Expanding the Crosstown Line aka The (G)

[NY1635]

Send it over to 179th Street in Jamaica for people who want to get to Brooklyn without touching Manhattan. Tired of Manhattan bound people cramming themselves on the  at Jackson Heights because they can't wait for the . 

[B35 via Church]

18 hours ago, NY1635 said:

Send it over to 179th Street in Jamaica for people who want to get to Brooklyn without touching Manhattan. Tired of Manhattan bound people cramming themselves on the  at Jackson Heights because they can't wait for the . 

I'm tired of Nassau county residents bitching about the LIRR's transporting of intra-city riders, but yet have the gall to part their lips to complain about some facet of the subway....

Sure, let's forget about the having been cut back from 71st to Court Square.... Instead, let's run it all the way out to 179th to somehow placate you Nassau county riders that feel some type of way about Queens patrons utilizing a New York City subway line that serves New York City residents in a New York City county.... Some Crime.

I'd like to know how you come to the determination that those that board F's at Jackson Hgts. are people that are just merely impatient riders (as if those folks couldn't possibly, actually want 6th av service)... If anything, I see more people standing on the platform letting whatever arriving F train pass, to wait for the E.....

Look, I know some of you Nassau folks would just love for the to go 179th - 169th - then nonstop to Manhattan, but injecting a little something into your veins called reality would cure the myopia you people suffer from.....

Edited December 10, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Maxwell179]

4 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm tired of Nassau county residents bitching about the LIRR's transporting of intra-city riders, but yet have the gall to part their lips to complain about some facet of the subway....

Sure, let's forget about the having been cut back from 71st to Court Square.... Instead, let's run it all the way out to 179th to somehow placate you Nassau county riders that feel some type of way about Queens patrons utilizing a New York City subway line that serves New York City residents in a New York City county.... Some Crime.

I'd like to know how you come to the determination that those that board F's at Jackson Hgts. are people that are just merely impatient riders (as if those folks couldn't possibly, actually want 6th av service)... If anything, I see more people standing on the platform letting whatever arriving F train pass, to wait for the E.....

Look, I know some of you Nassau folks would just love for the to go 179th - 169th - then nonstop to Manhattan, but injecting a little something into your veins called reality would cure the myopia you people suffer from.....

I’m crying , ya really be going off 😂

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/7/2019 at 11:30 AM, RR503 said:

So we should link one line through residential neighborhoods (Brighton) with another (Myrtle). Got it. What is a ridership draw, anyway, right?

The main purpose of this line is to give Brighton riders if not more an option to get to northern Brooklyn and parts of Queens without having to go through Manhattan.   The transfer allows those from Brighton as well as Myrtle looking for Queens Boulevard or Flushing to be able to do so again while not going through Manhattan while also providing the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle line with far more service between there, Metropolitan and Coney Island (with full-length, two-track stations replacing the current single track and short stations) and more easily allow more riders on the Myrtle Avenue portion of the current for example to reach the train at Franklin Avenue and not either have to backtrack to Manhattan or take the to Broadway Junction for the or for instance.   Plus, it would allow the and  to access the Broadway-Brooklyn line in an emergency or because of a GO (there would be connections to that from an extended Franklin Avenue portion that continues onto a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle EL with all such stations between Myrtle and Essex extended to 600' as Phase 1 of a long-term plan to lengthen all such stations) and be able to continue via 6th Avenue after that with provisions to if in the future such a line is warranted made permanent.   

[Deucey]

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The main purpose of this line is to give Brighton riders if not more an option to get to northern Brooklyn and parts of Queens without having to go through Manhattan.

Why could they just build a tunnel between the three Atlantic platforms and Lafayette and Fulton Streets on the  and , respectively?

Or to Hoyt-Schermerhorn?

A lot less engineering and cheaper cost doing that. They already did similar to connect all the lines at Fulton Street, so it’s not unprecedented.

[Deucey]

8 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Plus, it would allow the and  to access the Broadway-Brooklyn line in an emergency or because of a GO (there would be connections to that from an extended Franklin Avenue portion that continues onto a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle EL with all such stations between Myrtle and Essex extended to 600' as Phase 1 of a long-term plan to lengthen all such stations) and be able to continue via 6th Avenue after that with provisions to if in the future such a line is warranted made permanent.

But even still, why not just connect it to the Jamaica Line towards the Willy B and use Christie St for 6th Av reroutes or loop it back to Atlantic using Nassau/Montague?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

11 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The main purpose of this line is to give Brighton riders if not more an option to get to northern Brooklyn and parts of Queens without having to go through Manhattan.   The transfer allows those from Brighton as well as Myrtle looking for Queens Boulevard or Flushing to be able to do so again while not going through Manhattan while also providing the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle line with far more service between there, Metropolitan and Coney Island (with full-length, two-track stations replacing the current single track and short stations) and more easily allow more riders on the Myrtle Avenue portion of the current for example to reach the train at Franklin Avenue and not either have to backtrack to Manhattan or take the to Broadway Junction for the or for instance.   Plus, it would allow the and  to access the Broadway-Brooklyn line in an emergency or because of a GO (there would be connections to that from an extended Franklin Avenue portion that continues onto a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle EL with all such stations between Myrtle and Essex extended to 600' as Phase 1 of a long-term plan to lengthen all such stations) and be able to continue via 6th Avenue after that with provisions to if in the future such a line is warranted made permanent.   

This does nothing to expand the , which is the subject of this topic. A Franklin  connection to the  is a far more effective and useful Brooklyn-Queens service, because it would serve Long Island City, which is a major residential, work and leisure destination, unlike Middle Village, which is mostly just residential. Not to mention that you would be reverse-branching both the Brighton Local tracks and the Myrtle Ave Line, thus kneecapping both  and  service, both of which would be limited by having to share with this “Black V” service. And you’d be creating a major bottleneck at Prospect Park where the  switches tracks thanks by having a third Brighton service operate through Prospect on the local, unlike the current  which simply terminates on one of the local tracks. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue

[R68OnBroadway]

What is the exact proposal that most people are going for here? What part of the line are underground, where will the stations be, and where will the line terminate?

[Wallyhorse]

On 12/11/2019 at 10:59 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

This does nothing to expand the , which is the subject of this topic. A Franklin  connection to the  is a far more effective and useful Brooklyn-Queens service, because it would serve Long Island City, which is a major residential, work and leisure destination, unlike Middle Village, which is mostly just residential. Not to mention that you would be reverse-branching both the Brighton Local tracks and the Myrtle Ave Line, thus kneecapping both  and  service, both of which would be limited by having to share with this “Black V” service. And you’d be creating a major bottleneck at Prospect Park where the  switches tracks thanks by having a third Brighton service operate through Prospect on the local, unlike the current  which simply terminates on one of the local tracks. 

I already noted and and would be flipped: becomes the second Brighton Local, becomes the Brighton Express 24/7.  

[RR503]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:54 AM, Wallyhorse said:

The main purpose of this line is to give Brighton riders if not more an option to get to northern Brooklyn and parts of Queens without having to go through Manhattan.   The transfer allows those from Brighton as well as Myrtle looking for Queens Boulevard or Flushing to be able to do so again while not going through Manhattan while also providing the current Franklin Avenue Shuttle line with far more service between there, Metropolitan and Coney Island (with full-length, two-track stations replacing the current single track and short stations) and more easily allow more riders on the Myrtle Avenue portion of the current for example to reach the train at Franklin Avenue and not either have to backtrack to Manhattan or take the to Broadway Junction for the or for instance.   Plus, it would allow the and  to access the Broadway-Brooklyn line in an emergency or because of a GO (there would be connections to that from an extended Franklin Avenue portion that continues onto a rebuilt portion of the old Myrtle EL with all such stations between Myrtle and Essex extended to 600' as Phase 1 of a long-term plan to lengthen all such stations) and be able to continue via 6th Avenue after that with provisions to if in the future such a line is warranted made permanent.   

A few quick points

- Spending money to build a complex and visually disruptive connection between the Brighton and Broadway-Brooklyn lines is an objectively poor allocation of funds. If you want to build out a funky grade separated interlocking along the latter line, fix Myrtle! Brighton riders would be just fine if we made the shuttle 600' compliant and thus provided  riders with a route into Manhattan when the Flatbush tunnel goes down. 

- Moreover, connecting Brighton to Myrtle creates a route which boomerangs around really all of the primary activity centers. You're on Brighton, heading north, towards downtown Brooklyn...just kidding, you're going up the shuttle ROW towards Williamsburg and LIC...but just kidding about that too, we'll cut east south of Williamsburg to serve the vaunted Sheepshead Bay-Ridgewood market. If you want to extend something up the  ROW, make a  connection to get Brighton riders (and, by extension, IRT and Fulton riders) easier access to LIC for comparatively little $$$. Otherwise...nah. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

16 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I already noted and and would be flipped: becomes the second Brighton Local, becomes the Brighton Express 24/7.  

And? 

What does it matter if you flip the  and ? You’ll still be kneecapping both services because they both still have to merge at Prospect. Only in this case, you’d be turning Prospect into another 34th St  style merge. Adding in this extended  (or “black V” as you call it) is just more reverse-branching that we don’t need. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by T to Dyre Avenue

[CenSin]

45 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

And? 

What does it matter if you flip the  and ? You’ll still be kneecapping both services because they both still have to merge at Prospect. Only in this case, you’d be turning Prospect into another 34th St  style merge. Adding in this extended  (or “black V” as you call it) is just more reverse-branching that we don’t need. 

It’s like a political answer—one that addresses not the issue, but stands in for a real solution in the hopes that nobody will see that nothing was solved. The predetermined plan continues, and any problems with it are swept under the rug.

Anyone still keeping an eye on the Laguardia Airport link from Mets–Willets Point? That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about.

Edited December 14, 2019 by CenSin

[SubwayFan3000]

I Prefer to see Line extending from Church Av to Oakland Gardans-Bell Blvd, From Church Av to Fort Hamilton - 92nd St via Super-Express LIRR.

Edited December 14, 2019 by subwayfan1998

[bobtehpanda]

On 12/14/2019 at 7:25 AM, subwayfan1998 said:

I Prefer to see Line extending from Church Av to Oakland Gardans-Bell Blvd, From Church Av to Fort Hamilton - 92nd St via Super-Express LIRR.

...this is certainly a way to arrange those words into a sentence.

It's not grammatically correct and the idea makes no goddamn sense, but it's an idea.

[andreww]

lance is completely afk and doesn't moderate this forum anymore lol