2016 Bus Ridership Stats

[bobtehpanda]

Perhaps people stopped working in Downtown Manhattan and/or moved out of NYC? It could be a possibility. 

 

This is probably the likely answer. Since 9/11 Downtown has been shedding office workers like no tomorrow and gaining residents in their place. Almost all the downtown projects these days are new residences or conversions from office to residential.

 

This is unlikely to change given the sheer amount of tax breaks being used to justify Hudson Yards' existence and impending Midtown East rezoning. From an employers' perspective, those are the places to be since it's not that hard for suburban commuters to get there, whereas Downtown is a bit of a schlep for suburbanites.

[B35 via Church]

Predicting next year the M15 will probably drop out of the top 10 and the B46 will rise to second place....

.....I honestly don't see how the B46 isn't the busiest route.

Here in 2017, without even bothering to look at any stats, I don't see the B46 as the top dog (so to speak) anymore - even if the MTA could account for every single farebeater... On this end of the B46 (south of eastern pkwy), the decrease in overall ridership is palpable & north of eastern pkwy it's even worse (IMO, you can thank SBS and gentrification for that).....

 

The M15 & the B46 will see losses next year that'll be more significant to them both than any losses seen by the Bx12.... Can't see either one of them losing THAT much ridership to where either one of them will fall below the B6 in rank (and I don't see the B6 gaining that many riders either).... So they'll both be #2 & #3 in the ranking in the next go round of stats - the question'll be, how much closer to the B6 (13 million something yearly) will both of them be.....

 

I mean seriously, the M15 aint fin to lose upwards of 4 million riders in a year, if every route below it (in the top 10 ranking) remains relatively stagnant.... Even if you append a "probably" to try to provide cover for yourself, you still made that prediction for the M15 in one year....

 

....I'd like to see what your 5 year prediction for the route looks like...

LMAO!

[East New York]

This is just a general statement, most people don't realize that some of the ridership looses are due to service shutdowns. For every day the system is not running because of inclement weather is an average of 7 million lost swipes. I have the documentation somewhere, but if you look back at the losses, compare them to years when we had major hurricanes and or snow storms.....Also remember all new buses are coming with passenger counters and older buses will be retrofitted. Now each and every passenger entering and exiting will be counted and recorded. This way 100% of all farebeaters and passengers the op let on and didn't hit the function key for will be counted. I'm just waiting on those numbers before I get into this convo....

 

#Food4Though

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is just a general statement, most people don't realize that some of the ridership looses are due to service shutdowns. For every day the system is not running because of inclement weather is an average of 7 million lost swipes. I have the documentation somewhere, but if you look back at the losses, compare them to years when we had major hurricanes and or snow storms.....

#Food4Though

While there is some validity in what you're saying, the fact of the matter is if you provide service that is prompt, people will use it. If you don't they won't, and so that's how I look at it. We had some snow storms here and there, but still. The overall trend is really due to poor service. I stopped using the express bus daily because of unreliable, slow service, and only now have I switched back after almost 5 months of buying monthly Metro-North passes. Of late the express buses have been better. Still stuck in traffic at times, but they are coming as scheduled overall which has helped.

[East New York]

While there is some validity in what you're saying, the fact of the matter is if you provide service that is prompt, people will use it. If you don't they won't, and so that's how I look at it. We had some snow storms here and there, but still. The overall trend is really due to poor service. I stopped using the express bus daily because of unreliable, slow service, and only now have I switched back after almost 5 months of buying monthly Metro-North passes. Of late the express buses have been better. Still stuck in traffic at times, but they are coming as scheduled overall which has helped.

I'm not wrong with at all, I'm just saying that's a factor of at least 30 million lost rides systemwide since we started doing those full shutdowns. Then when service resumes it's almost always free across all agencies. Gotta add all those in too.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not wrong with at all, I'm just saying that's a factor of at least 30 million lost rides systemwide since we started doing those full shutdowns. Then when service resumes it's almost always free across all agencies. Gotta add all those in too.

My question for you what (if anything) has changed with bus service to make it better? Aside from SBS, there doesn't seem to be much going on to improve punctuality.

[East New York]

My question for you what (if anything) has changed with bus service to make it better? Aside from SBS, there doesn't seem to be much going on to improve punctuality.

In my personal opinion not much of anything is better. If anything, the few positive changes over the last couple years are outweighed with the fact that Service is at a D+ in my opinion overall at best where just two years ago a gave them a C.

 

There is also the fact that now days many people like myself don't have to wait for the bus anymore. If it's not there on the app, train or bus it is. For me, I can see even buses that aren't showing on GPS most times. Lots of people leave at times because they think no bis is coming, however it's a Ghost bus and not showing up.......

 

I can think of at lesst 10 buses off the top of my head running around now with no GPS. At least 5 of them are brand new and not even in the system yet which is a bit weird.....

 

In my upcoming report I will mention how I feel at least 60% of the routes need to be re-evaluate. Certain runs will NEVER be on time the way they are set up unless a driver leaves the terminal early or skips a break somewhere. Lots of changes are needed. I think it's just so many at ones it's hard to keep everything together at a time like this. LIRR, M Shittle and L shutdown are all pending issues that need immediate attention. We are also dead smack in the middle of conformed and pending orders for more than 2,000 buses.

[S78 via Hylan]

I can concur with you on the ghost buses. Yesterday morning, I had to catch the Q24 which was scheduled to get to my stop at 2:25 AM. I checked Bustime, but nothing showed up. Luckily, that bus came otherwise I would have been screwed. The bus was 4826.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I can concur with you on the ghost buses. Yesterday morning, I had to catch the Q24 which was scheduled to get to my stop at 2:25 AM. I checked Bustime, but nothing showed up. Luckily, that bus came otherwise I would have been screwed. The bus was 4826.

Another issue with the so-called "ghost buses" is sometimes they disappear then re-appear.  I don't know if it's the browser or what, but I like using Foxzilla because I can tap on the actual bus and find out what bus# it is and I find that sometimes a bus or buses will disappear.  Seems like BusTime itself just not working at times.  

[East New York]

The thing is, the GPS, Farebox, and Destination signs are all tied in together.

 

Example, I don't know if any of you have ever noticed, but when everything is functioning properly it works like this. Driver enters run into farebox, destination sign automatically changes to said run, and the GPS activates for the proper direction.

 

Now there are multiple reasons a bus could disappear and reappear. One of the main reasons is this, say there is a gap in service and a dispatcher instructs an operator to go Next Bus Please to a specific location then go back into regular service. The moment he changes the sign, the GPS removes the bus from all customer based apps. Dispatchers, MTA brass, and myself however can still see the location of the bus even in that mode. However for all of you, the bus just disappears. Another top reason is a bus breaks down or gets into an accident. It's going to either disappear, or remain at the location of the driver doesn't manually change the sign.

 

Anyone ever see a bus ahead of your location that doesn't move and ends up getting passed by other buses? It's highly likely it broke down or there was some other type of incident.

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

I often wonder if downtown passengers take a train up to midtown during the PM rush to catch those midtown bus counterparts.  Traffic has been getting worse and worse and it usually takes a minimum of 45 minutes to get to the midtown tunnel from the beginning of the route.  Lately, buses have been getting backed up around State and Battery due to traffic and it can sometimes take 45-50 minutes to do just the downtown loop, and then you have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic all the way to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd.   

 

At least with traveling up the Lex line you can be lucky to catch a 6th Ave bus at Lex and 57th/59th or a 3rd avenue bus, which takes practically no time at all to get to the Queensborough bridge.  And with the exception of QM24/34, they all travel via Queens Blvd now which gets you to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd no worse, if not slightly quicker, than the LIE during the PM rush.   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I often wonder if downtown passengers take a train up to midtown during the PM rush to catch those midtown bus counterparts.  Traffic has been getting worse and worse and it usually takes a minimum of 45 minutes to get to the midtown tunnel from the beginning of the route.  Lately, buses have been getting backed up around State and Battery due to traffic and it can sometimes take 45-50 minutes to do just the downtown loop, and then you have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic all the way to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd.   

 

At least with traveling up the Lex line you can be lucky to catch a 6th Ave bus at Lex and 57th/59th or a 3rd avenue bus, which takes practically no time at all to get to the Queensborough bridge.  And with the exception of QM24/34, they all travel via Queens Blvd now which gets you to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd no worse, if not slightly quicker, than the LIE during the PM rush.   

I'm pretty sure some of them do assuming the subways aren't a mess.

[IAlam]

I often wonder if downtown passengers take a train up to midtown during the PM rush to catch those midtown bus counterparts.  Traffic has been getting worse and worse and it usually takes a minimum of 45 minutes to get to the midtown tunnel from the beginning of the route.  Lately, buses have been getting backed up around State and Battery due to traffic and it can sometimes take 45-50 minutes to do just the downtown loop, and then you have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic all the way to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd.   

 

At least with traveling up the Lex line you can be lucky to catch a 6th Ave bus at Lex and 57th/59th or a 3rd avenue bus, which takes practically no time at all to get to the Queensborough bridge.  And with the exception of QM24/34, they all travel via Queens Blvd now which gets you to Queens/Woodhaven Blvd no worse, if not slightly quicker, than the LIE during the PM rush.   

 

 

I'm pretty sure some of them do assuming the subways aren't a mess.

 

Mhmm  ... Those buses are pretty much only effective in the morning.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Mhmm  ... Those buses are pretty much only effective in the morning.

I'm speaking from experience.  The X13 did the Downtown Loop. If I used it, it was always at the last stop before the tunnel.  Would take the subway down to get it. Even then they were hit or miss.  Either delayed or didn't show up.  In fact I'm not sure which was worse... The X13 or the X16 with regards to that, even though the X16 didn't do the Loop.  They need to have Bus Only Lanes or something in that area. Just too much congestion.

[IAlam]

I'm speaking from experience.  The X13 did the Downtown Loop. If I used it, it was always at the last stop before the tunnel.  Would take the subway down to get it. Even then they were hit or miss.  Either delayed or didn't show up.  In fact I'm not sure which was worse... The X13 or the X16 with regards to that, even though the X16 didn't do the Loop.  They need to have Bus Only Lanes or something in that area. Just too much congestion.

Maybe an HOV lane on the FDR too

[Deucey]

Maybe an HOV lane on the FDR too

But where would you put it, since the #1 lane on the FDR is the thru traffic lane at Bk Bridge and becomes the middle lane by the UN. You'd have to reconfigure the entire highway so it made sense.

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

I don't think it's really possible to put an HOV lane on the FDR.  It's very windy and has frequent grade and elevation changes going from just 34th to Brooklyn Bridge.  Maybe they'd be able to build an HOV above the FDR like they have on the Gowanus but we know that would never happen in this lifetime.

 

The FDR usually isn't even that bad even when there is heavy traffic on it, but getting from 34th/FDR to the tunnel entrance can sometimes take around 10 minutes too when traffic is backed up along 34th street.  

 

Sadly, I don't really think there is any fix for the downtown buses, it's not like you can just run the LIE HOV lane in reverse for the PM rush. And sending the bus up 3rd avenue to the QB bridge, or sending the bus via Manhattan or Williamsburg bridge would have its own set of problems that probably wouldn't save any time either.    

[checkmatechamp13]

QM's: I really thought the MTA was going to put the 3 Avenue variants into their own rows. Oh well, maybe next year.

 

X10 & X17: Nice to see the route gained 13.7K more riders last year. Likely will be overseen by the gain of 87K riders on the X17 though.  

 

Nah, they group the X12/42, X27/37, and X28/38 together. I'm pretty sure they'll just keep grouping the QM30/40-series routes with their lower-numbered counterparts.

 

In any case, the X17 has been seeing the more consistent increases in ridership. The X10 seems to just fluctuate in the same general area. Look at the numbers from 2013 (the first full year of Sunday X17 service). The X10 saw a decrease of around 200-300 weekend riders, whereas the X17 saw an increase of around 600-700 weekend riders. Weekdays, the X10 saw mild decreases, whereas the X17 saw mild increases for most years. (Look at it this way: The X10/17 are basically tied at this point for weekend ridership. It used to be that the X10 beat the X17 by a long shot).

 

I will say that the X17 just seems to be run better than the X10 in general. I see the X10 bunch regularly off-peak, whereas I rarely see that on the X17.

[B35 via Church]

Maybe an HOV lane on the FDR too

Explain to us where this fictional lane would be designated.

[Q43LTD]

Ain't the FDR 2 lanes in both directions?

[IAlam]

Explain to us where this fictional lane would be designated.

It wouldn't be impossible to create one along the left side of each roadway between the Brooklyn Bridge and 23rd st.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Ain't the FDR 2 lanes in both directions?

 

There a 3 in both directions, but there's issues with placing a bus lane

 

It wouldn't be impossible to create one along the left side of each roadway between the Brooklyn Bridge and 23rd st.

 

It wouldn't, but the effectiveness would be questioned. All the entrances/exits on the FDR are made on the left side of the roadway (between 34 Street and the Brooklyn Bridge). Not only that, but there are many exits, and just as about as many entrances, spaced relatively close to each other. The BM's and the Staten Island/NYCT Brooklyn Express buses using the FDR Drive don't get on the main Roadway until about 16 Street. South of 5th Street, the bus lane would be interrupted by cars weaving in and out of the exits. 

 

Putting the bus lane on the right only causes more problems than solve, with the buses weaving into traffic every single time they enter or exit the main roadway.

 

The only way to solve this issue would be to take the buses off the FDR and have them go on a busway (not just bus lanes) of sorts on current streets. Where or how it occur would be an inconvenience to certain passengers on those bus routes. Avenue C after a certain point only goes to one driving lane in each direction.

 

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I would like to see a busway of sorts on 1st Avenue (or a better East Side thoroughfare, if there is) between 34 Street and Downtown if it's feasible. Two lanes can be used as bus only lanes (and a median could be used to separate the lanes from current traffic), and you have 2-3 moving vehicle lanes. The problem that would arise though, is south of Houston Street, where it turns into Allen Street. Allen Street is commercial, and you would have to reconfigure everything there for there to be enough space for everyone. 

 

Lets say the current northbound lanes would be part of the busway, you knock out half of the lanes available for other traffic in both directions. You could move the two bike lanes (which are about 1/2 a regular lane each), and there's one lane, and then have all the Local/SBS/Express/Intercity buses utilize the three lanes (the current southbound lanes would become two way, with one parking and one driving lane in each direction). However, the community would probably not appreciate losing the traffic lane (because of the deliveries and any double parking that occurs). 

 

Between 34th and Houston, it would not be very hard to have only two lanes, at least in the AM, the SI Expresses are going in the same direction of traffic. In the PM though, everything goes south, with the exception of the M15 a few BM's still heading up to Midtown. That would cause problems if a M15 Local is in the way (for the SBS and the BM's). 

 

Overall point is, dedicated bus lanes/busway is not easy to make between Midtown and Downtown.

[B35 via Church]

It wouldn't be impossible to create one along the left side of each roadway between the Brooklyn Bridge and 23rd st.

I see... Just because it's possible, makes it plausible.... Got it.

 

I would like to see a busway of sorts on 1st Avenue (or a better East Side thoroughfare, if there is) between 34 Street and Downtown if it's feasible. Two lanes can be used as bus only lanes (and a median could be used to separate the lanes from current traffic), and you have 2-3 moving vehicle lanes. The problem that would arise though, is south of Houston Street, where it turns into Allen Street. Allen Street is commercial, and you would have to reconfigure everything there for there to be enough space for everyone. 

 

Lets say the current northbound lanes would be part of the busway, you knock out half of the lanes available for other traffic in both directions. You could move the two bike lanes (which are about 1/2 a regular lane each), and there's one lane, and then have all the Local/SBS/Express/Intercity buses utilize the three lanes (the current southbound lanes would become two way, with one parking and one driving lane in each direction). However, the community would probably not appreciate losing the traffic lane (because of the deliveries and any double parking that occurs). 

 

Between 34th and Houston, it would not be very hard to have only two lanes, at least in the AM, the SI Expresses are going in the same direction of traffic. In the PM though, everything goes south, with the exception of the M15 a few BM's still heading up to Midtown. That would cause problems if a M15 Local is in the way (for the SBS and the BM's). 

 

Overall point is, dedicated bus lanes/busway is not easy to make between Midtown and Downtown.

Yeah man, nothing easy about it at all when you're dealing with a numbers game (of sheer motorists driving around & about in Manhattan).... I'd like to see a busway too, but at this point in the game, it's a pipe dream unfortunately..... You'd think gridlock at Canal and/or Houston couldn't get any worse.....

[Deucey]

Ain't the FDR 2 lanes in both directions?

It's 3 lanes in both directions for the most part, but at Bk Bridge the two right lanes disappear for the approach to the bridge; there's left side entrances and at Willis/Madison Ave Bridge junctions, the road reduces to two lanes.

 

Do without a rationalization rebuild, there's no place to put a consistent bus lane, unless you wanna do like the city did with fire lanes on the avenues in the 80s/90s...

[IAlam]

There a 3 in both directions, but there's issues with placing a bus lane

 

 

It wouldn't, but the effectiveness would be questioned. All the entrances/exits on the FDR are made on the left side of the roadway (between 34 Street and the Brooklyn Bridge). Not only that, but there are many exits, and just as about as many entrances, spaced relatively close to each other. The BM's and the Staten Island/NYCT Brooklyn Express buses using the FDR Drive don't get on the main Roadway until about 16 Street. South of 5th Street, the bus lane would be interrupted by cars weaving in and out of the exits. 

 

Putting the bus lane on the right only causes more problems than solve, with the buses weaving into traffic every single time they enter or exit the main roadway.

 

The only way to solve this issue would be to take the buses off the FDR and have them go on a busway (not just bus lanes) of sorts on current streets. Where or how it occur would be an inconvenience to certain passengers on those bus routes. Avenue C after a certain point only goes to one driving lane in each direction.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to see a busway of sorts on 1st Avenue (or a better East Side thoroughfare, if there is) between 34 Street and Downtown if it's feasible. Two lanes can be used as bus only lanes (and a median could be used to separate the lanes from current traffic), and you have 2-3 moving vehicle lanes. The problem that would arise though, is south of Houston Street, where it turns into Allen Street. Allen Street is commercial, and you would have to reconfigure everything there for there to be enough space for everyone. 

 

Lets say the current northbound lanes would be part of the busway, you knock out half of the lanes available for other traffic in both directions. You could move the two bike lanes (which are about 1/2 a regular lane each), and there's one lane, and then have all the Local/SBS/Express/Intercity buses utilize the three lanes (the current southbound lanes would become two way, with one parking and one driving lane in each direction). However, the community would probably not appreciate losing the traffic lane (because of the deliveries and any double parking that occurs). 

 

Between 34th and Houston, it would not be very hard to have only two lanes, at least in the AM, the SI Expresses are going in the same direction of traffic. In the PM though, everything goes south, with the exception of the M15 a few BM's still heading up to Midtown. That would cause problems if a M15 Local is in the way (for the SBS and the BM's). 

 

Overall point is, dedicated bus lanes/busway is not easy to make between Midtown and Downtown.

I agree with some sort of busway to allow buses to bypass traffic, but with the First av idea, the only main issue I'd have is that is that the bus still has to operate in stop and go traffic. Buses are still subject to traffic light pedestrians, and bikers who'll probably will utilize the busway to avoid street traffic. On top of that southbound traffic would be subject to a lot more red lights, which can make time saved questionable during certain parts of the day.