New Routes

[Via Garibaldi 8]

A few years back, I remember Bloomberg having this whole ribbon cutting ceremony with the MTA when the BXM18 was introducted from Riverdale up in the Bronx to Downtown Manhattan. It seemed as if the route came out of nowhere, as I hadn't heard of this being in the works until the day I heard about it on NY1. How does the MTA create and determine where new routes are needed?

[checkmatechamp13]

If I understand it, this is how it goes (BrooklynBus probably knows a lot more about this, since used to work for Operations Planning)

 

They have staff in Operations Planning who study the routes to see where improvements can be made. They analyze traffic patterns (both road traffic and passenger traffic) and perform surveys in certain neighborhoods and determine whether the service could be rerouted to better serve the community, become more reliable and/or save money.

 

As far as new routes go, that's probably harder to study. They probably have to analyze the surrounding routes and figure out if there is demand for a new route (for example, the BxM18 was probably created because they saw that a lot of BxM1/BxM2 passengers were transferring to get to Lower Manhattan, so they decided to make a direct route).

 

I don't know how they make the decisions regarding routes extended into virgin territory (the S55 to the AKCC, S89, and B83 to Gateway). They probably have to estimate the ridership that a destination will generate (maybe they use demographics, such as the % of people without cars and the location of their jobs) to determine if the extension will be worthwhile.

[B35 via Church]

public outcries from certain communities that have enough political clout to make an agency like the MTA take action...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

public outcries from certain communities that have enough political clout to make an agency like the MTA take action...

 

Good point... Looks like Riverdale is well served... I know a Dominican guy that lives up in Riverdale who works across the hall from me (IT tech. dude) and he uses the subway with the consensus that the subway is faster... I was curious esp. about the BXM18 because it is the only BXM express bus that goes south of 23rd street. Why do all of them terminate at 23rd st. anyway? You have several QM buses that do the Downtown Loop... How has ridership been so far on the BXM18?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

A few years back, I remember Bloomberg having this whole ribbon cutting ceremony with the MTA when the BXM18 was introducted from Riverdale up in the Bronx to Downtown Manhattan. It seemed as if the route came out of nowhere, as I hadn't heard of this being in the works until the day I heard about it on NY1. How does the MTA create and determine where new routes are needed?

 

Bloomberg didn't "introduce" the route itself - he introduced the new MCI coaches and/or the MTA takeover. The BxM18 has existed for at least 30 years.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Bloomberg didn't "introduce" the route itself - he introduced the new MCI coaches and/or the MTA takeover. The BxM18 has existed for at least 30 years.

 

 

So who had the route then previously? The way it was explained in the media it was a new route. I had never seen any BXM18 stops before...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

So who had the route then previously? The way it was explained in the media it was a new route. I had never seen any BXM18 stops before...

 

It was new to the MTA, but not new overall. Liberty Lines ran it from the late 1970's until the takeover.

 

It always made the same Bronx pick-ups as the BxM1/2. The Manhattan pick-ups along Church Street had small signs showing the Liberty Lines logo and listing the three or four daily trips. In 1988-89, it added a pick-up at 26th Street for transfers from the BxM3 after Transit killed the X61 (Broadway-Sedgwick-Wall Street).

[SevenEleven]

So who had the route then previously? The way it was explained in the media it was a new route. I had never seen any BXM18 stops before...

 

Liberty Lines had the route previously, the operator that is Yonkers now before the takeover. The BxM18 serves as the only downtown bus from Riverdale, maybe that's why its needed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It was new to the MTA, but not new overall. Liberty Lines ran it from the late 1970's until the takeover.

 

It always made the same Bronx pick-ups as the BxM1/2. The Manhattan pick-ups along Church Street had small signs showing the Liberty Lines logo and listing the three or four daily trips. In 1988-89, it added a pick-up at 26th Street for transfers from the BxM3 after Transit killed the X61 (Broadway-Sedgwick-Wall Street).

 

Well I think the fact the buses were switched to MTA Bus has helped boost ridership in some instances. The fact these express buses were so obscure previously I'm sure had something to with them having difficulty staying afloat. Now they've got new MCI buses after years of using run down ones and they're certainly more visible for those that may not have known about them before.

[Shortline Bus]

Also another reason the BXM and Westchester County Bee Line BXM4c all end at around 23rd Street/5th Avenue (other than the (BXM18) and the (BXM1) at 34th St/3rd Ave.)is that Lower Manhattan lacks a location to terminate them.

 

Not to get too off topic but I always thought that the BXM2 and BXM18 should merge and run between Riverdale Ave-262 nd St(Bronx/Yonkers city line)and Lower Manhattan. Also 1-2 trips of the BXM7 downtown to the Wall St. area as well during rush hours in the peak direction.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Also another reason the BXM and Westchester County Bee Line BXM4c all end at around 23rd Street/5th Avenue (other than the (BXM18) and the (BXM1) at 34th St/3rd Ave.)is that Lower Manhattan lacks a location to terminate them.

 

Not to get too off topic but I always thought that the BXM2 and BXM18 should merge and run between Riverdale Ave-262 nd St(Bronx/Yonkers city line)and Lower Manhattan. Also 1-2 trips of the BXM7 downtown to the Wall St. area as well during rush hours in the peak direction.

 

Neither does 23rd street... Maybe having all of those express buses terminate there contributes to the congestion problems on 23rd street.

[checkmatechamp13]

I believe some routes terminate at 26th Street, so they aren't clogging up 23rd Street.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Not to get too off topic but I always thought that the BXM2 and BXM18 should merge and run between Riverdale Ave-262nd St(Bronx/Yonkers city line)and Lower Manhattan.

 

For the first 15 years or so, the last northbound BxM18 made all downtown pickups, then proceeded to 33rd Street and became a BxM2. That ended when the BxM3 transfers were introduced.

 

 

 

Also 1-2 trips of the BXM7 downtown to the Wall St. area as well during rush hours in the peak direction.

 

NYBS tried that during the mid-1980's. It didn't last more than a few months.

[B35 via Church]

I believe some routes terminate at 26th Street, so they aren't clogging up 23rd Street.

 

just the BxM3 & BxM4 do that.... some BxM11's may also...

 

reason being, they layover on the north side of madison sq. park (26th st)...

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not true at all. they were quite visable. You live in SI, you weren't surrounded by them. growing up, I was using the private lines much more often than the city routes.

 

I grew up in Sheepshead Bay, so I was used to seeing the Command buses, but I can't recall the stops being very visible. Now I think the signage is far more visable and of course those MCIs are hard to miss. For a while they didn't have schedules posted at some stops. People associate public transportation in NYC w/the MTA so when they see the logo it clears up any doubts or questions they may have about taking the service. I would also think that the fact that Metrocard can be used on MTA Bus and New York City transit buses also helps.

[Forest Glen]

Even before the takeover, I'd see the Queens Surface express buses on 57 Street. The QM1/A was very popular. It also seemed like QM21 ridership was higher back then than now (though that may have more to do with the recession). My late grandfather lived in East Harlem. I always used to wonder about the funny looking blue buses (they were MCI Classics but I didn't know that back then) on 3rd Avenue.

[LRG]

Even before the takeover, I'd see the Queens Surface express buses on 57 Street. The QM1/A was very popular. It also seemed like QM21 ridership was higher back then than now (though that may have more to do with the recession). My late grandfather lived in East Harlem. I always used to wonder about the funny looking blue buses (they were MCI Classics but I didn't know that back then) on 3rd Avenue.

 

Do you mean New York Bus Service?

[Forest Glen]

Yeah, but the point I was making was that even though I didn't know about the routes, they were quite ubiquitous.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ridership did increase on many express bus lines... Of course now with the recession, ridership has declined a bit on some lines more than others. Some lines like the X1 may have seen little change at all. I have to find the stats checkmate put in another thread...

[checkmatechamp13]

These stats?

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/100125_1031_service2010-nyct.pdf (NYCT buses)

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/100125_1034_service2010-bus.pdf (MTA Bus)

 

http://www.mta.info/news/stories/?story=11 (all service reductions)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

These stats?

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/100125_1031_service2010-nyct.pdf (NYCT buses)

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/100125_1034_service2010-bus.pdf (MTA Bus)

 

http://www.mta.info/news/stories/?story=11 (all service reductions)

 

I'm still confused by how they come up with cost per rider stats though. For example, the X1 has the highest ridership of all of the express buses, but yet it costs more to run X1s than it does X10s???

 

On another note, you'll see that the X19 is quite solid and is growing steadily and is no need of more passengers...

[checkmatechamp13]

There are several factors:

 

1) Ridership on the X1 is much more peaked than ridership on the X10 (the difference between peak/off-peak frequencies is much greater on the X1, especially considering that the X2-X9 are technically all just variants of the X1). It costs a lot of money for drivers to do a split shift.

 

2) Ridership on the X10 is much more concentrated. It gets 2,500 riders by only going to Port Richmond, whereas the X1 has to go through all of the South Shore to get its 6,600 riders.

 

Think of it this way:

One bus needs 20 buses to carry 1,000 passengers

A second bus needs 60 buses to carry 2,000 passengers

 

The second route has more ridership, but the first route is more cost-efficient because it carries more passengers per bus.

 

The difference can either be due to the length (obviously, if you run a longer route and you want to keep the frequencies, you need more buses) or because of increased frequencies.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are several factors:

 

1) Ridership on the X1 is much more peaked than ridership on the X10 (the difference between peak/off-peak frequencies is much greater on the X1, especially considering that the X2-X9 are technically all just variants of the X1). It costs a lot of money for drivers to do a split shift.

 

2) Ridership on the X10 is much more concentrated. It gets 2,500 riders by only going to Port Richmond, whereas the X1 has to go through all of the South Shore to get its 6,600 riders.

 

Think of it this way:

One bus needs 20 buses to carry 1,000 passengers

A second bus needs 60 buses to carry 2,000 passengers

 

The second route has more ridership, but the first route is more cost-efficient because it carries more passengers per bus.

 

The difference can either be due to the length (obviously, if you run a longer route and you want to keep the frequencies, you need more buses) or because of increased frequencies.

 

I would imagine that this is why they're trying to hold off on putting on more

X1s because the route is a long one... I notice that they are trying to only run X1s every 15 minutes, when in reality they should be running them every 10 minutes in some cases, but they're going to have to increase frequencies at some point if too many X1s continue to be SRO during the weekend. I got the 23:00 X1 over by 7th and 56th... The bus was SRO by the time we got by Waverly Pl and Bway. Perhaps if they increased the X10 frequencies and had it make additional stops to link up better with the S53 more people would use it. I do not like getting off over there by Richmond Rd at all. That stop should be moved somewhere with better lighting. That's why I prefer the Slosson Ave stop which is far safer and nicer. It is also much safer getting off the X1 at Hylan which is usually always busy even during late at night and waiting there for the S53.

[checkmatechamp13]

Increasing X10 service would be better for express bus riders as a whole. The reason being that X1 riders can take the S78/S79 over to Narrows Road, where they have the option of the X1 or X10, whereas X10 riders don't have any options. If you live along any portion of the X10 route, you have no way of speeding up your trip-you have to take the X10.

 

I wonder how many people currently go over to Narrows Road to speed their trip up.