Do you feel the Bergen Beach B41 is underserved?

[BJC]

of course.

 

I prefer the B2 over the B3 also.... if I can catch the thing.

 

I rather take the B 2 over the B 3 since it's empty and it's quieter.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Your forgetting that a majority of riders who go to Bergen beach come off the 2 or 5 trains at the junction. I don't think they would want to have to get off the train, get on the 41, get off and wait for a b9 at kings hwy or at ave p. I been working the 41 for the last few picks and i can have an empty bus when i get to the junction and leave there with a standing load going to Bergen beach. That branch is not under served at all, it basically gets almost the same amount of service as kings plaza during the week, and on weekends there is not much demand from people to go to/from Bergen beach so you get 20-30 min head ways.

 

I would think most folks would prefer the BM1... I'll take a BM1 if a BM3 isn't coming or I think I've missed it and it seems to get good ridership.

[knice1187]

I would think most folks would prefer the BM1... I'll take a BM1 if a BM3 isn't coming or I think I've missed it and it seems to get good ridership.

 

I see some people out there that does that but remember a majority of people get of before ralph ave. On each trip I would say only a hand full of people go past ralph.

[Shortline Bus]

I see some people out there that does that but remember a majority of people get of before ralph ave. On each trip I would say only a hand full of people go past ralph.

 

I know this might be controversial but it could be argued that overnights between 1-5am that the (B41) Bergen Beach branch should not even have service.

 

 

Thus that the 30-minute 'owl' headways should only run between Kings Plaza and Downtown Brooklyn. What you guys think?

[NX Express]

Would it help in any way if the B41 Bergen Beach was replaced with a B50, running from Bergen Beach, via Av N to Utica, to Av H, to the Junction and terminating there?

[Shortline Bus]

Would it help in any way if the B41 Bergen Beach was replaced with a B50, running from Bergen Beach, via Av N to Utica, to Av H, to the Junction and terminating there?

 

 

I have not riden on the B41 Bergen Beach in about 3-4 years but i say this.

Your idea NX should only be considered maybe for weekends/overnights.

Driving in that area on Saturday/Sunday Nights a few times, after 10pm,

those (B41) Bergen Beach buses often have *zero* riders.

 

From my expereince quiet a few riders ride it from Ave N/Veterans and to Downtown Brooklyn during the day weekdays. At least weekdays it does need to run the full route between Tillary and Bergen Beach.

 

Maybe someone like B35, Brooklyn Bus and others who still live in the boro can comment on it better if overnight/weekend service on the (B41) Bergen Bch. branch should be cut only to the Flatbush/Nostrand station.

[DOB2RTO]

I do. I always wait a minimum 15 minutes, it's NEVER on schedule.

 

I waited for a B41 Bergen Beach bus, and waited 45 minutes for a bus scheduled to come in 7 minutes. It had nothing to do with traffic, as I could see the bus at the end of the line, just sitting there, and idling at times. I was heated. On Sundays it is the worst. My wife worked in that area, and would just take the B47 to the B6, or the B47 to the Kings Plaza B41, cause the B41 Bergen Beach ran every 45minutes to every hour on Sundays. It is under served..........

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I waited for a B41 Bergen Beach bus, and waited 45 minutes for a bus scheduled to come in 7 minutes. It had nothing to do with traffic, as I could see the bus at the end of the line, just sitting there, and idling at times. I was heated. On Sundays it is the worst. My wife worked in that area, and would just take the B47 to the B6, or the B47 to the Kings Plaza B41, cause the B41 Bergen Beach ran every 45minutes to every hour on Sundays. It is under served..........

 

My question is does the B41 Bergen Beach branch fall under "network coverage" or could it be that the MTA is trying to kill that part of the branch on weekends? I don't think they can do it weekdays since others have mentioned that it gets good usage. When I lived back in Brooklyn I noticed that the Bergen Beach branch didn't get that much service on the weekends then either and apparently not much has changed.

[checkmatechamp13]

I think it does.

 

Network coverage is defined as having routes spaces roughly 1/4 to 1/2 mile apart.

[Joel Up Front]

I agree. I think we get much better value on the express bus. The fare is $5.50 vs. $7+, and we're allowed to get free transfers to other routes (I remember I once took the X17J to Manhattan and then transferred to the BxM3 all the way to Yonkers for $5.50)

 

 

 

I thought the N6 ran more frequently. In any case, it does have a limited, which is additional service for a lot of customers.

 

But SI is better than LI in that regard. Most routes have 15 minute headways all day (on weekdays).

 

There is only ONE instance of LIB having good headways. Two N16s (one short run to Hempstead only, the other to Silver Lake) leave RFM at 2:15 and 2:20 PM, respectively. I remember the 2:20 PM N16 always had the same operator(s), and the 2:15 PM's operator would always pack buses well beyond capacity, and not leave unless the B/O believed it was full. That one day she held it for 10 friggin' minutes at Nassau's DSS because there was room for two people in the back and the supervisor told everyone to pack it in, I started waiting for the 2:27. That was more reliable and never reached SRO.

[Amtrak7]

I think it does.

 

Network coverage is defined as having routes spaces roughly 1/4 to 1/2 mile apart.

 

I don't think so. 1/2 mile max walk to transit, so that means routes spaced roughly a mile apart. LIB is horrendous with network coverage, the northeastern section of the county is basically unserved.

['89 Liberty MCI]

That thing with the N16 sounds like it happened because there was a bus missing on a regular basis.

 

I have a feeling that the B41 scheduled to show up in 7 minutes didn't come for 45 because the operator took a personal.

 

I find that what goes on is rather stupid with the Bergen Beach branch being so underserved, as I must deal with the same garbage on the Bx10 with its 15 and 20 minute headways in the mid-day and on weekends. Anytime I gotta deal with lines like these it burns me up. Bergen Beach looks like a nice area to live in yet public transportation is pure evil during off-hours. Exactly the same thing in Riverdale. Great quality of life, but extremely evil public transportation. Even during rush hours.

 

They did something more often in the old days than they do now, which was have so many buses out there that you could leave the first stop and see your first and second leaders just a few blocks in front of you, sometimes even more buses on the road than that. Some routes still do that but not as many as before. On my 1976 Brooklyn bus map they have the frequencies listed on the back and (for the time it was published) it says that the B41s ran 2 minutes apart AM rush and PM rush, 4 minutes apart mid-day, "Alternate buses serve each branch." Leaving us with 4 minutes/8 minutes to each branch, AM-PM/mid-day. Even the weekends were better than now, I think they were 7-8 minutes apart between Downtown and Flatbush/P, so every 15 minutes at the worst you could get a bus to Bergen Beach on weekends. No limited stop service since that didn't come until 1985, but they still could have kept those headways, LTD or no LTD.

 

Now I think the 'problem' with this was that Transit got scared of having too many empty buses on the road or some nonsense involving funding/politics, so they cut. And cut. And cut. And cut. What they could do instead, although it may be seen as risqué, is restore service to the level they once had (or significantly more service period) and when more people see that there are more buses out there they'll leave the car at the house and take the bus. Because they know they don't even have to look at the damn schedule, the bus is right down the block. Hell, that's a good way to make more jobs. On paper that's how it was years ago. I don't know how empty buses there were or how much "waste" was being generated but every company these days has this apparent obsession with cutting corners obstinately (not just Transit). That's why they see the whole idea as risqué and they're scared to make more service. On the other hand the fact that it's hard to get people out of cars makes it even more risqué. There are no real incentives aside from global warming, but who pays attention to that. And of course even if more people start to pay attention Transit will continue to mess around, doing absolutely nothing for months and leaving you in the cold if you don't fit on the bus. So who cares about global warming if the authority cannot be trusted.

 

What would be nice is if they could get it to a point where more people use public transportation but everybody gets a seat. Or at least it's easier to get a seat. Now you actually have comfort instead of standing up forever.

 

After my long digression. Nobody rides the Bergen Beach side of the B41 during off-hours and nobody rides the Bx10 and similar lines during off-hours because in those areas most people have cars (therefore they have a choice) and got tired of dealing with the authority's nonsense. So the authority cut. And cut. And cut. And cut. Now when they cut more people get impatient with their nonsense and those who have a choice stop riding. Now they cut even more after they see this. It's a vicious cycle. Brilliant. Although I have seen higher ridership on a couple lines where they could add more service but it is almost always a cold day in hell before they add service to ANY line that doesn't have M15/B41 (Kings Plaza)/B44/B46 headways. Brilliant!

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't think so. 1/2 mile max walk to transit, so that means routes spaced roughly a mile apart. LIB is horrendous with network coverage, the northeastern section of the county is basically unserved.

 

That's what I meant. A person shouldn't have to walk more than 1/4 to 1/2 mile to reach the transit line (so the routes should be spaced 1/2 mile to 1 mile apart)

 

I'm sure these guidelines only apply in the 5 boroughs. Like you said, there are whole sections of Nassau with no bus service at all. There were a few routes like the N94 that were cut that were literally the only transit service for a couple of miles.

[Joel Up Front]

I know that most of the north-south routes are the busiest routes in the system... bus service is all over the place here. It seems like the farther you are away from any LIRR branch, the worse your service is. I know VS station is a Far Rockaway branch station, but I have a faster, one-seat ride to Penn Station if I take the N25 to Lynbrook, and at the same cost because Lynbrook is right next to VS and in the same zone.

 

On the other hand, people north of me living in between the Babylon branch and the Main Line don't have much in terms of public transport. If they do, the headways are probably awful and they drive anyway...

[Grand Concourse]

But if it is so unreliable, how about sending the B9 over there and sending those B41s over to Kings Plaza. I don't think the B9 gets caught in a whole lot of traffic.

 

I've always been a bit partial about the B9 replacing the B41 to Bergen Beach. There are always a few ppl every now and then that still gets on the wrong B41 [when they wanted KP]. They may as well have all B41s go to KP and B9 split with most going to Bergen Beach and the rest to KP.

 

Plus [north bound on Av N] I've seen some kids get off at Troy av to hop on the B9. So who's to say a B9 direct to Bergen Beach isn't that bad an idea?

 

But this is just me.

=

As for the B41 via Av N, not many people on it. Sure in the rush hours they can get packed, but other times like middays [before the madhouse of school kids piles in] it's nearly empty. You could run a B41 every 30min and the bus will still have room. The Bergen branch is just to split up the B41 as KP probably can't handle all the buses going there.

 

If anything they should probably have the Bergen route as a new line altogether [b40?] and serve up to Nostrand Av and turn back since traffic only gets worse north of Nostrand.

[Shortline Bus]

I've always been a bit partial about the B9 replacing the B41 to Bergen Beach. There are always a few ppl every now and then that still gets on the wrong B41 [when they wanted KP]. They may as well have all B41s go to KP and B9 split with most going to Bergen Beach and the rest to KP.

 

Plus [north bound on Av N] I've seen some kids get off at Troy av to hop on the B9. So who's to say a B9 direct to Bergen Beach isn't that bad an idea?

 

But this is just me.

=

As for the B41 via Av N, not many people on it. Sure in the rush hours they can get packed, but other times like middays [before the madhouse of school kids piles in] it's nearly empty. You could run a B41 every 30min and the bus will still have room. The Bergen branch is just to split up the B41 as KP probably can't handle all the buses going there.

 

If anything they should probably have the Bergen route as a new line altogether [b40?] and serve up to Nostrand Av and turn back since traffic only gets worse north of Nostrand.

 

 

I am not endorsing it but I do think it should be looked at. On Late evenings/weekends running between Nostrand/Flatbush and East 71st/Veterans Ave. Weekdays until at least 10pm, the (B41)Bergen Bch or w/e it's called should run the full route between Downtown

Brooklyn and East 71st.

[B35 via Church]

Would it help in any way if the B41 Bergen Beach was replaced with a B50, running from Bergen Beach, via Av N to Utica, to Av H, to the Junction and terminating there?

not by much...

 

most the riders would take it b/w the junction & utica... which would be 100% redundant to the B6...

if you take a look at ppl. that disembark the B6, you'll find that they're looking for NB B46's, not SB...

 

 

I've always been a bit partial about the B9 replacing the B41 to Bergen Beach. There are always a few ppl every now and then that still gets on the wrong B41 [when they wanted KP]. They may as well have all B41s go to KP and B9 split with most going to Bergen Beach and the rest to KP.

 

Plus [north bound on Av N] I've seen some kids get off at Troy av to hop on the B9. So who's to say a B9 direct to Bergen Beach isn't that bad an idea?

 

But this is just me.

=

 

As for the B41 via Av N, not many people on it. Sure in the rush hours they can get packed, but other times like middays [before the madhouse of school kids piles in] it's nearly empty. You could run a B41 every 30min and the bus will still have room. The Bergen branch is just to split up the B41 as KP probably can't handle all the buses going there.

 

If anything they should probably have the Bergen route as a new line altogether [b40?] and serve up to Nostrand Av and turn back since traffic only gets worse north of Nostrand.

 

People's inattentiveness (and ignorance) in getting on the wrong bus, isn't exactly a reason that B41's should all run to KP.... & splitting the B9 doesn't help w/e bergen beach riders that do exist, that take B41's...

I mean, I don't know why you even brought that up, or what other underlying point you were tryin to make w/ that....

 

speaking of which.... splitting the B9? what?

The B9 gets the crowds that it does along Flatbush (including @ KP) b/c the route isn't all that frequent... you give B9's, B41 like service, and there'll be a s**tload of empty buses panning b/w KP & Xaverian..... Guaranteed.

 

 

but of course, you'll probably come w/ that "I'm not here to change anyone's opinion" rhetoric.....

[Grand Concourse]

The B6 is a 3rd leg transfer [ex: taking the B46 to B6 to B41]. Maybe if the B9 was an east-west only line then it won't cost people another fare to transfer to the B41. Why should taking the 2/5 be the only option? Why not the Q or F? Speaking for just myself, I think having a different option would be a nice thing. As long as the transfer doesn't cost me another fare, I don't mind dealing with another bus.

 

Yes B41 is frequent, but it bunches too much and has large gaps at times and to me it's not very reliable.

 

My point about if the B41/B9 were to switch terminals would be the B9 using the same amount of buses it uses, but since Bergen doesn't need as many buses, they could send down the rest to KP. No need to add more B9s.

 

""I'm not here to change anyone's opinion" rhetoric"

Okay... I have no idea where you got that idea from. I'm just making a selfish opinion about how things would benifit me more, yesh...

[B35 via Church]

The B6 is a 3rd leg transfer [ex: taking the B46 to B6 to B41]. Maybe if the B9 was an east-west only line then it won't cost people another fare to transfer to the B41. Why should taking the 2/5 be the only option? Why not the Q or F? Speaking for just myself, I think having a different option would be a nice thing. As long as the transfer doesn't cost me another fare, I don't mind dealing with another bus.

 

Yes B41 is frequent, but it bunches too much and has large gaps at times and to me it's not very reliable.

 

My point about if the B41/B9 were to switch terminals would be the B9 using the same amount of buses it uses, but since Bergen doesn't need as many buses, they could send down the rest to KP. No need to add more B9s.

 

""I'm not here to change anyone's opinion" rhetoric"

Okay... I have no idea where you got that idea from. I'm just making a selfish opinion about how things would benifit me more, yesh...

 

Oh nah... it aint about you making a selfish opinion...

I brought that little snippet up, b/c I notice whenever someone makes a point that differs from yours (especially in a back & forth exchange) you do blurt out, how you're not here to change anyone's opinion, etc. etc.... at that point, it's like, why even engage in any type of dialogue....

 

but that aside...

---

 

Why should taking the 2/5 be the only option? Why not the Q or F?

the only option? for who, bergen beach residents....

 

you are aware that the B3 ends at the same area (triangle) as B41's do in Bergen Beach....

you are aware that the B3 takes you to the Q & the F train.....

 

...and don't think for a second that ppl. out there don't walk, or have someone drive them to that stop on mill/av U for the 100... which of course, takes you to the Q...

---

 

anyway, There isn't a need to add more B9's..... I agree.

 

In saying that, if the B9/41 terminals were to be swapped, with current B9 service, you'd be conceding to the point that such a move would screw those riders coming from/going to KP.... just so happens that service on that route isn't frequent enough to have some buses go to Bergen Beach, and some buses head out to KP, while maintaining similar usage levels...

 

long story short....

keep the B41 as the route that branches out to Bergen Beach.... makes things less complicated.

[Shortline Bus]

I am not endorsing it but I do think it should be looked at. On Late evenings/weekends running between Nostrand/Flatbush and East 71st/Veterans Ave. Weekdays until at least 10pm, the (B41)Bergen Bch or w/e it's called should run the full route between Downtown

Brooklyn and East 71st.

 

B35, Checkmate or anyone else? How about this reply to idea above?

[Grand Concourse]

@B35, fine. I never said they should switch terminals, I only thought maybe they should. But I have no say in things so it doesn't matter as the MTA isn't going to do anything.

 

But to sum it up, yes leave the lines alone. I still would prefer they added a suffix to designate one branch of the B41 from the other to make it clear which bus was what.

[B35 via Church]

I am not endorsing it but I do think it should be looked at. On Late evenings/weekends running between Nostrand/Flatbush and East 71st/Veterans Ave. Weekdays until at least 10pm, the (B41)Bergen Bch or w/e it's called should run the full route between Downtown Brooklyn and East 71st.

B35, Checkmate or anyone else? How about this reply to idea above?

 

You would have to ask someone who feels that the Bergen Beach branch is underserved...

 

That said, lemme now take the opportunity to answer the question in the thread title...

I don't think that branch is underserved... it aint all that consistent, but it isn't underserved IMO....

[aemoreira81]

IMO, the branch isn't underserved per se...however, the routing of the B41 should be looked at through Bergen Beach, perhaps by sending the B41 east of Ralph Avenue on Avenue N instead of Veterans Avenue.

 

A routing would look like this: Eastbound past Ralph Avenue: Slight left at East 64 Street onto Avenue N, a right at East 71 Street, and send it down East 71 Street to Avenue Y, where the B41 would end.

 

To keep it cost neutral, B41 local trips from Bergen Beach would end at Empire Boulevard to keep the current headways, and would be redesignated the B40.

 

Also, the MTA needs to examine ridership trends to see how many people ride from Downtown Brooklyn to Bergen Beach on B41 trips, local and Limited. On the surface, it appears to be a feeder into the and trains.

[Shortline Bus]

IMO, the branch isn't underserved per se...however, the routing of the B41 should be looked at through Bergen Beach, perhaps by sending the B41 east of Ralph Avenue on Avenue N instead of Veterans Avenue.

 

A routing would look like this: Eastbound past Ralph Avenue: Slight left at East 64 Street onto Avenue N, a right at East 71 Street, and send it down East 71 Street to Avenue Y, where the B41 would end.

 

To keep it cost neutral, B41 local trips from Bergen Beach would end at Empire Boulevard to keep the current headways, and would be redesignated the B40.

 

Also, the MTA needs to examine ridership trends to see how many people ride from Downtown Brooklyn to Bergen Beach on B41 trips, local and Limited. On the surface, it appears to be a feeder into the and trains.

 

Again not endorsing it but if further cuts are needed in a possible "Doomsday II" service cuts, the should look on whether any Bergen Beach B41 buses should go to/from Downtown Brooklyn off peak i.e after 10pm weekdays and all times weekends?:confused:

 

There enough service to continue running the (B41) Veterans Ave branch to Downtown Brooklyn IMO.

[brokecrazy]

B11 instead of B41 to Ave. N?