NYCT/MTAB Planned Service Changes for 2011

[B35 via Church]

-The B12 and Q24 had a decent number of riders in that area. The B12 and Q24 (at least according to the MTA's stats) got 3,000 riders on their discontinued sections. By comparison, the B37 got 3,000 riders along the whole route.

 

-Bedford Park is poor compared to the rest of the city. It isn't as poor as neighborhoods further south, but at best, you could consider it lower-middle class (the same for Fordham and Norwood, which are served by the Bx34).

 

See these sites:

http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Fordham-Bronx-NY.html

http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Bedford-Park-Bronx-NY.html

http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Norwood-Bronx-NY.html

 

-Even if Third Avenue still has the Bx15, the point is that they lost a significant number of buses in the corridor.

 

* 3000 riders per what? day/month/week/year....

The number alone doesn't tell me much of anything....

 

* When people think of poor areas, Bedford Park iddn't fittin the bill....

figured you were gonna pull up some stat; which is why I looked them up myself before I posted.... Using those stats, I can make the argument that Bedford Park is on par w/ the rest of the entire borough, as far as income levels/household goes.... Would it be fair to conclude that every area w/i the Bronx "is poor compared to the rest of the city", based on how average Bedford Park is w/i the rest of its borough....

 

This is why I hate these type of arguments....

 

* The loss of the Bx55 wasn't drastic to the point where it greatly affected riders commutes... and that is my point...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

* 3000 riders per what? day/month/week/year....

The number alone doesn't tell me much of anything....

 

* When people think of poor areas, Bedford Park iddn't fittin the bill....

figured you were gonna pull up some stat; which is why I looked them up myself before I posted.... Using those stats, I can make the argument that Bedford Park is on par w/ the rest of the entire borough, as far as income levels/household goes.... Would it be fair to conclude that every area w/i the Bronx "is poor compared to the rest of the city", based on how average Bedford Park is w/i the rest of its borough....

 

This is why I hate these type of arguments....

 

* The loss of the Bx55 wasn't drastic to the point where it greatly affected riders commutes... and that is my point...

 

Bedford Park overall is considered an affluent area. There are some very wealthy people that live there. In fact a co-worker of mine commented on this guy that lives there who take a private plan to and from work everyday. The idea sounds outrageous, but it does show some of the wealth that exists in the area.

 

 

I also don't believe that you can necessarily trust the stats put out by the because they can change them to justify cutting service or tweak them to suit their needs. Who exactly is watching over the to confirm that their stats are true anyway??? :confused:

[JAzumah]

You're preaching to the choir with this... I am not defending the crummy service in Nassau County....

 

 

...and envy is a form of hate - which you've clearly illustrated w/ that remark about putting private operators in Staten Island... who are already dealing w/ subpar bus service the MTA's providing them, compared to the rest of the city...

 

Don't try to turn this into a Staten Island vs Long Island thing....

 

Exactly...remember that when a batch of SI MCIs went to Queens, it took MTA Bus four weeks to bring those buses back to a level where they felt comfortable running them. We won't bring up the fact that the X23 and X24 are being run by a private carrier.

[Q43LTD]

what about the subway and LIRR? cant they get some restorations too, whys it just the buses getting all the love here?

As far as the subways go, the and the can return

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Exactly...remember that when a batch of SI MCIs went to Queens, it took MTA Bus four weeks to bring those buses back to a level where they felt comfortable running them. We won't bring up the fact that the X23 and X24 are being run by a private carrier.

 

For what it is worth if the really cared about Staten Island taking better are of their buses, they would've gotten Charleston up and running quicker than they did. Yukon and Castleton had been overcapacity for many years before the mini Meredith came about and finally Charleston earlier this year.

[checkmatechamp13]

Okay, that's all I wanted you to admit... And that is exactly my point... For the few crumbs that the more affluent suburban areas get, we have every right to fight to get our express bus service back, as well as local service that may have been lost, considering what we forfeit by way of the taxes we pay to contribute to the "overall good of the system" as you put it, so my support of Bay Ridge as I've noted would benefit me, but I'm also supporting them because I am tired of my tax dollars benefiting the "overall good of the system" while the urban areas get the majority of the service and folks complain about express bus service being a waste, but it is okay for us middle class folks to sink our tax dollars into providing transportation for others who contribute far less. It is a form of overtaxation to say the least.

 

I would be interested in seeing how much taxes is given to the per neighbourhood in each borough in comparison to the level of service given. That would be some very interesting stats to analyze.

 

Very few people (on these forums) complain about express bus service being a waste.

 

The general public could care less about whether or not an express bus route exists (unless, of course, they use that particular route)

 

As far as your logic goes, basically every public service is "overtaxation". Our whole taxation is about "the overall good of the system". If you go out to the real suburbs, you'll find that it is even more skewed: People are paying taxes to support local bus services that they don't use, so by your logic, they shouldn't have to pay taxes and there should be very little local bus service in the suburbs.

 

* 3000 riders per what? day/month/week/year....

The number alone doesn't tell me much of anything....

 

* When people think of poor areas, Bedford Park iddn't fittin the bill....

figured you were gonna pull up some stat; which is why I looked them up myself before I posted.... Using those stats, I can make the argument that Bedford Park is on par w/ the rest of the entire borough, as far as income levels/household goes.... Would it be fair to conclude that every area w/i the Bronx "is poor compared to the rest of the city", based on how average Bedford Park is w/i the rest of its borough....

 

This is why I hate these type of arguments....

 

* The loss of the Bx55 wasn't drastic to the point where it greatly affected riders commutes... and that is my point...

 

3,000 riders per weekday for each of the 3 routes.

 

And yes, the Bronx overall is poor compared to the rest of city (though I wouldn't say the entire Bronx, since there are areas that are middle- and upper-class compared to the rest of the city). I figure that if he considers parts of Staten Island like Mariners' Harbor poor, he'll consider Bedford Park poor, since most parts of Bedford Park (at least according to those stats) have a lower income level than Mariners' Harbor.

 

Bedford Park overall is considered an affluent area. There are some very wealthy people that live there. In fact a co-worker of mine commented on this guy that lives there who take a private plan to and from work everyday. The idea sounds outrageous, but it does show some of the wealth that exists in the area.

 

 

I also don't believe that you can necessarily trust the stats put out by the because they can change them to justify cutting service or tweak them to suit their needs. Who exactly is watching over the to confirm that their stats are true anyway??? :confused:

 

Not according to those stats. An area with a median household income of $31,000 isn't considered affluent. You may have a couple of sections of Bedford Park that are affluent, but the neighborhood overall isn't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Very few people (on these forums) complain about express bus service being a waste.

 

The general public could care less about whether or not an express bus route exists (unless, of course, they use that particular route)

 

As far as your logic goes, basically every public service is "overtaxation". Our whole taxation is about "the overall good of the system". If you go out to the real suburbs, you'll find that it is even more skewed: People are paying taxes to support local bus services that they don't use, so by your logic, they shouldn't have to pay taxes and there should be very little local bus service in the suburbs.

 

 

 

3,000 riders per weekday for each of the 3 routes.

 

And yes, the Bronx overall is poor compared to the rest of city (though I wouldn't say the entire Bronx, since there are areas that are middle- and upper-class compared to the rest of the city). I figure that if he considers parts of Staten Island like Mariners' Harbor poor, he'll consider Bedford Park poor, since most parts of Bedford Park (at least according to those stats) have a lower income level than Mariners' Harbor.

 

 

 

Not according to those stats. An area with a median household income of $31,000 isn't considered affluent. You may have a couple of sections of Bedford Park that are affluent, but the neighborhood overall isn't.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Mariners' Harbor is a dump. Even Forest Ave looks like sh*t over there, which is saying something because you know that going past Clove Lakes Park and over by West Brighton by Bard and Bement Avenue towards Randall Manor and up by the golf course near Silver Lake is quite nice. The only thing that looks half decent in Mariners' Harbor is the shopping area there where Western Beef is, which isn't anything really to begin with. LOL They can cut off that neighbourhood and let it float over by NJ and take Jersey Street, Stapleton and "PT RICHMOND" while they're at it. LMAO

 

As far as Bedford Park goes, it is kind of like parts of Manhattan where you have very ritzy parts of one neighbourhood with housing projects near by. This of course drives down the median income as we can clearly see and this case and no, $31,000 in my book is far from affluent. :eek:

 

 

As far as my logic goes if anything we should be paying for more express bus service and local bus service for our neighbourhoods way before any service for the urban areas. Let them subsidize their own transit. I still want you to show me some stats of how much each neighourhood pays by way of taxes and compare that to how much service they get...

[checkmatechamp13]

As far as I'm concerned, Mariners' Harbor is a dump. Even Forest Ave looks like sh*t over there, which is saying something because you know that going past Clove Lakes Park and over by West Brighton by Bard and Bement Avenue towards Randall Manor and up by the golf course near Silver Lake is quite nice. The only thing that looks half decent in Mariners' Harbor is the shopping area there where Western Beef is, which isn't anything really to begin with. LOL They can cut off that neighbourhood and let it float over by NJ and take Jersey Street and "PT RICHMOND" while they're at it. LMAO

 

As far as Bedford Park goes, it is kind of like parts of Manhattan where you have very ritzy parts of one neighbourhood with housing projects near by. This of course drives down the median income as we can clearly see and this case and no, $31,000 in my book is far from affluent. :eek:

 

 

As far as my logic goes if anything we should be paying for more express bus service and local bus service for our neighbourhoods way before any service for the urban areas. Let them subsidize their own transit. I still want you to show me some stats of how much each neighourhood pays by way of taxes and compare that to how much service they get...

 

I figured you'd say that. Let's just agree to disagree about Mariners' Harbor.

 

You don't need housing projects to bring down the median income of an area. Run-down tenements will accomplish that as well (look at parts of Stapleton and Port Richmond)

 

I have no idea where to get the information regarding how much service an area gets based on the taxes it pays. I would assume that you can find the median income, and then look on a map and see how much service the area gets. Then, you can look at the farebox recovery ratios for each area and see how much the service is being subsidized.

 

One thing, though: Look at the buses running down 5th/Madison Avenue. The last time I checked, the UES was a pretty affluent area, yet they have excellent service. (OK, ridership is high, so it doesn't require that much money in subsidies)

 

Let's take a look at Gerrittsen Beach. The B31 has a fairly low frequency on weekends, but look at how much it is subsidized: The cost per passenger is $3.56, and the average fare paid is $1.29, so the taxpayers have to pay $2.27 per passenger to subsidize their service, which is close to 2/3 of the cost of running the bus.

 

Now lets take a look at the Bx15, which goes through Morrisania and East Tremont (the Bx55 also works). It costs about $1.30 per passenger to operate, which means it only requires $0.01, which is much less than Gerrittsen Beach's $2.27.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I figured you'd say that. Let's just agree to disagree about Mariners' Harbor.

 

You don't need housing projects to bring down the median income of an area. Run-down tenements will accomplish that as well (look at parts of Stapleton and Port Richmond)

 

I have no idea where to get the information regarding how much service an area gets based on the taxes it pays. I would assume that you can find the median income, and then look on a map and see how much service the area gets. Then, you can look at the farebox recovery ratios for each area and see how much the service is being subsidized.

 

Yes I know you would say that, but seriously, is there any decent looking part of Mariners' Harbor? Everything looks rather run down over there except for the big box stores, which are relatively new. If you ask me, there are way too many car repair shops over there and those places always make a neighbourhood look rather run down. Also, they have too many abandoned lots and houses over by that Pizzeria there on Forest Avenue [Rosario's or whatever it is called].

[cotb16]

My replies in red.

 

For the Bx14, I only restored to shut Country Club riders up. The only difference is that it would run a little bit less frequently (every 30 minutes) during off-peak hours.

 

As for the Bx55, I agree with your statement that only Saturday service should be restored since both ends of the Bx55 are two of the Bronx's biggest shopping strips, Fordham Road and 149th Street. Sundays, however, the Bx15 alone may suffice.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes I know you would say that, but seriously, is there any decent looking part of Mariners' Harbor? Everything looks rather run down over there except for the big box stores, which are relatively new. If you ask me, there are way too many car repair shops over there and those places always make a neighbourhood look rather run down. Also, they have too many abandoned lots and houses over by that Pizzeria there on Forest Avenue [Rosario's or whatever it is called].

 

Have you been to any parts of Mariners' Harbor other than Forest Avenue? If you go to Maple Parkway, where the divider in the street is, you'll find some nice, big houses (the same thing for Union Avenue, which is a block over). Even along Grandview Avenue and South Avenue, the houses look fairly nice (even though they are right near the Mariners' Harbor Houses)

 

Many of the houses in the area are townhouses, but even then, most of them are well-kept.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Have you been to any parts of Mariners' Harbor other than Forest Avenue? If you go to Maple Parkway, where the divider in the street is, you'll find some nice houses.

 

 

Nope, never. Doesn't seem worth it nor safe to go meandering about there. But Forest Avenue in Mariners' Harbor is nothing compared to what I saw on South Ave by Richmond Terrace that time when the X30 detoured. OMG, I thought I was in a third world country somewhere. I said WTH is this?!!?? Abandoned houses and wooded run down streets and such and the people that were outside looked really poor and destitute. I just kept thinking, God, PLEASE don't let this express bus break down. :eek: LMAO I can't tell you how relieved I was to see South and Forest Avenue.

[checkmatechamp13]

But you didn't see the houses along South Avenue south of the railroad tracks? They look fairly well-kept.

 

In any case, maybe my definition of "nice homes" is different from yours. You have to consider that I grew up with 4 other people in a 1-bedroom apartment (although it was a nice one), so anything that looks somewhat well-kept and has space will be "nice"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But you didn't see the houses along South Avenue south of the railroad tracks? They look fairly well-kept.

 

In any case, maybe my definition of "nice homes" is different from yours. You have to consider that I grew up with 4 other people in a 1-bedroom apartment (although it was a nice one), so anything that looks somewhat well-kept and has space will be "nice"

 

I found the whole thing weird actually. I did see some decent looking houses, but they were mixed in w/really sh*tty ones or next to some abandoned lot or something. The whole scene really freaked me out, I'm serious. I never knew an area of Staten Island existed like that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I figured you'd say that. Let's just agree to disagree about Mariners' Harbor.

 

You don't need housing projects to bring down the median income of an area. Run-down tenements will accomplish that as well (look at parts of Stapleton and Port Richmond)

 

I have no idea where to get the information regarding how much service an area gets based on the taxes it pays. I would assume that you can find the median income, and then look on a map and see how much service the area gets. Then, you can look at the farebox recovery ratios for each area and see how much the service is being subsidized.

 

One thing, though: Look at the buses running down 5th/Madison Avenue. The last time I checked, the UES was a pretty affluent area, yet they have excellent service. (OK, ridership is high, so it doesn't require that much money in subsidies)

 

Let's take a look at Gerrittsen Beach. The B31 has a fairly low frequency on weekends, but look at how much it is subsidized: The cost per passenger is $3.56, and the average fare paid is $1.29, so the taxpayers have to pay $2.27 per passenger to subsidize their service, which is close to 2/3 of the cost of running the bus.

 

Now lets take a look at the Bx15, which goes through Morrisania and East Tremont (the Bx55 also works). It costs about $1.30 per passenger to operate, which means it only requires $0.01, which is much less than Gerrittsen Beach's $2.27.

 

Are you aware of how small Gerritsen Beach is compared to the Upper East Side?? It is a very isolated part of Southern Brooklyn, with Gerritsen Ave. being the main thing happening. Aside from that you have your little side streets, but not much else.

[B35 via Church]

And yes, the Bronx overall is poor compared to the rest of city (though I wouldn't say the entire Bronx, since there are areas that are middle- and upper-class compared to the rest of the city). I figure that if he considers parts of Staten Island like Mariners' Harbor poor, he'll consider Bedford Park poor, since most parts of Bedford Park (at least according to those stats) have a lower income level than Mariners' Harbor.

 

I figure that if he considers parts of Staten Island like Mariners' Harbor poor, he'll consider Bedford Park poor, since most parts of Bedford Park (at least according to those stats) have a lower income level than Mariners' Harbor.

 

Not according to those stats. An area with a median household income of $31,000 isn't considered affluent. You may have a couple of sections of Bedford Park that are affluent, but the neighborhood overall isn't.

 

 

If I said, damn, that girl is drop dead gorgeous...

via says, she aint "drop dead" gorgeous, but she is cute...

you come along and say, eh, she's okay lookin....

 

What does that say about the girl... is she not attractive?

But w/ what you'd do w/ both of our opinions, is find some way to justify why (as in, factually) the girl isn't, at the very least, cute....

 

This is the equivalent of what you're doing in that bulk reply...

 

 

Point I'm makin w/ that analogy is... How do you figure what via would consider poor, based on YOUR lack of knowledge (which was evident from the jump, seeming that you had to run to stats to illustrate to me that the area is poor) of the area constituting Bedford Park... Even if you had a couple "affluent" sections of an area, how in the blue hell could you consider it poor, dude? The stats don't tell you everything... You would neeeever know...

 

lol... I mean, I can come off the bench, haven't done shit all season & hit a game winning basket in the NBA finals...

What would you see on the stat sheet - 1 minute, 2 points...

That's it.

 

Poor areas do not have "affluent" enclaves within them !

 

Furthermore, you can't tell me that the Bronx is overall poor compared to the rest of the city... then tell me well, not the entire borough... if you iterate a stat (in this case, income levels) to me, which shows an area (Bedford Pk. @ 31k) that's below a borough's (Bronx @ ~32k) average, then what you have to stand on, is... ALL of the BRONX is poor....

 

^^ You lose that gray area when you rely on stats in an argument.... either you're all for the stats, or all against them...

 

 

To sum it up, it's far easier to say, you just don't know about the area...

This way, you don't have to resort to these fish-out-of-the-water arguments....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If I said, damn, that girl is drop dead gorgeous...

via says, she aint "drop dead" gorgeous, but she is cute...

you come along and say, eh, she's okay lookin....

 

What does that say about the girl... is she not attractive?

But w/ what you'd do w/ both of our opinions, is find some way to justify why (as in, factually) the girl isn't, at the very least, cute....

 

This is the equivalent of what you're doing in that bulk reply...

 

 

Point I'm makin w/ that analogy is... How do you figure what via would consider poor, based on YOUR lack of knowledge (which was evident from the jump, seeming that you had to run to stats to illustrate to me that the area is poor) of the area constituting Bedford Park... Even if you had a couple "affluent" sections of an area, how in the blue hell could you consider it poor, dude? The stats don't tell you everything... You would neeeever know...

 

lol... I mean, I can come off the bench, haven't done shit all season & hit a game winning basket in the NBA finals...

What would you see on the stat sheet - 1 minute, 2 points...

That's it.

 

Poor areas do not have "affluent" enclaves within them !

 

Furthermore, you can't tell me that the Bronx is overall poor compared to the rest of the city... then tell me well, not the entire borough... if you iterate a stat (in this case, income levels) to me, which shows an area (Bedford Pk. @ 31k) that's below a borough's (Bronx @ ~32k) average, then what you have to stand on, is... ALL of the BRONX is poor....

 

^^ You lose that gray area when you rely on stats in an argument.... either you're all for the stats, or all against them...

 

 

To sum it up, it's far easier to say, you just don't know about the area...

This way, you don't have to resort to these fish-out-of-the-water arguments....

 

LMAO... :eek:

 

I actually found an article on Bedford Park. The area seems to have a good deal of Co-ops, which you wouldn't generally find in poorer areas. I think what's driving the median income level down is that there are a lot of apt buildings, BUT you still have about 20% of whites living there and some Asians as well, so there are some parts of it that clearly are middle class. Not to stereotype, but I don't know too many poor Koreans. They're usually found in more middle class/affluent areas. of NYC.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/realestate/29livi.html

[qjtransitmaster]

Nassau county was created because we didn't want to be part of New York city when Queens County was being annexed. There is no benefit to having Nassau County being part of New York city, the characteristic of nassau county is much much different than Queens.

 

Suburban bus service is never going to match that of Urban bus service, they can increase headways but its a waste of money to have buses parading down the county with noone in them or a bus with 40 seats and only 1-2 people in them. Staten Island isn't as suburban as Nassau is, its comparable to Eastern Queens at best.

 

and what exactly are you proposing as far as a source of revenue like the Verrazano bridge? the county exec can't put tolls on the highways they aren't under his jurisdiction, the LIE and the parkways are owned by the State.

 

I agree to a certain extent LOCAL buses NOT regional ones will not work in suburban places as they are too short in structure and the places ppl need to get to are spread out. Therefore why regional lines and train services do better. Like the LIRR but the PARKWAY system screwed up transit badly as buses CANT use them which means in nassau regional rtes will have to be positioned in a way to avoid duplicating the LIRR or there toast!!!!! unfortunately only the seaford oyster bay expressway and sunrise hwy are bus friendly BUT sunrise hwy has LIRR killing any bus rte that dares go there unless it gets off to areas with density but no lirr service!!!!

[GreatOne2k]

As far as the subways go, the and the can return

 

The will likely return in 2016/2017 when the gets rerouted to 96 St, unless the returns for rush hour Astoria service.

[checkmatechamp13]

I found the whole thing weird actually. I did see some decent looking houses, but they were mixed in w/really sh*tty ones or next to some abandoned lot or something. The whole scene really freaked me out, I'm serious. I never knew an area of Staten Island existed like that.

 

Actually, in a couple of areas (mostly around Maple Parkway), there are houses, but they're near undeveloped pieces of land (but they're not weed-strewn vacant lots or anything like that), which gives it more of a suburban feel.

 

Are you aware of how small Gerritsen Beach is compared to the Upper East Side?? It is a very isolated part of Southern Brooklyn, with Gerritsen Ave. being the main thing happening. Aside from that you have your little side streets, but not much else.

 

You could argue within Staten Island as well. Look at the farebox recovery ratio of the S46 and S48 (even with additional farebeaters) compared to the farebox recovery ratio of routes like the S74 and S78. Even with Stapleton and Park Hill providing customers, the North Shore routes are more efficient by a long shot.

 

If I said, damn, that girl is drop dead gorgeous...

via says, she aint "drop dead" gorgeous, but she is cute...

you come along and say, eh, she's okay lookin....

 

What does that say about the girl... is she not attractive?

But w/ what you'd do w/ both of our opinions, is find some way to justify why (as in, factually) the girl isn't, at the very least, cute....

 

This is the equivalent of what you're doing in that bulk reply...

 

 

Point I'm makin w/ that analogy is... How do you figure what via would consider poor, based on YOUR lack of knowledge (which was evident from the jump, seeming that you had to run to stats to illustrate to me that the area is poor) of the area constituting Bedford Park... Even if you had a couple "affluent" sections of an area, how in the blue hell could you consider it poor, dude? The stats don't tell you everything... You would neeeever know...

 

lol... I mean, I can come off the bench, haven't done shit all season & hit a game winning basket in the NBA finals...

What would you see on the stat sheet - 1 minute, 2 points...

That's it.

 

Poor areas do not have "affluent" enclaves within them !

 

Furthermore, you can't tell me that the Bronx is overall poor compared to the rest of the city... then tell me well, not the entire borough... if you iterate a stat (in this case, income levels) to me, which shows an area (Bedford Pk. @ 31k) that's below a borough's (Bronx @ ~32k) average, then what you have to stand on, is... ALL of the BRONX is poor....

 

^^ You lose that gray area when you rely on stats in an argument.... either you're all for the stats, or all against them...

 

 

To sum it up, it's far easier to say, you just don't know about the area...

This way, you don't have to resort to these fish-out-of-the-water arguments....

 

In those stats, though, I didn't see any sections of Bedford Park that were "affluent". The most "affluent" section of Bedford Park has a median income of $43,342, which is by no means affluent (if you want to use median per capita income, the most affluent section has a median per capita income of $22,039, which, again isn't affluent).

 

Also, since the median income of The Bronx is $32,000, that means that there are areas that have a higher median income, so it is possible for The Bronx to be poor overall, and yet have several areas that are affluent (so Morrisania and East Tremont are offset by Riverdale and Country Club)

[B35 via Church]

In those stats, though, I didn't see any sections of Bedford Park that were "affluent". The most "affluent" section of Bedford Park has a median income of $43,342, which is by no means affluent (if you want to use median per capita income, the most affluent section has a median per capita income of $22,039, which, again isn't affluent).

 

Also, since the median income of The Bronx is $32,000, that means that there are areas that have a higher median income, so it is possible for The Bronx to be poor overall, and yet have several areas that are affluent (so Morrisania and East Tremont are offset by Riverdale and Country Club)

 

 

Don't try to flip it.... My argument is not that Bedford Park is "affluent"...

My argument from the beginning, is that the area's not poor; which is what you were conveying w/ the stat you brought up....

 

I know what a median income is.... the fieldston's/riverdale's cancel out the hunts point's of the world; got all that.... There are more areas in the borough that are less like fieldston/riverdale, which brings down the arithmetic median income.... I'm not denying the bronx has its well off areas & its (more) rundown areas.... I'm telling you, ya can't give me stats & then run to gray areas when you're backed in a corner....

 

I don't need a stat to tell me Riverdale is one of the more well off areas in the borough...

I don't need a stat to tell me Hunts point is a dump....

 

....just like I don't need a stat to tell me Bedford Park is not poor...

 

You need a stat to tell me that it is.

 

 

 

 

All I'm saying is Staten Island is similar to Nassau in terms of population density and layout, and yet with the exception of a lack of a direct rail connection to Manhattan, the borough has better bus service compared to Nassau.

So why should Nassau suffer with worsening service?

The real thing that may need to happen, long term, is for Nassau to join NYC as the 6th borough, but Mangano and the backwards yokels that go to the polls in Nassau wont go for it.

I don't ever see that happening (Nassau becoming a 6th borough).... public transit, as much as we in this transit community place a certain importance on it, isn't/shouldn't be a reason alone as to why that should ever have to occur... especially when the county itself is defiant about not being part of the city. in any shape, form, or fashion...

 

 

 

and again, no one is saying that Nassau should have to put up (or in your words, suffer) with pathetic service....

 

speaking of expanding service... you mention you'd support LI startin up its own transportation authority....

when you're not incessantly complaining all the time, you actually do have some good ideas; that, I can't get on you, on....

I'd like to hear how you would expand bus service out in Nassau if such a thing were to theoretically to happen....

 

 

...and yeah, the PW branch does need to revert back to lower headways.... agree 100% on that...

still not givin you dap though....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Don't try to flip it.... My argument is not that Bedford Park is "affluent"...

My argument from the beginning, is that the area's not poor; which is what you were conveying w/ the stat you brought up....

 

I know what a median income is.... the fieldston's/riverdale's cancel out the hunts point's of the world; got all that.... There are more areas in the borough that are less like fieldston/riverdale, which brings down the arithmetic median income.... I'm not denying the bronx has its well off areas & its (more) rundown areas.... I'm telling you, ya can't give me stats & then run to gray areas when you're backed in a corner....

 

I don't need a stat to tell me Riverdale is one of the more well off areas in the borough...

I don't need a stat to tell me Hunts point is a dump....

 

....just like I don't need a stat to tell me Bedford Park is not poor...

 

You need a stat to tell me that it is.

 

The thing w/the Bronx, especially the Northern Bronx is that you have areas that aren't necessarily the ideal "affluent" area, but they do have folks with money. The problem is that there is such a mixture of groups and a mixture of havs and have nots that you don't get a clear picture of the situation if you look solely at the median income. It is very misleading. My ex-coworker lives in Morris Park. He's retired, but he is loaded and you would never know it because he is rather frugal w/some things, but he has no problem spending $40.00 and such on lunch. He and his wife own their house outright and have maid service and everything, so you really don't know who has what all of the time. As you say, you can't come to conclusions with everything based solely on stats.

[checkmatechamp13]

Don't try to flip it.... My argument is not that Bedford Park is "affluent"...

My argument from the beginning, is that the area's not poor; which is what you were conveying w/ the stat you brought up....

 

I know what a median income is.... the fieldston's/riverdale's cancel out the hunts point's of the world; got all that.... There are more areas in the borough that are less like fieldston/riverdale, which brings down the arithmetic median income.... I'm not denying the bronx has its well off areas & its (more) rundown areas.... I'm telling you, ya can't give me stats & then run to gray areas when you're backed in a corner....

 

I don't need a stat to tell me Riverdale is one of the more well off areas in the borough...

I don't need a stat to tell me Hunts point is a dump....

 

....just like I don't need a stat to tell me Bedford Park is not poor...

 

You need a stat to tell me that it is.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't ever see that happening (Nassau becoming a 6th borough).... public transit, as much as we in this transit community place a certain importance on it, isn't/shouldn't be a reason alone as to why that should ever have to occur... especially when the county itself is defiant about not being part of the city. in any shape, form, or fashion...

 

 

 

and again, no one is saying that Nassau should have to put up (or in your words, suffer) with pathetic service....

 

speaking of expanding service... you mention you'd support LI startin up its own transportation authority....

when you're not incessantly complaining all the time, you actually do have some good ideas; that, I can't get on you, on....

I'd like to hear how you would expand bus service out in Nassau if such a thing were to theoretically to happen....

 

 

...and yeah, the PW branch does need to revert back to lower headways.... agree 100% on that...

still not givin you dap though....

 

The "affluent" comment was more directed towards Via Garibaldi, since he mentioned that his well-off coworker lived there.

 

The thing is that I saw that the median income was what he would consider poor, so I figured that it would help my argument regarding poor areas that got their service eliminated ($31,000 is roughly the median income of Arlington, and he said that his impression of the area when he passed through it, was that it was a poor area).

 

I do agree that Bedford Park isn't what people first think of when you tell them of a poor area in The Bronx.

 

The thing w/the Bronx, especially the Northern Bronx is that you have areas that aren't necessarily the ideal "affluent" area, but they do have folks with money. The problem is that there is such a mixture of groups and a mixture of havs and have nots that you don't get a clear picture of the situation if you look solely at the median income. It is very misleading. My ex-coworker lives in Morris Park. He's retired, but he is loaded and you would never know it because he is rather frugal w/some things, but he has no problem spending $40.00 and such on lunch. He and his wife own their house outright and have maid service and everything, so you really don't know who has what all of the time. As you say, you can't come to conclusions with everything based solely on stats.

 

Morris Park isn't what anybody would really consider a poor area.

 

There are areas where the area looks poor overall, but there are some affluent people living in the area. But I still wouldn't say that the entire area is affluent.

 

For example, according to the American Community Survey (http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=nyregion), there are several areas that are considered poor, but have a sizable amount of high-income people living there. For example, parts of East NY have over 15% of the households earning over $100,000, yet it is generally considered poor.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Morris Park isn't what anybody would really consider a poor area.

There are areas where the area looks poor overall, but there are some affluent people living in the area. But I still wouldn't say that the entire area is affluent.

 

That's kind of my point. Those who aren't familiar with the Bronx would assume that the entire borough is just a dump, but aside from the South Bronx, there are some areas that are decent. I still have to admit that when I took the BXM10 up there to attend a BBQ that he was throwing I was shocked to believe that I was in the Bronx. Here I was on a tree lined, clean quiet street and if I didn't know any better, I would've thought I was in Westchester. His wife is Italian-American, so that would sort of explain why they live there since there is an Italian-American presence there.

[East New York]

- The MTA Bus Operation Committee reviewed plans to alter, end, and or change routes and schedules on a total of 25 routes today.

 

These routes include the M50, Q113, X22, X37, and X38.

See pages 53-79

http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/110421_1115_BUS.pdf