Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Travis Mcnonald]

54 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

East of Prospect Heights/Clinton Hill, you'd be hard pressed to see a current B25 rider use any of those aforementioned routes interchangeably....

As for the B45, yeah, it stopped being a 24/7 route after the 2010 cuts.... I'd say there's a greater demand for (more) overnight B25 service, than even having had overnight B45 service to begin with....

Yeah, all roads seem to lead back to those dreaded cuts.

[B35 via Church]

7 minutes ago, Travis Mcnonald said:

Yeah, all roads seem to lead back to those dreaded cuts.

The difference between those cuts back then & the ones proposed for the impending redesign is that the the former was very aggressive & the latter is more passive..... Notice that the MTA's focus regarding these redesigns have not been on the frequencies for these routes.... "20 minutes or better", gtfoh.... Lol... I mean, not that it would excuse it, but it would be one thing if the merit of the vast majority of the altered/impeding routings of the routes were on point... Even that's simply not the case, AFAIC anyway.... YMMV...

[BrooklynBus]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:58 AM, MysteriousBtrain said:

I'm glad Brooklyn is pressuring the MTA the same/similar to the Queens redesign. Hoping Queens will do something similar to this so we can get a somewhat accelerated timeline.

Only 12 people showed up and I knew nine of them. The weather was awful, but if passengers don’t like what is being proposed, we have to do better by letting all our elected officials know. We can’t rely on the MTA to do the right thing by themselves.

[SubBus]

According to mta.info,  the Brooklyn Bus Redesign was updated on October 5th,  but didn't notice any changes....

[BrooklynBus]

4 hours ago, SubBus said:

According to mta.info,  the Brooklyn Bus Redesign was updated on October 5th,  but didn't notice any changes....

Not only aren’t there any changes, they still refer to early 2023 in the future tense. If they are so sloppy, how can we trust any of their planning? 

[Ex696]

Is removing  service on Bedford Avenue justified? It does lead to more service along Nostrand Avenue, but does it necessitate the removal of service along Bedford Avenue, though?

[BrooklynBus]

4 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Is removing  service on Bedford Avenue justified? It does lead to more service along Nostrand Avenue, but does it necessitate the removal of service along Bedford Avenue, though?

No it’s not justified. What it’s doing is making the B49 more difficult to access for existing riders, and making it easier to access for riders not currently using the route, so it’s a wash, not an improvement. It also makes transfering to the B35 westbound more indirect than it currently is. The transfer for the rerouted B16 is also indirect with riders having to double back. 
 

The goal should be to make trips more direct, not more indirect. My proposal for the B49 to go straight along Ocean Avenue is far superior, with more direct travel for all. 

[checkmatechamp13]

On 9/30/2023 at 9:57 AM, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, the B25 was slated for extinction back in 2010.

2009...along with the Bx4, Q56, M10, and the full B75...2010 they modified some of the proposed 2009 cuts and went after some other lines instead

On 9/30/2023 at 10:18 AM, Travis Mcnonald said:

It could have worked in another world as the B26, B65, and B45 are all not that far away either. I did notice that the B25 had a rather large reduction in late night service in recent years. Also, didn't the B45 used to run 24 hours? 

2010 it was removed

[Ex696]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

My proposal for the B49 to go straight along Ocean Avenue is far superior, with more direct travel for all. 

So it terminates at Prospect Park?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

So it terminates at Prospect Park?

No it would turn east on Empire Blvd and terminate at Utica Ave and the B43 woukd continue south to Kings County Hospital along with other changes. 

[Ex696]

2 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

No it would turn east on Empire Blvd and terminate at Utica Ave and the B43 woukd continue south to Kings County Hospital along with other changes. 

Then what happens to bus service along Bedford Avenue?

[BrooklynBus]

12 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Then what happens to bus service along Bedford Avenue?

There would be no service on Bedford. Don’t forget prior to the mid 1960s, the B49 operated both ways on Rogers. It was moved to Bedford only because Aerojet’s was made a one way. The same is true for NY Avenue. It received bus service when Nostrand was made one way. 
 

if you want to go back a hundred years Rogers and Nostrand both had trolley lines only one block apart because two private companies competed for the same clientele. 

[Ex696]

Then does Ocean Avenue north of Foster Avenue have enough demand south of Foster Avenue to make this a better option compared to the proposal of sending it up New York Avenue and down Nostrand instead?

 

[BrooklynBus]

40 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

Then does Ocean Avenue north of Foster Avenue have enough demand south of Foster Avenue to make this a better option compared to the proposal of sending it up New York Avenue and down Nostrand instead?

 

Except for one block, the entire Ocean Ave north of Foster consists only of six story apartment buildings. All the other avenues are primarily two, three and four story buildings. Also the B41 which it parallels one block away diverges to serve other areas. I think it is a prime market that could be better served. You could argue that it it also served by the Brighton Line, but that would be for longer trips. 

[Ex696]

33 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I think it is a prime market that could be better served. You could argue that it it also served by the Brighton Line, but that would be for longer trips. 

I see...but what would happen to local service on New York or Rogers Avenues since the B49 wouldn't be there like in the draft plan?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

I see...but what would happen to local service on New York or Rogers Avenues since the B49 wouldn't be there like in the draft plan?

I would have the B44 on Nostrand Rogers like the MTA plan and I would have a new route on New York (two way) south of Kings County Hospital which would switch over to Albany Avenue south of Holy Cross Cemetery. 

[Ex696]

23 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would have the B44 on Nostrand Rogers like the MTA plan and I would have a new route on New York (two way) south of Kings County Hospital which would switch over to Albany Avenue south of Holy Cross Cemetery. 

Alright, that makes sense although I don't know where the southern terminus would be.

 

What about the  truncation south of Downtown Brooklyn and extension to Jackson Heights ?  It's current terminus at Flushing and Grand Avenues is kind of a stub, and while I don't think it's bad for a bus route to have a stub terminus, I think there's at least something that can be done with it. Downtown Brooklyn is growing as a central business district, and  has terrible headways, making it an unreliable option for Maspeth commuters or commuters around the route that may need to go there. Something should be done with it to make it more satisfactory.

 

 

 

[BrooklynBus]

36 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

Alright, that makes sense although I don't know where the southern terminus would be.

 

What about the  truncation south of Downtown Brooklyn and extension to Jackson Heights ?  It's current terminus at Flushing and Grand Avenues is kind of a stub, and while I don't think it's bad for a bus route to have a stub terminus, I think there's at least something that can be done with it. Downtown Brooklyn is growing as a central business district, and  has terrible headways, making it an unreliable option for Maspeth commuters or commuters around the route that may need to go there. Something should be done with it to make it more satisfactory.

 

 

 

It would take Albany to Avenue H to Kings Plaza. 
 

I don’t agree with truncating the B57 to its old terminus. Combining it with the B75 was a good idea and it should stay. As far as extending it further into Queens, I haven’t really looked at the demand. But that’s the MTA’s job. If they believe Jackson Heights is a better terminus, they need to provide us with data supporting it. So far all their proposals have been based on Trust us because we are the experts and know more than you do. Judging from all their past mistakes, I find that very difficult to do. 

[Ex696]

32 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don’t agree with truncating the B57 to its old terminus. Combining it with the B75 was a good idea and it should stay

Why are they splitting Court and Smith Streets from the B57 after having combined them in 2010? Is there low through ridership through Downtown Brooklyn?

 

[BrooklynBus]

28 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

Why are they splitting Court and Smith Streets from the B57 after having combined them in 2010? Is there low through ridership through Downtown Brooklyn?

 

They want to extend it to Jackson Heights and didn’t want a longer route. Not good enough of a reason. They also decimated service on the route. Next they will try to eliminate Smith St service altogether claiming you can just use the F train. 

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Why are they splitting Court and Smith Streets from the B57 after having combined them in 2010? Is there low through ridership through Downtown Brooklyn?

Taking the proposed B27 into consideration, I'm going to deduce that someone of note realizes the B57 carries more (than the B62) between the Farragut projects & Downtown Brooklyn, and the realization of the B61 carrying more between Downtown Brooklyn & Red Hook (than the B57).... In other words, that part of the current B57 you're inquiring about (that the proposed B27 entails) is being split up for mere coverage purposes.... The fact that they resorted to appending the Downtown Brooklyn - Farragut projects usage of the current B57 to the current usage of the B57 b/w Downtown Brooklyn & Red Hook, to come up with this proposed B27, says enough....

[Q43LTD]

6 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Why are they splitting Court and Smith Streets from the B57 after having combined them in 2010? Is there low through ridership through Downtown Brooklyn?

 

Apparently, not low enough to propose a B27

[Ex696]

Is a route all the way from Red Hook to Jackson Heights a bad idea? Might be too long.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Is a route all the way from Red Hook to Jackson Heights a bad idea? Might be too long.

A combination of the proposed B27 & the proposed B57 would be longer than the old B61 that ran between Red Hook & Queens Plaza (and look what happened with that rendition of the B61 after rider complaints).... So, yeah - too long... Hell, one could argue the proposed B57 itself would end up looming unmanageable.....

[Ex696]

21 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

So, yeah - too long... Hell, one could argue the proposed B57 itself would end up looming unmanageable.....

So the current B57 is the best form of it, and only a frequency increase is needed?