8thAveExpress Posted January 15, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 15, 2011 Hey guys, first, i wanted to apologize for silly questions, as I'm new to this site, even though I've been fascinated by the MTA trains for a while. I tried using the search button, but couldn't find the answer to these questions: 1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train! 2) Are the tracks on the IRT line more narrow, or is it just the tunnel in general? Like, can an IRT train run on a normal letter line? 3) Is it true that the MTA needs a boat to transport trains from Brooklyn to Staten Island? There's no 1-way rundown track anywhere connecting the 2 boroughs? 4) How does the MTA decide when to replace trains? The C train has cars from when Moses was around, yet the F line also used to have the same cars (R32), then the R46 and even those were replaced by the R160. Is it because they invest more money in the F line? 5) Is it true that the MTA got cheap with the R160s, and were supposed to have a big display of what train it is in the front of the train, on the side not being used by the T/O, kind of like the R46 but digitally? And they were supposed to have internal screens like the R train that shows the train/path? Just like the current L trains I'm sure I have more questions I can't think of, but thank you for helping me figure out these answers! Sorry for the silly questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 15, 2011 The IRT tunnels are narrower in some places, the track gauge is the same. Yes, IRT trains can run on lettered lines, but there would be a foot gap between platform and train. The MTA uses trucks to transport SIR train cars from Clifton to Coney Island for major repair. The R160s were NOT supposed to have a big sign at the front, that was used on the demonstration NTT and the MTA decided it wasn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R160 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 15, 2011 2) The train only has 1 connection with the rest of the system. There is a double crossover at Queensboro Plaza that allows it to cross over to the Queens-bound side of the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 15, 2011 Question : There are R68/A on the , its just that when extra service is needed an there isn't any R160 lefts, the Yard Master brings in the R68As. Tho there are R68/As in regular service on the . I caught one yesterday at 49th St heading to Kings County. : The IND/BMT cars won't fit on an IRT line thats for sure, but if the IRT was to run on the IND/BMT lines it would fit but have a gab between the platform and train. If you wanted an IRT fleet in service on an IND/BMT line (Which won't happen) then a nice gap filter will do. No boats needed, you got the S53/79/93 Bus from Bay Ridge to SI via I278 (Verrazano bridge) Car replacement goes by the oldest and/or the ones that NEED retirement due to bad condition or something. But retirement won't occur till around 35-45 years around. Idk where you get this Big Display thing from.. The screens inside are FIND which is the new and better way instead of a Strip map. Even tho on he sh9tty R160 its bugged on many of its cars.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lance25 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 15, 2011 @8thAveExpress: First off, welcome to the forums. Enjoy your stay. As to your questions, I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability. 1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train! I'm going to let someone with more knowledge answer this as I have no clue. 2) Are the tracks on the IRT line more narrow, or is it just the tunnel in general? Like, can an IRT train run on a normal letter line? The tunnels from Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall to Grand Central-42 St on Lexington Avenue, the 42nd Street shuttle and the Broadway-Seventh Avenue line from Times Sq-42 St to 145 St ( line) are the narrowest sections of the system and can only fit A-Division trains. Yes, an A Division train can run on the B Division, but due to the gap difference (about a foot wide), they can't run in service. 3) Is it true that the MTA needs a boat to transport trains from Brooklyn to Staten Island? There's no 1-way rundown track anywhere connecting the 2 boroughs? No, there isn't any track connection between Brooklyn and Staten Island. There have been plans to connect the two boroughs since the 1920s, but following the Great Depression, those plans fell to the wayside. Today, customers must use a ferry or bus to travel to Manhattan or Brooklyn from Staten Island. 4) How does the MTA decide when to replace trains? The C train has cars from when Moses was around, yet the F line also used to have the same cars (R32), then the R46 and even those were replaced by the R160. Is it because they invest more money in the F line? I'm pretty sure the (MTA)'s decision to replace cars is dependent on the age of the cars and the amount of people a particular line transports. I'm not sure if you know or not, but originally, the and were to receive the R160s, but due to overcrowding on the and lines, those lines got the new trains. 5) Is it true that the MTA got cheap with the R160s, and were supposed to have a big display of what train it is in the front of the train, on the side not being used by the T/O, kind of like the R46 but digitally? And they were supposed to have internal screens like the R train that shows the train/path? Just like the current L trains Again, I'm going to let someone else handle this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bveguy Posted January 15, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 15, 2011 Hey guys, first, i wanted to apologize for silly questions, as I'm new to this site, even though I've been fascinated by the MTA trains for a while. I tried using the search button, but couldn't find the answer to these questions: 1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train! 2) Are the tracks on the IRT line more narrow, or is it just the tunnel in general? Like, can an IRT train run on a normal letter line? 3) Is it true that the MTA needs a boat to transport trains from Brooklyn to Staten Island? There's no 1-way rundown track anywhere connecting the 2 boroughs? 4) How does the MTA decide when to replace trains? The C train has cars from when Moses was around, yet the F line also used to have the same cars (R32), then the R46 and even those were replaced by the R160. Is it because they invest more money in the F line? 5) Is it true that the MTA got cheap with the R160s, and were supposed to have a big display of what train it is in the front of the train, on the side not being used by the T/O, kind of like the R46 but digitally? And they were supposed to have internal screens like the R train that shows the train/path? Just like the current L trains I'm sure I have more questions I can't think of, but thank you for helping me figure out these answers! Sorry for the silly questions... 1) They scrapped the old R40 Slants on the B, so those 68s on the N went to replace the B and some other stuff that I'm not even gonna bother thinking about. 2) NYCT runs on Standard Gauge. It is just that the infrastructure is more narrow. An IRT car can run on a B Div line, but not in revenue service because of the gap between the car and platform. 3) No, you simply put the subway car onto a flatbed on a truck and drive it around. 4) They know when to replace cars by observation. 5) No, they didn't get cheap with the R160s. The car data sheet shows the same exact thing that we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
105th St KK QJ JJ J Posted January 15, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 15, 2011 IRT trains have run on BMT tracks for fan trips. example: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 15, 2011 Hey guys, first, i wanted to apologize for silly questions, as I'm new to this site, even though I've been fascinated by the MTA trains for a while. I tried using the search button, but couldn't find the answer to these questions: 1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train! 2) Are the tracks on the IRT line more narrow, or is it just the tunnel in general? Like, can an IRT train run on a normal letter line? 3) Is it true that the MTA needs a boat to transport trains from Brooklyn to Staten Island? There's no 1-way rundown track anywhere connecting the 2 boroughs? 4) How does the MTA decide when to replace trains? The C train has cars from when Moses was around, yet the F line also used to have the same cars (R32), then the R46 and even those were replaced by the R160. Is it because they invest more money in the F line? 5) Is it true that the MTA got cheap with the R160s, and were supposed to have a big display of what train it is in the front of the train, on the side not being used by the T/O, kind of like the R46 but digitally? And they were supposed to have internal screens like the R train that shows the train/path? Just like the current L trains I'm sure I have more questions I can't think of, but thank you for helping me figure out these answers! Sorry for the silly questions... 1) The runs R68A's, but it doesn't run R68's. 2) The tracks on IRT Lines are not narrower then the tracks on the BMT/IND Lines. In fact all the track lines in America follow the same gauge 4 feet 8, and a half inches which is standard. The tunnels are narrower therefore IRT Lines require narrower, but longer cars, and yes IRT car trains can run on BMT/IND Lines, but because of the width difference there would be a giant gap between the platform and the train (1 feet). 3) NYC Trains can get to Staten Island if they are transported there by trucks, and boats. A tunnel from Brooklyn to Staten Island has been proposed since 1919, but Staten Islanders would reject that idea. Later on the Great Depression, and Robert Moses killed the last of those dreams. 4) The reason why the keeps those R32's is, because they can last a long time due to their stainless steel bodies that is one reason, and the other one would be as mentioned earlier due to overcrowding on other lines they got the new cars first. Plus there is a rumor or something going on that mentions the R160's can run on the Rockaway's due to electric problems. 5) The R160's are not cheap they cost $1.3 million dollars for each 4, and 5 car set. They were never suppose to have a roll sign. The R110B does have the things you mentioned earlier, but they are already retired partially, because they were test trains, and they had low distance between mileages failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 15, 2011 1) The runs R68A's, but it doesn't run R68's. 2) The tracks on IRT Lines are not narrower then the tracks on the BMT/IND Lines. In fact all the track lines in America follow the same gauge 4 feet 8, and a half inches which is standard. The tunnels are narrower therefore IRT Lines require narrower, but longer cars, and yes IRT car trains can run on BMT/IND Lines, but because of the width difference there would be a giant gap between the platform and the train (1 feet). 3) NYC Trains can get to Staten Island if they are transported there by trucks, and boats. A tunnel from Brooklyn to Staten Island has been proposed since 1919, but Staten Islanders would reject that idea. Later on the Great Depression, and Robert Moses killed the last of those dreams. 4) The reason why the keeps those R32's is, because they can last a long time due to their stainless steel bodies that is one reason, and the other one would be as mentioned earlier due to overcrowding on other lines they got the new cars first. Plus there is a rumor or something going on that mentions the R160's can run on the Rockaway's due to electric problems. 5) The R160's are not cheap they cost $1.3 million dollars for each 4, and 5 car set. They were never suppose to have a roll sign. The R110B does have the things you mentioned earlier, but they are already retired partially, because they were test trains, and they had low distance between mileages failures. That lil tidbit about the electric problem in the rockaways isnt a rumor.R-160s have caused power issues out there due to the fact that LIPA(Long Island Power Authority) distribute electricity to the far rockaway section of Queens and the R160s kept blowing out LIPA`s transformers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted January 15, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 15, 2011 Wirelessly posted via (BlackBerry8520/4.6.1.259 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100) 1) The runs R68A's, but it doesn't run R68's. 2) The tracks on IRT Lines are not narrower then the tracks on the BMT/IND Lines. In fact all the track lines in America follow the same gauge 4 feet 8, and a half inches which is standard. The tunnels are narrower therefore IRT Lines require narrower, but longer cars, and yes IRT car trains can run on BMT/IND Lines, but because of the width difference there would be a giant gap between the platform and the train (1 feet). 3) NYC Trains can get to Staten Island if they are transported there by trucks, and boats. A tunnel from Brooklyn to Staten Island has been proposed since 1919, but Staten Islanders would reject that idea. Later on the Great Depression, and Robert Moses killed the last of those dreams. 4) The reason why the keeps those R32's is, because they can last a long time due to their stainless steel bodies that is one reason, and the other one would be as mentioned earlier due to overcrowding on other lines they got the new cars first. Plus there is a rumor or something going on that mentions the R160's can run on the Rockaway's due to electric problems. 5) The R160's are not cheap they cost $1.3 million dollars for each 4, and 5 car set. They were never suppose to have a roll sign. The R110B does have the things you mentioned earlier, but they are already retired partially, because they were test trains, and they had low distance between mileages failures. Just to correct that a lil bit, its $1.3 million PER CAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thAveExpress Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted January 16, 2011 Thank you everyone for your detailed responses! It def. helped answer a bunch of questions I had. I hope to learn a lot from everybody in this forum. Everyone seems so helpful here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 16, 2011 Thank you everyone for your detailed responses! It def. helped answer a bunch of questions I had. I hope to learn a lot from everybody in this forum. Everyone seems so helpful here! I'm also curious as to why the N got R160s... I remember that the N some years back got poor remarks on service. Since then the MTA began running more trains and then they started putting the R160s on the line. I assume they felt that this would help with improving service since there would be less breakdowns. Perhaps its also due to the areas that they serve... For example, Astoria is a cool neighborhood to hang out in and the population is exploding there. It is still cheaper than Manhattan but prices continue to rise... I will say that the line seems to be a lot better than a few years ago. They've also improved service from what I can see on the Q line also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted January 16, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 16, 2011 I'm also curious as to why the N got R160s... I remember that the N some years back got poor remarks on service. Since then the MTA began running more trains and then they started putting the R160s on the line. I assume they felt that this would help with improving service since there would be less breakdowns. Perhaps its also due to the areas that they serve... For example, Astoria is a cool neighborhood to hang out in and the population is exploding there. It is still cheaper than Manhattan but prices continue to rise... I will say that the line seems to be a lot better than a few years ago. They've also improved service from what I can see on the Q line also... At one point in time the used to be a mixed fleet of R40's, R68's, and other CI cars and swapping the cars to R160's, it improved the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtetro Posted January 16, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 16, 2011 That lil tidbit about the electric problem in the rockaways isnt a rumor.R-160s have caused power issues out there due to the fact that LIPA(Long Island Power Authority) distribute electricity to the far rockaway section of Queens and the R160s kept blowing out LIPA`s transformers. It sounds like neither the nor LIPA did the proper due dilligence in specing out transformers to feed power to the subways. I haven't seen the power consumption specs on the 160's compared to other cars, but it should not have been enough to blow multiple transformers - if the transformers were were properly chosen in the first place. The tranformers, therefore, must have been operating very close to their operating limits to begin with. Repeated additional loads in such a case would eventually blow the transformers. I've been dealing with utilities for 40+ years. It has always been standard to add 50% to the anticipated maximum load for safety and "breathing room" when designing distribution feeds. I can't imagine that the R160's draw 50% more than other cars. Again, this tells me that the transformers were not properly sized to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 16, 2011 Share #15 Posted January 16, 2011 Hey guys, first, i wanted to apologize for silly questions, as I'm new to this site, even though I've been fascinated by the MTA trains for a while. I tried using the search button, but couldn't find the answer to these questions: 1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train! 2) Are the tracks on the IRT line more narrow, or is it just the tunnel in general? Like, can an IRT train run on a normal letter line? 3) Is it true that the MTA needs a boat to transport trains from Brooklyn to Staten Island? There's no 1-way rundown track anywhere connecting the 2 boroughs? 4) How does the MTA decide when to replace trains? The C train has cars from when Moses was around, yet the F line also used to have the same cars (R32), then the R46 and even those were replaced by the R160. Is it because they invest more money in the F line? 5) Is it true that the MTA got cheap with the R160s, and were supposed to have a big display of what train it is in the front of the train, on the side not being used by the T/O, kind of like the R46 but digitally? And they were supposed to have internal screens like the R train that shows the train/path? Just like the current L trains I'm sure I have more questions I can't think of, but thank you for helping me figure out these answers! Sorry for the silly questions... 1) I believe the R68s were moved to other lines to replace the older trains that ran on those lines. So the same number of R68/R68A trains are still in service, just on different lines. 2) The tracks for the IRT are standard gauge (I believe the rails are 4'8'' apart). So an IRT train can run on a BMT line (and trains do this when they go to the Coney Island Yard). The only difference is that the car itself is narrower, because IRT clearances are smaller than BMT/IND clearances (in terms of the tunnels being narrower and the space between the wall and platform being narrower). 3) I believe they use trucks, not boats to transport SIR cars to the Coney Island Yard. There is no track connection between SI and the rest of the system. 4) They try to keep the yards as uniform as possible, so you'll see one line running the same types of trains. Otherwise, they would have to train maintainance people how to work with different types of trains. I don't know how they assign cars to different yards (generally, Pitkin/207th Street Yard, which serve the (A)/© get older trains and Coney Island gets newer trains, because they (correct me if I'm wrong) are delivered there, probably because of the proximity to the water (I'm pretty sure they come in by barge from Japan) 5) I think the R160s are exactly how you describe them, with the digital display on the side showing the line and route (for example: Bay Ridge-95th Street/Queens Blvd Local/Broadway Local/via 60th Street). They have a display that shows what station is next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 16, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 16, 2011 At one point in time the used to be a mixed fleet of R40's, R68's, and other CI cars and swapping the cars to R160's, it improved the service. Yes, I remember those times too since I was using the N to get down to Bay Ridge to catch the S53 to Staten Island from time to time. I remember the increase in service immediately after the N got such poor marks too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGTeleport Posted January 16, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 16, 2011 but because of the width difference there would be a giant gap between the platform and the train (1 feet). This is a misconception. The "9-foot" wide IRT cars are actually about 8'7" wide. The "10-foot" wide BMT/IND cars are actually about 9'9" wide. The 14" (or 1'2") gap is obviously half on the left-hand side of the train and half on the right-hand side. So the gap is actually only about 7 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Louis Car 09 Posted January 17, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 17, 2011 It sounds like neither the nor LIPA did the proper due dilligence in specing out transformers to feed power to the subways. I haven't seen the power consumption specs on the 160's compared to other cars, but it should not have been enough to blow multiple transformers - if the transformers were were properly chosen in the first place. The tranformers, therefore, must have been operating very close to their operating limits to begin with. Repeated additional loads in such a case would eventually blow the transformers. I've been dealing with utilities for 40+ years. It has always been standard to add 50% to the anticipated maximum load for safety and "breathing room" when designing distribution feeds. I can't imagine that the R160's draw 50% more than other cars. Again, this tells me that the transformers were not properly sized to begin with. Very informative.:tup:I would think the 160s consume a bit more juice due to computer components and AC motors which BTW are re-generative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted January 17, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 17, 2011 "1) On the N line, why did they get rid of the R68 trains? Aren't they new trains (from the late 80's/early 90's)? The D line still has it and it's a great train!" They din't. I was just on an R68 N train today. They got rid of them, but then put them back after they abolished the W line. I personally think the R68s suck. As a tall person, I cannot fit into the forward/ rear facing seats closest to the window without my knees rubbing against the person sitting in the seat directly in front of me. I'm about 6 feet tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted January 17, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 17, 2011 Are they really that slow? How? Almost every R-built car up to the NTTs has 115 HP/axle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 17, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 17, 2011 Are they really that slow? How? Almost every R-built car up to the NTTs has 115 HP/axle... R1-9 cars have one motor truck with two 200HP motors. edit: furthermore, (real) SMEEs use 100HP motors (in B-B arrangement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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