Plans move forward for LaGuardia AirTrain

[officiallyliam]

35 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

This plan only works until Phase III exists, and then it's back to the drawing board for new services.

I also have serious doubts that the switches east of Lex-63 could handle such a service given that no Broadway trains have ever served the 63 St tunnel, and certainly not in conjunction with the  .

33 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

I also wonder the same thing, If I'm not mistaken I think that @vanshnookenraggen acknowledged that in his proposal

The problem with the proposal is that it's predicated on the idea that the Queens Blvd line needs to have a train that runs to Broadway. If the goal is to truly provide the maximum possible capacity, then I have to disagree - it's totally possible to straighten out both Broadway and QBL (and, as a result, 8th and 6th) by taking Broadway off of QB. A proposal can't simultaneously preach the benefits of deinterlining while, at the same time, advocating an / merge at Lexington Avenue that would preclude decent headways on Second Avenue until Phase 3 opens. Why bother using up the vacant capacity on the Broadway line just to cement the vacant capacity on 2nd Avenue?

 

[bobtehpanda]

19 hours ago, officiallyliam said:

The problem with the proposal is that it's predicated on the idea that the Queens Blvd line needs to have a train that runs to Broadway. If the goal is to truly provide the maximum possible capacity, then I have to disagree - it's totally possible to straighten out both Broadway and QBL (and, as a result, 8th and 6th) by taking Broadway off of QB. A proposal can't simultaneously preach the benefits of deinterlining while, at the same time, advocating an / merge at Lexington Avenue that would preclude decent headways on Second Avenue until Phase 3 opens. Why bother using up the vacant capacity on the Broadway line just to cement the vacant capacity on 2nd Avenue?

 

Not only that, but there's not much of a point, either; the is directly across the platform at Lex-63. There's no material difference between just walking across the platform vs. routing a one-seat ride, because the stops served are exactly the same. In fact, the most obvious thing you lose from moving the  to Astoria isn't even fixed, and that is the direct transfer at Lex/59. The rest of the stops are all very short walks from 63 St line stations.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Why can't the MTA just extend the north to 19th Ave turn all the way to 81st Street and then go underground and use Runway Dr underground to connect to LaGuardia? It will only cross some Con Ed property at 19th Ave and Hertz property at LaGuardia merging into Runway Dr.

[BreeddekalbL]

6 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why can't the MTA just extend the north to 19th Ave turn all the way to 81st Street and then go underground and use Runway Dr underground to connect to LaGuardia? It will only cross some Con Ed property at 19th Ave and Hertz property at LaGuardia merging into Runway Dr.

thats my idea not this bart wye style stuff

[CenSin]

With the boom in development outside of Manhattan, one wonders whether this discussion about Manhattan-centric capacity will be moot. The might even see a return to the Queens Boulevard line with high frequency by the time 2 Avenue gets anywhere near phase 3. It seems to me that buildings and populations go up much faster than subway lines. The IND played a long game, and it will probably turn out that they had a good idea that was 150 years ahead of their time.

[RR503]

4 hours ago, CenSin said:

With the boom in development outside of Manhattan, one wonders whether this discussion about Manhattan-centric capacity will be moot. The might even see a return to the Queens Boulevard line with high frequency by the time 2 Avenue gets anywhere near phase 3. It seems to me that buildings and populations go up much faster than subway lines. The IND played a long game, and it will probably turn out that they had a good idea that was 150 years ahead of their time.

The boom in development is really a residential one. Yes, there has been office construction in LIC/Downtown Brooklyn, but with HY, WTC, 1 Vanderbilt etc flooding the market with Midtown space, much of that is being converted to residential. This is not to say that I don’t think there will be significant job growth in Brooklyn — there most certainly will be — but I reckon it’ll follow a less aggregated pattern, with startups in converted industrial space, storefront shops/offices, and medium density hubs in places like ENY and Industry City. Those will generate traffic, yes, but not anywhere near the flow density to require a Robin Hooding away from Manhattan.  

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:08 AM, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why can't the MTA just extend the north to 19th Ave turn all the way to 81st Street and then go underground and use Runway Dr underground to connect to LaGuardia? It will only cross some Con Ed property at 19th Ave and Hertz property at LaGuardia merging into Runway Dr.

 

They tried to float that idea in the mid 1990s. The NIMBYs shot it down.

 

 The Governor wants an AirTrain to Willets Point. Therefore, there will be an AirTrain to Willets Point and nothing will stand in its way (not even Casey Stengel Depot).

[Gotham Bus Co.]

5 hours ago, CenSin said:

With the boom in development outside of Manhattan, one wonders whether this discussion about Manhattan-centric capacity will be moot. The might even see a return to the Queens Boulevard line with high frequency by the time 2 Avenue gets anywhere near phase 3. It seems to me that buildings and populations go up much faster than subway lines. The IND played a long game, and it will probably turn out that they had a good idea that was 150 years ahead of their time.

 

The discussion is Manhattan-centric because, like Robert Moses, Cuomo thinks that cities in general exist only as conduits for traveling to and from other places. 

[TheTerrificTTrain]

The LGA AirTrain is just a big waste of money. Of course, we all know that, but I'd like to propose some solutions. My solution would be to extend the AirTrain via the Grand Central Parkway West and Brooklyn Queens Expressway West to Roosevelt Avenue and at Roosevelt Avenue, the track would split up, and one branch would head east via Roosevelt Avenue to 74th Street - Broadway and the other branch would head west, also via Roosevelt Avenue, to Woodside. At Woodside, passengers could take the LIRR to Penn Station, providing fast and easy access to Midtown Manhattan, or Jamaica to transfer to a train heading to Long Island or Atlantic Terminal, as opposed to taking a Port Washington train from Mets - Willets Point and making endless transfers. Plus, from Woodside, Grand Central is only 9 stops away on the line (and 5 stops away on the  line), while from Mets - Willets Point, Grand Central is 17 stops away on the line (and 7 stops away on the line). At 74th Street - Broadway, aka Jackson Heights - Roosevelt Avenue, you could transfer to the     and  trains, providing easy and affordable access to Midtown Manhattan, Lower Manhattan, Coney Island, Brooklyn, Eastern Queens, and everywhere else in the city thanks to transfers. Although it may be a little costly to build a new hub in the middle of Roosevelt Avenue (which is very crowded), it would eventually pay itself off with a projected annual ridership of 7,300,000, which would result in $36,500,000 in revenue per year. It would pay itself off in less than 15 years!      

[+Young+]

6 minutes ago, TheTerrificTTrain said:

Although it may be a little costly to build a new hub in the middle of Roosevelt Avenue (which is very crowded), it would eventually pay itself off with a projected annual ridership of 7,300,000, which would result in $36,500,000 in revenue per year. It would pay itself off in less than 15 years!      

Don't get me wrong - you have a good idea, however who's going to initially pay for it?

In addition, if Gov. Cuomo finds a way to pay for this, then isn't Mayor DeBlasio going to squak more about his speed cameras being unplugged around the 5 boroughs?

I know, it's all about the politics....

[TheTerrificTTrain]

oh Mayor DeBlasio...

 

You have a point, but maybe it could get some federal funding.

[W4ST]

20 minutes ago, TheTerrificTTrain said:

oh Mayor DeBlasio...

 

You have a point, but maybe it could get some federal funding.

For the 74th Street Jackson Heights station money could possibly be saved by sending the Airtrain into the open cut currently used for freight trains and fitting 3 or 4 tracks into it — 2 for the Airtrain and 1 or 2 for freight. A 500 foot tunnel could connect this to 74th Street.

I really like your idea. I think it would be the best solution. My only question is: how would the Airtrain get to Woodside? Would it run next to the 7 or underground? Thanks

[TheTerrificTTrain]

jeez my first ever post was 42 minutes ago and two people have already given me positive feedback

[LGA Link N Train]

5 minutes ago, W4ST said:

For the 74th Street Jackson Heights station money could possibly be saved by sending the Airtrain into the open cut currently used for freight trains and fitting 3 or 4 tracks into it — 2 for the Airtrain and 1 or 2 for freight. A 500 foot tunnel could connect this to 74th Street.

I really like your idea. I think it would be the best solution. My only question is: how would the Airtrain get to Woodside? Would it run next to the 7 or underground? Thanks

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TZh5VrO4gtE7EGb-B9-2y-flRyh44b34&usp=sharing

[TheTerrificTTrain]

1 minute ago, W4ST said:

For the 74th Street Jackson Heights station money could possibly be saved by sending the Airtrain into the open cut currently used for freight trains and fitting 3 or 4 tracks into it — 2 for the Airtrain and 1 or 2 for freight. A 500 foot tunnel could connect this to 74th Street.

I really like your idea. I think it would be the best solution. My only question is: how would the Airtrain get to Woodside? Would it run next to the 7 or underground? Thanks

2

It's a good idea to have the Airtrain use the open cut. It would make construction faster and would, as you said, save money. As for Woodside, the train would turn right from the BQE onto Roosevelt and run above the 7 line to Woodside. At Woodside, the AirTrain would run on the same level as the to make transferring to it easier.

[TheTerrificTTrain]

@LGA Link N train Wouldn't it be more affordable to have the AirTrain stop not right below but near below Roosevelt Avenue and from there have people walk through an overpass to 74th Street?

[R68OnBroadway]

What if we incorporated Triboro RX into a link to LGA? This would give it a defined path north of Jackson Heights, allow for improved connectivity to all the boroughs (minus the Bronx, which could be served by a later extension) and LGA, give more political traction for RX, and even maybe divert more traffic from JFK or even LGA with a better connection between the two airports and for the areas on the line it covers.

[LGA Link N Train]

2 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

What if we incorporated Triboro RX into a link to LGA? This would give it a defined path north of Jackson Heights, allow for improved connectivity to all the boroughs (minus the Bronx, which could be served by a later extension) and LGA, give more political traction for RX, and even maybe divert more traffic from JFK or even LGA with a better connection between the two airports and for the areas on the line it covers.

Did you NOT  look at my map?

[R68OnBroadway]

Just now, LGA Link N train said:

Did you NOT  look at my map?

I did. I just thought that if RX and a LGA link were combined, it would kill two birds with one stone, help increase leverage for a needed project, would remove a new system that would be incompatible with other forms of transit, and would save money. 

[TheTerrificTTrain]

4 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

What if we incorporated Triboro RX into a link to LGA? This would give it a defined path north of Jackson Heights, allow for improved connectivity to all the boroughs (minus the Bronx, which could be served by a later extension) and LGA, give more political traction for RX, and even maybe divert more traffic from JFK or even LGA with a better connection between the two airports and for the areas on the line it covers.

The Triboro RX doesn't look like it will be happening anytime soon, and if construction began today it would take years to complete anyway. What we need is a plan to extend an existing line (like the proposal to extend the Astoria Line to LGA), or another route for the LGA AirTrain that's less useless than the current plan for it to end at Mets - Willets Point (though pretty much every other route would be better than that shitty route, other than rerouting it into the Long Island Sound and having it end there, but that doesn't beat the uselessness by much)

[LGA Link N Train]

7 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I did. I just thought that if RX and a LGA link were combined, it would kill two birds with one stone, help increase leverage for a needed project, would remove a new system that would be incompatible with other forms of transit, and would save money. 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TZh5VrO4gtE7EGb-B9-2y-flRyh44b34&usp=sharing I updated it 

[TheTerrificTTrain]

1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TZh5VrO4gtE7EGb-B9-2y-flRyh44b34&usp=sharing I updated it 

How did you do all of that in 11 minutes?

[LGA Link N Train]

1 minute ago, TheTerrificTTrain said:

How did you do all of that in 11 minutes?

Maybe I have a few tricks up my sleeve, and I rushed the bronx section a little bit

[R68OnBroadway]

27 minutes ago, TheTerrificTTrain said:

The Triboro RX doesn't look like it will be happening anytime soon, and if construction began today it would take years to complete anyway. What we need is a plan to extend an existing line (like the proposal to extend the Astoria Line to LGA), or another route for the LGA AirTrain that's less useless than the current plan for it to end at Mets - Willets Point (though pretty much every other route would be better than that shitty route, other than rerouting it into the Long Island Sound and having it end there, but that doesn't beat the uselessness by much)

Triboro RX could be completed in 7-10 years since the tracks are already laid... if we used modified DMUs, DEMUs or EMUs from the U.K we could get it done quickly given that we would only need to build stations and electrify the line.

[TheTerrificTTrain]

I don't know, the Triboro RX to me just sounds like a waste of money, if you wanted to get to the Bronx from Brooklyn you could always take the D, 2, 4, 5, or 6. The LGA AirTrain is different.