Which lines interline with 319 and 551 or 552??

[qjtransitmaster]

That is just crazy. That will defeat the entire purpose of a 553X even if its select trips. Your talking crazy 553 interlining into 401s Salem does not need all of that service. Before you come up with these ideas you need to get into those areas. There is no point of sending an AC based route to Salem and Wilmington. Delaware isnt in NJTs mind. The 423 was axed because of low ridership and it ran AM & PM rush hours. Doesnt that tell you something? Most of South Jersey peeps work in and around the Phila metro. area. Thats why the vast majority of the buses run through Camden County and into Phila. And if more people dont ride the 468 that shyt is gona be axed also. Same with the 401 and 402. NJT will have no problem keeping the 401 in Woodbury. The only thing thats keeping the 468 in tact is Salem County Trasnit and if they somehow cant run that anymore NJT will make the route very very very limited to the point where they will say to hell with it and axe it.

 

thanks for ur input I guess a park and ride and bikeway is good enough lol. I was proposing 90 min frequenciess for salem not too much service I have been out there so I know super frequent service isnt needed. Also the 423 was axed cause it was so infrequent it was completely unusable!!! It isn't all just salem this part of the plan is called accident service meaning in order for a rte to get from one major area to another it must pass through salem meaning the service is by accident. It is not just salem and the rural there is way more to it than that alot more there are other factors factors based on SJ peeps complaints about transit in SJ in general there is a lack of Cross east-west service in gloucester. That is the real problem salem is just caught in betweeen. Plus I remember earlier you said that salem county transit is sad and doesnt run enough service for the peeps. Now you say it isnt needed clear that up plz. Also the name of the game is grid cross meet. Meaning the ridership is powered up by each rte that connects. However I admire ur input have you done the 401???

[qjtransitmaster]

(part in bold) is The sticking point.

----------------

 

 

 

What is this love affair w/ Salem county all of a sudden....

 

Running buses in extremely low density areas just because they don't have (as much) service, doesn't make it anymore justified..... and having buses cross state lines (and pick up pax in it) isn't as easy as it sounds; far from it....

 

You run buses where the riders are, not where they're aren't....

if there was any latent ridership out there, midday runs on 402 pennsville would not have been cut....

 

...and to suggest that the 553 should be interlined w/ the 401 ("select trips" or not, is irrelevant), after mentioning yourself on multiple occasions that the 553-559 interlines should cease, is mind boggling..... It's like telling someone they should stop doin heroin, and start smokin weed instead.....

 

QJT, you run things in a whole... stop acting (posting) before thinking....

 

What I suggested for interlining was only a few 553X trips can interline like every 3 trips or just 3 can interline to watch performance to see if its possible. I admire all of you I actually dont have a love affair with salem I am simply a voice from the combined opinions of others plus there is no way in hell service within salem itself will survive but passing through salem en rte to a major destination like accidental service. Like oops you can use it too kind of service. For example 559 has most of its ridership in the pleasantville area and toms river area but in between it has no median so oops hay rte 9 peeps ur in my way hop on the bus. Accidental passthrough service is what the 559 is. So is the 317 but to an extreme extent. I dont like the 317 length however its purpose is the combined form of several rural bus rtes merged into one line. Here however My ideas are less extreme. Actually beacause 317 is so long it needs a faster variant or modding certain rtes like 417 and 419 to express variants not directly. Lets say you want to reach monmouth from philly without a 4 to 3 hour bus ride what if you took light rail for 30 mins then used a bus that takes less than 1 hour and well 20 mins thats way faster. How about a rte that is 1 hour shorter. Standalone they will fail but as a rte with multiple purposes constantly filling up and empting then refilling well. That was why the 60 and some old rtes had potential however in order for a park and ride rte thats non NYC based to win in NJ it needs the supporting cast. My plan is called collaborate. I make rtes work together to take lines that bythemselves would usually have low ridership but however gain ridership from several different peeps from different angles. Now they have high ridership cause they are multipurpose the rte itself has no one ability it has legs and helpers that meet it is lent strength from others that support the rte itself. The rte is a mixture of ppl going to different places not just one place alone. Like the 60 GSP express to newark airport from tomsriver via park and rides what if at these park and rides they were rtes that timed too link then the ridership isnt entirely composed of one group but several. Lets say a rte links with 4 rtes and 5 along the way getting like 5 ppl from each connection then it multiplies when line goes on highway. My plan is rtes work together for unity to meet uncommon travel needs indirectly. Thank you very much for ur opinions peeps and soon I will gain full understanding. I gather info from city-data as well.

[553 Bridgeton]

Yes I have done the 401. 67peeps between Woodbury & Phila and 98% of the peeps got off in Woodbury and no one was picked up after that. The other 2 peeps got off in Woodstown @US40 & Route 45 and I was a loaner until Salem. I did say that however it doesnt warrent the service what I said was based off what those 2 peeps were saying who got off in Woodstown. What your trying to do is send NJT to Wilmington which is out right stupid. On random days the 401 can get crowded below Woodbury but it still doesnt warrent added service. The ppl dont ride it enough for NJT to even consider a service boost. The main riders below Woodbury are the 10ppl who work in Philly. Other then the rest of the riders are random people who missed a ride to get somewhere or for a day out in Philly. The trip I did back to Philly I didnt pick up a soul until Woodbury and then I picked up 40 peeps going to Camden Philly and I dhed back to Egg Harbor. I did that as a fill in due to a break down. The 423 was axed due to Low Ridership no one would ride it and this is coming from a driver I chatted with who works on the 468. Salem County transit is going to be the last place to get NABIs. If they had more ridership they would have got the 5 or 6 NABIs to replace those Novas.

 

NJT does not belong in Wilmington its a waste of money. The ppl that live in Delaware and go to AC they drive or charter a bus from "Delaware Express" who gets great business. The 468 can get crowded at times but other then that the only thing thats saving it is Salem County Transit. Most of what I said about that area before was based off of what those peeps said. And actually the casino in Chester PA is quicker to get to then AC.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yes I have done the 401. 67peeps between Woodbury & Phila and 98% of the peeps got off in Woodbury and no one was picked up after that. The other 2 peeps got off in Woodstown @US40 & Route 45 and I was a loaner until Salem. I did say that however it doesnt warrent the service what I said was based off what those 2 peeps were saying who got off in Woodstown. What your trying to do is send NJT to Wilmington which is out right stupid. On random days the 401 can get crowded below Woodbury but it still doesnt warrent added service. The ppl dont ride it enough for NJT to even consider a service boost. The main riders below Woodbury are the 10ppl who work in Philly. Other then the rest of the riders are random people who missed a ride to get somewhere or for a day out in Philly. The trip I did back to Philly I didnt pick up a soul until Woodbury and then I picked up 40 peeps going to Camden Philly and I dhed back to Egg Harbor. I did that as a fill in due to a break down. The 423 was axed due to Low Ridership no one would ride it and this is coming from a driver I chatted with who works on the 468. Salem County transit is going to be the last place to get NABIs. If they had more ridership they would have got the 5 or 6 NABIs to replace those Novas.

 

NJT does not belong in Wilmington its a waste of money. The ppl that live in Delaware and go to AC they drive or charter a bus from "Delaware Express" who gets great business. The 468 can get crowded at times but other then that the only thing thats saving it is Salem County Transit. Most of what I said about that area before was based off of what those peeps said. And actually the casino in Chester PA is quicker to get to then AC.

 

Hehe ur good you almost cought on but I am not creating more service for 401 that isnt the problem I was referring to east west travel actually and a link to chester indirectly to tell you the truth I dont create new rtes from thin air ya know I make rtes out of existing ones. The hint is its not about the area on its own but multiple peeps from different areas pack on at a single point. Many will split up to other modes. I create lines that work with others otherwise they actually will be nothing. That is why I structure em in a cross formation. Also ur point about philly raises a problem with a part that isnt so easy to access. I want that part to become accessible. My ideas are to create multiple funding sources. Cause they are many hidden functions the rtes I make can serve wilmington is just one of those the thing is its not all about deleware if it was then ur right as that would fail. You have a point about chester PA though and even gave me a new idea about camden's cross style. Its good to know I can keep learning here. Now I know how to make lines. So ur telling me the 402 had midday service years ago??? It actually was an all day rte years ago??? thats news fill me in on what happened.

[553 Bridgeton]

The 402 use to be an allday route. Midday service was axed due to SUPER low ridership.

[qjtransitmaster]

The 402 use to be an allday route. Midday service was axed due to SUPER low ridership.

Interesting??? like hourly or bihourly??? why didnt they just axe 468 instead and let 402 interline with 401??? so 468 riders could use 402 or 401 and that way fewer total buses are there like a rte serving multiple purposes.

 

I had a feeling 402 midday service was non existant for a reason cause when I would secret shop the paulsboro area I would see I-295 completly EMPTY literally I can walk on 295 without getting hit by a car LOL. I would be hard pressed to even see cars on the road. Hence why I was caught completly off guard when I caught a FULL 402 on a saturday!!! I was like WTF!!!! I was expecting 5 ppl but instead there were 20+ peeps on that sucker!!!!

 

 

anyway back to 402 if the ridership was so low why did SJTA create a shuttle to pureland industrial park from camden??? Especially since 402 serves that place the shuttle literally is a short-turn copycat of the 402!!! explain plz as I dont get it. If the service was not needed why create a shuttle???

[553 Bridgeton]

Well idk anything about that shuttle. But the 402 is every 2 or 3hrs on its current schedule and the last bus only goes to Gibbstown.

 

401s cant interline with 402s because alot of 401s are 410s and 400s and 412s. Most of the Salem 401s are those routes

[SirJokaPlaya]

How many buses per hour are used on the 320 line??? during tourist season and off season???

6 Full time Runs, and countless Trippers and Combo pieces, at least maybe 20-30

 

 

OK how frequent should the 755/751 be from hackensack to edgewater commons???

 

You got buses leaving every 45-50 minutes to Edgewater and Visa-Versa. That's fine the way it is.

[qjtransitmaster]

Well idk anything about that shuttle. But the 402 is every 2 or 3hrs on its current schedule and the last bus only goes to Gibbstown.

 

401s cant interline with 402s because alot of 401s are 410s and 400s and 412s. Most of the Salem 401s are those routes

 

I meant interline in salem NOT philly.

 

When the 402 ran allday and had midday service how frequent was it??? Not how frequent it is today. I know 402's frequency now but how frequent was it years ago???? why is 401 interlining with the slow 412???

[qjtransitmaster]

You got buses leaving every 45-50 minutes to Edgewater and Visa-Versa. That's fine the way it is.

that is its combined frequency I meant standalone??? the rtes are 90 mins standalone.

 

Plus my plan streamlines them so segments that duplicate other rtes are eliminated.

[SirJokaPlaya]

that is its combined frequency I meant standalone??? the rtes are 90 mins standalone.

 

Plus my plan streamlines them so segments that duplicate other rtes are eliminated.

 

Ok. Then let's have it. Let's see this GRAND plan that you have. Then let's see how many changes you'll have once you actually get down here and look at what's going on here.

[553 Bridgeton]

I meant interline in salem NOT philly.

 

When the 402 ran allday and had midday service how frequent was it??? Not how frequent it is today. I know 402's frequency now but how frequent was it years ago???? why is 401 interlining with the slow 412???

 

Once again 402s cant interline with 401s PERIOD without disrupting the 400 410 412. The 412 maybe slow but its crowded but one major problem with the 412 is the fact it backtracks in Glassboro.

 

The 402 ran every 2hrs before they axed midday service.

 

Those routes interline because drivers work more then one route in a day depending on how they pick and what they pick. Some routes upon entering philly will turn into another route to meet service when there are traffic problems and late buses.

 

For example: run 12 maybe a 410 Philly then turn into a 401 Woodbury then 401 Philly then a 412 Glassboro.

 

Or run 12 could be a doublebanger on the 400 or a 6 tripper on the 404.

[qjtransitmaster]

Once again 402s cant interline with 401s PERIOD without disrupting the 400 410 412. The 412 maybe slow but its crowded but one major problem with the 412 is the fact it backtracks in Glassboro.

 

The 402 ran every 2hrs before they axed midday service.

 

Those routes interline because drivers work more then one route in a day depending on how they pick and what they pick. Some routes upon entering philly will turn into another route to meet service when there are traffic problems and late buses.

 

For example: run 12 maybe a 410 Philly then turn into a 401 Woodbury then 401 Philly then a 412 Glassboro.

 

Or run 12 could be a doublebanger on the 400 or a 6 tripper on the 404.

every 2 hours on the 402 was that M-F only or 7 days a week bihourly even on weekends???

[qjtransitmaster]

Ok. Then let's have it. Let's see this GRAND plan that you have. Then let's see how many changes you'll have once you actually get down here and look at what's going on here.

 

My completed plan will be available end of summer after my experience with NJT buses are complete. The problem with 751 is it doesn't need to backtrack to north bergen when the 159 and 156 already do that both can be easilly reached from the 751 even if 751 bypassed north bergen. Plus 751 is every 90 mins alone making the segment more meaningless to an extent. But the more I know the more complete my plans become

[553 Bridgeton]

Weekdays it was every 2hrs. Service on weekends was basically nonexistent. The current weekend sch is how it was.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ok. Then let's have it. Let's see this GRAND plan that you have. Then let's see how many changes you'll have once you actually get down here and look at what's going on here.

 

Most of my plans that I completed in NJ were based off of past experiences with many rtes throughout the state. Even shuttles. My ideas are mostly large rtes devouring smaller ones. 800 rtes with exceptions becoming segments of other rtes to make more direct lines. The same applies to 700 series at a lesser extent. The atlantic city rtes get their segments streamlined to make more direct rtes and eliminate backtracking. I had a previous plan but had to make several changes to it cause of problems earlier with rte alignments and speed. Also duplicates like 409 and 419 get rerouted to avoid duplicating riverline completely. All the cuts I make are offset by new rtes. I have compiled a list of rtes to review further.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Most of my plans that I completed in NJ were based off of past experiences with many rtes throughout the state. Even shuttles. My ideas are mostly large rtes devouring smaller ones. 800 rtes with exceptions becoming segments of other rtes to make more direct lines. The same applies to 700 series at a lesser extent. The atlantic city rtes get their segments streamlined to make more direct rtes and eliminate backtracking. I had a previous plan but had to make several changes to it cause of problems earlier with rte alignments and speed. Also duplicates like 409 and 419 get rerouted to avoid duplicating riverline completely. All the cuts I make are offset by new rtes. I have compiled a list of rtes to review further.

 

Bro, let me tell you something. No matter what you do, what you think of, what you conceive, it's not going to matter. It's not because of what you're thinking of. Hell, I can make a plan. 553, Pablo, B35, the guy from Taco Bell, the clerk from 7-Eleven, and the local hooker in Jersey City can make a plan. But here's the problem. It all depends on one thing and one thing only: THE PEOPLE!

 

Let me give you some prime examples:

 

125 - Service was cut twice in the last 18 months due to low ridership between NYC to Journal Square.

181 - Service in the midday was cut in the middle of 2008 due to low ridership.

85 - Service in the midday on Weekends was added due to Excessive ridership

320 - Service is being added for the summer for excessive ridership, and I'll go out on a limb and bet that after the summer pick, the hours will remain.

 

The point is ridership, no matter what you do, will always depends on how many people actually take the buses. At any given moment, NJT can cut any line or add lines due to the amount of people that takes that bus and the demand for that line. I can tell you personally that no one likes taking the 89 from Park avenue to the HBLR station on bergenline to get to Newport Mall. People missed the 86 that was a one shot delivery. But, yet, if there was a demand for that service to return, NJT would consider bring it back. It's not a issue of Why have excessive buses traveling one street. If that was the case, Bergenline wouldn't have the 22, 84, 89, 156, 159, 181, and a portion of the 188 serving the area.

 

As for your issue about the 751 not being in North Bergen, I'd like to invite you to a little bus stop area called Nunguessers. And I'd like for you to be in that area between the hours of ANYTIME on ANYDAY on ANY WEEK, ANY MONTH, ANY YEAR. You have the ultimate combination of bus lines: 22, 23, 84, 88, 89, 128, 154, 156, 159, 165, 166, 168, 181, and 751. Do you even have any idea how many people is at that area at any given day, even holidays? The 166 alone carries 40 people at that stop getting to Tenafly. The 165 and 168 takes people to Hackensack. People literately take the 181, 84, 88, 89, 154, 156, 159 or the 181 to JUST connect to the 166, 168, 165, or the 751, just so people can go to work and other locations. The 751 has a bus stop in North Bergen, right at the Bergenline/91st Street Entrance to North Hudson Park. That stop can drop off 20 to 30 people, especially if they're waiting for the 159. That 751 is a back up, just so people can make it to work and other places. So, please, don't say the 751, or any other part of that stretch in North Bergen is not needed. Because I can go ahead and tell about 1100 - 1200 people daily that and they will send you lovely e-mails, letters, notes, and pictures telling you otherwise with messages that might not be Merry Christmas. I lived in that area personally for 4 years. I know what that area needs. In a way, and this might make me sound bad but here me out, the Dollar Vans, shitty as they are, actually are a blessing at times. Because if they weren't there on Bergenline, man---------you wanna talk about a mass of humanity. When there was a crackdown on Minivans, Every 84 was packed. Every 159 was jammed, Every 89 was a sardine can. Every 22 was tighter than a weave. Pablo can tell you that before the minivans came in, there were 84's every 2 to 5 minutes I believe. That area of Bergenline ave is a madhouse.

[qjtransitmaster]

Bro, let me tell you something. No matter what you do, what you think of, what you conceive, it's not going to matter. It's not because of what you're thinking of. Hell, I can make a plan. 553, Pablo, B35, the guy from Taco Bell, the clerk from 7-Eleven, and the local hooker in Jersey City can make a plan. But here's the problem. It all depends on one thing and one thing only: THE PEOPLE!

 

Let me give you some prime examples:

 

125 - Service was cut twice in the last 18 months due to low ridership between NYC to Journal Square.

181 - Service in the midday was cut in the middle of 2008 due to low ridership.

85 - Service in the midday on Weekends was added due to Excessive ridership

320 - Service is being added for the summer for excessive ridership, and I'll go out on a limb and bet that after the summer pick, the hours will remain.

 

The point is ridership, no matter what you do, will always depends on how many people actually take the buses. At any given moment, NJT can cut any line or add lines due to the amount of people that takes that bus and the demand for that line. I can tell you personally that no one likes taking the 89 from Park avenue to the HBLR station on bergenline to get to Newport Mall. People missed the 86 that was a one shot delivery. But, yet, if there was a demand for that service to return, NJT would consider bring it back. It's not a issue of Why have excessive buses traveling one street. If that was the case, Bergenline wouldn't have the 22, 84, 89, 156, 159, 181, and a portion of the 188 serving the area.

 

As for your issue about the 751 not being in North Bergen, I'd like to invite you to a little bus stop area called Nunguessers. And I'd like for you to be in that area between the hours of ANYTIME on ANYDAY on ANY WEEK, ANY MONTH, ANY YEAR. You have the ultimate combination of bus lines: 22, 23, 84, 88, 89, 128, 154, 156, 159, 165, 166, 168, 181, and 751. Do you even have any idea how many people is at that area at any given day, even holidays? The 166 alone carries 40 people at that stop getting to Tenafly. The 165 and 168 takes people to Hackensack. People literately take the 181, 84, 88, 89, 154, 156, 159 or the 181 to JUST connect to the 166, 168, 165, or the 751, just so people can go to work and other locations. The 751 has a bus stop in North Bergen, right at the Bergenline/91st Street Entrance to North Hudson Park. That stop can drop off 20 to 30 people, especially if they're waiting for the 159. That 751 is a back up, just so people can make it to work and other places. So, please, don't say the 751, or any other part of that stretch in North Bergen is not needed. Because I can go ahead and tell about 1100 - 1200 people daily that and they will send you lovely e-mails, letters, notes, and pictures telling you otherwise with messages that might not be Merry Christmas. I lived in that area personally for 4 years. I know what that area needs. In a way, and this might make me sound bad but here me out, the Dollar Vans, shitty as they are, actually are a blessing at times. Because if they weren't there on Bergenline, man---------you wanna talk about a mass of humanity. When there was a crackdown on Minivans, Every 84 was packed. Every 159 was jammed, Every 89 was a sardine can. Every 22 was tighter than a weave. Pablo can tell you that before the minivans came in, there were 84's every 2 to 5 minutes I believe. That area of Bergenline ave is a madhouse.

ok is the 751 on time???? cause I see other rtes that can do that segment better to an extent. true north bergen is a major transfer point however the rte 751 uses to get there can be time consuming. I have been watching ridership and travel patterns of ppl all over NJ. Also some lines effectively took cars off the road that I what I go after. New riders rather than current.

 

 

Does the 13 need a gobus version??? Looks like 85 and 320 are doing exactly what I have predicted a while back now certain conditions have been met they are perfect for phase 2 and 3 of the restructuring.

[B35 via Church]

SJT layeth down the law once again !!

 

Nunguessers (how do you pronounce that btw) is no joke.... I haven't take an NJT yet that passed that area where there weren't a bazillion pax waiting about the area.... I can't even compare that to anything in NYC (bus-wise); Jamaica Center's prolly the closest....

 

 

...and what's this about the 13 needing a gobus

[DaTransitMan4608]

B35 is right. Nunguessers is really busy. I haven't been to it either, but from what I see on the NJ Transit website, Quite a few lines stop there. I can only imagine what that place must look like at rush hour. A 2 year-old with s**t in their pants wouldn't say tht Nunguessers isn't busy.

 

Gobus for the 13. Ain't gonna happen. Newark already had 2 Gobus lines they don't need another one. They just need to make a 13X instead if its too busy, along with the 85 and 320(unless there already is a 320X)

[qjtransitmaster]

B35 is right. Nunguessers is really busy. I haven't been to it either, but from what I see on the NJ Transit website, Quite a few lines stop there. I can only imagine what that place must look like at rush hour. A 2 year-old with s**t in their pants wouldn't say tht Nunguessers isn't busy.

 

Gobus for the 13. Ain't gonna happen. Newark already had 2 Gobus lines they don't need another one. They just need to make a 13X instead if its too busy, along with the 85 and 320(unless there already is a 320X)

 

there already is an 320X so How will the 13X work??? should it get an X variant cause ppl have told me its SLOW. So I am just wondering.

 

 

I am aware how busy north bergen is however a bus running every 90 mins through there hardly makes sense. The 13 is a sardine can to the extreme. Plus the many bergenline ave lines already connect with the 751 while having super frequency that's every 15 mins or more frequent. Even 154 links to it. However a bus going every 90 mins is wrong. So take selected 84 or 88 trips and extend them to edgewater commons. Allowing the 751 to take a more direct rte to hackensack. The thing with the line is that the lines there mostly pass through there. I never said north bergen wasn't busy I said the rte 751 has to take to reach it adds unnessesary travel time. This was a speed issue not a ridership one. I try to make lines fast enough to appeal to mainstream riders. However many regional lines already have huge mainstream ridership with many folks who already drive yet still use NJT. Hence why I only see opportunity for new rtes in south(converting local line into long distance one) and Northern( via restoration and restructuring of old rtes)

[Mikan Wilhelm]

13 express seems like a good idea then again that would only happen if its necessary and as it looks right now it ain't happening

[qjtransitmaster]

13 express seems like a good idea then again that would only happen if its necessary and as it looks right now it ain't happening

 

Is the 13 reliable?? how late is it?? or its on-time performance??:cool:

 

on-time performance of 52,58 and 26 lines???

 

My plan isn't complete and can't regionalize rtes that are always late.:cool:

 

Plus the real part relies on transfer points for the regional rtes to catch on. Like metropark train station. Cause alone the damand wont be enough to keep the extensions so rtes like the 60 would have made the plan easier to implement. Having the rtes feed each other thus letting a rte with otherwise low demand become high demand since its constantly being fed more and more passengers from each line that links with it.

[Mikan Wilhelm]

Is the 13 reliable?? how late is it?? or its on-time performance??:cool:

 

on-time performance of 52,58 and 26 lines???

 

My plan isn't complete and can't regionalize rtes that are always late.:cool:

 

Plus the real part relies on transfer points for the regional rtes to catch on. Like metropark train station. Cause alone the damand wont be enough to keep the extensions so rtes like the 60 would have made the plan easier to implement. Having the rtes feed each other thus letting a rte with otherwise low demand become high demand since its constantly being fed more and more passengers from each line that links with it.

 

from what i noticed the 13 is usually just a few minutes late at times going to the terminal or to chancellor ave and thats just from me being in those areas

 

and i know thats not much of a help anyway lmao

 

and the 26 like 90% of the time is late on saturdays time varies since it only uses 1 bus i assume

[SirJokaPlaya]

SJT layeth down the law once again !!

 

Nunguessers (how do you pronounce that btw) is no joke.... I haven't take an NJT yet that passed that area where there weren't a bazillion pax waiting about the area.... I can't even compare that to anything in NYC (bus-wise); Jamaica Center's prolly the closest....

 

 

...and what's this about the 13 needing a gobus

 

Nun+Guess+Ers (Pretend you're saying Hers but take the H out) = Nunguessers.

It's dumb too. Don't ask me why......

Yet, it's a County Route in NJ, all .04 miles of it. Yes, 0.04. LOL

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nungessers (Proof)