Community Board 10 demands shuttle buses for Bay Ridge Av closure

[checkmatechamp13]

No it isn't because overall, they've done just that.  The service cuts in 2010 in Brooklyn were mainly to Southern Brooklyn in middle class neighborhoods.  Very little buses were touched in minority neighborhoods in the borough.  They cut or restructured the B2, B4, B31, B37, B64 and the X27 and X28, and it was only because of consistent pressure over the years that many of those lines were restored, so I don't even want to hear it.  

 

B12 in ENY, Q24 in Bushwick, B13 in East Williamsburg, B48 in Crown Heights, and heck since you want to mention the B64 (and X28 for that matter)....Coney Island isn't exactly lily-white either.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

B12 in ENY, Q24 in Bushwick, B13 in East Williamsburg, B48 in Crown Heights, and heck since you want to mention the B64 (and X28 for that matter)....Coney Island isn't exactly lily-white either.

Please.  Both buses are used more in the areas outside of Coney Island.

[checkmatechamp13]

Please.  Both buses are used more in the areas outside of Coney Island.

 

Those were lines that were cut from a minority area of the borough. The B64 was specifically cut back from that area to end at 25th Avenue.

 

And in any case, I'll give you the X28, and maybe the B64 (only because people from other parts of Southern Brooklyn used it to get to/from Coney Island to make connections). So now what about the B12, B13, B48, and Q24?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those were lines that were cut from a minority area of the borough. The B64 was specifically cut back from that area to end at 25th Avenue.

 

And in any case, I'll give you the X28, and maybe the B64 (only because people from other parts of Southern Brooklyn used it to get to/from Coney Island to make connections). So now what about the B12, B13, B48, and Q24?

My point still stands.  The majority of the cuts were to Southern Brooklyn, and not minority neighborhoods.  

[Daniel The Cool]

Yes. When they did some closures between the Rockaways and Rockaway Blvd, they gave riders a Q22/Q52/ transfer. When the runs to South Ferry instead of Brooklyn, they program a South Ferry / Bowling Green walking transfer instead of a shuttle bus between the two.

 

Plus anyone along Bay Ridge Av who would take the B64 to the , can walk to the B70 towards 8 Av or B16 to Ft Hamilton Pkwy or 55 St or walk 6 blocks south to Bay Ridge Pkwy for the B4 to 77 St and avoid a two seat ride. West of Bay Ridge Avenue (which is the majority of ridership at this station I might add) can just take the next B9 instead of the B64.

The closure is irrelevant because it was closed one direction at a time.

[checkmatechamp13]

My point still stands.  The majority of the cuts were to Southern Brooklyn, and not minority neighborhoods.  

 

Yeah sure, it stands because you say it stands. 

 

The closure is irrelevant because it was closed one direction at a time.

 

After Hurricane Sandy, the was shut down completely heading to the Rockaways. At first, all trains ran to Lefferts, and then they started running some trains to Howard Beach and running shuttle buses to Far Rockaway from there. But riders were still permitted to take the Q22-Q52/53- or Q22-Q35- for one fare.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah sure, it stands because you say it stands. 

The number of routes affected speak for themselves.

[RtrainBlues]

The distance from 53rd to the entrance between 58th and 59th is quite short and easily walked.  However, the distance from 69th to 59th/60th is double that distance, and includes an unpleasant and dangerous intersection when crossing 65th St and the highways.  Furthermore, headways on the B9 bus are roughly every 30-40 minutes starting mid-evening, and it doesn't run all night.  This is not an acceptable level of service as an alternative to the R train.  If you shut down the R train, you have to run shuttle buses at "at least" the same frequency as the R train (perhaps many more during rush hour due to the massive crowds impacted).  Perhaps a shuttle bus is needed every 30 seconds to 1 minute during rush hour to handle the extreme crowds.

[Around the Horn]

The distance from 53rd to the entrance between 58th and 59th is quite short and easily walked.  However, the distance from 69th to 59th/60th is double that distance, and includes an unpleasant and dangerous intersection when crossing 65th St and the highways.  Furthermore, headways on the B9 bus are roughly every 30-40 minutes starting mid-evening, and it doesn't run all night.  This is not an acceptable level of service as an alternative to the R train.  If you shut down the R train, you have to run shuttle buses at "at least" the same frequency as the R train (perhaps many more during rush hour due to the massive crowds impacted).  Perhaps a shuttle bus is needed every 30 seconds to 1 minute during rush hour to handle the extreme crowds.

If existing alternatives, including bus routes to other subway stations than 59 Street and 77 Street and walking to 77 Street, are advertised properly to the riding public, I do not see a need for such a frequent service.

 

It was particularly interesting to see the lack of use the shuttle buses had at Bay Ridge Avenue, the last time the was bustituted. Somehow they managed.

[Mtatransit]

If they are going to do shuttle bus, two- three stations should be closed at the same time, to maximize the work performed and efficiently use the buses

[checkmatechamp13]

The distance from 53rd to the entrance between 58th and 59th is quite short and easily walked.  However, the distance from 69th to 59th/60th is double that distance, and includes an unpleasant and dangerous intersection when crossing 65th St and the highways.  Furthermore, headways on the B9 bus are roughly every 30-40 minutes starting mid-evening, and it doesn't run all night.  This is not an acceptable level of service as an alternative to the R train.  If you shut down the R train, you have to run shuttle buses at "at least" the same frequency as the R train (perhaps many more during rush hour due to the massive crowds impacted).  Perhaps a shuttle bus is needed every 30 seconds to 1 minute during rush hour to handle the extreme crowds.

 

Every 30 seconds for one station that already has a bus connecting it to the next stop (that some of the people who are on it are taking to 59th anyway)? A full bus can carry about 80 people. A full train can carry about 2000. The train runs every 10 minutes. You're saying that 40-80% of a crushlloaded train is getting off at Bay Ridge Avenue? Which means that you're saying that Bay Ridge Avenue accounts for almost all of the ridership in Bay Ridge (or else how could they possibly fit into the & trains further down the line considering how crowded they already are with their own riders?) 

[Interested Rider]

R train blues raises several key issues in his justification for shuttle bus service that seems to be overlooked. While I will not  comment on number or scheduling of the shuttle buses, he is correct about 53rd Street not needing the service as it is 6 short blocks from the 59th Street Station and the distance is not that great. His point about the distance from 59th Street Station to Bay Ridge Avenue and the bad crossings  just to get there is also correct.One of the options being mentioned by other posters about using 77th Street.  Let me add that when I worked equidistant from both the Bay Ridge Avenue and 77th Street stations, I never walked to the 77th Street Station nor did I take the B/4 over the then B/34 at that time which was an option.

The key here is the B/9 and it is my opinion that it is already overloaded and the additional passengers from the closure of the Bay Ridge Avenue Station will turn this route from a disaster into a complete disaster. When the B/9 ran out of the Ulmer Park garage, it had two terminals on its eastern end: the Brighton Line (A/K/A Train /World) and Flatbush Avenue. The former terminal does not exist anymore and the latter is only used late at night instead of Kings Plaza. Since that time the B/9 has become a very heavily used route as there are more schools were built and the Avenue M shopping area has become one big traffic headache during most of the day. What seems to be forgotten here is that the route goes through Borough Park and Midwood and if the N Line construction is added to the mix, this has made this route into a line with frequent delays (See the MTA website). As I stated here, there are no more short turns on this route so in reality will the route be able to handle additional passengers on its west end given the present problems. The answer is that this will exacerbate the existing problems on the route which will make the service totally unreliable. This is why I am in agreement with the Community Board that there should be a shuttle bus as the walking distance is too long and the B/9 cannot handle the additional loads without having a negative impact on the Borough Park and Midwood communities which is being over looked in this discussion.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

R train blues raises several key issues in his justification for shuttle bus service that seems to be overlooked. While I will not  comment on number or scheduling of the shuttle buses, he is correct about 53rd Street not needing the service as it is 6 short blocks from the 59th Street Station and the distance is not that great. His point about the distance from 59th Street Station to Bay Ridge Avenue and the bad crossings  just to get there is also correct.One of the options being mentioned by other posters about using 77th Street.  Let me add that when I worked equidistant from both the Bay Ridge Avenue and 77th Street stations, I never walked to the 77th Street Station nor did I take the B/4 over the then B/34 at that time which was an option.

The key here is the B/9 and it is my opinion that it is already overloaded and the additional passengers from the closure of the Bay Ridge Avenue Station will turn this route from a disaster into a complete disaster. When the B/9 ran out of the Ulmer Park garage, it had two terminals on its eastern end: the Brighton Line (A/K/A Train /World) and Flatbush Avenue. The former terminal does not exist anymore and the latter is only used late at night instead of Kings Plaza. Since that time the B/9 has become a very heavily used route as there are more schools were built and the Avenue M shopping area has become one big traffic headache during most of the day. What seems to be forgotten here is that the route goes through Borough Park and Midwood and if the N Line construction is added to the mix, this has made this route into a line with frequent delays (See the MTA website). As I stated here, there are no more short turns on this route so in reality will the route be able to handle additional passengers on its west end given the present problems. The answer is that this will exacerbate the existing problems on the route which will make the service totally unreliable. This is why I am in agreement with the Community Board that there should be a shuttle bus as the walking distance is too long and the B/9 cannot handle the additional loads without having a negative impact on the Borough Park and Midwood communities which is being over looked in this discussion.

And all of the reasons that you mentioned are why CB10 likely wants shuttle service and why the other CB isn't asking for any.   As I said before, two different communities with two different needs.  

[CenSin]

Please.  Both buses are used more in the areas outside of Coney Island.

I’m hearing this in the screechy valley girl accent.

 

“puh-LEES! ”

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I’m hearing this in the screechy valley girl accent.

 

“puh-LEES! ”

lol