V to Metropolitan? It's possible.

[Fresh Pond]

Dumb idea, but: why not just extend the platforms from Essex to Metropolitan to hold 10-car trains?

The only station I think would have a problem would be Metropolitan, but then that way you can have a full 10-car train for the entire line.

 

The cost of it would be too extreme

[R44 5278]

I'm curious as to how the V would be cut down to 4 R46s a train and how would they handle the excessive congestion at Essex St. As I said on another thread due to the Nassau St realignment, all Jamaica-bound trains must use the center track at Essex St since there's no switch to the southernmost track. On the other hand, all west/northbound trains from the WillyB to the 6th Avenue Line must use the center track as there's no connecting track with the northernmost track. There shouldn't be a problem with eastbound trains to Myrtle/Jamaica from the 6th Avenue Line since they can still use the unused southernmost track at Essex St. Check this out: http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/detail-chrystie.png

[R32 3348]

I don't see what the big deal is. I figure the new would need only a train or two more worth of 4-car sets, if any at all. When the goes to Bay Parkway, it has about the same amount of stops the would, traveling to Middle Village from Forest Hills. It's around 35 stops.

Who rides (or purposes to ride) the , anyway. I've never seen a standing room only V, ever, and I ride the QBL four times a week--once during the evening rush (I'm not a expert, but I've seen a packed , , or ) I like the idea (eliminating an entire line would definitely save money and add cars), the would be more relevant. When someone railfans it on YouTube I go, "Man, nothing special about this line. It's whole route has been done before; by another train." Although, I could see if it allowed the to run express all the way to Jamaica-179th St., that would make it unique. Even still, you'd hope for a RFW on the F to film Hillside Ave. express tracks, so...still, pretty much a copy cat train.

I don't want to turn this into yet another thread but I use the QB line 10 times a week (twice a day 5 days a week), and while I usually use the or going to school I might sometimes use the going to and from school. The gets SRO, and almost packed between Forest Hills and Jackson Heights. Then it empties out at Jackson Heights, and gets SRO again by the time it reaches Queens Plaza. It also empties out at Lexington Ave. - 53rd St. but I don't ride the past that so I don't know how it's like in Manhattan.

I'm curious as to how the V would be cut down to 4 R46s a train and how would they handle the excessive congestion at Essex St. As I said on another thread due to the Nassau St realignment, all Jamaica-bound trains must use the center track at Essex St since there's no switch to the southernmost track. On the other hand, all west/northbound trains from the WillyB to the 6th Avenue Line must use the center track as there's no connecting track with the northernmost track. There shouldn't be a problem with eastbound trains to Myrtle/Jamaica from the 6th Avenue Line since they can still use the unused southernmost track at Essex St. Check this out: http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/detail-chrystie.png

The would just use the (M)'s fleet if this were to happen, so it'd be an 8-car train of R160s.

[LRG]

Dumb idea, but: why not just extend the platforms from Essex to Metropolitan to hold 10-car trains?

The only station I think would have a problem would be Metropolitan, but then that way you can have a full 10-car train for the entire line.

 

Dumb idea??? NOT! It makes perfect sense to extend these platforms! Why was the Eastern Division left with the shortest platforms while all the others were extended??? Sure it may be problematic but this is something the TA should have done from the get go.

[R32 3348]

I agree with you. It makes perfect sense but this move is being done to cut service, not to spend more money extending platforms for more convenient service. I don't blame them either.

[KTrainExp]

I'm curious as to how the V would be cut down to 4 R46s a train and how would they handle the excessive congestion at Essex St.

 

They won't. The R46s won't go through the Chrystie Street Connection. They'll only use 60 footers and it will be strictly 8 car 60 footers.

 

Plus, the R46s are in married pairs of 4 car sets as far as my knowledge goes.

[Zman]

Dumb idea??? NOT! It makes perfect sense to extend these platforms! Why was the Eastern Division left with the shortest platforms while all the others were extended??? Sure it may be problematic but this is something the TA should have done from the get go.

 

Metropolitan is too tight to extend to ten cars. The cost to demolish the Dispatcher's Office and move back the switch would make it cost prohibitive, and you can't extend it forward because the street is only one car length away.

[nel070]

Would the then come from the eny yard and run the 160s that belong to the (M)and what would become of the 46s the uses from the jamaica yard

[LRG]

Would the then come from the eny yard and run the 160s that belong to the (M)and what would become of the 46s the uses from the jamaica yard

 

The would have no choice to, because it would be restricted to eight car-lengths. As for the 46s, they may go to another line or be used for extra service on the rest of the Jamaica routes.

[nel070]

The would have no choice to, because it would be restricted to eight car-lengths. As for the 46s, they may go to another line or be used for extra service on the rest of the Jamaica routes.

 

Maybe they would send the extra 46s from the to pitkin to replace the 44s if they decide to retire them

[CenSin]

I'm curious as to how the V would be cut down to 4 R46s a train and how would they handle the excessive congestion at Essex St. As I said on another thread due to the Nassau St realignment, all Jamaica-bound trains must use the center track at Essex St since there's no switch to the southernmost track. On the other hand, all west/northbound trains from the WillyB to the 6th Avenue Line must use the center track as there's no connecting track with the northernmost track. There shouldn't be a problem with eastbound trains to Myrtle/Jamaica from the 6th Avenue Line since they can still use the unused southernmost track at Essex St. Check this out: http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/detail-chrystie.png

What's wrong? They make the perfect configuration:

The northbound "express" track has been removed. The south-bound express track is now used for Brooklyn-bound trains heading to Jamaica and Metropolitan Avenue. The unused track hidden on the other side (northbound local) is used for reroutes and do not serve any stops between Chambers Street and Essex Street (making it an express, but only for northbound trains); at Canal Street the passageways to the northbound platform have been sealed off—or maybe I'm just unable to find them.

 

The southermost two tracks would be used for Jamaica and Metropolitan-bound service. The northernmost track will continue to serve trains bound for Broad Street in addition mid-town Manhattan. There are no merging issues a là 36 Street in Brooklyn with the and the .

 

P.S. I would not refer to nycsubway.org for an accurate reflection of the system's track configurations.

 

Disclaimer: I made this from my railfanning observations. As you all know, there are many obstacles in the way during railfanning, so the track map might not be entirely accurate either.

[EE Broadway Local]

Would the then come from the eny yard and run the 160s that belong to the (M)and what would become of the 46s the uses from the jamaica yard

nel070, I think if this becomes reality, the new would make use of Fresh Pond Yard and also have access to Jamaica Yard.

 

Fresh Pond is a small train yard but it serves the (M)'s R160As

[LRG]

nel070, I think if this becomes reality, the new would make use of Fresh Pond Yard and also have access to Jamaica Yard.

 

Fresh Pond is a small train yard but it serves the (M)'s R160As

 

Remember EE, Fresh Pond, like Canarsie, serves only as a satellite yard to East New York. The is based out of East New York.

[INDman]

Remember EE, Fresh Pond, like Canarsie, serves only as a satellite yard to East New York. The is based out of East New York.

 

Unlike Canarsie, Fresh Pond is a lay-up yard only. I don't think they even have cleaners there like they do at Canarsie which has the only car wash on the Eastern Div.

[LRG]

Unlike Canarsie, Fresh Pond is a lay-up yard only. I don't think they even have cleaners there like they do at Canarsie which has the only car wash on the Eastern Div.

 

Interesting....

[CenSin]

I'm curious as to how the V would be cut down to 4 R46s a train and how would they handle the excessive congestion at Essex St. As I said on another thread due to the Nassau St realignment, all Jamaica-bound trains must use the center track at Essex St since there's no switch to the southernmost track. On the other hand, all west/northbound trains from the WillyB to the 6th Avenue Line must use the center track as there's no connecting track with the northernmost track. There shouldn't be a problem with eastbound trains to Myrtle/Jamaica from the 6th Avenue Line since they can still use the unused southernmost track at Essex St. Check this out: http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/detail-chrystie.png

This would be the aftermath of the + merge:

[m7zanr160s]

What is SRO?

[LRG]

This would be the aftermath of the + merge:

 

All I have to say is this: such a change will put over Lower Manhattan travelers in a big and bad way. The fact there will be only one train from the East that will serve Lower Manhattan will be a drastic change that will take a very long time for (and ) line residents to get used to, especially if the will be the only line that will serve Nassau Street. There will be a need to have more service than is even needed along the Jamaica Line since it runs 12 trains an hour under five-minute headways (rush hours peak direction, it runs six because the runs six, and they operate every ten minutes but put together, but put together is 12 TPH).

 

This is why the MTA is making a big mistake with every service cut they want to implement. The reason why they're even in this deficit is because they don't know how to spend their money for the right reasons. They're too busy wasting their money on ordering new buses that aren't even needed at this time. The TA is in the right ordering new subway cars. The bus fleet has a couple of years before an update would even be needed.

[Grand Concourse]

While I do agree the RTSs are probably a few years away from retirement, it also depends on how much longer the O5s have like the CNGs. New buses will be needed either way.

 

I admit I don't ride the M from Essex to Broad st and beyond in the rush hours, but is it really going to impact the J that much if one less line runs to lower Manhattan?

If they ever do combine the V-M, then they can't cut the W as the R alone can't handle Lower Manahttan. And he 4/5 are also crowded as it is. The W must replace the M to Brooklyn.

[LRG]

While I do agree the RTSs are probably a few years away from retirement, it also depends on how much longer the O5s have like the CNGs. New buses will be needed either way.

 

Absolutely. I believe the MTA could have waited a year or two before placing an order for new buses. Now we have the DesignLines coming in as well as the NovaBus Artics coming in as well. Isn't the average bus life 20 years? It seems as if the bus fleets are being retired prematurely.

 

I admit I don't ride the M from Essex to Broad st and beyond in the rush hours, but is it really going to impact the J that much if one less line runs to lower Manhattan?

 

Of course it's going to impact the line, because it's only one line that would serve Nassau Street and not the normal two (and the supplemental rush hour peak direction third) and right now, it does not seem like there's a need to increase service at this moment from its 12 TPH headway during rush hour, unless the TA decides to put in trains from Broadway Junction and have some trains start and end their runs there, like what is done with the (not all trains go to Canarsie; some short turn at Myrtle Avenue, Broadway Junction, or Atlantic Avenue.

 

If they ever do combine the V-M, then they can't cut the W as the R alone can't handle Lower Manahttan. And he 4/5 are also crowded as it is. The W must replace the M to Brooklyn.

 

Another reason why cutting the is a bad idea. There should be a feed from all of the lines that use Lower Manhattan during rush hours(I'll define Lower Manhattan as below Canal Street, as that's where the borderline for Lower Manhattan is pretty much). Running the during rush hours allows West End riders Lower Manhattan access. Supplemental trains from Brooklyn during rush hours, and even some midday put-ins, give Sea Beach residents a ride to Lower Manhattan. The already provides Lower Manhattan access but it needs all the help it can get along Fourth Avenue. Running two local services (sometimes, a third when the gets put in and put out) deters riders from crowding on the above 36th Street if they need to get to Lower Manhattan and ride the instead since the (4)/(5)/(6), the (N)/(Q)/®/(W) and the (J)/(M)/(Z) are within walking distance from each other,

[Grand Concourse]

If they run the W to Brooklyn [besides the 3 additional trains], I think that's all that's needed to replace the M. The W would give West End riders another direct to LM and midtown ride than to transfer to the R.

 

I understand about the M and Fulton St, but riders can still transfer to the other lines at Atlantic-Pacific.

[LRG]

If they run the W to Brooklyn [besides the 3 additional trains], I think that's all that's needed to replace the M. The W would give West End riders another direct to LM and midtown ride than to transfer to the R.

 

That seems valid. Even if the (M)/(V) combo doesn't happen, and hoping that the doesn't get cut to Broad but if it does, at least you'll have the and the running in tandem and there'll be frequent service in Manhattan along Nassau Street. The and do a good job running in Manhattan even in the evening. I can recall taking a train at 10:30 one evening yet it was good to know that there was an train I could have got on if there was a need to and I wouldn't have to worry about a transfer later on in the route.

 

I understand about the M and Fulton St, but riders can still transfer to the other lines at Atlantic-Pacific

.

 

True, but why inconvenience rush hour riders with having to make additional transfers if they really don't need to? During rush hours, a passenger's main concern is to get from one place to another as fast as possible. Transferring across the platform just to wait for a sole local is not going to help very much. The runs fine but it needs more trains along the route. Unfortunately, not all trains turn at 95th Street because they terminal can't handle all those trains during the rush hour, so some start and end at 59th Street or 36th Street. As soon as those trains enter service at those stops, they need to get on the road ASAP so as not to hold up trains from 95th Street (or in the case of 36th Street trains, a train coming from 59th Street), or an train. I can see more trains starting their runs at 59th or 36th for put-in service to compensate for the loss of service. That's the only way the will be able to pass as the sole Fourth Avenue Local.

[Grand Concourse]

I said the would run with the on 4th Av. Even now the is the only local on 4th Av middays and the would just replace the as a rush hour supplemental service.

[LRG]

I said the would run with the R on 4th Av. Even now the is the only local on 4th Av middays and the W would just replace the M.

 

If the is reduced to a rush hour bi-directional service, then I could see this happening.

[Grand Concourse]

Oh of course. Even if the W isn't cut, middays they could always keep it at Whitehall as it does now.