MTA eyes sliding doors on subway platforms to prevent falls onto tracks, litter thrown onto rails

[Roadcruiser1]

Revisiting the reaction to the glass doors

By Benjamin Kabak

When the Daily News got wind of the MTA’s Request for Information concerning the possibility of installing glass doors on subway platforms, it seemed like a harmless news story. The authority wasn’t planning on committing resources to the project any time soon, and the RFI, generally the first stage in a long procurement process, made it clear that the MTA wanted any potential contractor to install the doors at as little cost as possible to the authority. The reaction though has been stupefyingly loud.

 

The first person to sound off on the idea was State Senator Diane Savino, and she was unamused. Noting that only .00005 percent of subway riders wind up on the tracks, she criticized the MTA for even thinking about it. Transportation Nation excerpted her statement:

 

“Much to my surprise the MTA found the notion intriguing. To even contemplate this nonsense is self-evidently a waste of time, effort, energy and yes – money; money the MTA does not have. The cost to install the barriers would be astronomical. The cost to maintain the doors in good operating condition would be even higher,” Savino said.

 

“Last year eight express bus and eight local bus routes where eliminated or reduced from my district along with the M train downtown extension into Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights, restoration of those routes should be the first discussion instead of spending additional monies on some harebrained notion like this,”

 

How dare the MTA try to solicit ideas for better service! It’s as though Savino isn’t trying. She clearly didn’t read the Request for Information because had she done so, she would have seen the authority’s intent to spend few dollars on this program.

 

Savino also doesn’t seem to understand the difference between the MTA’s operating budget and capital budget. The two are funded separately, and money from one cannot be easily shifted from the other. Still, she harps on last year’s operating cuts. “Life is precious and track fires are dangerous,” she said, “but the risks of both are far too minuscule to justify all the expense and effort — especially when most South Brooklynites and Islanders have had their modes of commuting eliminated under auspices of fiscal restraint.”

 

Of course, what Savino fails to mention is her own role in the cuts. She is leading a splinter group of Senate Democrats who support repealing the payroll tax, and she has consistently voted against congestion pricing measures. She did vote for the measure that robbed $143 million of allegedly dedicated funds from the MTA before saying that she never bothered to read the bill. She has also supported an unnecessary and costly no-layoffs bill. In other words, if the easy political points are there for the grabbing, she’s happy to take them.

 

But Savino isn’t the only one sounding off. The Daily News’ own editorial page yesterday featured two columns on it, and neither of them were written to sound as though the authors had read the paper’s own news coverage. First, we have an unsigned editorial calling the MTA “crazy” for even considering an “overblown plan” to build doors on the platform. I wonder how many times the Daily News has called someone crazy for asking for information or conducting a due diligence examination.

 

The editorial, clearly written at the urging of Savino, hits upon the same points she used in her letter to MTA Chair and CEO Jay Walder and even used most of the same language:

 

Some brainiacs have come up with the idea of erecting barriers along the edges of subway platforms to keep people from falling over. Said barriers would be equipped with sliding portals that would open and close in unison with subway doors,

 

Stop laughing. We’re not kidding. No, sir. We know this is no joke because the Metropolitan Transportation Authority found the notion intriguing enough to ask other brainiacs to submit even better proposals for adding a touch of Disney World to New York’s underground lair.

 

Merely to contemplate this nonsense is self-evidently a waste of time and money. The cost to install the barriers would be astronomical. The cost to maintain the doors in good operating condition would be even higher.

 

The Daily News editorial staff, experts in construction and maintenance costs of underground technological projects has deemed just thinking about it a “self-evident” waste of time and money. If they’re just going to serve as Diane Savino’s uncritical lapdogs, maybe we should appoint them to the MTA Board to see how they run things.

 

Finally, Joanna Molloy, who has an opinion about everything but seems to know little, sounds off on the project. While noting that CEMUSA paid $1.4 billion to install thousands of bus shelters throughout the city, she scoffs at the idea that the MTA could get the doors built for little or no cost seemingly without offering a reason why. But her crowning moment comes in the condemnation of the plan itself. She doesn’t want it because it’s not gritty enough for her. The logic is dumbfounding.

 

Sure, you can argue that the sleek, modern doors, which have worked so beautifully along the AirTrain, will save a few dozen lives – and spare the city from some pricey lawsuits. But we’re New Yorkers – we’re tough, and we like grunge and noise. It may be fine for San Francisco, where BART travelers politely form perpendicular lines at the exact spot at which they know the train door will stop. It’s just not us.

 

New Yorkers have true grit, and nothing gives grittier grit than the subway. We like to brag about the horrors we’ve seen down there. I once saw a 14-inch-long rat munch the last dregs of a hot dog on the tracks of Union Square station. Top that.

 

Got that? We don’t want clean subway systems that aren’t sweltering saunas in the subway because we’re New Yorkers and we like living and commuting in our own filth. Let’s not try to improve the system or enjoy pleasant commutes because then we wouldn’t be tough. We, like Jeff Bridges in the Coen Brothers’ latest, have true grit. On what planet does Joanna Molloy live anyway?

 

Now, I don’t know what the future will hold for the MTA’s idea to install doors on some or all of its platforms. In an early incarnation, the new Second Ave. Subway stops were to have these doors, but the authority won’t release SAS station specs for a little while yet. Maybe the MTA can find a contractor like CEMUSA willing to build the doors in exchange for the ad space, and maybe not. Maybe the Request for Information will lead to some results, and maybe the MTA will find that it’s not a feasible project for the New York City subway system.

 

No matter the outcome, the discourse around it is terrible. The MTA gets ridiculed for engaging in a no-cost effort to find out how to improve the system from politicians who clearly aren’t attuned to the mechanisms that fund the agency and from newspaper editorials that can’t see beyond the current filthy state of our system. This reaction creates a loop in which the MTA gains no public support or trust even as it’s trying to move the system forward, and now, we know why politicians get away with taking dedicated funds out of the MTA’s coffers.

 

Ultimately, this whole vicious cycle is why we don’t have nice things underground. A no-cost request for basic information to improve conditions underground just should not be met with such ignorant vehemence until dollar figures are attached to a specific proposal. Until the coverage improves and politicians understand what’s happening in transit globally and with the MTA locally, the loop will just keep circling back on itself forever.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/02/04/revisiting-the-reaction-to-the-glass-doors/#comments

[SubwayGuy]

Amazing, that article took me 5 minutes to read and nowhere in it does it say that idiot people should not go down into the tracks, mostly to get these stupid tech gadgets.

 

Without people taking responsibility for themselves you have nothing.

 

That's the #1 reason this is a waste of money. Why spend money saving people from themselves, when it's their own damn job - NOT the taxpayers'!!!

[chrisliz09]

Amazing, that article took me 5 minutes to read and nowhere in it does it say that idiot people should not go down into the tracks, mostly to get these stupid tech gadgets.

 

Without people taking responsibility for themselves you have nothing.

 

That's the #1 reason this is a waste of money. Why spend money saving people from themselves, when it's their own damn job - NOT the taxpayers'!!!

if thats true that tax payers shoudnt pay for other people, lol you are joking rite everything goes into paying for other people that do stupid things like go onto the tracks, jay walking, drunk driving, drugs use i can keep on going this is a good start in saving money if it wasnt for things like this 50 years ago or more we wouldnt have any safety in the subways at all no cops no cams no customer emergency boxes come on people this may help millions over the years to come not just too you guys now look too the future, oh wait i guess thats out the window rite. its so sad that other countries and states are just passing us by leaving us in the dust, this is so sad when will we invest in the transit other places are doing that and look how they look way better than that and they have the respect for there system, this is why we look like this even with all the rebuilding of this system no one care too put in just want out. just look at that picture and ask yourself how did they do that?

[IRT Bronx Express]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you really need to use commas and periods to separate your sentences. It's very hard for me and others to understand what you're trying to post.

[SubwayGuy]

if thats true that tax payers shoudnt pay for other people, lol you are joking rite everything goes into paying for other people that do stupid things like go onto the tracks, jay walking, drunk driving, drugs use i can keep on going this is a good start in saving money if it wasnt for things like this 50 years ago or more we wouldnt have any safety in the subways at all no cops no cams no customer emergency boxes come on people this may help millions over the years to come not just too you guys now look too the future, oh wait i guess thats out the window rite. its so sad that other countries and states are just passing us by leaving us in the dust, this is so sad when will we invest in the transit other places are doing that and look how they look way better than that and they have the respect for there system, this is why we look like this even with all the rebuilding of this system no one care too put in just want out. just look at that picture and ask yourself how did they do that?

 

What the hell are you babbling on about? If you think other countries are so much better then go move there but stop ragging on America because those countries are not better off for babying their people and pandering to the One World PTA.

 

We invest in transit by properly funding our operations, not failing to properly funding them while building fancy newfangled toys whose repair and staffing are not funded, and failing to encourage people to take responsibility for their own safety.

 

50 years ago things were much more different. A new line would open, and all the important people would crawl down into the tracks in front of the inaugural train along the route, often with live third rails, and step carefully into a pose in front of the train so that the media could take pictures. Sometimes the media was encouraged to go down there to take the pictures too.

 

Nowadays you wouldn't see something so "dangerous" but are we really that better off? Seems no one even has an idea how dangerous it is. And rather than INFORM and EDUCATE the public some people it seems would rather be lazy and build expensive doors that will do nothing except encourage people to find another STUPID, CREATIVE way to kill themselves.

 

"Jack ass" nation indeed. But at least that show was funded privately, and not with taxpayer dollars.

[Trainmaster5]

Maybe we can shut down whole segments of the subway system and retrofit these new safety enhancements. Maybe the can start printing money for these projects while we're at it also. Oh, I forgot, why don't we upgrade to Washington, DC, Toronto, BART, or Tokyo's standards so we won't fall behind the rest of the world. That appears to be what some posters are saying. If that's what you're asking for I say let's raise the fare to $5 or $7 base with no discounts to pay for it. I ride for free so it means squat to me. Since the federal government and the states are basically broke where, I ask, is the money coming from to pay for these improvements ? More taxes ? Congestion pricing? Zoned fares? Borrow it from China or the Saudis? Oh, that's right, borrowing is what got this generation and government into trouble in the first place. Some other city gets a new system or railcars so let's go into hock so we won't fall behind. How about maintaining what you have first before you get seduced by something you can't afford and have no real need for? If some a..hole gets killed while on the tracks I hardly see why the rest of the population has to pay to protect the stupid. Does anyone really believe that the screens will stop litter on the tracks? It'll just be dumped between cars in the tunnels. It certainly won't stop the suicidal types because they can jump from trains while between stations, so that line of reasoning is idiotic on it's face. How about showing some common sense and responsibility for our own actions instead? It's a whole lot cheaper and smarter. Put litter into litter baskets and dump it on your way out of the system. No screen needed. Keep your electronic devices in your pocket and it normally won't end up on the tracks. No screen needed. Heed your surroundings at ALL times. No screen needed. And for those of you so enamored of the other shiny new systems around the world I suggest you either dig deeper into your pockets every time you ride the NYC system OR dig VERY DEEP and buy a one way ticket elsewhere. The choice is yours. BTW we used to call that mentality " keeping up with the Joneses" and there never was a winner in that game.

[chrisliz09]

What the hell are you babbling on about? If you think other countries are so much better then go move there but stop ragging on America because those countries are not better off for babying their people and pandering to the One World PTA.

 

We invest in transit by properly funding our operations, not failing to properly funding them while building fancy newfangled toys whose repair and staffing are not funded, and failing to encourage people to take responsibility for their own safety.

 

50 years ago things were much more different. A new line would open, and all the important people would crawl down into the tracks in front of the inaugural train along the route, often with live third rails, and step carefully into a pose in front of the train so that the media could take pictures. Sometimes the media was encouraged to go down there to take the pictures too.

 

Nowadays you wouldn't see something so "dangerous" but are we really that better off? Seems no one even has an idea how dangerous it is. And rather than INFORM and EDUCATE the public some people it seems would rather be lazy and build expensive doors that will do nothing except encourage people to find another STUPID, CREATIVE way to kill themselves.

 

"Jack ass" nation indeed. But at least that show was funded privately, and not with taxpayer dollars.

if that's how you people feel than so be it I'm not going to argue with you the point is we have too take risks if we don't we will never move forward in the world, we have alot but its not enough and yes I've been around the world and seen many different things and yea I like what I see why shouldn't I? Look they going too do what they have too if we like it or not so its what ever too me I just hope it helps that's all .

[Grand Concourse]

Maybe we can shut down whole segments of the subway system and retrofit these new safety enhancements. Maybe the can start printing money for these projects while we're at it also. Oh, I forgot, why don't we upgrade to Washington, DC, Toronto, BART, or Tokyo's standards so we won't fall behind the rest of the world. That appears to be what some posters are saying. If that's what you're asking for I say let's raise the fare to $5 or $7 base with no discounts to pay for it. I ride for free so it means squat to me. Since the federal government and the states are basically broke where, I ask, is the money coming from to pay for these improvements ? More taxes ? Congestion pricing? Zoned fares? Borrow it from China or the Saudis? Oh, that's right, borrowing is what got this generation and government into trouble in the first place. Some other city gets a new system or railcars so let's go into hock so we won't fall behind. How about maintaining what you have first before you get seduced by something you can't afford and have no real need for? If some a..hole gets killed while on the tracks I hardly see why the rest of the population has to pay to protect the stupid. Does anyone really believe that the screens will stop litter on the tracks? It'll just be dumped between cars in the tunnels. It certainly won't stop the suicidal types because they can jump from trains while between stations, so that line of reasoning is idiotic on it's face. How about showing some common sense and responsibility for our own actions instead? It's a whole lot cheaper and smarter. Put litter into litter baskets and dump it on your way out of the system. No screen needed. Keep your electronic devices in your pocket and it normally won't end up on the tracks. No screen needed. Heed your surroundings at ALL times. No screen needed. And for those of you so enamored of the other shiny new systems around the world I suggest you either dig deeper into your pockets every time you ride the NYC system OR dig VERY DEEP and buy a one way ticket elsewhere. The choice is yours. BTW we used to call that mentality " keeping up with the Joneses" and there never was a winner in that game.

 

Amen to that!

[Dumb4life]

What would happen if the train overshot or undershot?

[Trainmaster5]

What would happen if the train overshot or undershot?

 

Probably the same procedure as a gap filler overshoot at 14th St-Union Square on the s/b IRT. Don't open the doors there but proceed to the next stop.

[error46146]

I don't think too many people realize this with all the people moving in from other cities, but don't you think New York over the years (especially recently with KING BLOOMBERG in power) has lost much of its character? Why do we want to be like other cities? New York has become way too tourist-friendly imo. Just something to think about...

[8 Av/Fulton Exp]

and lets not forget the fact that chances are these doors will probably be made of plexi glass, which is gonna get bombed with Scratchiti, so how tacky is that gonna be? if not that youll have them writing on them with markers or stickers with their names on em, then of course companies are gonna want to use them as billboards for advertisements, after a while u wont ever be able to see the trains

[Art Vandelay]

Platform doors + CBTC = ZPTO?

It isn't hard to see how the MTA at least sees the possibility of savings there.

[R1103]

I haven't commented here yet, but for a start =

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Let's narrow it down...

 

1. VERY expensive to remodify stations to be able to use these doors.

2. Vandalism, and potential breaking down, since people have easy access to them (unless of course, you get security cameras, but knowing the TA....)

3. Stated earlier, elevated stations would be an extra hassle to deal with.

 

When you put these together....

 

TRIPLE FAIL!!!

[rtetro]

I don't think too many people realize this with all the people moving in from other cities, but don't you think New York over the years (especially recently with KING BLOOMBERG in power) has lost much of its character? Why do we want to be like other cities? New York has become way too tourist-friendly imo. Just something to think about...

 

IMHO New York will NEVER be like other cities. As someone who has lived in and visited several major metropolitan areas throughout the US and Europe, I have never seen another city that has New York's character. It is one of a kind.

 

In so far as being too tourist-friendly is concerned, New York always has been tourist-friendly. It almost has to be since so much revenue is generated by tourism. (Look what happened when tourism plummeted after 9/11). That being said, I would agree with what I believe is your premise: that New York City should not base the infrascructure that is primarily designed to meet the needs of residents and regular users on the perceived needs of tourists. The subway is the perfect example. A tourist may use the subway a few times in his lifetime. A resident may use it several times a day throughout his life. Tourists should be expected to use their heads and not depend on the MTA to install special devices (like glass doors) to ensure their safety. For those who are unfortunate enough to become a 12/9, in most cases the fall is due to their own negligence or unawareness of their surroundings.

 

I go back to what I said in the early stages of this thread. 40-50 deaths per year out more than 1.5 billion total rides is miniscule. It is an "acceptable risk" and, percentage wise, a miniscule number. If we built all infrastructure nationwide based on "zero tolerance" for accidental death, the nation would be even more broke than it is. While 12/9's are indeed tragic, the numbers do not justify the proposed cost when so much other infrascructure in the system NEEDS capital improvements.

[King Of RedBirds]

Inside the political butthole

 

XD.

[King Of RedBirds]

However, those usually require the car doors to be at the same position...and would be completely impractical on the letter lines (except the BMT Eastern Division and the IRT East Side and Queensboro lines), where the car doors are not at the same position---and even on the IRT East Side, an R62 is sometimes needed to make score on the #4 line, further complicating matters. Also, with the scheduled to get the R62s from the within the next few years (once the R142s are transferred to the , that could cause problems for the IRT East Side if a has to be rerouted on the East Side; the doors would not match up.

 

Instead, what needs to be done is to change the law so that willful negligence by an employee that causally led to the injury must be proven...and an intentional jumping is a valid defense for the MTA.

 

I Agree And Disagree Not All The R142 Cars On The Will Leave But What Pisses Me Off Is They Take R142A Cars Which Is The I Live On The 6 So IDC The R62A Cars Will Be A Good Flashback On The 6 I Personally Miss The R62 Cars So The 2 Train Don't Need Them

[King Of RedBirds]

I Agree And Disagree Not All The R142 Cars On The Will Leave But What Pisses Me Off Is They Take R142A Cars Which Is The I Live On The 6 So IDC The R62A Cars Will Be A Good Flashback On The 6 I Personally Miss The R62 Cars So The 2 Train Don't Need Them

 

They Would Because The Used To Have R62A Cars And The Had Some But Mostly R62 NOT A

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I Agree And Disagree Not All The R142 Cars On The Will Leave But What Pisses Me Off Is They Take R142A Cars Which Is The I Live On The 6 So IDC The R62A Cars Will Be A Good Flashback On The 6 I Personally Miss The R62 Cars So The 2 Train Don't Need Them

None of the R142s on the are leaving. Unless the ones on the are also leaving. The and need to have the same type of subway cars for operational flexiblity.

[SubwayGuy]

What subway cars run where is the least of anyone's problems.

 

New York City's little remaining character is being slowly and steadily wiped out. What made New York unique is slowly, steadily being wiped out. New York used to be a tourist destination because it was unique.

 

Now it's a tourist destination because it's just another f***ing cookie cutter mall. That's going to get boring awfully quick.

 

How soon until they decide to commercialize Liberty Island? Ellis Island? They've already basically destroyed Coney Island...

[R32 3838]

What subway cars run where is the least of anyone's problems.

 

New York City's little remaining character is being slowly and steadily wiped out. What made New York unique is slowly, steadily being wiped out. New York used to be a tourist destination because it was unique.

 

Now it's a tourist destination because it's just another f***ing cookie cutter mall. That's going to get boring awfully quick.

 

How soon until they decide to commercialize Liberty Island? Ellis Island? They've already basically destroyed Coney Island...

 

I Agree 100% New York is becoming very boring

[Roadcruiser1]

Not if they plant hardy palm trees that can surivive our winter climate at Coney Island. There really are palm trees that can surivive this weather that we get.

[mark1447]

If this ever happens.. Say Byebye to Railfanning the subways.. Because theres gonna be a wall blocking the view, unless u wanna fan inside the train or when the Sliding doors open

 

Who knows if the ELs could get these.

[Roadcruiser1]

I don't see why we need platform screen doors. I just published it, because it was from a news article. Anyway I don't think we need them. Chicago doesn't have platform screen doors, neither does Washington, or Boston.

[chrisliz09]

 

I don't see why we need platform screen doors. I just published it, because it was from a news article. Anyway I don't think we need them. Chicago doesn't have platform screen doors, neither does Washington, or Boston.

just another reason we need them doors, that MTA worker that was pushed onto the tracks the other day she is lucky but this is the main reason why we need them now she gets time off and sick pay and a good amount of money from the MTA just because some sick man pushed her