Dems in Congress Raise Talk of Utica Ave Extension

[MHV9218]

Pretty cool to see this kind of thing even being spoken about again after four years of every transit project getting shelved. From Brooklyn Paper:

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/4-trillion-bill-infrastructure-schumer-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0f-KnaokvqBb4_UPgXLac1PpFM6cgtEwGjCEvteTo5acmszzokI1Mgdd8

Quote

Federal funds from a potential $4 trillion infrastructure package in Washington could pay for a subway expansion into southeastern Brooklyn, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said on Feb. 19.

President Joe Biden’s Administration and Democratic lawmakers in the nation’s capital are currently focused on passing a $1.9 trillion COVID-19 emergency relief bill that would, among other things, extend unemployment benefits and provide $1,400 stimulus checks to many Americans — but Schumer said the new president’s next big economic recovery package, dubbed “Build Back Better,” may include a train line to the southern corner of the borough starved of subway access.

“There’s some talk if we get the $4 trillion that we could build a subway line to southeast Brooklyn, which is a subway desert,”said the newly-minted senate leader at a Zoom panel with the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce Friday, as the New York Post first reported.

The Park Slope lawmaker in passing also mentioned that some of the federal money could go toward the crumbling Brooklyn-Queens Expressway’s triple-cantilever section around Brooklyn Heights, but that government authorities will still have to iron out the plans for the beleaguered highway.

“There probably could be money if they ever figure out what to do with the BQE overpass,” he said. “I’m not going to tell them what to do, they’re going to have to figure it out for themselves.”

Schumer did not give more specifics on the subway plans, but the Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials studied improving transit along the busy Utica Avenue corridor in February 2020 just before the coronavirus hit.

The MTA study included looking at extending a subway line south from either Fulton Street’s A and C stop or the Eastern Parkway 3 and 4 stops, which would extend the train through the neighborhoods of East Flatbush, Flatlands, Marine Park, and Mill Basin.

The B46 bus and its express line run along Utica Avenue there and are the busiest routes in the borough and the third-busiest in the city pre-pandemic with 44,000 daily commuters and frequent over-capacity occupancies of 108-percent during morning rush hours on weekdays and 121-percent on Saturday midday.

A spokesman for MTA said the $5 million study will inform the agency’s next capital plan for 2025. 

“We’re grateful to Majority Leader Schumer for securing billions of dollars in federal funding to help save the MTA’s basic services during this pandemic,” said Shams Tarek in a statement. “This study looks at different transit improvement concepts using various modes and will be evaluated along with other major regional transit expansion projects as we build the next capital program.”

The Authority in 2019 also eyed a $1-2 billion passenger train project dubbed the Triboro Line, which would run on old freight lines through some of the same southern Brooklyn areas, along with Queens and the Bronx.

The agency did not respond to a follow-up request regarding the status of that project.

Local state Sen. Andrew Gounardes — whose district includes subway-less nabes such as Marine Park and Gerritsen Beach — hailed Schumer’s comments, adding that better transit would be a boon for local businesses.

“The Build Back Better program is a massive opportunity for the MTA and I’m glad that Senator Schumer is talking about funneling the funds towards outer borough transit deserts, such as those that would benefit from the Utica Avenue extension,” Gounardes said in a statement. “Finally connecting these neighborhoods to the rest of the borough and making it easier to access these small businesses and restaurants in these communities would be a tremendous opportunity for our economic recovery.”

 

There's a lot of objection to this stimulus from the right, but hopefully Congress will do the right thing and invest in the single most economically productive, sustainable, and ethical form of transportation.

[R10 2952]

Honestly, I'd rather see them use the funds to extend the Nostrand Avenue Line to Kings Plaza Mall.

In a time of limited funding, I would say a / extension would be a much better priority as far as SE Brooklyn is concerned.

Edited February 23, 2021 by R10 2952

[Deucey]

34 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

There's a lot of objection to this stimulus from the right, but hopefully Congress will do the right thing and invest in the single most economically productive, sustainable, and ethical form of transportation.

Smart politics would be to just do it and let those Righties get really pissed off so it reminds voters that when they get angry, they try overthrowing the US Government.

But Schumer & Co believe the folks across the aisle are friends and good people. Which is why Dems don't keep majorities long, lost flyover country's legislative majorities, and the country went to 5#|7 since 1995.

[MHV9218]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

But Schumer & Co believe the folks across the aisle are friends and good people. Which is why Dems don't keep majorities long, lost flyover country's legislative majorities, and the country went to 5#|7 since 1995.

Well, they're learning. Definitely seems like a lot of lessons learned from the Obama days, especially since half the admin was there during the Obama days! A lot less trying to befriend the crazies. If they can get this Covid across through reconciliation, that's a sign they're willing to move without waiting. Hopefully there's something like that when it comes to a stimulus/infrastructure bill.

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, I'd rather see them use the funds to extend the Nostrand Avenue Line to Kings Plaza Mall.

In a time of limited funding, I would say a / extension would be a much better priority as far as SE Brooklyn is concerned.

I could see why Utica is the priority; it balances the load away from Nostrand, by using some of the train capacity that just terminates at Crown Heights.

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

Well, they're learning. Definitely seems like a lot of lessons learned from the Obama days, especially since half the admin was there during the Obama days! A lot less trying to befriend the crazies. If they can get this Covid across through reconciliation, that's a sign they're willing to move without waiting. Hopefully there's something like that when it comes to a stimulus/infrastructure bill.

The Administration is learning; The House has learned.

It's the Senate and state legislative Dems that seem to not get that they're Neville Chamberlain vs Hitler.

 

DAMMIT I BROKE GODWIN'S LAW.

[MHV9218]

7 minutes ago, Deucey said:

The Administration is learning; The House has learned.

It's the Senate and state legislative Dems that seem to not get that they're Neville Chamberlain vs Hitler.

DAMMIT I BROKE GODWIN'S LAW.

Yeah, although Neville never had to deal with Joe Manchin!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Smart politics would be to just do it and let those Righties get really pissed off so it reminds voters that when they get angry, they try overthrowing the US Government.

But Schumer & Co believe the folks across the aisle are friends and good people. Which is why Dems don't keep majorities long, lost flyover country's legislative majorities, and the country went to 5#|7 since 1995.

Please. Any "negotiations" by the Democrats with the Republicans is nothing but a pony show. They are going to ram that stimulus bill through with no Republican support because they don't need the Republicans. It's fine, but let's not pretend that the Democrats want to negotiate. Let them blow up the deficit more. I'm just waiting for Biden to say that we need to raise taxes to pay for all of this spending because believe me, it's coming. Likely not this year, but probably in 2022.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[MHV9218]

Ah. That train is never late. Four years of Trump skyrocketing the deficit with his corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the rich, but the minute Biden's in power, Republicans pretend they're deeply concerned about the deficit. Right on time.

[Deucey]

5 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Yeah, although Neville never had to deal with Joe Manchin!

Neville wasn't smart enough to be Joe Manchin.

Matter fact, Neville was the better PM but Churchill is remembered and canonized because he gave better speeches and conducted a war.

 

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Any "negotiations" by the Democrats with the Republicans is nothing but a pony show.

Can't negotiate in good faith with a caucus that invents precedent then discards it when convenient, and then endorses violence against the government because the manbaby from Jamaica Estates didn't win.

Dems are slowly getting that truth. And we'll get SAS Phase 2, Utica Av, and Gateway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Deucey said:

Can't negotiate in good faith with a caucus that invents precedent then discards it when convenient, and then endorses violence against the government because the manbaby from Jamaica Estates didn't win.

Dems are slowly getting that truth. And we'll get SAS Phase 2, Utica Av, and Gateway.

There was no real intention of negotiating though. The Democrats don't have to, so why would they? We both know they have the majority needed (albeit by a slim majority), so they can throw the Republicans a bone, or say screw it, this is what we want and this is what we're going with, which is pretty much what they're doing. Fine if they want to spend on infrastructure, because Lord knows we need it. As a country, we have some of the worst infrastructure around.

I would prefer to see the monies spent on things here in America for Americans. Get rid of the pork and focus on stimulus here, since it's supposed to be about stimulating our ecomomy.

 

4 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Ah. That train is never late. Four years of Trump skyrocketing the deficit with his corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the rich, but the minute Biden's in power, Republicans pretend they're deeply concerned about the deficit. Right on time.

Oh I'm not concerned about it. It's your buddy that noted that taxes will be raised. Let's be real here. The Democrats like raising taxes and going bonkers with overregulation, and Biden is a perfect example of that. Tax and spend... I expect to see something for this spending. As I said, they want to spend on infrastructure, go for it. They want to help struggling Americans. I'm fine with that. This plan should be focused on Americans and put Americans first. The pork can be cut out though and don't incentivize people to sit home and collect unemployment. Put them to work where possible.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[SoSpectacular]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Oh I'm not concerned about it. It's your buddy that noted that taxes will be raised. Let's be real here. The Democrats like raising taxes and going bonkers with overregulation, and Biden is a perfect example of that. Tax and spend... I expect to see something for this spending. As I said, they want to spend on infrastructure, go for it. They want to help struggling Americans. I'm fine with that. This plan should be focused on Americans and put Americans first. The pork can be cut out though and don't incentivize people to sit home and collect unemployment. Put them to work where possible.

Ask Texas what happened when they deregulated their power grid

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

Ask Texas what happened when they deregulated their power grid

Ask Texas what happened when they called themselves going green. lol Regulation is a good and is needed. Overregulation is not so good.

[NewFlyer 230]

I think an extension of the Nostrand Ave line would be a better project to work on. At least then they could build a better terminal for the  and  trains because that current terminal is insufficient.

[Lex]

19 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, I'd rather see them use the funds to extend the Nostrand Avenue Line to Kings Plaza Mall.

In a time of limited funding, I would say a / extension would be a much better priority as far as SE Brooklyn is concerned.

Truth be told, I'd rather have it stay on Nostrand Avenue to the south and tie a hypothetical Flatbush Avenue rail service to Grand Central and a reinstated Rockaway Beach Branch.

[CenSin]

On 2/23/2021 at 9:31 PM, bobtehpanda said:

I could see why Utica is the priority; it balances the load away from Nostrand, by using some of the train capacity that just terminates at Crown Heights.

How they’ll get the line to split cleanly is another question. Right now, there are no switches connecting the Manhattan-bound local and express tracks east of the station. East of the station is presumably where the provisions for the merge are. Either they have to build a flying junction west of the station with another platform below or they have to build new switches. It’s not clear which one is easier.

On 2/24/2021 at 6:17 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Ask Texas what happened when they called themselves going green. lol Regulation is a good and is needed. Overregulation is not so good.

Don’t blame he democrats. All of these problems happened under Republican thumb and their hands-off approach to everything. Capitalism doesn’t exist to serve the common good. It exists to extract maximum money for the least amount of investment.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, CenSin said:

Don’t blame he democrats. All of these problems happened under Republican thumb and their hands-off approach to everything. Capitalism doesn’t exist to serve the common good. It exists to extract maximum money for the least amount of investment.

All of what problems? 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:57 PM, MHV9218 said:

Pretty cool to see this kind of thing even being spoken about again after four years of every transit project getting shelved. From Brooklyn Paper:

https://www.brooklynpaper.com/4-trillion-bill-infrastructure-schumer-biden/?fbclid=IwAR0f-KnaokvqBb4_UPgXLac1PpFM6cgtEwGjCEvteTo5acmszzokI1Mgdd8

 

There's a lot of objection to this stimulus from the right, but hopefully Congress will do the right thing and invest in the single most economically productive, sustainable, and ethical form of transportation.

It would be great to see something positive come from this. But there’s not an easy answer. An extension off the  would cover most of the Utica corridor, but it would leave the existing Fulton St Line with much less service than it currently has. An extension off the  at Montrose would have the same problem. The often-talked about  extension wouldn’t have that problem, but it wouldn’t cover the portion of Utica north of Eastern Parkway. Hopefully the MTA’s study produces a good result.

[R10 2952]

As far as federal funding goes, I don't see anything materializing until the filibuster is finally killed.  Which is probably not going to happen for several years, at least not until Manchin and Sinema get primaried.

[bobtehpanda]

 

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

As far as federal funding goes, I don't see anything materializing until the filibuster is finally killed.  Which is probably not going to happen for several years, at least not until Manchin and Sinema get primaried.

Manchin is not going to get primaried and if he loses he'll be replaced by an actual Republican.

WV went for Trump 68-29. A more liberal Democrat is not going to win West Virginia lol.

Edited May 14, 2021 by bobtehpanda

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

 

Manchin is not going to get primaried and if he loses he'll be replaced by an actual Republican.

WV went for Trump 68-29. A more liberal Democrat is not going to win West Virginia lol.

I know some New Yorkers that moved down to West Virginia, but even so, not enough of them to off-set the Republicans. lol It's a state that has continued to become more Republican if anything.

[R10 2952]

10 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

Manchin is not going to get primaried and if he loses he'll be replaced by an actual Republican.

WV went for Trump 68-29. A more liberal Democrat is not going to win West Virginia lol.

Fine by me if Dems lose West Virginia; all the effort and money they're throwing down the drain to appease Manchin is a waste at the end of the day.  Would be better spent making sure Raphael Warnock gets re-elected in Georgia.

But them backing Manchin is pure cowardice; they'd rather cater to a Democrat in name only and scuttle major legislation in the process, than focus on winning states that are actually competitive.

Edited May 14, 2021 by R10 2952

[shiznit1987]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:30 PM, CenSin said:

Capitalism doesn’t exist to serve the common good. It exists to extract maximum money for the least amount of investment.

....Which *is* the common good. The frank truth is that most people are trying to advance themselves and theirs, which I don't judge them for. Capitalism is a vehicle to channel our innate self interest into productive achievement. 

Capitalism, long story short, is individual people making individual choices regarding their economic future. If "Capitalism" is racist, greedy, oppressive, exclusionary or unfair that's because people are. The same people so many fundamentally believe are going to somehow create this perfectly planned system in which no one has to work hard, nothing is ever unfair and nothing bad happens. 

 

 

 

[R10 2952]

3 hours ago, shiznit1987 said:

....Which *is* the common good. The frank truth is that most people are trying to advance themselves and theirs, which I don't judge them for. Capitalism is a vehicle to channel our innate self interest into productive achievement. 

Capitalism, long story short, is individual people making individual choices regarding their economic future. If "Capitalism" is racist, greedy, oppressive, exclusionary or unfair that's because people are. The same people so many fundamentally believe are going to somehow create this perfectly planned system in which no one has to work hard, nothing is ever unfair and nothing bad happens. 

Is it really, though? Most major economic crashes in this country have been the result of deregulating capitalism.  The stock market in 1929, the savings & loan crisis of the late '80s, the downturn of 2009... The rich gamble their money, it goes wrong and they dynamite the economy, and then ordinary working people get laid off through no fault of their own.

Why should a regular worker like me foot the bill for some rich jerk's screwups?  Gates, Bezos or Musk wouldn't lend you a hand even if you were drowning. Capitalism left to its own devices will end up turning the rich into kings and the rest of us into slaves.  Just because communism was a bad system that failed, doesn't automatically make capitalism the common good.  Not by a long shot.

Edited May 14, 2021 by R10 2952

[shiznit1987]

25 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Quote

Is it really, though? Most major economic crashes in this country have been the result of deregulating capitalism.  The stock market in 1929, the savings & loan crisis of the late '80s, the downturn of 2009... The rich gamble their money, it goes wrong and they dynamite the economy, and then ordinary working people get laid off through no fault of their own.

Quote

Why should a regular worker like me foot the bill for some rich jerk's screwups?  Gates, Bezos or Musk wouldn't lend you a hand even if you were drowning. Capitalism left to its own devices will end up turning the rich into kings and the rest of us into slaves.  Just because communism was a bad system that failed, doesn't automatically make capitalism the common good.  Not by a long shot.

We don't know Gates, Musk or Bezos personally but I do know their billions in philaphropy will do far more good than I ever will. As far as slavery and a race to the bottom is concerned, that's the job of local and national governments to build social safety nets to ensure we have the infastructure and systems in place to make sure people don't fall through the cracks. I'm not a "Tea Party" type who thinks people should just sink or swim but we should have fully functioning healthcare, education, social services systems to help individuals. The difference is that I also know that Capitalism has built far more prosperity and personal freedom than any "planned" system ever will. All of those European welfare states everyone gushes about are Capitalist as well. Sweden has twice as many billionaires per capita as America. 

Despite what the DSA set will tell you, the means of production are either going to be in private hands or centrally controlled. Saying one is "Socialist" and singing the praises of France and Scandinavia is a cop out. They're both Capitalist countries that happen to have strong welfare nets. You either believe in private enterprise or you don't. You either believe in private property or you don't. I don't see the wisdom in signing over one's freedom to a central authority that will tell you were to live, what to own or what to do. It's never worked out well. The MTA is as centrally planned as an org can be with no profit motive, yet judging by the workers who post here it doesn't sound like the utopia of fairness one would expect.