Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 25, 2011 First sent to me by a friend, later posted on CBS News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engineerboy6561 Posted January 25, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 25, 2011 Just saw this on the news. The incident was reported and Metro-North is looking into it. Apparently one of the passengers called for a conductor but he never came down to fix it. This looks to me like a matter of a busted door motor; the only reason I can think of that this could have happened is if the conductor cut the door out and it got knocked open while cut out. I'm assuming the conductor was in the other car of the pair and that's why he didn't realize what had happened. Still, I wonder what was going on that he didn't stop to look at this once he was told. Some of the commuters they showed on the news are blaming this on the age of the M2 fleet and arguing that the M8s should have been ordered and put in service years ago. By the way, they refer to the M8s as full of glitches on the news; I disagree. Practically every new car procurement comes with a few kinks that need working out and I'd much rather work them out in testing than have to deal with a mess akin to the Silverliner V situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTNostalgia Posted January 25, 2011 Share #3 Posted January 25, 2011 First sent to me by a friend, later posted on CBS News. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted January 26, 2011 Just saw this on the news. The incident was reported and Metro-North is looking into it. Apparently one of the passengers called for a conductor but he never came down to fix it. This looks to me like a matter of a busted door motor; the only reason I can think of that this could have happened is if the conductor cut the door out and it got knocked open while cut out. I'm assuming the conductor was in the other car of the pair and that's why he didn't realize what had happened. Still, I wonder what was going on that he didn't stop to look at this once he was told.Some of the commuters they showed on the news are blaming this on the age of the M2 fleet and arguing that the M8s should have been ordered and put in service years ago. By the way, they refer to the M8s as full of glitches on the news; I disagree. Practically every new car procurement comes with a few kinks that need working out and I'd much rather work them out in testing than have to deal with a mess akin to the Silverliner V situation. They don't exactly say if it was a M2 or not since the door and car interior of the M2-M6 don't differ a great deal, so it's hard to say if the age of the fleet played any part in it. I do agree that the M8s should have been ordered and put into service years ago, but rushing an order isn't a good idea (see R44s). There is a point to be made that the has a bad habit of retiring trains later than they should be, but that's also why extensive testing is used. It's better to find problems now than later when these things make up 50% of New Haven's fleet. Btw, I am vaguely familiar with the issues surrounding the M8s. I read one subchat post just now, but the reliability of that is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 26, 2011 It's happened on an Amtrak train before, somebody wrote about it in a travelogue. Better to be moving at 60MPH than 125MPH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmorris Posted January 26, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 26, 2011 How is it possible for a train to move with the side door open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #7 Posted January 26, 2011 How is it possible for a train to move with the side door open? For some reason, the indicator at the conductor's panel said all doors closed. Sensor failure, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted January 26, 2011 Share #8 Posted January 26, 2011 I think on the older trains both doors have to be open for the train not move....this was a half door incident. But why didn't the passengers try to close the door earlier.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKorean Posted January 26, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 26, 2011 M7? Looks like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 26, 2011 M7? Looks like it. This is an M2/M4/M6. That's why they need to be replaced as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted January 26, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2011 M7? Looks like it. It is definitely not an M7. The M7 doors are single doors and not double doors like seen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-Trizzy2609 Posted January 26, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 26, 2011 Those are M2s my friend look at the center of car. The M4s and M6s look different in the center. These cars are becoming another Arrow III, (Built by the same company at the same time.) The Arrow IIIs have door problems all the time and sometime theres no door problem but the sensors are not letting them close. Pantograph problems are extremly bad with both of them and there were a shitload of Arrows out of service just as there was M2s out of service this winter. At least the M2 are being replaced, we got 6 more years with these buzzing rattlecans! Makes me wish they were as taking cared of as SEPTA's Silverliner IVs. Those don't have half the problems the Arrows do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexis4Jersey Posted January 26, 2011 Share #13 Posted January 26, 2011 Those are M2s my friend look at the center of car. The M4s and M6s look different in the center. These cars are becoming another Arrow III, (Built by the same company at the same time.) The Arrow IIIs have door problems all the time and sometime theres no door problem but the sensors are not letting them close. Pantograph problems are extremly bad with both of them and there were a shitload of Arrows out of service just as there was M2s out of service this winter. At least the M2 are being replaced, we got 6 more years with these buzzing rattlecans! Makes me wish they were as taking cared of as SEPTA's Silverliner IVs. Those don't have half the problems the Arrows do. Yup on friday during the snowstorm , none of the center doors would open...:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted January 26, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 26, 2011 Sweet video! I enjoyed the views and sounds. :cool: If that guy decided to stick his hand out and losses it, I'm pretty sure he can sue right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted January 26, 2011 Those are M2s my friend look at the center of car. The M4s and M6s look different in the center. These cars are becoming another Arrow III, (Built by the same company at the same time.) The Arrow IIIs have door problems all the time and sometime theres no door problem but the sensors are not letting them close. Pantograph problems are extremly bad with both of them and there were a shitload of Arrows out of service just as there was M2s out of service this winter. At least the M2 are being replaced, we got 6 more years with these buzzing rattlecans! Makes me wish they were as taking cared of as SEPTA's Silverliner IVs. Those don't have half the problems the Arrows do. I notice Budd equipment tend to have problems during extremes in weather (R32s and their HVACs, and the M2s never been cold weather friendly IMO). The Arrows always had one problem or another with them. They needed to go six years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKorean Posted January 26, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 26, 2011 It is definitely not an M7. The M7 doors are single doors and not double doors like seen here. Oh yea, forgot. havent been on LIRR for so long, lol. Embarassed. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted January 26, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2011 This was an M2. Don't tell me how i know this, because i don't understand it myself. The problem is not the age, the problem is locked out doors that get pushed open will not trigger an automatic train stop. I've been near open doors at speed before, they were broken (dead door motor) and locked out. They were only open about 10 inches or so (2 part door), but yea, not limited to new equipment! - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanatic Posted January 26, 2011 Share #18 Posted January 26, 2011 Will pushing open doors on NYCTA equipment trigger an automatic stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBall Posted January 26, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 26, 2011 There is no automatic stop when you lose a door light, however the train cannot take power. The doors are meant to have a little give in them so that if someone got a coat-tail stuck in the door or something, you can push on it enough so that they could get loose. Some have more give than others. Some you can open maybe a good 6-8 inches. If working as intended even just one leaf open will not give a door light. This is a sensor failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted January 26, 2011 Share #20 Posted January 26, 2011 Metro-North is usually diligent when it comes to maintenance. I'm totally surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metsfan Posted January 26, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 26, 2011 There has to be a sensor problem for a door to have problems to begin with in a lot of cases. I've been on trains where the doors worked fine and the sensor didn't report them as closed, so they had to key them out, and then i've been on a train where one side of the center door was 8-10 inches open, but you could freely close it and open it to the 8-10 inches. I think acceleration can also slide a dead door open, but i closed that one and stood next to it till a crew member came by. - A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share #22 Posted January 26, 2011 Metro-North is usually diligent when it comes to maintenance. I'm totally surprised. They are, but they're not immune to freak occurrences. Besides, the M2s are at that age where they need to go (the oldest is turning 40 next year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N-Trizzy2609 Posted January 28, 2011 Share #23 Posted January 28, 2011 I notice Budd equipment tend to have problems during extremes in weather (R32s and their HVACs, and the M2s never been cold weather friendly IMO). The Arrows always had one problem or another with them. They needed to go six years ago! Budd didn't touch one M2. It was built by GE and Vickers who also built the SEPTA Silverliner IVs, and Arrow III units in the same plant. The M2 and Arrow aren't cold friendly but the bastard, The Silverliner IV is doing well this winter. Only 16 went outta service this winter. Budd units are prone to problems tho. Budd was a swing or miss company. Look at how many RDCs are still in service since 1950 without a kink and then look at the SPV who only lasted 10 years as self-propelled cars. This was an M2. Don't tell me how i know this, because i don't understand it myself. The problem is not the age, the problem is locked out doors that get pushed open will not trigger an automatic train stop. I've been near open doors at speed before, they were broken (dead door motor) and locked out. They were only open about 10 inches or so (2 part door), but yea, not limited to new equipment! - A Comet Vs, Arrow IIIs, a few of SEPTA push-pull cars, and the M1s were notorious for their doors going off the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutgers Tube Posted January 28, 2011 Share #24 Posted January 28, 2011 There is no automatic stop when you lose a door light, however the train cannot take power. The doors are meant to have a little give in them so that if someone got a coat-tail stuck in the door or something, you can push on it enough so that they could get loose. Some have more give than others. Some you can open maybe a good 6-8 inches. If working as intended even just one leaf open will not give a door light. This is a sensor failure. From what I understand, snow also tends to accumulate in the pockets and short out the microswitches. Is that true? Do you run into a lot of problems with door lights on the Bombs? I always see snow accumulating in between cars, and it's cold as sin in there. By the way, hat's off to the Metro-North train crews, mechanics, M.O.W. workers, customer service reps, dispatchers, yardmasters and all the operations employees at RTC. We're enduring one of the worst winters in recent memory, and you men and women are doing an incredible job of keeping safe, reliable and remarkably timely service despite having to cope with failing equipment, treacherous conditions and a demanding customer base. I've been really happy to have regularly commuted with you for the past several years, and at no time have I been more satisfied. I really appreciate your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopsicleXGirl Posted January 28, 2011 Share #25 Posted January 28, 2011 Will pushing open doors on NYCTA equipment trigger an automatic stop? no. if someone manages to push a door panel open while a train is moving, the conductor will lose indication in that zone. the train doesn't automatically stop, the conductor instructs the train operator to stop. as someone stated, acceleration, or in this case rapid deceleration, can cause the door panel to swing open if it has a dead motor. the train needs to come to a smooth stop for passenger safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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