Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Q43LTD]

Similar to northern Brooklyn with the 48/69 swap. Also didn't the 68 stop dead by the aquarium at one time?

Edited January 29 by Q43LTD

[B35 via Church]

46 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Similar to northern Brooklyn with the 48/69 swap. Also didn't the 68 stop dead by the aquarium at one time?

Unlike the B49/B68 terminal swap in southern Brooklyn, I honestly think that B48/69 swap is largely immaterial for northern Brooklyn patrons....

And yeah, before Mermaid loop became a thing, it used to end over there by Brightwater Towers, where Brighton Beach av ends (well, at that point, it's considered West Brighton av IINM).

 

[Q43LTD]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

And yeah, before Mermaid loop became a thing, it used to end over there by Brightwater Towers, where Brighton Beach av ends (well, at that point, it's considered West Brighton av IINM).

It is. After you cross Ocean Parkway 

[Interested Rider]

It takes a lot for me to respond to some of these posts but reading some of the posts today, got up my dander. The focus should be on how the bus service will help the population in that community year round. This is why I have to go back and start work on how operations planning proposal   with the elimination of the bus stops on the B/3 and the B/9 which will negatively impact upon the senior population in the Midwood and Sheepshead Bay communities. 

I have submitted the proposal about the changes to the B/36 and the B/44 select bus and would like to update the proposed change for the B/44 local and select bus terminal from Avenue U to Avenue X. When I proposed this change earlier last year, we did not have the problems with the illegals being housed in the Emmons Avenue motels. As many of you know, I travel just the three blocks and the change that was proposed is needed more than ever as trying to board either a B/44 local or select bus at Avenue U and to get off at Avenue X has become a virtual war getting on and off.

As far as the B/49 limited to Kingsborough Community College, let the college provide the service, not the MTA. Everything depends upon the enrollment and based on my readings, indicates their enrollment is declining, so let it die. This is not to say that college service should be discontinued, it would be more effective if it was based on need, not involve the college.

 The B/49 should continue to Manhattan Beach but continue on Avenue Z to Coney Island Avenue then south on Coney Island Avenue to Neptune Avenue and  then east on Neptune to Shore Boulevard then resume regular route to Manhattan Beach. This change will eliminate the routing through the narrow streets and provide access to the Coney Island Avenue - Avenue Z shopping center. This would eliminate the problems with the narrow streets in Sheepshead Bay

 

 

[Future ENY OP]

18 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

It takes a lot for me to respond to some of these posts but reading some of the posts today, got up my dander. The focus should be on how the bus service will help the population in that community year round. This is why I have to go back and start work on how operations planning proposal   with the elimination of the bus stops on the B/3 and the B/9 which will negatively impact upon the senior population in the Midwood and Sheepshead Bay communities. 

I have submitted the proposal about the changes to the B/36 and the B/44 select bus and would like to update the proposed change for the B/44 local and select bus terminal from Avenue U to Avenue X. When I proposed this change earlier last year, we did not have the problems with the illegals being housed in the Emmons Avenue motels. As many of you know, I travel just the three blocks and the change that was proposed is needed more than ever as trying to board either a B/44 local or select bus at Avenue U and to get off at Avenue X has become a virtual war getting on and off.

As far as the B/49 limited to Kingsborough Community College, let the college provide the service, not the MTA. Everything depends upon the enrollment and based on my readings, indicates their enrollment is declining, so let it die. This is not to say that college service should be discontinued, it would be more effective if it was based on need, not involve the college.

 The B/49 should continue to Manhattan Beach but continue on Avenue Z to Coney Island Avenue then south on Coney Island Avenue to Neptune Avenue and  then east on Neptune to Shore Boulevard then resume regular route to Manhattan Beach. This change will eliminate the routing through the narrow streets and provide access to the Coney Island Avenue - Avenue Z shopping center. This would eliminate the problems with the narrow streets in Sheepshead Bay

 

 

So, how do you address the Sheepshead Bay Station stop for the B49?  Personally, the B49 really needs to be left alone.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

So, how do you address the Sheepshead Bay Station stop for the B49?  Personally, the B49 really needs to be left alone.

He would have everyone walk from Ave Z and E 15 Street. The walk would be slightly longer since accessing the Voorhies Ave end of the station would no longer be possible. (They already changed the B36 to make it less accessible to the station several years ago.) I am not sure if his proposed change would be any quicker since it is more indirect and traffic on Avenue Z is also heavy, although the street is not narrow. Guider, northbound would be a little shorter than Neptune to C I Ave. It could be investigated however to see if it’s any quicker. 

[Interested Rider]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

So, how do you address the Sheepshead Bay Station stop for the B49?  Personally, the B49 really needs to be left alone.

The B/49 would operate on Avenue Z in both directions from Ocean Avenue to Coney Island Avenue. The stop for the Sheepshead Bay Station going toward Bedford-Stuyvesant would be the existing stop at East 15th Street. The stop toward Manhattan Beach would be where the B/36 stops at East 15th Street.  The re-routing was in response to operations planning proposal to send the B/49 to Coney Island and it basically keeps the route intact but eliminates  the portion on the narrow streets in Sheepshead Bay.   

[B35 via Church]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:36 PM, Interested Rider said:

The B/49 should continue to Manhattan Beach but continue on Avenue Z to Coney Island Avenue then south on Coney Island Avenue to Neptune Avenue and  then east on Neptune to Shore Boulevard then resume regular route to Manhattan Beach. This change will eliminate the routing through the narrow streets and provide access to the Coney Island Avenue - Avenue Z shopping center. This would eliminate the problems with the narrow streets in Sheepshead Bay

I would only agree with rerouting the B49 like this if the route were to be truncated on the northern end.... Quite frankly, I've long been sick & tired of the B49 crawling along Ocean the way it does.

[BrooklynBus]

49 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I would only agree with rerouting the B49 like this if the route were to be truncated on the northern end.... Quite frankly, I've long been sick & tired of the B49 crawling along Ocean the way it does.

It doesn’t crawl along Ocean because of the traffic. Yes, there is some double parking, but a greater cause is frequent turnover which means many stops and many buses bunching with nothing being done to regulate them. Since there are many Kingsborough students on the 49, with many there just to save a fare, shifting them to the B44SBS going to Kingsborough, would greatly speed up the B49 by reducing the passenger load. Also, my suggestion for a state law for non emergency vehicles to give the right of way to buses pulling out of a bus stop, would not only speed up the B49, but all buses in the city, much more so than by eliminating all the bus stops now proposed for elimination.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

It doesn’t crawl along Ocean because of the traffic. Yes, there is some double parking, but a greater cause is frequent turnover which means many stops and many buses bunching with nothing being done to regulate them. Since there are many Kingsborough students on the 49, with many there just to save a fare, shifting them to the B44SBS going to Kingsborough, would greatly speed up the B49 by reducing the passenger load. Also, my suggestion for a state law for non emergency vehicles to give the right of way to buses pulling out of a bus stop, would not only speed up the B49, but all buses in the city, much more so than by eliminating all the bus stops now proposed for elimination.

I didn't say anything about traffic.... It purposely crawls along Ocean & it's maddening.

[Lex]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

I didn't say anything about traffic.... It purposely crawls along Ocean & it's maddening.

That sounds like the route is padded to hell along Ocean Avenue.

[B35 via Church]

18 minutes ago, Lex said:

That sounds like the route is padded to hell along Ocean Avenue.

Possibly... But the incessant crawling along Ocean has been apparent for (basically) as long as I've been alive... It's been the case in the 80's, the 90's, the aughts, this past decade, and it is still the case to this day.

Being perfectly honest, at this point, I hope some sort of split ends up happening with the thing.... Buses often arrive at Fulton late, due to said crawling along Ocean & due to (the combination of) traffic & passenger activity on the northern portion of the thing.... Crazy part is, they'd probably still have buses snailing along Ocean.

If I'm down in southern Brooklyn & need to get back north, I much rather prefer the B68 over the B49.... More reliable & (funny enough) even with the traffic along CI av, the B68 still moves at a better pace.

Edited February 3 by B35 via Church

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Possibly... But the incessant crawling along Ocean has been apparent for (basically) as long as I've been alive... It's been the case in the 80's, the 90's, the aughts, this past decade, and it is still the case to this day.

Being perfectly honest, at this point, I hope some sort of split ends up happening with the thing.... Buses often arrive at Fulton late, due to said crawling along Ocean & due to (the combination of) traffic & passenger activity on the northern portion of the thing.... Crazy part is, they'd probably still have buses snailing along Ocean.

If I'm down in southern Brooklyn & need to get back north, I much rather prefer the B68 over the B49.... More reliable & (funny enough) even with the traffic along CI av, the B68 still moves at a better pace.

I no longer ride it now north of Sheepshead Bay, but when I was a regular user, I don’t remembering that being the case. It was only slow due to passengers getting on and off. Back in the 1960s, I used to use it to get to the beach. The buses would fill up at Church Avenue and only stop to let people off. Some has to wait an hour for a bus to stop for them if they weren’t at a major stop. Buses were super fast stopping like once every six blocks to let people off. This was usually on weekends. They never crawled along Ocean. The speed limit also was 35 mph. So it sounds to me if buses are crawling, that the schedules are padded to much. 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I no longer ride it now north of Sheepshead Bay, but when I was a regular user, I don’t remembering that being the case. It was only slow due to passengers getting on and off. Back in the 1960s, I used to use it to get to the beach. The buses would fill up at Church Avenue and only stop to let people off. Some has to wait an hour for a bus to stop for them if they weren’t at a major stop. Buses were super fast stopping like once every six blocks to let people off. This was usually on weekends. They never crawled along Ocean. The speed limit also was 35 mph. So it sounds to me if buses are crawling, that the schedules are padded to much. 

Good to know.... I actually like to hear/read how these bus routes were utilized in prior eras.... It's one of the many reasons I like 'fanning; to compare/contrast, and/or otherwise keep up with how people utilize these bus routes.... But yeah, needless to say, the B49 isn't remotely used like that anymore.... These days, Flatbush av is an unofficial line of demarcation (so to speak) for the route, as far as riders from either end of the route not doing much through-riding past it.... Ridership (boardings/dropoffs) within both segments of the route is decent...

These days, unfortunately, super fast would be the last thing anyone would describe the B49 as being.

[BrooklynBus]

34 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Good to know.... I actually like to hear/read how these bus routes were utilized in prior eras.... It's one of the many reasons I like 'fanning; to compare/contrast, and/or otherwise keep up with how people utilize these bus routes.... But yeah, needless to say, the B49 isn't remotely used like that anymore.... These days, Flatbush av is an unofficial line of demarcation (so to speak) for the route, as far as riders from either end of the route not doing much through-riding past it.... Ridership (boardings/dropoffs) within both segments of the route is decent...

These days, unfortunately, super fast would be the last thing anyone would describe the B49 as being.

I forgot to mention that on one of the days I described going to the beach in the mid sixties, I was waiting for a B49 at Bedford and Church along with several hundred others because the B35 was one of the few routes that transferred to the B49. (It would have been easier for me to take the B12.) Special buses were put in at Church. We weren’t close enough to board the first bus, so I counted the number of people getting on. Probably one third were children and many were carrying small beach chairs. 110 people got on that New Look bus which was filled down both stairwells. It probably went straight to the beach without stopping more than a couple of times. 
 

As far as the B41, in 1978, I did a study for three days of riders getting on at the Junction. That time there were many short runs from there to Avenue U. Also, same thing in the B44. A bus came about every five or ten minutes in the evening rush hour, but if I subtracted the short runs, there were 45 minute gaps in buses coming from Downtown Brooklyn, which is why they were so important. Sadly, today, I don’t know if any remain. Back then they knew much more how to run a system without the Limiteds, SBS, and bus lanes.

Also, many buses left the Junction with just a seated load because the trains weren’t arriving. So we requested the train info from the MTA. It turned out that half the 3s and 4s leaving Manhattan and the Bronx were abandoned mid route, mostly due to door problems. That’s how bad it got. 

[Interested Rider]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:56 PM, Future ENY OP said:

So, how do you address the Sheepshead Bay Station stop for the B49?  Personally, the B49 really needs to be left alone.

The re-routing of the B/49 to Avenue Z has an impact on just the southbound stop in Sheepshead Bay as the B/49 will stop at the westbound B/36 stop at East 15th Street. Northbound B/49 buses already stop at Avenue Z and East 15th Street where the eastbound B4 and B/36 stops as well. The difference is that instead of the B/49 using the cowpath known as Sheepshead Bay Road, it substitutes Avenue Z, Coney Island Avenue and Neptune Avenue which are wider streets. In reading the section on the B/49, it seems that this would be a better alternative for service from Manhattan Beach and provide service to the Coney Island Avenue Z shopping area for many in the community.

[Interested Rider]

On 1/12/2024 at 6:12 PM, BrooklynBus said:

The B9 needs to be rerouted to serve Avenue N to Bergen Beach. The B40 is only necessary during rush hours and overnight hours. It is empty during the day along Avenue N 

Back with the B/9 to Bergen Beach where after Flatbush Avenue, it would carry air?  There are two separate and totally different communities with Flatbush Avenue being the dividing line. The B/9 is fine as there are sufficient ridership to justify the service coming from Sunset Park, Borough Park and Midwood to Kings Plaza. there are some runs that terminate at Flatbush Avenue and Kings Highway on school days and late nights.

I would prefer that those who live in Bergen Beach determine as to what service should be provided.

[Interested Rider]

20 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I would only agree with rerouting the B49 like this if the route were to be truncated on the northern end.... Quite frankly, I've lon

On 1/29/2024 at 4:47 PM, BrooklynBus said:

He would have everyone walk from Ave Z and E 15 Street. The walk would be slightly longer since accessing the Voorhies Ave end of the station would no longer be possible. (They already changed the B36 to make it less accessible to the station several years ago.) I am not sure if his proposed change would be any quicker since it is more indirect and traffic on Avenue Z is also heavy, although the street is not narrow. Guider, northbound would be a little shorter than Neptune to C I Ave. It could be investigated however to see if it’s any quicker. 

g been sick & tired of the B49 crawling along Ocean the way it does.

I have to agree with you as to the service at the northern end. My reading on the proposed changes for the B/49 is that the MTA does not know what to do with it as it is too far from either the Ulmer Park or Flatbush garages and Operations Planning is looking for a place where there is supervision for the route. The problem is that the route has always been an outlier from trolley days when trolley ran empty from the barn on Hegeman and Rockaway Avenues to Rogers Avenue was where it went into service. When it was converted to a bus route, it ran out of the West 5th Street garage which closed on 7/26/60 with the opening of the Fresh Pond garage when it was transferred to Flatbush In the 1960'she change to one way streets from two way streets did not help the route.  There is a picture in one of the books on Brooklyn trolleys that I own which shows three Ocean Avenue trolleys going in the same direction at Rogers and Flatbush  Avenues in the 1940's.

I usually do not like to propose route changes on routes that I really do not ride but I it is my opinion that the B/49 should operate on Ocean Avenue to Avenue J and then follow the B/11 route to the junction and terminate there.  My reasoning is based on that it will provide riders with transfers to the B/44 local and select bus routes which it is my opinion which is what operations planning wants to do anyway. 

Another alternative is to keep the B/49 on Ocean Avenue to the Prospect Park B,Q, Station and terminate it there. The B/48 starts there and it could provide alternative service.

 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

I have to agree with you as to the service at the northern end. My reading on the proposed changes for the B/49 is that the MTA does not know what to do with it as it is too far from either the Ulmer Park or Flatbush garages and Operations Planning is looking for a place where there is supervision for the route. The problem is that the route has always been an outlier from trolley days when trolley ran empty from the barn on Hegeman and Rockaway Avenues to Rogers Avenue was where it went into service. When it was converted to a bus route, it ran out of the West 5th Street garage which closed on 7/26/60 with the opening of the Fresh Pond garage when it was transferred to Flatbush In the 1960'she change to one way streets from two way streets did not help the route.  There is a picture in one of the books on Brooklyn trolleys that I own which shows three Ocean Avenue trolleys going in the same direction at Rogers and Flatbush  Avenues in the 1940's.

I usually do not like to propose route changes on routes that I really do not ride but I it is my opinion that the B/49 should operate on Ocean Avenue to Avenue J and then follow the B/11 route to the junction and terminate there.  My reasoning is based on that it will provide riders with transfers to the B/44 local and select bus routes which it is my opinion which is what operations planning wants to do anyway. 

Another alternative is to keep the B/49 on Ocean Avenue to the Prospect Park B,Q, Station and terminate it there. The B/48 starts there and it could provide alternative service.

 

The B49 should stay on  Ocean to Empire and then turn east on Empire to Utica. I used to live near there and a route like that would have been very helpful. 

[Interested Rider]

6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

The B49 should stay on  Ocean to Empire and then turn east on Empire to Utica. I used to live near there and a route like that would have been very helpful. 

That is your opinion and in light of the information provided by operations planning concerning the proposed changes to the B/49, therefore it can be stated that your comment represents just one person's views: yours. The reason that I posted the Ocean - Flatbush terminal is there are three other bus routes that terminate there, the B/16, 43 and the B/48 and the B/48 on Franklin parallels the B/49 running southbound from Fulton Street to Empire Boulevard.  The fact that it terminates at the B, Q and S subway lines is extremely helpful in terms of a delay on the subway.

The question that I have is their supervision at that point that the fellow posters have raised about the B/49 that can help to make the service more reliable?  I am more interested in the views of those who live in the community where you want to extend the route and those of my fellow posters who ride the B/49 as it will enable operations planning to gauge whether your suggestion merits consideration if at all.

 

 

6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

The B49 should stay on  Ocean to Empire and then turn east on Empire to Utica. I used to live near there and a route like that would have been very helpful. 

 

[BrooklynBus]

5 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

That is your opinion and in light of the information provided by operations planning concerning the proposed changes to the B/49, therefore it can be stated that your comment represents just one person's views: yours. The reason that I posted the Ocean - Flatbush terminal is there are three other bus routes that terminate there, the B/16, 43 and the B/48 and the B/48 on Franklin parallels the B/49 running southbound from Fulton Street to Empire Boulevard.  The fact that it terminates at the B, Q and S subway lines is extremely helpful in terms of a delay on the subway.

The question that I have is their supervision at that point that the fellow posters have raised about the B/49 that can help to make the service more reliable?  I am more interested in the views of those who live in the community where you want to extend the route and those of my fellow posters who ride the B/49 as it will enable operations planning to gauge whether your suggestion merits consideration if at all.

 

 

 

There is virtually no supervision at all from what I can see, and sometimes the dispatchers actually make things worse.

[SubBus]

B81: What if this route go across Beverly Rd instead of turning down Flatbush towards the junction?  Possibly use the old  terminal at the Brooklyn Terminal Market...  

[B35 via Church]

On 2/4/2024 at 6:15 AM, Interested Rider said:

I have to agree with you as to the service at the northern end. My reading on the proposed changes for the B/49 is that the MTA does not know what to do with it as it is too far from either the Ulmer Park or Flatbush garages and Operations Planning is looking for a place where there is supervision for the route. The problem is that the route has always been an outlier from trolley days when trolley ran empty from the barn on Hegeman and Rockaway Avenues to Rogers Avenue was where it went into service. When it was converted to a bus route, it ran out of the West 5th Street garage which closed on 7/26/60 with the opening of the Fresh Pond garage when it was transferred to Flatbush In the 1960'she change to one way streets from two way streets did not help the route.  There is a picture in one of the books on Brooklyn trolleys that I own which shows three Ocean Avenue trolleys going in the same direction at Rogers and Flatbush  Avenues in the 1940's.

I usually do not like to propose route changes on routes that I really do not ride but it is my opinion that the B/49 should operate on Ocean Avenue to Avenue J and then follow the B/11 route to the junction and terminate there.  My reasoning is based on that it will provide riders with transfers to the B/44 local and select bus routes which it is my opinion which is what operations planning wants to do anyway. 

Another alternative is to keep the B/49 on Ocean Avenue to the Prospect Park B,Q, Station and terminate it there. The B/48 starts there and it could provide alternative service.

I ideally don't disagree with having the southern portion serve the Junction (as well as Midwood HS), but the Junction is just strapped for space... No where to put anymore buses...

How would you handle the northern portion of the B49 though?

On 2/8/2024 at 6:39 PM, SubBus said:

B81: What if this route go across Beverly Rd instead of turning down Flatbush towards the junction?  Possibly use the old  terminal at the Brooklyn Terminal Market...  

I just think they need to throw the route in the garbage & come up with something else.... It & the proposed B48 are the two most blatant transplant-influenced proposals in this redesign AFAIC... The B103 shouldn't be nerfed at the Junction full time for this crap.

To your point, there's most certainly a need for a route b/w Church av & Av. D around here... I forget the specifics right this second, but I had a very old idea for the B23 that had it panning east of Flatbush av. to serve Beverly rd on over to Brooklyn av, to then descend to being a bit of a supplement to the B8, before having it pan towards Remsen...

[Q43LTD]

On 2/8/2024 at 6:39 PM, SubBus said:

B81: What if this route go across Beverly Rd instead of turning down Flatbush towards the junction?  Possibly use the old  terminal at the Brooklyn Terminal Market...  

I would revert the old B23 and possibly use Clarendon but that may be too close the 8

[Interested Rider]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:47 PM, BrooklynBus said:

He would have everyone walk from Ave Z and E 15 Street. The walk would be slightly longer since accessing the Voorhies Ave end of the station would no longer be possible. (They already changed the B36 to make it less accessible to the station several years ago.) I am not sure if his proposed change would be any quicker since it is more indirect and traffic on Avenue Z is also heavy, although the street is not narrow. Guider, northbound would be a little shorter than Neptune to C I Ave. It could be investigated however to see if it’s any quicker. 

What Brooklyn Bus wrote as to "he" is not true. I decided not to get involved because the change in routing was directly connected to the accident where a person was killed by a bus turning at East 17th Street. and Avenue Z which led to the change. By going straight on Avenue Z from East 17th Street to East 15th Street, the B/36 would avoid the many turns which is in line with the proposed change for the B/49 from Sheepshead Bay Road. This change was also in line with former mayor Bill DeBlasio's Vision Zero which I believe played a role in the re-routing of the B/36

The reason that I proposed using Neptune, Coney Island and Avenue Z, it provides an alternative to the narrow streets that the B/49 operates on in Sheepshead Bay which you are proposing as an alternative to the routing that I have proposed. I sincerely doubt that Operations Planning would be interested in substituting one set of narrow streets for another.   In reading through the design, Operations Planning makes it quite clear that if there is an alternative that can be used, they will change the route. (see B/16 ((for example) rerouting from 56th and 57th Streets to 60th Street ire-routing n Borough Park and the routing in Kensington).