BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Abba]

So is the rest or Brooklyn and queens getting anytime soon?

It looks like only Manhattan will be on by years end

[Orion VII 4 Life]

So is the rest or Brooklyn and queens getting anytime soon?

Installation of the system has been halted on the new buses, which is leading me to believe the MTA might be learning their lesson on this. But, knowing the MTA that isn't true, and as far as expansion to the other boroughs goes I really don't know what they're doing. If they want every borough online by year's end they need to get moving.

[Culver]

Have you ever seen those guys? I laugh my ass off whenever the MTA puts a video up with them in it, if they're not hippies they're some serious nerds. IDC if they're hippies/nerds/whatever, but these guys know nothing about transit technology and work for a general open source consulting firm that found the open source bus tracking software (called NextBus or something like that) then hired Verifone to supply the equipment and install it into the buses. Whereas Clever Devices are transit technology EXPERTS with a proven track record of providing reliable AVL systems to transit agencies across North America. This is yet another example of the MTA being cheap, throwing money away on worthless garbage when it can be spent on much better, more useful things. If they wanted the Clever Devices system, which BTW is already installed on every new bus, it is the maintenance diagnostics system (I believe it also controls the random announcements and "please exit through the rear door") and it can be easily configured to include a BusTime-like system, automated announcements, and a bunch of other things, they could buy it.

 

=Money Thrown Away, that's all.

The word hippies is hilarious at this point. I mean, really, what do you define as hippies? They're just hipsters who are good with computers. I don't know what your personal thing against them is, but their fashion choices aren't really that insane in the year 2013.

 

I do agree though that the MTA should've just used Clever Devices' stuff for BusTime.

[Cait Sith]

So is the rest or Brooklyn and queens getting anytime soon?

 

Yes, later this year, Manhattan will be last.

[Grand Concourse]

MTA has the money, they just don't want to spend it. CTA, NJT, DART, LACMTA and a ton of others have handed some big a$$ checks to Clever Devices and all (both bigwigs and customers) seem to be safisfied with the technology.

i dunno about the hippies part, but I do question the pick the lowest bidder policy. Going with the cheapest option can lead to more problems down the road due to cut corners. I'd rather they pay for the stuff that's proven in other places to work right the first time and not worry about the issues later in the future. Of course there are exceptions good and bad, but I do say it should be a true competitive bidding than 'pick the cheapest option'.

[R188 7857]

Woot, I finally saw 6862 today in service  on the Q12 or Q13 (I forgot which).. Those arial numbers really do look tacky..

[Via Garibaldi 8]

i dunno about the hippies part, but I do question the pick the lowest bidder policy. Going with the cheapest option can lead to more problems down the road due to cut corners. I'd rather they pay for the stuff that's proven in other places to work right the first time and not worry about the issues later in the future. Of course there are exceptions good and bad, but I do say it should be a true competitive bidding than 'pick the cheapest option'.

That wasn't the case here... The has tried the so called clever device or at least something similar to it in the past and it didn't work out well, as was demonstrated with the whole fiasco with Siemens.  Bus Time is essentially the result of multiple failures the had with outside companies that simply couldn't get the system up in running, esp. in Manhattan due to the amount of skyscrapers and other variables.  Orion keeps complaining about clever device, but Bus Time works good enough.  I prefer this set up moreso than what they had on the M34 which was extremely inaccurate.  You'd wait for a bus and the shelter would show 4 mins until the bus was due then it would jump to 15 mins and the waiting continued and continued.  Bus Time is far more accurate and is better than nothing, esp. since more features can be explored over time.  

 

I still am able to meet up with my bus by simply looking at the schedule when the bus is due, though I will admit that it would be nice to know roughly when the bus will be arriving because sometimes I can be at a stop and the bus will be a few stops away and it can take 5 minutes sometimes and 20 mins other times so you are kind of in the dark as to whether or not there is traffic, no traffic, if the B/O is simply waiting at the stop not to be early or what, but I'll take this guide for now over wondering if the bus has come or not.  

Edited February 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Orion VII 4 Life]

That wasn't the case here... The has tried the so called clever device or at least something similar to it in the past and it didn't work out well, as was demonstrated with the whole fiasco with Siemens.  Bus Time is essentially the result of multiple failures the had with outside companies that simply couldn't get the system up in running, esp. in Manhattan due to the amount of skyscrapers and other variables.  Orion keeps complaining about clever device, but Bus Time works good enough.  I prefer this set up than what they had on the M34 which was extremely inaccurate.  You'd wait for a bus and the shelter would show 4 mins until the bus was due then it would jump to 15 min and the waiting continued and continued.  Bus Time is far more accurate and is better than nothing, esp. since more features can be explored over time.  

 

I still am able to meet up with my bus by simply looking at the schedule when the bus is due, though I will admit that it would be nice to know roughly when the bus will be arriving because sometimes I can be at a stop and the bus will be a few stops away and it can take 5 minutes sometimes and 20 mins other times so you are kind of in the dark as to whether or not there is traffic, no traffic, if the B/O is simply waiting at the stop not to be early or what, but I'll take this guide for now over wondering over wondering if the bus has come or not.  

Didn't work out well? The system was removed because it was a short-term demonstration paid for by Clever Devices. The Siemens system, IDK...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Didn't work out well? The system was removed because it was a short-term demonstration paid for by Clever Devices. The Siemens system, IDK...

That wasn't the only reason... The system wasn't accurate #1 and #2 Bus Time was made specifically for the in house and can be tailored more to their needs over time at a much lower cost to boot, so I prefer Bus Time. That's why the M34/M34A was switched over to Bus Time, not to mention less upkeep at the bus shelters that were using the other system.  Siemens was a disaster... I believe the sued them because they simply could not uphold their part of the contract and could not deliver.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Cait Sith]

That wasn't the only reason... The system wasn't accurate #1 and #2 Bus Time was made specifically for the in house and can be tailored more to their needs over time at a much lower cost to boot, so I prefer Bus Time. That's why the M34/M34A was switched over to Bus Time, not to mention less upkeep at the bus shelters that were using the other system.  Siemens was a disaster... I believe the sued them because they simply could not uphold their part of the contract and could not deliver.

 

Right, even the MTA stated that the program with the Clever Devices was not that good as a whole. There were a lot of failures during the trials.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Right, even the MTA stated that the program with the Clever Devices was not that good as a whole. There were a lot of failures during the trials.

I believe once they get Bus Time rolling in Brooklyn, Queens and Manhattan and things are running smoothly, they'll look into adding more features.  They really want folks to use it and certainly in my experience, it makes my commute much easier.  I think where it really comes in handy is if you're running late, you can check and see if the bus is coming already or not, this way you can either wait for the next bus or run out and get the bus.  

 

For these last few months, it's been godsend because sometimes the bus may be 20 mins late and instead of me standing there freezing my @ss off I can just wait inside and then when it's coming walk to the stop and get it or wait inside somewhere and keep warm until I see it coming.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Grand Concourse]

That wasn't the only reason... The system wasn't accurate #1 and #2 Bus Time was made specifically for the in house and can be tailored more to their needs over time at a much lower cost to boot, so I prefer Bus Time. That's why the M34/M34A was switched over to Bus Time, not to mention less upkeep at the bus shelters that were using the other system.  Siemens was a disaster... I believe the sued them because they simply could not uphold their part of the contract and could not deliver.

ok, so this is a win for the mta then, but like I said there are always pros and cons to everything. IMO I don't agree that picking the cheap option is the wisest way to go when there usually ends up being hidden costs and cost overruns to fix the problems. They should pick the best option and ideally towards the lower cost side,

[Via Garibaldi 8]

ok, so this is a win for the mta then, but like I said there are always pros and cons to everything. IMO I don't agree that picking the cheap option is the wisest way to go when there usually ends up being hidden costs and cost overruns to fix the problems. They should pick the best option and ideally towards the lower cost side,

Oh of course... I agree with you... I'm just saying that this wasn't the case here and why.  I can't wait for it to come to Brooklyn and Manhattan though... That's where it will really come in handy for me at because I spend too much time trying to guess with the local buses in the city and I hate getting on a packed bus and then seeing an empty one fly by.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Grand Concourse]

Yes, figuring out when the b41 shows up at the junction is a pita. From the glen wood intersection, its hard to tell if the bus is a b6 or a b41 and the b41 tends to bunch up if they've been backed up. I do think they should have some short turn buses at the junction to at least untangle the congestion. Q35, that's easy since it runs every 15 min and leaves almost on the dot.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

That wasn't the only reason... The system wasn't accurate #1 and #2 Bus Time was made specifically for the in house and can be tailored more to their needs over time at a much lower cost to boot, so I prefer Bus Time. That's why the M34/M34A was switched over to Bus Time, not to mention less upkeep at the bus shelters that were using the other system.  Siemens was a disaster... I believe the sued them because they simply could not uphold their part of the contract and could not deliver.

What about MTA Bustime (BTW Bustime is a trademark of Clever Devices, interesting how there's no lawsuits) allows them to change it to tailor to the MTA's needs? Clever Devices offers additional programs on their IVN computer like maintenance diagnostics (which the MTA already uses), on board GPS-based automated stop announcements and LED information signs, the countdown clocks (which I'm not a fan of but it's still a feature). Yes, it's proprietary software, but in this situation that works because Clever Devices can offer so many solutions on 1 computer system using proven software developed by transit technology professionals and used by pretty much every top transit system in the country EXCEPT the MTA. WMATA, CTA, NJT, most of LACMTA's fleet, who do they trust for "smart bus" systems? Clever Devices.  The MTA is very limited as to what they can do with that open-source software aside from delivering the customers the (sometimes VERY off) location of the buses.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Orion VII 4 Life

[Cait Sith]

What about MTA Bustime (BTW Bustime is a trademark of Clever Devices, interesting how there's no lawsuits)

 

They are used in the buses. I've seen the blue Clever Device boxes in the buses myself. Not many people (especially S.I folks) like all the added stuff like announcements and crap, they don't even like the announcements played every 15-20 minutes on them new buses!

[Orion VII 4 Life]

 

They are used in the buses. I've seen the blue Clever Device boxes in the buses myself. Not many people (especially S.I folks) like all the added stuff like announcements and crap, they don't even like the announcements played every 15-20 minutes on them new buses!

They are used in the buses for the maintenance diagnostics system and the random announcements/"please exit through the rear door". The current Bustime, AFAIK, is run from a different computer.

 

Sorry dude, but automated stop announcements are the future and are in place in every other major transit system in the nation (not only including the Clever Devices systems). If NJT can put in a Clever Devices system with those announcements at every stop (plus the random crap that goes off every 10 minutes) on the damn 139, they can be installed in MTA buses.

[Fresh Pond]

The dispatchers can monitor the buses easier, so it could help a little with that.

And they will call you if you're too early or late

 

...seen it happen

[Abba]

The problem is they took away the words that it would be "city-wide" by the end of the year.Only says Manhattan now.

[Acela Express]

I do think they should have some short turn buses at the junction to at least untangle the congestion..

There are specific runs that short-turn at Empire Blvd - some local and some LTD, to avoid all the 41s going Downtown and getting stuck in traffic.

 

And yes, they have rush hour shuttles that deadhead to the Junction, load then head into Bergen Beach a few times (and vice versa in the AM).

[BZGuy]

They are used in the buses for the maintenance diagnostics system and the random announcements/"please exit through the rear door". The current Bustime, AFAIK, is run from a different computer.

 

Sorry dude, but automated stop announcements are the future and are in place in every other major transit system in the nation (not only including the Clever Devices systems). If NJT can put in a Clever Devices system with those announcements at every stop (plus the random crap that goes off every 10 minutes) on the damn 139, they can be installed in MTA buses.

 

 

And the commuters on the 139 have already started bitching about it. When they get their way (notice that I said "when" and not "if") those announcements will be silenced. Don't underestimate the Route 9 commuters.

[Grand Concourse]

RTS 9138 on the Q35 and an ex-Bl O5 (didn't get the number). Also I think 5333 was on the B44 s/b, so that was fast breaking it in.

[Q43LTD]

I don't know if this belongs here, but Google maps sucks when it comes to transit directions

[Cait Sith]

They are used in the buses for the maintenance diagnostics system and the random announcements/"please exit through the rear door". The current Bustime, AFAIK, is run from a different computer.

 

Sorry dude, but automated stop announcements are the future and are in place in every other major transit system in the nation (not only including the Clever Devices systems). If NJT can put in a Clever Devices system with those announcements at every stop (plus the random crap that goes off every 10 minutes) on the damn 139, they can be installed in MTA buses.

 

Unfortunately for you, that's not a fact, especially the note of Clever Devices being in place in every other transit system because it's not.

 

What folks don't realize is that a majority of the big transit agencies outside of the tri-state area gets funded by the state.....where our previously blind governor cut funding for ours!

 

Just because you like something a lot doesn't mean its the wave of the future. Commuters along the Howell routes have been bitching about the announcements. Hell, some of the Market Street cruisers have them and some of the commuters have started to bitch about them as well!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Cait Sith

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Unfortunately for you, that's not a fact, especially the note of Clever Devices being in place in every other transit system because it's not.

 

What folks don't realize is that a majority of the big transit agencies outside of the tri-state area gets funded by the state.....where our previously blind governor cut funding for ours!

 

Just because you like something a lot doesn't mean its the wave of the future. Commuters along the Howell routes have been bitching about the announcements. Hell, some of the Market Street cruisers have them and some of the commuters have started to bitch about them as well!

I did say that not all those systems are from CD, the fact is every other major transit system uses automated announcements whether they're from CD, Orbital, Avail Technologies or whatever. And of course they're gonna bitch about them and they'll win, they're f**king Route 9 commuters. but local bus riders in the city will have no excuse. I'm all for silencing them on the Prevosts and MCIs though.