Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[BrooklynBus]

4 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

What Brooklyn Bus wrote as to "he" is not true. I decided not to get involved because the change in routing was directly connected to the accident where a person was killed by a bus turning at East 17th Street. and Avenue Z which led to the change. By going straight on Avenue Z from East 17th Street to East 15th Street, the B/36 would avoid the many turns which is in line with the proposed change for the B/49 from Sheepshead Bay Road. This change was also in line with former mayor Bill DeBlasio's Vision Zero which I believe played a role in the re-routing of the B/36

The reason that I proposed using Neptune, Coney Island and Avenue Z, it provides an alternative to the narrow streets that the B/49 operates on in Sheepshead Bay which you are proposing as an alternative to the routing that I have proposed. I sincerely doubt that Operations Planning would be interested in substituting one set of narrow streets for another.   In reading through the design, Operations Planning makes it quite clear that if there is an alternative that can be used, they will change the route. (see B/16 ((for example) rerouting from 56th and 57th Streets to 60th Street ire-routing n Borough Park and the routing in Kensington).

You are confusing the B36 with the B49. It is true what I wrote. Currently northbound B49 riders can get off at the Voorhies Avenue end of the station without walking. Under your proposal everyone would have to walk from E15 St and Avenue Z as with the B36. 
 

The B36 change also required an extra block walk when before, passengers could board directly in front of the station. The bus stop was replaced with a taxi stand, a great way to encourage bus travel. As for the change itself, the former route required three extra turns. I took a video during the evening rush hour that showed the buses were able to make the turns with virtually no traffic. DOT’s claim that it took much longer because of traffic was a flat out lie. And yes, the route was changed because one person in 40 years was killed by a car crossing the street at E 17 and Avenue Z. We don’t even know the reason for the accident, and a bus wasn’t even involved.  A great reason to inconvenience about 3,000 bus riders a day (the sixth highest bus subway transfer point in the borough) by changing the route that I designed. 

As for Sheepshead Bay Road being too narrow, why did DOT add parking rather than enforce the No Standing regulations in effect when the bus operated two ways on Sheepshead Bay Road? They caused the current congestion.
 

As for the B16 using 56 and 57 Street, the current route is much faster than it would be using 60 Street which is plagued with traffic which is why it was opposed by the Borough Park community when this idea was first proposed to them in July 2004. Of course the route should be going straight on Ft Hamilton Pkway anyway. 

[BrooklynBus]

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/op-ed-bus-network-redesign-goals/

[Ex696]

Is it possible that the B15 was extended to Montrose Avenue  because the Woodhull Hospital terminus would likely be unable to handle having the B15, B46, and B47 all ending there?

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Is it possible that the B15 was extended to Montrose Avenue  because the Woodhull Hospital terminus would likely be unable to handle having the B15, B46, and B47 all ending there?

It’s probably to make a train connection. 

[BrooklynBus]

https://www.rockawaytimes.com/new-bus-needed/

[Brillant93]

27 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

https://www.rockawaytimes.com/new-bus-needed/

The Q35 going to sheepsheads bay and not Flatbush junction where there is a straight connection to a subway doesn't make any sense at all. How many people from Far Rockaway are going to that area? Who will it benefit? Most of the people who travel from that area aren't going there so there isn't a need for the Q35 to even be rerouted because you are already taking away a direct connection to Manhattan via the subway.    

[BrooklynBus]

37 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

The Q35 going to sheepsheads bay and not Flatbush junction where there is a straight connection to a subway doesn't make any sense at all. How many people from Far Rockaway are going to that area? Who will it benefit? Most of the people who travel from that area aren't going there so there isn't a need for the Q35 to even be rerouted because you are already taking away a direct connection to Manhattan via the subway.    

I was proposing a new route using the Belt Parkway, not rerouting the Q35. 

[Ex696]

For the , wouldn't it be better to just have the Avenue U-Flushing Avenue trips be extended to Ocean Parkway-Avenue Z whereas the Washington Plaza trips continue to run the current full route all the way down to Knapp Street?

[Lex]

3 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

For the , wouldn't it be better to just have the Avenue U-Flushing Avenue trips be extended to Ocean Parkway-Avenue Z whereas the Washington Plaza trips continue to run the current full route all the way down to Knapp Street?

No. Those short-turns cover the core part of the route and have plenty of traffic to deal with as it is.

[Ex696]

28 minutes ago, Lex said:

No. Those short-turns cover the core part of the route and have plenty of traffic to deal with as it is.

But based on the Remix map, it looks like the short-turns have been discontinued. Unless we have to wait for the GTFS trip data to come out like for the Queens Redesign.

[BrooklynBus]

6 hours ago, Ex696 said:

For the , wouldn't it be better to just have the Avenue U-Flushing Avenue trips be extended to Ocean Parkway-Avenue Z whereas the Washington Plaza trips continue to run the current full route all the way down to Knapp Street?

The B44 should not go to Ocean Parkway and Z . Period. If the B36 needs more service, just improve service. 

[Lex]

11 hours ago, Ex696 said:

But based on the Remix map, it looks like the short-turns have been discontinued. Unless we have to wait for the GTFS trip data to come out like for the Queens Redesign.

Unless short-turns are explicitly involved in the proposals, you shouldn't expect anything about them on those things.

[Ex696]

4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

The B44 should not go to Ocean Parkway and Z . Period. If the B36 needs more service, just improve service. 

If that was a better solution, why didn't they just increase B36 service instead of rerouting the B44-SBS away from Knapp Street?

[BrooklynBus]

27 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

If that was a better solution, why didn't they just increase B36 service instead of rerouting the B44-SBS away from Knapp Street?

Because it’s cheaper which is the only thing they are concerned with. How to minimize operating costs regardless of the consequences. Traffic on Av Z especially with articulated buses and four routes would be overwhelming. When I asked them about it, they said, they would just eliminate parking (without looking at that impact). That’s only one problem with their proposal. Another is reduced B44SBS reliability which they conveniently ignore. I could go on. 

[BelieveinMe]

Question for the board.

Can someone please explain the B53.

Is it supposed to go into service at the same time the Queens reroute,or the Brooklyn reroutes?

[Q43LTD]

It's supposed to go into effect with the Queens routes. Even though some feel it shouldn't be a thing.

[BrooklynBus]

4 hours ago, BelieveinMe said:

Question for the board.

Can someone please explain the B53.

Is it supposed to go into service at the same time the Queens reroute,or the Brooklyn reroutes?

I don’t think it would go into service until the Brooklyn study is approved.

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

It's supposed to go into effect with the Queens routes....

How are you coming to that conclusion?

[checkmatechamp13]

As far as I'm aware, they're still trying to figure out the implementation plan regarding routes on the border (whether they should be done with the Brooklyn routes vs. Queens routes, or be sort of a mid-phase in between the two). 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

21 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

As far as I'm aware, they're still trying to figure out the implementation plan regarding routes on the border (whether they should be done with the Brooklyn routes vs. Queens routes, or be sort of a mid-phase in between the two). 

Given that the only route change that really needs to be implemented in tandem with the Queens routes (if it ends up being on the final plan) is the B62, I think it would make sense to not overwhelm themselves by changing all those Brooklyn routes at the same time. The Queens routes changes in conjunction with the proposed Brooklyn interborough routes could wait as it wouldn't make much of an impact with the rest of the network if they were left as is for the time being. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

The only changes regarding Brooklyn routes is the service in Queens and changes that involves Queens routes, even if they touch Brooklyn. This includes:

Splitting the B24 to the B53/Q68 

Q24 from Bushwick to Broadway Junction being replaced by the B53

B32 discontinued and replaced by the B53/B62

B57 extension to Jackson Heights 

B62 extension to Astoria 

Unless the MTA makes an announcement or the final plan is updated, these changes will be in conjunction with the Queens redesign.

Separate note, people forget how the M100 was changed despite not being a Bronx route. It'll be the same concept for the above routes.

[BrooklynBus]

5 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

The only changes regarding Brooklyn routes is the service in Queens and changes that involves Queens routes, even if they touch Brooklyn. This includes:

Splitting the B24 to the B53/Q68 

Q24 from Bushwick to Broadway Junction being replaced by the B53

B32 discontinued and replaced by the B53/B62

B57 extension to Jackson Heights 

B62 extension to Astoria 

Unless the MTA makes an announcement or the final plan is updated, these changes will be in conjunction with the Queens redesign.

Separate note, people forget how the M100 was changed despite not being a Bronx route. It'll be the same concept for the above routes.

If Brooklyn opposes the B53 (unless the Q24 and B46 are untouched in the meantime) it cannot be implemented with the Queens changes because Brooklyn would not have adequate opportunity to speak and there would not have been a public hearing and I doubt they would want to run all three routes on Broadway. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

15 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

If Brooklyn opposes the B53 (unless the Q24 and B46 are untouched in the meantime) it cannot be implemented with the Queens changes because Brooklyn would not have adequate opportunity to speak and there would not have been a public hearing and I doubt they would want to run all three routes on Broadway. 

They can take studies from the Brooklyn redesign and implement it by the time the Queens redesign is ready. Technically, the Brooklyn final plan needs to be ready before any implementations, but that doesn't mean they won't be implemented after the Queens redesign. 

Hearings still need to be held regardless of the borough, so there's plenty of time to announce changes if there needs to be any. 

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

They can take studies from the Brooklyn redesign and implement it by the time the Queens redesign is ready. Technically, the Brooklyn final plan needs to be ready before any implementations, but that doesn't mean they won't be implemented after the Queens redesign. 

Hearings still need to be held regardless of the borough, so there's plenty of time to announce changes if there needs to be any. 

They legally cannot eliminate partial routes in Brooklyn before a public hearing in Brooklyn. How are Brooklyn residents supposed to know that changes under the Queens study will eliminate parts of routes in Brooklyn such as B46 riders in East Flatbush? They wouldn’t even know to check the Queens study. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

They legally cannot eliminate partial routes in Brooklyn before a public hearing in Brooklyn. How are Brooklyn residents supposed to know that changes under the Queens study will eliminate parts of routes in Brooklyn such as B46 riders in East Flatbush? They wouldn’t even know to check the Queens study. 

Reread my previous posts. 

 

11 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

The only changes regarding Brooklyn routes is the service in Queens and changes that involves Queens routes, even if they touch Brooklyn. This includes:

Splitting the B24 to the B53/Q68 

Q24 from Bushwick to Broadway Junction being replaced by the B53

B32 discontinued and replaced by the B53/B62

B57 extension to Jackson Heights 

B62 extension to Astoria 

Unless the MTA makes an announcement or the final plan is updated, these changes will be in conjunction with the Queens redesign.

 

4 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

They can take studies (of the B53/57/62) from the Brooklyn redesign and implement it by the time the Queens redesign is ready. Technically, the Brooklyn final plan needs to be ready before any implementations, but that doesn't mean they won't be implemented after the Queens redesign. 

Hearings still need to be held regardless of the borough, so there's plenty of time to announce changes if there needs to be any.