Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

Armandito · October 3, 2020

9 hours ago, engineerboy6561 said:

Usually for that specific plan I bring a four-track trunk up to Norwood/205 St, turn the local trains there, and then run a three-track line carrying the and the 2 Av express along Gun Hill to Bay Plaza, with connections for the at White Plains Rd and the at Seymour Av, with the goal of providing people in the East Bronx east- and west-side access. By running only the expresses out that far we dramatically cut access times to East and West midtown (the is an hour from Wakefield to Times Sq on the schedule, and the is 45 minutes from Dyre to Grand Central; the is 35 minutes from Norwood to 34 St, and an extension to Bay Plaza would likely add 9-12 mins on to that, and I figure a 2 Av express would be about even with the or even a bit faster). All told that would do Williamsbridge to Midtown in 35-38 minutes via the IND rather than 52ish minutes via IRT, and the 2 Av setup would essentially pull a huge chunk of the people heading from the western half of the Bronx to the hospitals on the east side. I'm figuring from Williamsbridge to Tisch or Beth Israel would be eleven stops (Gun Hill Rd/WPR, Norwood, Fordham, Tremont, 163, 149, 125, 86, 59, 42, 14) on 2 Av as opposed to fourteen on the IRT, and faster between the stops because there wouldn't be the constant backups due to overcrowding that you'd see on the Lex.

Here's the last completed draft of my proposal: 45 new IND tph into the Bronx (30 via 3 Av, 15 via Boston Rd/Amtrak trunk, 30 crosstown tph on Gun Hill), 60tph on 2 Av, 60tph into Williamsburg, 30tph to Jamaica Center and SE Queens, 45tph along Northern Blvd west of Junction Bl, 30tph from Junction Bl to Bell Blvd.

Your stops along Northern Boulevard are too many and too closely spaced together. Even if the IND were to have already built a Northern Boulevard subway to Bayside, the stops would be more widely spaced out, therefore mirroring today's trend of faster local-only service as opposed to adding in an express alongside it. My H train proposal does just that, and this service is its own route that doesn't interline with any other existing services: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1xxOviuFLs1P8LiFK-DurKk2yPp54nKbV&ll=40.76102947828557%2C-73.82188059522302&z=14

engineerboy6561 · October 3, 2020

9 minutes ago, Armandito said:

Your stops along Northern Boulevard are too many and too closely spaced together. Even if the IND were to have already built a Northern Boulevard subway to Bayside, the stops would be more widely spaced out, therefore mirroring today's trend of faster local-only service as opposed to adding in an express alongside it. My H train proposal does just that, and this service is its own route that doesn't interline with any other existing services: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1xxOviuFLs1P8LiFK-DurKk2yPp54nKbV&ll=40.76102947828557%2C-73.82188059522302&z=14

I think it's worth the investment to have at least one four-track trunk in Northern Queens; I set my proposal up this way because it gives me the track capacity to run 60tph into Flushing should we need it, and I could see running your crosstown as an additional local service on that trunk. Just looking at the relative populaiton densities on a census map of NYC, it would probably make more sense to put a four-track trunk on Northern and then a two- or three-track local line along Astoria Blvd (and Northern Blvd also lets you take the (N) and (Q) both off Broadway local, letting you bump the (W) to 15-20tph), while still tying into the larger system. I tend not to be a fan of having standalone corridors as opposed to integrating things into a wider system.

Armandito · October 3, 2020

54 minutes ago, engineerboy6561 said:

I think it's worth the investment to have at least one four-track trunk in Northern Queens; I set my proposal up this way because it gives me the track capacity to run 60tph into Flushing should we need it, and I could see running your crosstown as an additional local service on that trunk. Just looking at the relative populaiton densities on a census map of NYC, it would probably make more sense to put a four-track trunk on Northern and then a two- or three-track local line along Astoria Blvd (and Northern Blvd also lets you take the and both off Broadway local, letting you bump the to 15-20tph), while still tying into the larger system. I tend not to be a fan of having standalone corridors as opposed to integrating things into a wider system.

My plan calls for a three-track configuration between Broadway and Bell Boulevard with an underground layup yard east of the latter station. I don't have plans for an express service but these would be provisional express stops: Bell Boulevard, Main-Union Streets, Junction Boulevard, and 54th Street-Broadway.

There would also be a maintenance facility built at the site of the College Point Corporate Park, which would serve as the main yard for H trains.

LGA Link N Train · October 3, 2020

2 hours ago, Armandito said:

Your stops along Northern Boulevard are too many and too closely spaced together. Even if the IND were to have already built a Northern Boulevard subway to Bayside, the stops would be more widely spaced out, therefore mirroring today's trend of faster local-only service as opposed to adding in an express alongside it. My H train proposal does just that, and this service is its own route that doesn't interline with any other existing services: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1xxOviuFLs1P8LiFK-DurKk2yPp54nKbV&ll=40.76102947828557%2C-73.82188059522302&z=14

I would advise adding an additonal stop between the BQE and Junction Blvd just so that things could be a bitmore evenly spaced out

Armandito · October 3, 2020

14 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I would advise adding an additonal stop between the BQE and Junction Blvd just so that things could be a bitmore evenly spaced out

What street could be an ideal location for an additional stop?

bobtehpanda · October 3, 2020

21 minutes ago, Armandito said:

What street could be an ideal location for an additional stop?

Personally I would move your 62 St stop to 74 St. 74 St has a bus on it. http://web.mta.info/nyct/maps/busqns.pdf

I also, personally, feel like due to constructability issues with the Northern Blvd express tracks, would route your subway through Sunnyside Yard with only one stop at wherever Sunnyside LIRR is supposed to go. That section of Northern Blvd is well covered by the existing stations.

Edited October 3, 2020 by bobtehpanda

Reptile · October 3, 2020

Deleted

Edited October 3, 2020 by Reptile
Posted the same idea as someone else

Armandito · October 3, 2020

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

Personally I would move your 62 St stop to 74 St. 74 St has a bus on it. http://web.mta.info/nyct/maps/busqns.pdf

I'd leave 62 St there and add stops at 74 St and 102 St to serve the Q47 and Q23 routes, respectively. The reason I want to keep 62 St is so the (H) could have an easy transfer to the proposed Triboro RX line nearby, if it ever comes to life.

Armandito · October 4, 2020

11 hours ago, Armandito said:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1xxOviuFLs1P8LiFK-DurKk2yPp54nKbV&ll=40.76102947828557%2C-73.82188059522302&z=14

UPDATE: Three more stops have been added and some existing ones have been relocated and/or renamed. Would it be ideal to add in express service this time, or would it be fine as an all-local route?

Edited October 4, 2020 by Armandito

Theli11 · October 4, 2020

53 minutes ago, Armandito said:

UPDATE: Three more stops have been added and some existing ones have been relocated and/or renamed. Would it be ideal to add in express service this time, or would it be fine as an all-local route?

Express service, I'm not sure if the express service should be the (H) or a separate service. Maybe the (H) can be divided into (H) and (K) , (H) runs local to 42 - 10th Av. And the (K) runs express to 72 - Amsterdam Av.

Armandito · October 4, 2020

9 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Express service, I'm not sure if the express service should be the or a separate service. Maybe the can be divided into and , runs local to 42 - 10th Av. And the runs express to 72 - Amsterdam Av.

Why not just run a diamond (H) along the same route to Hudson Yards?

Edited October 4, 2020 by Armandito

T to Dyre Avenue · October 4, 2020

On 9/30/2020 at 2:21 PM, Kharn501 said:

As someone who used to live on Northern Blvd that subway would be a godsend as I hated having to walk south to reach my station. Has the MTA ever had discussions/plans on paper in the past to put a subway on Northern just out of curiosity?

Wouldn't it be better to terminate it at LGA, making it a true "air train", and just expand the 7 to serve bayside on the other hand?

I fully agree and I live in Whitestone. Car traffic on Northern is just plain horrible, both east and west of Flushing, though west is a lot worse. Personally, I’d like for this H service (should such a proposal ever be given serious consideration) to continue east of Flushing. It would serve many more people if it continues east toward Bayside, rather turning north to LGA.

On 10/3/2020 at 1:19 PM, Armandito said:

My plan calls for a three-track configuration between Broadway and Bell Boulevard with an underground layup yard east of the latter station. I don't have plans for an express service but these would be provisional express stops: Bell Boulevard, Main-Union Streets, Junction Boulevard, and 54th Street-Broadway.

There would also be a maintenance facility built at the site of the College Point Corporate Park, which would serve as the main yard for H trains.

I think a three-track configuration is good, though the downside is that there is less frequent service in peak direction at the local stations

5 hours ago, Armandito said:

Why not just run a diamond along the same route to Hudson Yards?

I’d prefer that too, rather than bifurcate the line at 10th Avenue. I think subway service to 72nd-Amsterdam can be handled by an extended (L) . A bifurcated H/K line would have a segment running well below capacity both north and south of 50th St.

Edited October 4, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

Armandito · October 4, 2020

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I fully agree and I live in Whitestone. Car traffic on Northern is just plain horrible, both east and west of Flushing, though west is a lot worse. Personally, I’d like for this H service (should such a proposal ever be given serious consideration) to continue east of Flushing. It would serve many more people if it continues east toward Bayside, rather turning north to LGA.

I think a three-track configuration is good, though the downside is that there is less frequent service in peak direction at the local stations

I’d prefer that too, rather than bifurcate the line at 10th Avenue. I think subway service to 72nd-Amsterdam can be handled by an extended .

Edited October 4, 2020 by Armandito

Theli11 · October 4, 2020

9 minutes ago, Armandito said:

I'd perfer that it run to 42 - 10 Av (with a (7) transfer.) I'm sure that it'll be hard to build under the (7) so ending the line at 42 - 10th Av would be easier. You should also remove 100-102, 83-85, and 62 Sts to space out local stops. (though with the express service it's whatever. There should also be provisions for LGA service.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Theli11

LGA Link N Train · October 4, 2020

55 minutes ago, Armandito said:

I like this proposal a lot. So Ima break it down in the best way I can.

1. I like the addition of adding a yard near Linden Place and 20th Avenue. I don't recall anyone ever proposing a yard there, so kudos to you on that idea! Although, I would adjust the track layout as to how trains will enter/exit the Yard. I'd have the inerlocking layout to resemble something similar to Forest Hills/71st and Kew Gardens where the tracks to enter the yard are in between the other tracks.

2. I would space out the stops along Northern Blvd. I'd shave off 62nd, 102/103rd, and 156/158. All of the other stops are fine.

3. for 50th Street, I would Ommit the 10th Avenue stop in favor of having your line running south along 10th Avenue in case a 10th Avenue Line comes around.

Armandito · October 4, 2020

34 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I like this proposal a lot. So Ima break it down in the best way I can.

1. I like the addition of adding a yard near Linden Place and 20th Avenue. I don't recall anyone ever proposing a yard there, so kudos to you on that idea! Although, I would adjust the track layout as to how trains will enter/exit the Yard. I'd have the inerlocking layout to resemble something similar to Forest Hills/71st and Kew Gardens where the tracks to enter the yard are in between the other tracks.

2. I would space out the stops along Northern Blvd. I'd shave off 62nd, 102/103rd, and 156/158. All of the other stops are fine.

3. for 50th Street, I would Ommit the 10th Avenue stop in favor of having your line running south along 10th Avenue in case a 10th Avenue Line comes around.

What's another advantage of having the route along Tenth Avenue instead of Eleventh Avenue? Note that the drawback here is that there won't be a transfer to the (7) in Manhattan anymore.

Lex · October 4, 2020

12 minutes ago, Armandito said:

What's another advantage of having the route along Tenth Avenue instead of Eleventh Avenue? Note that the drawback here is that there won't be a transfer to the in Manhattan anymore.

That could be rectified by building a station at 10th Avenue.

Honestly, I don't see the value in establishing any transfer of the sort, save for a subway line being built under 10th Avenue south of 34th Street.

Armandito · October 4, 2020

5 minutes ago, Lex said:

That could be rectified by building a station at 10th Avenue.

Honestly, I don't see the value in establishing any transfer of the sort, save for a subway line being built under 10th Avenue south of 34th Street.

You mean, have the (H) terminate at 42 St/10 Av rather than to Hudson Yards like @LaGuardia Link N Tra said?

Theli11 · October 4, 2020

1 minute ago, Lex said:

That could be rectified by building a station at 10th Avenue.

Honestly, I don't see the value in establishing any transfer of the sort, save for a subway line being built under 10th Avenue south of 34th Street.

There's also the fact that on 10th Av, there's no other train there. If you put it on 11th Av, you'll build under the (7) train. You also can't extend the (H) that far past 34 St (Note the (7) only extends to 25 St, which heavily limits the station.

Just now, Armandito said:

You mean, have the terminate at 42 St/10 Av rather than to Hudson Yards like @LaGuardia Link N Tra said?

If you have the (H) terminate at 42 - 10th Av, it's less building and still does the same job. Connecting to the (7) and has provisions. It's so much better than the terminal at Hudson Yards.

Armandito · October 4, 2020

3 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

There's also the fact that on 10th Av, there's no other train there. If you put it on 11th Av, you'll build under the train. You also can't extend the that far past 34 St (Note the only extends to 25 St, which heavily limits the station.

If you have the terminate at 42 - 10th Av, it's less building and still does the same job. Connecting to the and has provisions. It's so much better than the terminal at Hudson Yards.

I'll be editing the route and track maps soon. Stay tuned 👌

Reptile · October 5, 2020

16 hours ago, Armandito said:

Very nice but I think it should be routed via Sunnyside Yards, and extend into NJ or down Tenth Ave. Do you think it would be best to have other lines like the (G) on these tracks or should it stay the way the (L) (7) are (no interlining for max TPH)

Armandito · October 5, 2020

12 minutes ago, Reptile said:

Very nice but I think it should be routed via Sunnyside Yards, and extend into NJ or down Tenth Ave. Do you think it would be best to have other lines like the on these tracks or should it stay the way the are (no interlining for max TPH)

Since this is likely to be a busy line, I'd rather have it as its own route with no interlining. (Stay tuned as I'm in the process of editing the track map)

Theli11 · October 5, 2020

1 hour ago, Reptile said:

Very nice but I think it should be routed via Sunnyside Yards, and extend into NJ or down Tenth Ave. Do you think it would be best to have other lines like the on these tracks or should it stay the way the are (no interlining for max TPH)

Thinking about it more, the (G) won't serve that much of the line and won't bring too many benefits by extending it. I think that the (R) train can run on Northern and serve LGA. If this were to happen, you'd have to extend the (W) and cut the (R) at Whitehall.

Bklyn Bound 2 Local · October 5, 2020

(K)

14th St - Canarsie Express - Jamaica Local

Northern Terminus: Jamaica Center - 168th St

Southern Terminus: 8th Avenue - 14th Street

Stops

Jamaica Center - 168th St (E) (K) (J) (Z)

Parsons Blvd (E) (K) (J) (Z)

Sutphin Blvd - Archer Ave - JFK (E) (K) (J) (Z) (MTA) LIRR

121st St (K) (J) (Z)

111th St (K) (J) (Z)

104th St (K) (J) (Z)

Woodhaven Blvd (K) (J) (Z)

85th St - Forest Park (K) (J) (Z)

75th St - Elderts Ln (K) (J) (Z)

Forest Park (K)

Cooper Ave (K)

Halsey St (L) (K)

Myrtle - Wyckoffs Avs (K) (L) (M)

DeKalb Ave (L)

Jefferson St (L)

Morgan Ave (L)

Montrose Ave (K) (L)

Grand St (L)

Graham Ave (L)

Lorimer St (G) (K) (L)

Bedford Ave (K) (L)

1st Ave (L)

3rd Ave (L)

14th St - Union Square (K) (L) (N) (Q) (R) (W) (4) (5) (6)

6th Ave (F) (K) (L) (M)

8th Ave - 14th St (A) (C) (E) (K) (L)

Reptile · October 5, 2020

3 hours ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

14th St - Canarsie Express - Jamaica Local

Northern Terminus: Jamaica Center - 168th St

Southern Terminus: 8th Avenue - 14th Street

Stops

Jamaica Center - 168th St

Parsons Blvd

Sutphin Blvd - Archer Ave - JFK LIRR

121st St

111th St

104th St

Woodhaven Blvd

85th St - Forest Park

75th St - Elderts Ln

Forest Park

Cooper Ave

Halsey St

Myrtle - Wyckoffs Avs

DeKalb Ave

Jefferson St

Morgan Ave

Montrose Ave

Grand St

Graham Ave

Lorimer St

Bedford Ave

1st Ave

3rd Ave

14th St - Union Square

6th Ave

8th Ave - 14th St

The route removes a transfer that doesn't warrant removal, and doesn't stop at the transfer station it removes. It would also interfere in (L) frequency and that line needs all the trains it can get.

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