

So are you planning on bringing back brown M?

No, the train will continue to be orange. However, the reason why it needs to be reconstructed is because the bellmouth at Essex St is in the way of my  train plans. During the reconstruction of the Northbound bellmouth at Chrystie St, the orange will be terminating at 2nd Avenue.

Edited May 31, 2022 by ActiveCity

[Vulturious]

8 hours ago, ActiveCity said:

The would be replaced by the (K). The would be an additional 8th Avenue express service along with the (A). The would run from Norwood 205th St, to Euclid Avenue via Fulton St local. The and will continue to run on the Broadway Brooklyn elevated, except they will be using the express tracks all the way from Chambers St to Essex St, where it would then run on the Williamsburg Bridge. The reconstruction of the Chrystie St connection is required. If you didn't know, there are an extra set of tracks and platforms on Nassau St that aren't used for passenger service. Instead of wasting money on a new set of tunnels and track, I decided to use the existing ones at Canal St, Bowery, and Chambers St. The would terminate at Chambers St on the express tracks, while the would continue to use the local tracks. In addition, a new side platform would need to be built at Essex St in order for the to meet up with the at Havemeyer St.

Ok... that doesn't answer my first question about why the  replacing service along West End? The only kind of answer that I have to come up with myself is because of the Chrystie St reconstruction. However, a Broadway line like the could've easily replaced West End service instead of the  like it did during the Manhattan Bridge reconstruction. Just implement the 2001-2004 service changes, either the  runs local or the  back to local anyway.

This just raises more questions:

• Why is the Chrystie St connection going through a reconstruction?
• What's the point in express service along Nassau St?
• Where is the  even running now?